ENA
July 23(?), 1998
by Abebe Gelaw
The Egyptian ambassador here Mr. Marawan Badr gave an interview to journalists from the Ethiopian Press Agency focused on issues related to Ethio-Eritrean border dispute, the Nile waters and peace efforts in Somalia. Following are excerpts:-
Question: How do you assess the current state of Ethio-Egyptian relations?
Answer:- I believe the relations between the two countries are good. There is exchange of views at the highest level between our head of state and the Prime Minister of Ethiopia. There is also exchange of between the two foreign ministers. Your foreign Minister was recently in Cairo where he met with the President and the foreign Minister. We had the Ouagadougou ministerial and summit meetings where the two ministers discussed various issues with regard to promoting bilateral cooperation between the two countries and coordinating our effort toward regional developments particularly that of Somalia and the Sudan.
Question:- What are the major national interests that Egypt pursues in the Horn of Africa?
Answer:- As you know, we consider ourselves to be part of Africa in general and part of northeastern Africa in particular. We depend for 97 per cent of our water resource on the Nile which we share with nine other African countries. So it is quite natural that we show interest in development in this sub-region. And hence we try to promote relations with countries in the sub-region.
The same applies also to the Horn of Africa, as it constitutes the southern entrance of the Red Sea. We are very concerned about the peace and stability as well as guaranteeing security of shipping routes in the Red Sea, which is also the southern entrance of the Suez Canal. We believe that threat to peace, security and stability in this region has an immediate bearing in the security of the Middle East in general and Egypt in particular.
Question:- What is the position of Egypt toward the Ethio-Eritrean conflict especially in light of the US-Rwandan peace plan and the resolution of the OAU summit in Ouagadougou?
Answer:- Let us to see it from the perspective of the Nile issue. Regrettably, what is being reported in the media is that our major concern is over the water and we agree to that.
There are two approaches to get water. We believe that to make better use of the existing waters and to make use of the existing potentials you need to have projects. All these projects are upstream in the equatorial and the Ethiopian plateaus. There is no way to be engaged in the construction of these water projects which cost a lot and take years to construct unless we have peace and stability. There should be good neighborliness among the riparian states. For instance, we agreed with Sudan to build the Jonglei Canal. We spend 300 million US dollars on the canal. We undertook two-third of the project. We were supposed to start benefiting in 1984. It means we are behind schedule for 14 years.
In the first stage, we were supposed to get about 3.8 billion cubic metres of water. Over this period we have lost about 50 billion cubic metres of water. We have also lost 3000 million US dollars which we spend on the project. This is all because of the instability in southern Sudan due to the ongoing fighting between the government and the SPLA. This applies to the wider Nile Basin. If you have instability in Ethiopia and Eritrea or other riparian states, we cannot have these projects. So it is in our interest that this area is peaceful and stable so that we can consider the possibility of regional cooperation to have these water projects.
Unless there is peace, stability and good neighborliness in the Nile Basin, we will not be able to have regional cooperation. On this basis, we are really very concerned about the dispute between Ethiopia and Eritrea. Egypt has nothing to benefit from the conflict. On the contrary, it will definitely have negative impact on regional cooperation that we could benefit from.
At the OAU summit in Ouagadougou, the summit considered the developments. There was already the US-Rwanda peace proposal and it was endorsed by the ministerial meeting as well as the Summit. The summit established a Presidential Delegation chaired by the current chairman of the OAY President Blaise Compaore of Burkina Faso to contact the two countries and to see how to implement the OAU resolution and the Rwandese-Amrican proposal.
At the ministerial level, there was some sort of a core group of ministers including the Foreign Minister of Egypt who drafted the resolution, which was endorsed by the ministerial meeting and later the summit. We are, therefore, committed to that resolution in which we took part in drafting and adopting it.
Following that we received in Cairo two ministerial delegation from Eritrea and your foreign Minister. We encouraged them to find a peaceful resolution to the dispute. Our President also sent messages to Prime Minister Miles and the President of Eritrea encouraging them to seek peaceful resolution to the conflict. He offered his readiness to assist in any way he can if they request him to do so. At the same time, he sent a message to the President of Burkina Faso and current chairman of the OAU expressing full support for the OAY resolution and the presidential mission.
Unfortunately, some news reports are circulating that there is an Egyptian peace initiative and mediation effort. Even news coming from Eritrea based on interviews with President Issaias Afeworki, indicated that there might be an Egyptian peace initiative. But this is not true. What we said is that we are supporting the OAU resolution and there will never be any Egyptian peace initiative or proposals. We communicated this to the government of Ethiopia and it is well aware of our position.
Question:- The Eritrean government is said to have requested Egypt to give military assistance to its war of aggression. What was the response of your government to such a request?
Answer: Well, I really don't know the contacts between Eritrea and Egypt. But I believe our position is to maintain a neutral stand because we cherish our relationships with both countries, which are within the sub-region. If Ethiopia is important to us because of the Nile, Eritrea is also important to us because of the security of the Red Sea. As a result, we would like to maintain a balanced relationship between the two.
