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AEG: Thoughts on Upgrading


I've reposted the section on AEG upgrading from DumboRAT's Newbie FAQ. I split it up into two sections.
 

***Re-Posted from DumboRAT's Newbie FAQ***

Of course, the possible upgrade paths should be of some concerns as well, but again, as a newbie, this should be the LAST thing on your mind - see below for why…….

Here's what Kenny, aka 888 (or previously, aka Spasman), wrote:
========== begin ====
I'm sure you notice that almost every *newbie* that gets into this sport want to start off with a fully upgraded AEG. Hard not to since this seems to be the big *trend* nowadays. I must admit I too after field playing with guys with maxed out guns, I wanted to have something that would hold up as well. Unfortunately, I went at it the wrong way and tore apart my gun with upgraded parts not knowing exactly what I was doing. Lucky for me, INFERNO helped me out NOT by cleaning up my mess for me, but by walking me through the correct process. So now, I have a better idea of how my internals work, and can troubleshoot minor problems. I have also learned that from the moment you take apart your mechbox, your durability of the gun goes WAY DOWN, even if you don't change anything. The higher the upgrade, the more often you'll end up taking apart your gun to fix whatever.

So, back to the original topic, ANY AEG with ANY upgrade will be prone to failure in a very accelerated time span. So whats a newbie going to do when his first AEG thats been upgraded fails? Most likely panic and asked every Tom, **** and Harry what to do, how to do it, and even more likely post all kinds of troubleshooting questions on the board without even reading first. I have seen firsthand many of my friends who are new to airsoft go through this situation. Many have actually been so "bummed out" that they haven't even given the sport a chance and have given up. Of course you know that even a stock AEG will fail after a given amount of time. However, I think that time span is long enough to give the player more than enough time to really feel out the sport, and will give the player enough experience and information to strip down the gun when it is really needed. I personally think this is the best way in getting every pennys worth out of your small investment in a really big hobby.
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This reminded me to put in a word about "upgrading."

First, I am definitely NOT the man to talk to regarding upgrading your airsoft replicas. I have performed very, very few internal upgrades on AEG's and GBB's. This is definitely NOT my area!

However, I am familiar with simple mechanical systems -- and one of the concepts that everyone should remember is that the more you increase a system's performance, the more you will decrease its overall durability. It's much the same way as with using higher-powered gasses on GBB's. The more you run your machine on the ragged edge, the more likely it is that it will experience failure from being pushed so hard. Inevitably, when you upgrade for performance, you will likely stand to lose a bit of durability.

As a newbie with likely only one AEG, the failure of such an upgraded piece will effectively put you out of the game, with no chance for a quick return. And if you're at a multi-day event for which you've traveled hundreds of miles for, this could indeed spell disaster. As such, having a stock AEG that has a known average durability and liability for failure, rather than having that factor being an "unknown" with an upgraded piece, will surely serve to somewhat settle your heart, not to mention improve your odds of not suffering such breakdowns. Additonally, once you have accumulated other, possibly upgraded AEG's to your growing aresenal, this first-purchase, internally stock AEG will undoubtedly become a trusty "backup" piece, which is always nice to have at hand.

Furthermore, as a newbie, you should really take the time to first allow you to get your heading in the sport prior to plunking down the dough for an expensive upgrade. Unless you play through several game-days with your new stock AEG, you're not going to really have a feel for how well it really performs or have a good idea of *exactly* and *realistically* what an upgraded AEG is capable, or not capable, of doing (here, it's simply best to ask players with upgraded pieces to kindly let you "test" their replica at the range -- this way, you'll get first-hand experience).

Finally, what many newbies do not realize when they first start out is that many clubs, fields, and events impose strict limits with regards to velocity/hit-energy due to safety concerns. If you outright purchase an upgraded AEG that shoots a blistering 450 fps. with 0.25 gram BB's, but all the events that you are interested in attending only allow 350 fps. with 0.20 fps, then you've just wasted a lot of money; as well as caused yourself undue trouble.

For example, at a recent multi-day skirmish, limits of 300 fps. were placed on SMG's and carbine replicas, with 350 being allowed for assault-rifles, and a top end of 385 for single-shot "sniper rifles." All this with 0.25 gram BB's. Imagine showing up for one of these events, after having driven hundreds of miles, with a brand-spanking-new MP5 that cranked out 400 fps. with 0.25 gram BB's, and therefore not being allowed to play -- talk about disappointment!

As such, if you MUST have initial upgrades, check with your local club, field, or look on the various d-board/Forums mentioned above at posts regarding velocity/hit-energy limits that have been set for PAST games/events.

Honestly, I implore you, I *beg* of you to purchase your first AEG in factory-stock form with regards to internals for the above mentioned factors.
 

