Ray Cappo. Singer. Songwriter. Philosopher. Passionate individual to some, silly opportunist to others. Love him or hate him - from his revitalization of the Straight Edge movement in the late eighties with his partner Porcell in Youth Of Today (who of course spawned about a thousand other bands and all that), to his virtually single-handed infusion of spiritual discussion and Hare Krishna beliefs into the scene in the '90s with Shelter - his impact on both the punk and hardcore scenes is undeniable. After years of preaching as an initiated Vaishnava priest under the name Ragunatha das, Cappo has re-emerged in Better Than A Thousand with bleached hair, wristbands and hooded sweat shirt. With notable contemporary hardcore personalities included in the line up, Better Than A Thousand's one-off LP for Revelation, the monolithic label Cappo of course co-founded, is full of the same thrashy core that made Ray semi-famous back in the day. Ironically, the record was released only a few weeks before Beyond Planet Earth, Shelter's most blatantly commercial record for Roadrunner, a label known best for bands like Sepultura, Type O Negative and Fear Factory. With songs ranging from YOT styled core, melodic pop punk, White Zombie style industrial tinged cock rock (one of the guys from that band plays a few solos!), a "hidden" electronic remix and even a ska song, Beyond Planet Earth, though ridiculously contrived, is full of expertly crafted and uplifting songs that grow on the listener with each successive spin of the colorfully (and cheesily) packaged disc.

The paradoxical essence of Shelter's latest release mirrors Cappo's image almost perfectly - plotting yet sincere; passionate yet jaded; thoughtful yet defensive... You get the picture.

I first met Ray in '93 in the middle of the Shelter/108 tour. At that time, I conducted a highly explosive and confrontational interview with him regarding Krishna philosophy and its stances on women, animals and the authority of gurus. We bickered for over an hour on tape in front of a large crowd, until he stormed off to his van in disgust. Months later, we apologized to one another by letter and began a much more mature dialogue on those same issues. We've kept loosely in touch ever since.

It is important to understand that, despite his apparent faults (as if we all don't have them), Ray Cappo is a highly focused individual (he does have a spoken word CD dealing with self-motivation and goal setting on the way) with an agenda that has always included the betterment of himself and his fellow man. With so many kids watching his every move - whether to see him fail or to watch him succeed - he's obviously doing something right.

Youth Of Today is long over and the time when every kid in the scene wore tulasi beads and called each other "Prabhu", like every fad, has passed, but as Cappo says on the Better Than A Thousand disc, "When seasons change...", he'll stay the same. The music (and the clothes and the hair...but who's doesn't?) may sound different, but, in all probability, the guy's heart is unwavering.

"Break Down The Walls", indeed.

Why do Better Than A Thousand? Obviously it is far more hardcore oriented than Shelter has been as of late, but with Shelter still going strong, why not just make that band more hardcore?

I think when I started Shelter one of the unwritten laws was "I'm not going to follow any particular music style." I'm just gonna write whatever music I want to write. I thought that was sort of like a nice pattern to follow and it is still like that. The new Shelter record has songs that I think are the most incredible hardcore songs I've ever written. There are also songs that are like rock songs, pop songs or emotional songs or sad songs. You know what I mean? So it's like Shelter is just like a free for all. I just write music. And with Better Than A Thousand, it was actually Ken and Graham's idea to do a hardcore band and I was sort of like interested in doing a full on hardcore band. So I just sang on it and now it became a record and we're starting to play some shows.

What's the extent of how serious its going to be?

Well it can only get so serious because Ken is full time in two other bands and Graham and I are in Shelter and that's a full time band so we're doing it as a side project, but... You know, with in this music scene, side projects also mean a lot. For me, for example, in a lot of ways they are sort of a piece of your mind inscripted into a compact disc so you get remembered, you know, forever. (Laughs) You know?

Hopefully.

Yeah, hopefully. Within the universe, be that universe very small or big, there's always people out there that really appreciate it. That's another reason why I like music in general, because it is a way to almost like preserve your thoughts in like a yearbook of your life almost. Give back something to the world.

Why not include Porcell in the project?

You know what, because I didn't start the music of it. Those guys did. I didn't write the music.

Did they have stuff recorded already before you got involved?

I didn't write the music at all.

At the end of the CD it sounds like your voice is getting hoarse. Did you guys just sort of bash it out in a day or two?

We really bashed it out in a day or two. Yeah. And that was the fun of it also, because with Shelter, we just got out of the studio, we were in the studio for three months. There's something actually that I really love about taking a lot of time in the studio, it's almost like painting a painting. Really working on each layer of a painting. There's something great about it, there's also something a little disgusting about it, too.

