Rich rich@carol.net
801
A few items I recall, I've made some notes in my copy of the assembly manuals if you need more specifics.
1) don't rivet the rear of rib #4 or the rear strut pickup until AFTER fitting and riveting trailing edge of wing. It gets in the way of a few rivets on the bottom of the rear spar. Cleco this rib from the inside and leave the clecos in until time to close the wing's top skin.
2) don't rivet the slat pickups to the #1 main rib until after fitting the inboard wingtip (inboard top skin). This will allow easier fitting of the top skin as it wraps down below the slat pickup. Remove the pickup while fitting the skin, then cleco in place and trim for the slat pickup as necessary, you may rivet in place after fitting the skin.
3) if your manual refers to 11 columns of 3 rivet holes each on the rear spar root, it should be 10.
4) be sure to print out and refer to Nick's update pages from the website.
Jim Frisby
Dave,
Don't forget to install the tie down rings in each wing per Drawing 8ZV-01.pdf (I had to ask ZAC to send me these since they were not originally included in the kit).
Also, my EAA technical counselor thought that I should use aluminum tubing for the fuel lines inside the wings vs. the rubber hose supplied by ZAC (mainly for durability / maintenance reasons.) This is more work but should pay off in the long run.
Good Luck
Ulrich LaFosse
To: Z4T143@aol.com
Good luck, Nigel Protter
To: Z4T143@aol.com
Buy another 75 of the small silver and the medium copper color cleqoes ..... also have on hand at least 6 of the ratchet straps, spread them equally along the wing when wrapping the nose skin.
I have a web site with many pictures and some additional suggestions .... www.picturetrail.com .... then enter 'bertsfoto' ......... you may want to go the the hardware store and buy more of the cork used to cushion the fuel tanks, also be sure you get some of that 3M adhesive they talk about ... I think it was 303 or something ..... if you need that let me know .... I think I got it from one of the aircraft supply houses .......
Another consideration is ..... are you going to put lights on the wingtips ..... the ZAC nav/strobes ???? I ran all of my wiring, which goes past the fuel tanks, in flexible poly tubing ..... another thought ....... the original wiring on the strobe power packs have you running the high voltage wires from the root end past the fuel tanks to the wing tips ...... I myself, did not care for this concept, I put the power packs in a sealed compartment in the wingtip and ran 12 volts DC from the root to the wingtip instead ......
Oh !! yes the fuel tanks ...... are you going to run injection in your engine ???? I am ..... I needed a fuel return ...... be sure and plumb the inside tank with a fuel return for the injector pumps ..............fuel injection needs a fuel return to the fuel tanks to return the bypass fuel from the high pressure fuel pumps ...................
One thing they don't tell you about the root end skin, you wrap that piece with great skill and rivet it on .... they didn't tell you, you have to take it back off to attach the wing to the fuselage ...........
The manuals a pretty good ....... they do take you step by step, and I think they even have some updates now .
Good Luck, if you need additional information just write back, glad to share.
Bert Amick
CH801
Now in Texas ..... it is a LOT warmer here !!
To: Z4T143@aol.com
To: Z4T143@aol.com
Leave out the rivets where the jury strut brackets will be placed so that you don't have drilled out rivet heads rolling around in your closed wings. DO NOT RIVET ROOT SKIN (It willl need to be off when you mount the wings). Don't forget to put in your pitot/static before zipping up the left wing nose skin. Use lots of rachet straps and a straight piece of wood to tighten up the leading edge fit. Be prepared to dremel/file out a longer slot for the slat pickup brackets on the wings. Enjoy :)Maureen
I think we have a pretty good airplane in the 801. I have enjoyed the building process so far thought it has some frustrating moments. First of all I don't profess to be a mechanic or mechinist like some of these fellers so I struggle with some of this at times. The manual isn't very clear in some places as you have probably found out.
I cleaned up (filed and sanded) all the parts prior to riviting anything together. To me, this saved some time and helped me become a little familiar with the parts I would be working with.
I also zinc chromated the individual pieces and the skins (on the inside) prior to riveting.
The areas I had the most problems with are as follows:
1. Installation of the fuel tanks (I bought the extended range tanks...don't think anybody would be satisfied with just two tanks in this bird). the problem I had was when I tried to install the tanks into the 1st and 2nd bays. Even though my measurements between the ribs were exactly as Zenith called for, when I put the tanks in, there was no room for the cork. The tanks were a tight press fit in the bays, metal-to-metal. Part of the problem was that the tanks were wider than Zenith called for in the manual. I ended up swapping tanks for the right wing and made them work...still tight. On my next wing, as I attach the ribs to the spar, I will make sure the tanks will fit in that space. I may even fudge a couple of mm wider so I will have room to get the tanks in there. Measure your tanks at their widest point. Just a few mm's will make a big difference.
