From: lazlo@swcp.com (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: FAQ for the marketplace and collecting groups
Newsgroups: rec.music.marketplace.cd,rec.music.marketplace.vinyl,rec.music.marketplace.misc,rec.music.collecting.cd,rec.music.collecting.vinyl,rec.music.collecting.misc
Date: 10 Dec 1995 07:05:11 GMT
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Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
rec.music.{marketplace/collecting} Hierarchies
Last Update: 10 November 1995
Copyright 1995 by Ernie Longmire (Lazlo Nibble)
Additions, corrections, and inquiries to lazlo@swcp.com
Ernie Longmire, P.O. Box 93775, Albuquerque, NM 87199
See the end of this file for more detailed copyright info
The current version of this file is available from:
ftp://ftp.swcp.com/pub/users/lazlo/marketplace-collecting/
Thanks to the following for help and suggestions:
David A. Pearlman
Andrew Russ
Jim Saxe
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::: Questions Answered In This FAQ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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General Questions
G001 How much is my collection worth?
G002 I have a record/CD/tape with a drill hole/notch cut in the cover.
Why are records/CDs/tapes "cut out"?
G003 I have some items marked "Promotional - Not For Sale".
Is it really illegal to buy and sell these?
G004 I want to buy records from someone outside the US, but I don't want
to send cash -- how can I arrange payment?
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CD Questions
C001 Is "CD Rot" for real?
Some of my CDs are turning a bronze color. What's going on?
C002 What was the first CD ever?
C003 I have a mispressed CD -- it's supposed to be by Artist X but it
plays a completely different album. Is it worth anything?
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Vinyl Questions
V001 What is an RCA "Shaded Dog" record? Why are they so valuable?
V002 What is a test pressing? Are they collectable?
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::: General Questions ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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G001 How much is my collection worth?
Any item has two values: how much someone is willing to pay for it,
and how much someone would have to pay before you'd be willing to
sell. Therefore the only people who can really determine the real
"price" of an item are the buyer and seller.
It may or may not help to consult a price guide. Guide authors use
all kinds of techniques to derive the prices they list, but they can't
take into account local supply and demand, market fluctuations brought
on by reissues or changes in people's tastes, or retailer whim. Supply
and demand always trumps the price guide. Some really high guide prices
are the highest price that item brought at auction somewhere; just
because there's one person crazy enough to pay that price for the record
doesn't mean you can expect to find another.
If you're trying to sell your collection to a dealer and expect him to
pay you guide price on it, forget it. Even if he can sell the records
again for those prices, he's typically only going to want to pay you
half that price for them -- otherwise he's not making any money in
selling them. You can almost always do better in selling your collection
to other collectors than in selling to a dealer, but then you have to do
all the work (writing up and placing ads, collecting payment, packaging
and shipping).
In other words, there's no simple answer to this question. You won't
know the answer unil you've sold it all and have time to count the money
in your pocket afterwards.
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G002 I have a record/CD/tape with a drill hole/notch cut in the cover.
Why are records/CDs/tapes "cut out"?
The short answer: items are "cut out" (physically damaged in some way)
to prevent record shops from returning them to the labels for credit.
Itmes are marked as cutouts by slicing a notch or drilling a hole in a
corner of the sleeve or jewel box.
The term "cutouts" generically refers to discontinued or overstock
items that were marked as cutouts by the record label, then sold in
bulk to a cutout distributor. The cutout distributor then sells them
(usually in "grab bag" form -- pay a flat price per unit, you don't get
to choose what you get) to record stores, who sell them on the cheap.
Artists don't get royalties on these sales, which is part of why they
can be let go for so little.
To confuse things slightly, some labels will mark promo releases in
the same way they mark cutouts -- by notching or drilling the case --
instead of using a "For Promotional Release Only" stamp or sticker. If
you run across a "cutout" of something that's been released in the
last couple of months, it's really a promo. Some promo CDs have a
hole punched (not drilled) in the UPC code on the tray insert, but leave
the jewel case intact.
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G003 I have some items marked "Promotional - Not For Sale".
Is it really illegal to buy and sell these?
No. The record companies will occasionally rattle their sabres on this
issue but in fact they have no legal power to prevent people from buying
and selling marked promos. In fact, they are well aware that most of
the promos they issue end up being sold in the open market sooner or
later, and often will send out "collectable" promos in bulk as a sort
of bribe to encourage record shops and radio stations to push their
product. The "Must Be Returned To The Record Company On Demand" wording
of some promo labels is meaningless; no record company has ever issued
the demand.
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G004 I want to buy records from someone outside the US, but I don't want
to send cash -- how can I arrange payment?
Check with your bank first. Most major banks should have a department
or office that can issue checks for you in the currency of your choice.
Unfortunately, in some areas this service is extremely expensive or
simply unavailable. If you live in the US and have difficulty getting
international checks in your area, a company called Ruesch International
can issue a check in any denomination for a flat fee of $2.00.
Ruesch International, Inc.
700 Eleventh St. NW
Washington. DC 20001-4507
800: (800) 424-2923
Tel: (202) 408-1200
Fax: (202) 408-1211
Call their 1-800 number and ask for the "international department".
Tell them you want an international check. They'll need the name of
the person you want it made out to, so have that ready when you call.
They will issue a check drawn on a bank in the country you're sending
it too, and will hold the check(s) until they recieve payment (you can
write them a check and mail it to them -- they *do not* take credit
cards).
Ruesch is reliable, friendly, and cheap.
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::: CD Questions :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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C001 Is "CD Rot" for real?
Some of my CDs are turning a bronze color. What's going on?
