Essentially, the following are cheaply-made brands originating in China: Bestler, Lark, Nieer, Parrot, Song Lin, Steuben, Xing Hai. Occasionally, the advertisements include names along the lines of "German/Italian/French Engineering". My belief is that "German/Italian/French Engineering" in this context is being used either as a company/trade name or as a reference to attempts to copy German/Italian/French methods of manufacture, since there are no main-stream German/Italian/French brass manufacturers of that name. For example, Lark produces bass trombones that are based on an old design by Josef Monk of Germany. Another frequent gimmick is the use of the word "original" followed by the brand name. Well, ok, the instruments are probably genuine Steubens/Bestlers/etc, but that's rather like a car dealer saying that the car he's trying to sell you is a genuine "Lada". Of course, if that sort of thing is what you're after... (26/10/02 Update - jjdadog@aol.com left this feedback for German-instruments on Oct-21-02 17:18:57 "Neutral: unable to fill order due to dock strike". The response by german-instruments was "strike is over you can fill and pay for order". These were obviously references to the West Coast dock strike, which impeded the entry to the USA of imports from the Far East - imports coming in from Europe via East Coast docks were not affected. Hence, German-instruments' instruments are obviously Far Eastern in origin and not German, despite the seller's misleading name!)

No trombonist I know who has ever had the opportunity to try one of these instruments would ever recommend them. At least, not if they valued their good reputations. And all have complained about the diabolical quality. Typical complaints include stuffiness (poor responsiveness), inferior build quality and in at least one case, the apparent absence of certain harmonics (i.e. poor design).

The following are the only circumstances I can think of in which someone would recommend one of the above instruments: if that person was a) trying to put you off the trombone, b) a sadist, c) recommending a cheap wall-hanging/lamp, d) playing a practical joke, e) the seller trying to make a quick buck.

If you want a good beginner's instrument, I strongly recommend getting a Yamaha. You can't go wrong with one of these - they're universally recognised as being of outstanding quality and are available at relatively low prices. The current Yamaha student model is the YSL-354 (this instrument is highly regarded by professionals and will keep its value relatively well if properly maintained). Other beginners' instruments of similar quality include the Bach TB300 and Conn Director but these will probably cost you more. If you're really pressed for cash, the cheapest trombone I'd suggest is a Jupiter (from Taiwan), but I'd really recommend spending a little bit more for the Yamaha instead.

Note: Whilst I have concentrated on Chinese instruments above, the reader should be aware that similar instruments are also coming out of India. Aside from instruments bearing their own brandnames, some Indian and Chinese companies sell unmarked instruments or instruments engraved with brandnames specified by importers in other countries. Also, it is now known that certain Besson trumpets/cornets being sold on eBay are in fact fakes produced in India, and the distinguishing feature of these instruments is that they all bear the same serial number. Your best bet to avoid landing an Indian or Chinese instrument is to e-mail the seller BEFORE you bid, asking for manufacturer's details (eg town/country of manufacture, name of manufacturer, manufacturer's website) and serial number. If the manufacturer turns out to be a well-known and respectable one, you can contact them about the serial number to verify the authenticity of the instrument on which you intend to bid.

Update: The sellers of German/French/Italian-Engineering instruments have since 2003 or thereabouts started including serial numbers on their instruments. I haven't gotten around to verifying if the instruments all have different numbers (limited good) or just the one same number (bad). The presence on an instrument of a sequential serial number is useful for identification if your instrument gets stolen. Unfortunately, the lack of manufacturer information means that the key reason I identified in the previous paragraph for having serial numbers remains unfulfilled.

I cannot stress enough the importance of doing your homework before you bid. Do not fall for "limited stocks" or "just a few left" ploys, whose purpose is to encourage you to put in a bid or better yet, use the "Buy-it-now" feature (where available). The sellers will often allow you to return the instrument after an evaluation period if you are unhappy, but the evaluation period is usually something like three or four days - if you are inexperienced, this in my opinion is insufficient time with which to properly evaluate your instrument. Furthermore, you will be out-of-pocket for shipping costs. If you do purchase an instrument you think might be dubious, try to have it evaluated during the trial period by an experienced trombonist or specialist trombone teacher rather than by a general music or band teacher (who might not possess in-depth knowledge of trombones and thus unwittingly give it an undeserved thumbs up).

"I purchased a 'Genuine New Silver school Flute... by German Engineering' in a time and money crunch for my daughter's band interest. I was not able to have the flute evaluated within the 3 day satisfaction guarantee, thus I am stuck with a ~$150 eBay lesson. Since the purchase, I have learned enough about flutes to know I was lied to by the seller's advertisement. Here is a list of lies about the flute i bought as advertised.

Seller Lie 1) 'German Engineering' - The exact same flute, same picture, same text is advertised as a 'Wexler', and a 'Morelli Model 794 of genuine Italian Engineering'. These are all the same flute, from the same seller –the only difference is the engraved model mark. Check other eBay flute sales.

Seller Lie 2) 'NOT one of those ‘Cheap Beginner Imitations? - See Lie #1, and check your local Sam’s Club. Most likely made in China - no ‘made in?or serial mark on flute/case.

Seller Lie 3) 'Normal Retail is $599.95' - For that price, you can buy a brand new flute produced by a reputable manufacturer at a local music store. For this flute’s true value, see your local Sam’s Club.

Seller Lie 4) 'Sturdy hardshell case' - The case is of low quality with plastic hinges and plastic peg slide closure.

Seller Lie 5) 'The DURABLE Steuben Flute will last for years' - Flute springs already loosening in posts so pads don’t tightly shut, killing low notes. One skin pad is slightly tearing. Flute needs to be repaired after less than 10 hours use.

Seller Lie 6) 'FAST SHIPPING... $19.90 shipping-handling' - Came by 3-day ground in an unpadded simple cardboard box, form fitting the flute case. Less than 4 lbs total weight for a 4x14?item. Bottom line: $20 for 3 day ground - seller padding price.

In my opinion, Great-Tunes is producing misleading ads about flutes, and this hurts eBay more than eBay profits from the transactions. If you choose to complain to eBay directly, let me know, and I will join you."

2) How to Get a Full Refund