Unless the manual has been updated, the pictures for the fuel tank installation are for a different tank then you have. Some of the installation is the same but you basically have to wing it (no pun intended). I placed my fuel sender units (I did use the VDO units supplied by ZAC) basically in the center of the tanks. (280mm from the top edge and 280mm from the inboard edge. I did this after talking with Nick.
2. I had a tough time pulling the nose skin around the ribs and getting everything to line up. I work basically alone but this is at least a two-man job. Make sure when you attach the rear ribs and the nose ribs that they are as close to perfect alignment as you can make them. It will pay off when you go to pull the nose skin around. It takes several straps to accomplish this. I used 6 straps...and would try it with less. Also be careful in the placement of the straps. I let one strap slide just to the outboard side of rib 7. As I pulled the straps, the rear spar channel buckled about 3 inches inboard of rib 7. I was a little sick. The channel deformed on the top flange only. Roger D. didn't think it would cause any problems once the wing was riveted together but I was a little leery so installed a doubler plate like the one used to join the rear spar channel pieces together. Just watch where you place the straps.
3. As you place the first inboard skin, take plenty of time to make sure the skin is square to the wing skeleton. if the first skin is square, the rest of them will be square.
4. When I attached the smaller outboard skin, I had trouble getting it square until I figured out that the distance between the main spar and the rear spar channel (at the wing tip) is not the same as the distance at rib 7. This is due to quite a lot of movement of the rear spar channel. I made a small wood jig to fit between the two spars to hold that distance constant while I was working on the tip end of the wing.
5. I installed wing tip strobe light. Zenith didn't really offer and method to do this. I ended up placing the strobe power unit on the outboard section of rib 7. I riveted a couple of standard "L's" on the inboard side of rib 7 to act as stiffeners. Prior to installing the stiffeners, I riveted nutplates on so I could easily remove the strobe power unit. I then cut a round access hole in the lower skin and put nutplates on the skin so I could get in there. I have a friend building an RV-6 and with their wing kit, they get a black plastic conduit (very light and ribbed) so it holds it's position in the holes I drilled in each rib. Makes it easy to gain access to the wiring. I lean towards making things so I can get to them for maintenance. I also installed nutplates in the top wing skin for the fuel tank sender unit access.
6. I am not sure which engine I will use but am leaning towards the LOM. Since I was not sure, I plumbed the right wing inboard fuel tank for a return line 9for the fuel injected engine). if I don't use it, I will simply cap it off. If you don't put it in as you build the wing, I don't think you can get it in there without cutting the fuel tanks out would be a major job.
7. Don't forget to install the wing tie down ring in the 5th bay.
8. The manual doesn't do a good job explaining the wing tip/fiberglass piece and sheet metal tip. I made a trip to Mexico to look at the factory bird and that cleared up my question. That part went pretty good.
9. The real beast of this project is that inboard root skin. It has too many curves and bends. I trimmed too close to the first skin (the rough-out was drawn by Zenith. Keep it plenty big as you start the ordeal. I ruined the first skin so will have to buy/make another for the left wing. I finally attached the skin first at a point 2/3 of the way toward the leading edge (near the front spar. And then you just have to start working the metal slowly. i saved this piece until the very last. I DID NOT rivet this piece but left the clecos in so it will be easier to fit when installed to the fuselage.
The wing does go together nicely but you'll cuss it a time or two. That is all I can think of for the moment. As I said, I am a slow learner and by no means an airplane mechanic at this point, but I will offer what little I know.
Good luck
Dale Carlson
I put a 270 degree loop about 5 inches in diameter to absorb any movement,
then bulkhead flare fittings where it went through things and adel clamps
where it didn't. I've used the rubber tube in aluminized heat shield under
the cowl. got all the parts from AS&S. Boost pump is behind the seat and
two lines run to the firewall.
Richard
How will you connect the aluminum fuel line to a fuel tank that moves & slightly vibrates?
Zenith-List message posted by: ullf3@juno.com
Rich,
I used oversized grommets through the ribs to pass the aluminum fuel lines. My tanks are fitted snugly between the ribs and supporting L's with cork so that they really will no move much (vibrate yes, but not shift). I expect the largest movements to result from flexing of the wings and hence rotation at the junction of the wing roots and the cabin. However, due to the "stout" struts, hefty wing spars, and short wing span the magnitude of the wing flexing and torsion should not be very much.