You definitely can pick up on that raw energy on the Better Than A Thousand record.

Yeah, Yeah. I think there's something to be said about that, too. Someone might criticize it "Oh, it doesn't sound professional" but there's something about some pure energy coming out, you know?

I hope that no one says that its not professional enough because...

Yeah, whatever. I think they all missed the point and that's why. At the same time, I don't think a huge, beautiful production means anything unless there's that energy also. I think it is ultimately the best when you can get the best of both worlds. But it was nice to do that record like that, went in there for a weekend and did a record and there, you have a record. Its done. Its like a piece of history now.

Your voice sounds a lot deeper now. Its been two years since I talked to you in person...

Yeah? Maybe it is. Maybe I "grew up".

What's going on with the YOT reissues?

Slowly but surely.

What's that going to be, both albums and maybe a third CD?

Maybe a greatest hits, I'm not quite sure. Although- (away from the phone) Hey Jordan! Are we doing a box set for Youth Of Today? Jordan? Is that a yes to me someone else? I've got a really good idea I'll tell you in a second. (Back to interview) Yeah, we're doing a box set of stuff with added... We've got this one CD. 'Cause on the new Shelter CD, we use a Youth Of Today sample. To get samples, we had to call the old studio that recorded "Break Down The Walls". And we're going to make a CD in the box set that includes that. It is so funny, its all like (starts screaming and panting loudly, gasping for breath in between).

With back-up vocals too?

No back up vocals. I don't think the back up vocals are, just the lead vocals. No, actually the back up vocals are in there, too. (Starts panting again).

What about studio chatter, do we get any of that?

Studio chatter, clamor, I don't know. Anyway, we're just doing the whole thing to completely entertain. People who buy box sets are usually big fans anyway, so I think they'll appreciate it.

It sounds like it is still somewhat up in the air.

Its getting a little up in the air, unfortunately (laughs).

Is anyone writing liner notes?

Ummm... You know, Jordan from Revelation is handling the whole thing. Probably find some like dude that was really into it to write liner notes.

So you're just going to wait around and check it out when it comes out?

Yeah (laughs).

What do you say to - this is a criticism I can predict happening...

You're predicting it by leading it off yourself. Stirring it. (Laughs).

Hey now, I still like to do interesting interviews.

Whatever.

What do you say to people who would see Better Than A Thousand and YOT reissues as cashing in on the current hardcore revival in the scene? With bands like Battery, Ten Yard Fight... People will probably say "Oh, Ray is just trying to get into this hardcore revival."

What do you mean, "get into it"? I'm frickin', I am hardcore revival, you know what I mean? I'm not trying to get into it. I don't got to prove anything to anybody, you know what I mean?

Who all is in Shelter now?

I'm not trying to kiss Ten Yard Fight's ass! What do you think? "Yeah, I want these frickin' guys in Ten Yard Fight to like me, so I'll make a frickin' hardcore record". You know?

Right. So there's definitely no "cashing in" going on?

Oh yeah, you really "cash in". You've been around long enough to learn that you can't really cash in on hardcore. You know, if I want to cash in I'll frickin'... Become a... You know, I wouldn't be in a frickin' band. You know? All my brothers are like engineers and professionals. If I wanted to cash in I think I would have become a professional a long time ago.

Who all is in Shelter now?

Franklin, Porcell and me and... Actually, we've got Graham who is in Better Than A Thousand playing second guitar. He was the first guitar player for Shelter.

Who's playing drums?

We got a new drummer, we're always on a rotating drummer program. Get sick of 'em, throw 'em out, get a new one, get sick of 'em, throw 'em out. I change drummers more than I change clothing.

What happened with Mackie, was that more of a touring situation?

Yeah, Mackie is never really in any band, even the The Cro-Mags. He's always like the hired drummer, he's one of those. He's like the hired gun. Nice guy, cool, got along but... I'm trying to get someone who's going to be like IN the band, you know what I mean? That's what we're working towards.

This new guy, do you think he's going to be the guy?

Who knows, you never know, in the material world everything falls apart.

As far as the cashing in thing, when I first heard the Better Than A Thousand record I thought to myself "you know, if this was anybody else, this would be cashing in" but like you sort of said, you pioneered that sound you would be cashing in on. But Ray, you have to be ready to hear that. I mean seriously.

I actually wasn't. I was just, what do you call it, I was just doing... I wasn't even thinking about that at all. I wasn't thinking that you would say that because I wasn't thinking that in my mind, I was just thinking "let's make a big, cool hardcore record." You know, it's not like I don't like hardcore anymore.

But "the kids", you know, they like to be negative and they tend to be skeptical.