***My Reaction***

I agree with both DumboRAT and 888 that a stock gun is the way to go for a first timer. Even with the equipment disadvantages that come with playing with a stock gun against upgraded guns, they can hold their own. Besides, having such an equipment disadvantage will force you to become a better player because you will have to make your shots more meaningful. This will give you the upper hand when/if you upgrade.

However, I do have to disagree with 888's statement that "ANY AEG with ANY upgrade will be prone to failure in a very accelerated time span." In my opinion, this is simply not true if the upgrades are done properly(this is actually covered in the next section I re-posted). If someone just replaced gears and bushings, I think that the gun would have a much better *chance* at a longer life span…assuming shimming/greasing etc. was properly done.
 

***Continuation of Newbie Guide Re-post***

But if you're still INTENT on making upgrades, well, here's something to chew on…it's from my friend Wallace, a fellow Airsoft Ohio member:
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I can understand your thinking, and maybe I didn't word my third point precisely. I agree that upgraded internal puts more load on the gearbox, and then with higher capacity battery the increased speed would further stress the gearbox. What I want to convey is that stock internal, contrary to popular believe, is even more likely to sustain damage then upgraded internal.

To further clarify, lets classify gearbox failures in two categories - anticipated and unanticipated. Anticipated failure is normally stress/wear induced, such as worn out teeth, weakened springs, aged motors, etc. These can cause additional damages such as stripped gears if worn parts are not timely replaced. Unanticipated failures refer to unexpected, catastrophic damages, which can be caused by poor workmanship, misalignment, excessive force or out-of-spec impact, etc. The later part can damage a brand-new gearbox, and is generally the most feared.

That being said, upgraded gearbox will increase the chance of anticipated failure (i.e. shorter interval of each failure). As you've already mentioned, stiffer spring and higher speed puts more load and stress on each component of the gearbox, which causes them to worn faster. However, when professionally installed and properly maintained, upgrading the gearbox should NOT increase the possibility of unanticipated failures. All the upgrade components are designed to work together in such high-stressed environment, that although they require more frequent maintenance or replacement, they shouldn't "quit" all-of-a-sudden during skirmish. That's why I think upgraded gearboxes can provide the same durability (or dependability) as stock gearboxes.

A good analogy would be turbo charging your car's engine. We all know that a turbo charger generally shorten the life of your engine as it induces more stress (anticipated failure). However, if not installed properly you could over-boost your engine hence toasting it (unanticipated failure). On the other hand, turbo charging your engine also requires certain prerequisite, such as upgraded exhaust and intake to allow sufficient airflow, and revised engine management or even additional fuel pumps / injectors to maintain proper air/fuel ratio. However, if you simply bolt on a turbo charger to a fully stock engine, without lowering the compression ratio and additional fuel delivery the engine will run too lean and likely overheat, causing catastrophic failure. This is exactly what a higher capacity battery can do to a stock AEG.

When gears are turning too fast, the gearbox can fail not because of rapid worn out, but something far more violent. When the force exerted on piston/gear teeth exceeds their specification, you could actually snap the teeth off the gears by running it too fast. Wear and tear can also cause the same to happen, but they usually appear gradually. Hence upgraded gearbox with stiffer spring can prevent these unanticipated failures by slowing down the gears, or even by replacing stock gear set with hi-torque gears (they are both stronger and cause the piston to draw back slower).

In short, stock internals are more "durable" because of their lesser stress, but not necessary more "forgiving" when excessive force (in this case hi-voltage hi-capacity battery) is applied. I hope it make better sense this time
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Now, Wallace makes a very good point here, but remember - he speaks of proper upgrading versus improper or otherwise sub-optimal upgrading. And unfortunately, as a newbie, your knowledge about the complex inner workings of AEG's, as well as your ability to decipher the varying truths of the many conflicting posts out there on the Forums/d-boards, will enhance your chances of NOT performing acceptably installed upgrades. I am not saying this to belittle newbies, to degrade newbies in any way - I'm simply stating the fact that the relative inexperience of newbies with regard to general knowledge in this area will more than likely cause them harm, and that such problems can indeed be avoided easily by just being content with their new AEG in stock, unmodified, out-of-the-box, OEM format, and giving themselves a bit more time to learn the intricacies of the such replicas before making the jump into tackling the ultra-technical areas.

With that said, you're now probably back to worrying about the durability/reliability of these models again. Once more, I'll remind you that as TM AEG's, they all share approximately the same track records when it comes to these two factors.

***End of Re-Post***


I have to agree with everything in this last section.

The technical aspect that DumboRAT mentions is definitely something to avoid for a while when first getting into airsoft/AEG's. There is a guy here who has sometimes been without an AEG at our games because he tries to do things that are way over his head. I learned everything I know about AEG work form the internet and just plain winging it, but nothing can compare to having an experienced person at your side like 888 mentioned in the first section.

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