In general, no, "CD Rot" is not real. To date there is no evidence
that CDs, if properly manufactured and stored, will gradually become
unplayable. Unfortunately there have been several occasions where
*improperly* manufactured CDs have been sold to the public only to
self-destruct in some way later on.
One early problem occurred in the mid-to-late 1980s when a number of CDs
were labeled with an ink that eventually migrated through the lacquer on
the label side and caused the aluminum surface to lose its reflectivity.
The damage is immediately visible by looking at the data side of the
discs in question. These discs self-destructed very quickly and were
pressed in relatively small numbers, so you are unlikely to run across
any today.
The best-known problem is with a larger number of discs pressed between
1989 and 1991 by Philips Data Optical (PDO) in the UK. Due to errors in
manufacturing, these discs are slowly turning a dark orange or bronze
color, primarily on the data side. This discoloration gradually
propagates from the outer edge of the CD towards the center, and can
eventually make such discs unplayable. If you have such a disc, PDO will
replace it for free. You can contact them at the following address to
arrange for the replacement:
Dave Wilson, Marketing Services Manager
PDO Discs Ltd. (UK)
Philips Road
Blackburn, Lancashire BB1 5RZ
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 254-52448
Fax: +44 254-54729
By all reports, PDO have been very accomodating in their response to this
problem.
There *is* a real phenomenon called "laser rot" that affects 12" video
laserdiscs, but it is caused by problems that occur when the two sides
of such a disc are glued together. CDs are one-sided so they are not
at risk for this particular problem.
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C002 What was the first CD ever?
According to the "Tenth Anniversary of The CD" supplement to the
26 Sep 1992 issue of Billboard Magazine (thanks to Derek Nichols
for looking this up):
* 1 October 1982: Billy Joel - 52nd St.
(First commercial CD released in Japan.)
* June 1983: 12 CBS titles, 15 Telarc titles, 30 Denon titles
(First US CD releases. All CDs sold in the US previously had been
import titles pressed for overseas labels. These were still
manufactured overseas, but for US labels.)
* August 1983: Polygram releases 100 titles in the US
* September 1984: Bruce Springsteen - Born In The USA
(First CD manufactured in the US.)
According to Clinton Heylin in his book Bootleg: The Secret History
Of The Other Recording Industry:
* 1987: The Beatles - Get Back acetate, BBC sessions, and Sessions
(Probably the first genuine bootleg CDs; a young entrepreneur
convinced the Technotronics pressing plant in Philadelphia that
he worked for EMI and needed these three CDs pressed in quantities
of 500 each as "promos". They did it! He sold most of them for
$100 each at the 1987 Beatlefest.)
* Late 1987: Bob Dylan - The Gaslight Tapes
(First "protection gap" bootleg; i.e., an unauthorized release legal
in some countries but not in others because of differences in
international copyright laws.)
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C003 I have a mispressed CD -- it's supposed to be by Artist X but it
plays a completely different album. Is it worth anything?
As mentioned elsewhere, any item is worth pretty much what you can
convince someone else to pay for it. At the moment, there doesn't seem
to be any real collector interest in mislabeled or mispackaged CDs --
among other reasons, they're far too common. In most cases you're
better off taking it back to the store for a new copy.
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::: Vinyl Questions ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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V001 What is an RCA "Shaded Dog" record? Why are they so valuable?
RCA's "Shaded Dogs" are their LSC-series (Living Stereo Classical) LPs
from the late 1950s and early 1960s -- the term "shaded dog" refers to
the painting of Little Nipper on the label of these records, which has
a shaded background on a red label. This series was very exactingly
recorded and is in demand primarily among audiophiles who actually
want to listen to these excellent-sounding performances. The mere
presence of a "shaded dog" on the label doesn't automatically make it
valuable; since these are sought out for listening purposes, condition
is extremely important and some pressings (identified by the matrix
number in the runout groove) are in higher demand than others.
This is definitely a specialist's market. If you're interested in
dipping your toes, a book by Jonathan Valin called The Living Stereo
Bible describes the series in more detail.
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V002 What is a test pressing? Are they collectable?
[David A. Pearlman answers:]
Test pressings were issued for many albums issued from the late '60's
through the early '80's. Typically, a small number (very rarely over
a few hundred, frequently fewer) test pressing copies of an album
would be pressed. These were obstensibly for use only by record
company personel, the artist, and/or for advanced promotion. The
exact numbers of test pressings issued varied both with the particular
release and with the label. By the mid '80's, the vinyl test pressing
had generally been replaced by advanced copies on cassette tape.
Test pressings are generally identical to their commercial
counterparts except that the label is different. In some cases, the
label will describe the contents. In most cases, it will simply list
the pressing plant where the test pressing was made. Most test
pressings were originally issued in generic white sleeves, usually
with a Xeroxed copy of the track listing, label information, producer,
publishers, etc. included. Over the years, these Xeroxed information
sheets tend to get lost, so many test pressings are found without
them.
Although most test pressings simply replicate commercially available
material, there are occasional test pressings which correspond to
music that was pulled from issue at the last minute (but after the
test pressings were distributed). These tend to be much more
desirable.
The value of test pressings vary widely. Test pressings for albums by
groups of little collectable interest can usually be obtained for
between $2-10. Test pressings for collectable artists/albums can cost
much more.
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This document is Copyright 1995 by Ernie Longmire (Lazlo Nibble).
Permission is granted to download/print out/redistribute/establish WWW links
to this file provided it is unaltered, including credits and copyright notice.
Please ask for permission before publishing this document (in print, off
the Web, and/or for profit) or altering the file for publishing on the Web.
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