Interview with Sheryl Nantus (AKA Sheryl Martin)
by Nicola Simpson
(interviewed October 10-16, 2000)
I’ve known Sheryl since her first post (I think I beat her to ATXC, actually). She has strong opinions and unparalleled XF fic output, and it’s my pleasure to finally sit down and talk officially about fanfic, the writing process, and the tremendous impact her work has had on the community.
When was your first story posted? What was it?
Hmm... the first, I do believe, was "Dragons Of All Sizes" (talk about going for the gusto!). It really, really was intended to be a stand-alone. In fact, I planned it that way after walking the late night shift and speaking the story out loud to the night creatures in my warehouse walk. Really. Of course, it wasn't. Gryn.
How many stories have you written? (God, I hope you've kept count somewhere!)
Oh, God... over 200 plus... I stopped counting and do you count each "Downtime" as one or seven or what.... whatever...
How many awards have you been nominated for? Won?
Hmm... Up and won a bunch of Spookys the first time out, Morleys... I think a few from other sites, but I haven't kept track... really...
When you started writing XF fic in 1995 the community was still in its infancy. How were you introduced to this world, and what compelled you to join it as an author?
I actually tripped across the online community when I "bought" (as in: not paid off yet) a used Mac from an ex-boyfriend in the fall of 1994. I had been watching the show for years, but never realised that there was anything online and fell over the atxc group just before Christmas.
Actually, to be brutally honest I was appalled at the type of stories being offered for reading. Either they were multi-part epics of 25+ pieces and crossing over into every universe including Thundercats, or they were pretty well Mary Sue smut that wasn't even that much fun to read. I really just wanted a couple of fun, quick stories that wouldn't take storyboards to understand and that actually accentuated the relationship between Mulder and Scully.
Didn't find much.
Wrote my own.
'Nuff said.
So it was the relationship between Mulder and Scully that drew you, initially? Were you already a shipper, or did you have to be won over?
I was a shipper before the phrase was coined - in fact, I think I was surprised when I was announced/denounced as a shipper, since I didn't think of myself as that way when I wrote anything other than my mind candy... chuckle...
In 1995, debate between shippers and noromos was heated at times; now it seems a fairly universal consensus that Moose and Squirrel belong together. How were shippers welcomes/not welcomed on the newsgroup when you started?
The Shipper/Noromo debate really influenced fanfic more than people think it did. I think that a lot of the Mary Sues that were writing were Noromos and with romantic smut beginning to be more common on the newsgroup, there were a lot of hurt feelings - a lot of stories began to become very Anti MSR, though we didn't see it up front - most of us just ignored it and kept on writing, which infuriated them to no end.
How have you seen the relationship between shippers/noromos evolving?
I don't think it evolved more than it just became a fact that Mulder/Scully would be together and the Noromos become more along the lines of Skinner/Scully fans and so forth. When you have the relationship more or less acknowledged by the episodes and the movie, there's not much left for them to stand on.
I never really saw my stories outside of the NC-17s as being heavily Shipper-focused, but others did. I considered it just my interpretation of the M/S relationship, which to me meant a deep friendship and certainly the potential of more - which is where the smut came from.
Though I must lay claim to the title of The First Romantic - in my earliest fanfics I used a tag line from Romancing the Stone quoting Joan Wilder -
"You've become a world-class hopeless romantic."
"Not hopeless... hopeful. A world-class hopeful romantic."
And thus it was born... well, at least to my mind... and used by fans evermore...
How have you maintained hope for the DAL (Deep Abiding Love) between Mulder and Scully, particularly at times when the show seemed determined not to acknowledge it, or even deter it (i.e. The Rift and Diana Fowley)? Do you think that you approach MSR differently as a fanfic reader than you do as an XF watcher? Are your expectations different of each medium?
I’ve always had hope for it because I believe in True Love (or twu luv for the disdainful among us). I figured that the Rift and Fowley were just speedbumps in the eventual romance because that was the only way it could be. Period. Kinda like when you know that everything will work out right in the end because that's the way it has to be. Trust me, as a cancer survivor, that's the only way to look at things.
I don't see MSR in a different way in the fanfic form because with the exception of the NC-17 stories I've written, I've stayed in canon with the show for the entire five years I've been writing - with the result that some will find glaring errors in earlier stories where I just didn't have the backstory (or CC changed it, more likely...)
I can't get into reading AU or anything other than what fits in with my version of the show, which is the way I am. Not that there's not GREAT writing in the other mediums or that canon is the only way to go, but that's my way. Shrug.
Does it change? Sure, for everyone. Some people believe they've been shagging from the "Pilot", some from "All Things," some from the movie. Some never. (Pity them!) But for fanfic to be a realistic reflection of the show, it has to appeal to everyone and all aspects of it - just as there is no one True Reality on the show, you can't have just one True Version of fanfic.
But I'm still a Hopeless Romantic.
Ah, but you've already worked largely outside of the canon of the show by creating Jackie St. George. Can you tell us how she came into existence, and how you went about not only building this original character, but also how you worked to fit her into the canon?
Well, Jackie came about with one simple purpose - to be a good friend to both M&S and NOT be competition in the romance game. At the time I started developing her the trends was for Mary Sue to save Mulder and thus cut Scully out of the loop or some such drivel like that, and I saw a gap that needed to be filled - by someone who would support any romance that existed and realised their special relationship while offering her own perspective on it. Making her Canadian was a gimmie - and CSIS was the closest I could get to finding an equivelent agency for her to be interacting with M&S so often without major plot problems - not that they didn't come up, but at least it stalled them for a bit.