You know what? I never frickin' worried about what the kids said. If I did that I would have frickin' been a little frickin' twerp in my bedroom and just stayed there my whole life.

Shelter did a couple of shows with No Doubt a while back.

Yeah. It was great.

So you did that and you guys are going out with Voodoo Glow Skulls and Goldfinger?

Yep.

What do you think about doing these bigger, more pop oriented tours?

What, the Voodoo Glow Skulls? That's a pop tour?

Well, ...No Doubt.

It's different. No Doubt are completely cool, so... Its so funny, its like they're cool when no one likes them and when everyone likes them, they're not cool anymore. I tell you, people change so much according to social mores, its actually pathetic, you know what I mean? A good person is not a good person anymore if millions of people like them? Its such a foolish way to live you life. I think people are always constantly worried about things like that. They themselves just become... They're not even real people anymore. They're just mirrors of whoever they walk around. So, um, did I like the shows? Yeah, I had a great time at those shows. The kids were really into it, I was really into it. There's nothing better than playing in front of a bunch of people that have never heard of you and winning them over and influencing them in a good way.

I read a review in a 'zine of the Dynamo Festival you guys did in Europe...

There were 70,000 people.

They were saying that it was muddy and rained all day during all of the bands but when Shelter came out, the sun shined and the clouds parted for the only time of the day.

When we got on, the rained stopped, when we got off, it poured. Its very cool. I said "this bands about life, its not about death". We played after something like Celtic Frost or something (laughs).

God has a habit of letting people know what's going on. I also read that it rained particularly hard during Slayer.

Yeah, it was actually amazing. My girlfriend's band, the same thing happened with her band, she played this festival in South Carolina with all these, whatever, regular bands, you know? And they got on stage, they played, they said "thank you very much, we're Baby Gopal". As soon as she got off the stage and this other guy got on, he goes "hi, we're..." whatever, a tornado started! (Laughs). Everyone was running for cover!

Baby Gopal, that's your wife, right?

Yeah. Well, she's not my wife, we never got married. Everybody calls her that, but...

I remember on the Shelter/ 108 tour in '93 you guys...

Yeah, that's when I first met her.

Congratulations.

For having a girlfriend? Yeah, me and about fifteen billion other people have them (laughs).

Come on now. I don't think you like me anymore.

(Laughs) No, I'm just being a smart aleck.

It must be that revelation atmosphere, all those guys are smart alecks. You've been sitting over there too long.

(Laughs).

Let's talk about Civilization, the shoe company.

Yeah, you know, I was working on doing it with this one guy and then I wasn't really happy with his company, so I pulled out of it. And now, I'm feeling around for some other people, but because of Shelter I've been sort of neglecting it. Its something I'm doing in the periphery but it's not my main focus so I can't attack it as much as I'd like to. But its still in my dream list.

I first saw something about that in that Spin article about Krishna conscious hardcore a while back. What did you think about that article and how everything was represented?

Let me think. I think it was pretty good. Give me two more quick questions. I've got this guy giving me the finger. The wrap it up finger, not the other finger.

The Supersoul imprint that you're doing for Roadrunner, what sets that apart from Shelter and VOD just being on Roadrunner?

Its just and imprint, sort of like a mask. There's not necessarily any substance behind it, its just an imprint of Ray Cappo's choicest bands.

For the last couple of years you have seemed to be a man with a plan. Are things moving along as you would like them to?

Yeah. Definitely.

If you had to do it over again, anything you may have done differently so far?

Ummm... You know, I can't... I believe even like a disaster is a stepping stone, you know? No, I wouldn't change anything. I try to live everyday like its the last. I try to keep a healthy balance of the spiritual, physical and material. I definitely believe in goal setting and plan making but ultimately being detached if plans completely shift (laughs), you know what I mean? As long as you've got that balance.

Last question. Somebody came up to me last summer because they knew I had some contact with you and they said "hey, is this true?! I heard Ray Cappo is not Krishna anymore and he's doing a band with Ken Olden?"

The band idea was Ken Olden's. If they said something like that they've obviously never understood a word I've ever said. Because I'm not a monk anymore, I'm not a devotee of Krishna? They have the wrong conception. They think the whole thing is putting on a costume. For example, if you take the Son of Sam and put him in a robe and put clay on his face, does that make him a devotee?

Boy George for example?

Well, yeah. People can just be so superficial. They put it on the internet and just pass it around and I don't even want to deal with it. Its like the gossip network. Whatever. I've never fit into any stereotypes. With the Krishnas, I never fit their stereotypes, within the punk scene... You know what I mean? It was just like "whatever".

But you've obviously impacted both.

Good.