I also plan on using oversized grommets and Ell AN fittings inside the cabin adjacent to the door header (called door sill P/N 8F19-5 by ZAC) with sufficient "give" as the lines go aft then down to the seat support panel, then forward to fuel shutoff valves, gacolator, fuel boost pump etc. I am still working out the details. I also used 3/8-inch dia. Versatube (A/C Spruce P/N 3003-0) which is soft and has some "give".
Ulrich
801
Zenith-List message posted by: Riich rich@carol.net
Ulrich,
I bought the 3/8" versatube also a while back. What I can't find is
the E11 AN fittings. What page is it on? Is that E one one or ELL ???
Are you getting the steel or alum?
At Sun n Fun I noticed that the demo 801 had a fitting at the wing root
just inside the cabin. They used rubber hose inside the cabin. They
probably used this in the wing also. I want to use alum tubing & I think
I'll also use a fitting at the wing root... in case I ever need to
remove the wing to do some work.
I would like to cut a 6" hole in the bottom of the root skin ahead of
the spar. I have my wiring thru the spar at the root then going thru the
nose ribs where I have a thin walled PVC tubing which goes to the wing
tip.
Does it weaken the wing to cut inspection holes or affect wing
performance depending on location on the wing?
Thanks
Rich
Zenith-List message posted by: Rich rich@carol.net
Has anyone thought about or tried mounting the electric fuel pumps in
the wing root? Would it be any quieter or help with the cooler temps up
there? Or would it be more dangerous because there would be high
pressure fuel lines running thru the cabin (fuel injection setup).
Zenith-List message posted by: "HHOLCOMBE" holcombe@oregonfast.net
I know this, my fuel pump, mounted to aluminum just behind the seat, is way too noisy.
Electrical system working, fuel pump has got to be insulated from the
airframe.
Richard
Zenith-List message posted by: ullf3@juno.com
Jim:
When using "rubber line" I think inspection and maintenance every annual. Also this would be true of hard line if installed. I think the key here is to make sure ALL critical systems are readily accessible and are easy to inspect. If this means drilling out 80 or 90 rivets to replace or inspect a component than so be it. Inspection holes can be placed where you need them AND where ZAC will approve them. If a critical component is not in a place where an inspection hole can easily be cut than a panel or skin will have to be removed at every annual
The important issue besides inspection is replacement. Aside from having to cut in large inspection holes to provide a view on the ZAC supplied rubber hose (specially with the auxiliary tanks - two per wing) for annuals, it would be near impossible to provide sufficient access to replace all rubber every three to five years (guesstimate) without drilling out a large section of the wing (I don't know about you but I don't plan to paint the plane that often) ... That is the reason I preferred and opted for the aluminum tubing. Rigid aluminum (5052-0) seemed like overkill - too hard to work with - so I went with 3003-0 (upon the advice of my very experienced EAA T.C.)
Ulrich
801 - O360
when installing a 2nd fuel tank in each wing, the fuel line hole is no
longer drilled thru the flaperon bracket in rib #1. Before the updates
were available I put the hole thru the bracket just like the plans said
with the additional rivet. Will this still be ok? I would also like to
put it this way on the left wing I am working on now because there is
more room (the fuel tank bracket is in the way).
Anyone ask Zenith about this yet? I hope to get an answer from you guys
to avoid wasting the entire weekend.
Rich I have the aux. tanks. I did not like the original location of the
aux. tank fuel line hole through rib #1 because the hole is higher that the tank outlet and its best to have the fuel lines continually sloped down to the gascolator to avoid trapping moisture in the line. I am also using 3/8 aluminum tube which has smaller OD than the rubber tube supplied by ZAC.
tank fuel line and this results in a small radius (moon shaped) cut out in the front edge of the flaperon bracket (between rivets so rivet
edge distance is respected). I did not ask ZAC about this. However, in
subsequent discussions with N. Heintz he aknowledged the problem with the [original] hole location (higher than the tank outlet level.). When I spoke to him he did not say that the original design was defective from a structural standpoint just that it was a line level problem.
I can't tell you which way to go. But I'm passing this along so you know
how someone else dealt with it.
Ulrich
CH 801
I haven't asked ZAC, in fact I'm surprised there is a change, the home page still says the file was updated 6/99. Last night, I drilled the 7/8 hole in
that bracket for my second wing. I have to say, I was concerned about the
"hump" in the aux tank fuel line routing with the "thru the bracket" route.
I think the upper route is going to be worse. Unless I hear a good reason,
I'm going thru the bracket.