How do you re-create Mulder and Scully to work in tandem with Jackie? Or do you have to re-create them at all?
I didn't have to - Mulder and Scully (at the time I started writing) had that annoying gap in which someone like St. George fit just fine - a friend for both of them who wasn't threatening and helpful in her own way. As the stories went along and I tried to stay within the canon CC had dictated, so she evolved to be both their best friends and annoyances galore when she felt they needed a smack outside the head.
Writing within the canon was the hardest thing possible - I actually try to keep continuity, unlike CC -and it's a bastard to try and keep second guessing yourself and keeping things stable when you really don't know what's going to happen next week/next month. The characters lent themselves to having St. George around, at least at that time in the series. Right now, I doubt I could insert Jackie anywhere other than making sushi outta Doggett without much sweat.
Do you think that sticking to the canon has ever held you back in your writing? Do you envy other authors for being able to screw with the canon?
Oh, do I... Sticking to the canon has made writing a horrific experience, especially the last few years. Although it wasn't hard at first to play CC's game, it's become harder and harder as the continuity and the characters have suffered (IMO) on the show and that translates into harder and harder stories to write and tell.
Do you think that's why many (if not most) fanfic authors avoid writing within the canon? What are the special problems that you've encountered?
Oh, God… Writing in canon sucks horribly because you tend to hold yourself to a higher standard than CC does - which inevitably ends up giving you a migraine as you attempt to make sense out of something that CC and Co. blissfully ignores. I've tried to make sense out of the mytharc; tried to reason away a lot of the problems but it's horribly hard, rather like trying to ignore that huge pimple that appeared on your nose overnight. It really makes writing that much harder when you can't do exactly what you want, like kill off the LG or have Skinner grow hair...
There are several conventions that have become part of fanfic canon–the strawberry shampoo, the Friday night Chinese take-out and video rental, the connecting motel rooms...and Jackie St. George. How do you feel about being part of fanfic canon?
Well, if it's true then I love it... gryn... Seriously, it's great that Jackie's become a bit of fanfic history and great that people still remember her. Hopefully they will for a wee bit longer.
Oh come on, Sheryl, you can be more verbose than *that*! How have you seen fanfic canon develop, and why do you think it happens? Is it simply more "textual poaching" or something else?
Fanfic canon developed because something hit a main nerve and resonated with the fanfic audience - the Chinese food is a big one because everyone relates to having takeout and enjoys the idea of Mulder with chopsticks; dropping noodles everywhere. We love to read about Scully's shampoo smell because we want to think that even she has a few minutes of luxury in the shower when the world can just damn well wait. Jackie St. George hit a common nerve of a gutsy cool woman who just called it as she saw it, and wasn't afraid of anyone or anything. Fanfic canon is a good thing because it illustrates that a common thread exists among all of us, no matter what age, sex, lifestyle or location we happen to be.
Was Jackie ever a Mary Sue? Or did she take over your brain from the very beginning? Did you ever get the feeling that readers thought she was a Mary Sue character?
You know, I NEVER thought of her being a Mary Sue - considering the closest I get to being nasty is tearing off the mattress tag. (It's a Canadian Thing, eh?)
What, you mean you don’t have superpowers? Darn.
Actually, it's hockey and poutine - but don't tell anyone...
I like to think that most readers never saw her as a Mary Sue because she wasn't hot for Mulder OR Scully and just traipsed around the scenery - maybe a Mary Sue in acting as the Shakespearan Chorus and echoing what I thought the fans wanted to say, but not in the general sense of the "I wanna be in the show and I wanna bag DD but I can't so I'll have this woman do it and it'll be FANTASTIC, doncha know?"
Isn't that what all fanfic is--an extension of what we the fans want to say and see on the show?
Certainly - but there comes a point where you have to decide is the story about YOU (as a Mary Sue) or about the X-Files? Many authors decide to make their character the focus and only include M&S as supporting characters. That's always been my biggest problem with St. George - keeping her as a secondary character when she begs to be in the limelight more than she is.
Why not let her run loose then and start chewing up the scenery? Do you feel you're cheating Mulder and Scully if you let that happen?
Oh, most certainly - I've made a point of making sure that the story is ABOUT Mulder and Scully with sidekick St. George, not the other way around. I hate stories that seem to only serve as a display model for original characters - if you want to do that, then write a novel - not attempt to do fanfiction with M&S only showing up as "Very Special Guest Stars".
How do you feel about Jackie being written by other authors (with your permission, of course)?
Darned flattered - as long as they ask permission!
There was an unfortunate incident a few years ago when I tripped over a Babylon 5/XF crossover that started off with Jackie being a Ranger - and NO permission. The disclaimer stated flatly that the author didn't bother to even TRY to contact me, since he was sure I wouldn't mind.
I did.
One fast e-mail later and he pulled the story from all the archives along with a long apology.
I hate laziness. One short email and I would have given permission gladly.
But I think it's pretty lame to assume anything, especially in fanfic.
Do you feel that overall the authors that have used St. George have nailed her character, or are their portrayals of her off in some way?
Surprisingly enough, most everyone's done a wonderful job of getting her right - I don't know if that's because she's so likable and everyone can imagine what she'd say or do or because of my writing. I tend to think it's because she's rather cool and you can pretty well guess what she'd say and do in most any circumstance...
Go to Part Two for Sheryl’s comments on etiquette in the fanfic community, the problems with beta readers, and her own UFO sighting!