Answer: We support the idea of equitable utilization of the Nile waters, among the riparian countries. It is true that there are certain agreements, which are referred to as the Nile Water Agreements. The only obligation to the upstream countries in this agreement is that they should refrain from under taking any water project that might adversely affect its flow to the down stream countries without prior consultation. There is no provision in this agreement that prevent the development and use of the water resources. It is just quite natural that the upstream could possibly affect the downstream adversely while it is not possible the other way round.
Within the framework of this general principles, we were able to cooperation with the Sudan with regard to the building of dams and development of the existing potentials like the Jonglei Canal. The same applies to Uganda where we jointly built the Own Dam back in early 1950s. Thus, the agreements were quite beneficial to both countries.
As I said earlier, nothing in the existing water agreement can prevent us from cooperating together for the equitable uses of the water to better utilization the existing huge potentials.
Again, there were several attempts at regional level to solve this problem. As long as we share trans-boundary rivers there have to be agreement on equitable utilization. We started this process of regional framework since the early sixties. We tried this either on our own as riparian states or seeking the assistance of the UN specialized agencies and some donor countries. There were several attempts to promote regional cooperation and understanding with the purpose of utilizing the Nile waters to make the best use of the existing resource available and to try to maximize the utilization of the huge volume of water which is lost due to evaporation and seepage in swamps and in the water course.
We had signed a framework of agreement even with Ethiopia in July 1993. We were supposed to meet at higher level to implement that agreement though we met at expert level for two rounds of negotiations back in late 1993 and early 1994. But unfortunately, the meetings were later suspended on the request of the Ethiopian government.
Again, going back to the regional framework or mechanism, the most recent one was the TECCONILE. Regrettably, Ethiopia did not become a fully-fledged member though it participated as an observer even at ministerial level. The TECCONILE came up with a plan of action comprising 23 different projects. One of the projects was aimed at promoting regional cooperation and the establishment of a regional body for the management of the waters of the Nile.
It was specially agreed that among the terms of reference of such a body once it is established to look into the allocation of the water among the riparian states on equitable utilization. As I said earlier, Ethiopia and one or two other riparian states did not join as fully-fledged members. And to overcome this obstacle or reality, it was agreed, most recently in Arusah in February this year among the ten riparian states including Ethiopia that they would work on drafting an agreement on the establishment of a new organization to take over from TECCONILE comprising all ten riparian states including Ethiopia.
Question:- As you very well know, Ethiopia contributes 86 per cent of the Nile waters but utilizes less than one per cent of the water resources. Do you recognize Ethiopia's legitimate right to utilize the Nile waters to a significant level commensurate with its substantial contribution to the river?
Answer: As I indicated earlier, we consider that we all share the same river. All of us are entitled to utilize the Nile waters. But again we have to agree among ourselves how we should distribute this water on an equitable and fair basis. It is not a matter of what we want and what you want.
Although there is no binding international law in this regard, over the years some sort of consensus are developing. There are already various elements that could be included in the criteria without which you cannot decide the equitable share of the waters. Among these criteria, the population, economic activities, the past use of the resources and the future used of each country are taken into consideration. In addition, whether each riparian state has other available water resources and whether they are viable economic resources or not should also be considered.
According to available international data, the total precipitation over the Nile Basin is around 1,600 billion cubic metres of water. The volume of water reaching Aswan is 84 billion cubic metre of water. Out of that, Egypt gets 55.5 billion cubic metre of water. What Egypt gets is only 4 per cent of the total precipitation over the Nile Basin.
Referring to your question concerning the projects in Egypt, what we say is that Egypt is a downstream country. We are the last in the river course. We don't really see how projects we undertake in Egypt can adversely affect the upstream countries. Besides we repeatedly mentioned that we are already getting 55.5 cubic metres of water according to the 1959 water agreement with the Sudan. We are saying that we are going to provide the waters for all these projects whether it is the Peace Canal in Sinai or the Tockka canal in Southern Egypt from the 55.5 cubic metre. We are just in the process of better utilization our share of water. We are now using almost 62 billion cubic of water. The difference between the 55.5 and 62 billion cubic meter of water is recycled water. We are doing this with the purpose of using the available 55.5 cubic metre of water without asking for extra. But definitely, for the future we hope to be able to get bigger share of the water.
Question:- But contrary, to what you said, there seem to be complaints from the upper riparian states, which contribute almost the total discharge of the Nile river, that the current monopoly of the waters by Egypt has been an obstacle to reach an agreement for the equitable utilization of the Nile waters. What is your view on this issue?
Answer: -Historically we don't see monopoly because we are part of the river basin. The Nile is flowing to Egypt since time immemorial. It was possibly only Egypt which was depending on irrigated agriculture. The other riparian countries were depending on other economic activities than agriculture. Whatever agriculture they were depending on was basically rain-fed agriculture. New they are saying that there is an increasing need for irrigated agriculture. That is why they need more water. We are saying that we should sit together and discuss the issue.