From  by
bakunin@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael Bakunin):

> People get funny about grading, and I'm no exception. I usually
> undergrade. I hate grade inflation to that M/NM/VG+++/VG++/VG+/VG
> system where VG, very good, really means 'crap'.
> 
> My grades: 
> 
> M = mint. Perfect. I almost never grade vinyl mint. 
> 
> Ex = excellent. Sleeve looks great, but with negligible imperfections.
> Vinyl looks and sounds great, but with a very little noise. I grade
> most brand new records Ex/Ex, not M/M.
> 
> VG = very good. Sleeve still looks nice, but shows a bit of wear.
> Vinyl plays well, but mild scuffs or a little noise will drop it from
> Ex.
> 
> G = good. Sleeve is in decent shape, but is worn by ring wear, corner
> creases, seam splits or some such. Vinyl is fine, but heavier scuffs
> or easily audible noise drop the grade.
> 
> F = fair. Sleeve is going, but not gone. Vinyl is playable, but quite
> noisy. A _big_ drop from G.
> 
> P = poor. Sleeve is trashed, or missing. Vinyl is nearly unlistenable
> due to scratches and wear. No matter how rare, you probably don't want
> to own it in this shape.

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From: backtrac45@aol.com (BackTrac45)
Subject: Re: Too many grades is confusing!
Newsgroups: rec.music.collecting.vinyl
Date: 3 Aug 1996 07:39:19 -0400
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In article <4tts1d$bat@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, cyteen@ix.netcom.com
(Susan Murray) writes:

>I propose that dealers adopt standardized grades:
>
>NM or M- (being the same)
>VG++ or EX
>VG+
>VG
>G, F & P (but these are "trashed" records)

 Okay, based on what I have learned in my days, I will show
not only the grades but the percentage of value that is
most common and agreed upon among the price guides
and used by the majority of dealers (the big boys) ;).
 Now to break down the values one must remember that
some records that are worth thousands can still bring in
top dollar in less than NM condition. That does not mean
that the NM value will increase with the next price guide
that comes out. It means that finding a NM copy is going
to become harder to find. So keep this in mind.

 Using your grade scale (from above). I created a chart.
Below the grade is the percentage of value based
on book prices for NM. These are for the common isssues
(most LP's that are found often) up to collectable rarities
(records that are extremely rare and considered collectable)

NM or M- (being the same):
Since NM commands generally 100%, the prices are generally
based on the availabilty of a record. Some regions are going
to have lots of this record, but very few of another.
 However records that are book valued below $10 will often sell
for as much as 90% less than the book value. Records that
are priced above $25 are considered more scarce and will come
closer to book value if not sold for book. There is always a high
and low end to the value of records. This is because of what
I have mentioned. Some records will be easier to find in L.A.
than in Chicago and vice versa.

VG++ or EX:
If book value is 3-5 (50 to 75% of book value)
If book value is 5-8 (same as above)
If book value is 10-15 ( 60% to 75% of book value)
If book value is 15-20 (same as above)
If book value is 20-30 (75% to 90% of book value)
If book value is 30-50 (same as above)
If book value is 50-100 (same as above)
If book value is 100-200 (80% to 90% of book value)
If book value is 250-500 (almost always 90%)
If book value is 750-1000 and above .....
....(90% but can command 100% of NM value)
About the last 3 entries:
If NM is impossible to find, it is NOT uncommon
to see 100% of NM value asked for EX condition.

VG+:
If book value is 3-5 (35% to 50%)
If book value is 5-8 (same as above)
If book value is 10-15 (40% to 50%)
If book value is 15-20 (same as above)
If book value is 20-30 (50% )
If book value is 30-50 (same as above)
If book value is 50-100 (50% to 60%)
If book value is 100-200 (60% but possibly as much as 75%)
If book value is 250-500 (same as above)
If book value is 750-1000 and above .....
(70% up to 80%, ONLY if the item is scarce and can not be
found in any better condition. Records above $1000 can often
sell in auction for more than NM value. I have seen it before
although it is seldom. Auctions don't reflect the real market)

VG:
If book value is 3-5 (15% to 25%)
If book value is 5-8 (same as above)
If book value is 10-15 (30% of book value)
If book value is 15-20 (same as above)
If book value is 20-30 (20% 30%)
If book value is 30-50 (30% to 35% )
If book value is 50-100 (30% to 40%)
If book value is 100-200 (same as above)
If book value is 250-500 (40% to 50%)
If book value is 750-1000 and above .....
(50% up to 60%. Remember that we are
talking about rare items that most likely
will be hard to find in NM, EX or VG+ condition)

G:
If book value is 3-5 (0%-5%)
If book value is 5-8 (5%-10% )
If book value is 10-15 (same as above)
If book value is 15-20 (same as above)
If book value is 20-30 (same as above)
If book value is 30-50 (10%- 15%)
If book value is 50-100 (same as above)
If book value is 100-200 (15% to 20% of book value)
If book value is 250-500 (20% but not more than 25%)
If book value is 750-1000 and above .....
(30% with the idea that the record is very scarce
and is hard to find NM, EX, VG+ or VG)

 F & P (but these are "trashed" records)
"You're right Susan" ;)

 Only the rarest records can still have value in
these conditions. A cracked record of some
very rare items have been known to sell for
thousands at auctions. This is seldom however
and does not reflect the real market.
 Unless a record book prices above $200 I would
say it is best not to ask more than 5% for any
record that is Fair or Poor.
 A record that is price around $50 but is cracked
is not worthy of placing value. It should be free
to anyone who may just want to have it.
It might still play, but 99% of the records that
are poor, are worthless.

  This is information based on published price guides
and also based on what many big name dealers
tend to follow. They may be mainstream for the
most part yet they do not always control the way
the actuall market operates. If you are planning on
being a fair seller and wish to stay below book prices
all the time, you can then either take the the lowest
end of the scale (percentage wise) or even price
at a percentage lower than the low end scale.
Either way you are trying to stay competitive.
Remember, unless uou have a strong clientel, finding
a deep pocket collector is not going to easy.  You
also do not allow others to enjoy the hobby, since
pricing to high turns off even the richest people.

 In example:  If a record book values at $100
and your record is NM. You will be more likely to find
a buyer for $75. So you stayed 25% below the
book value.  If the record is valued at $50, you might
wish to sell it for $25. So you stayed 50% below
book value.  And as I mentioned, most records that
book value at $5  to $10 are not realistic prices for
the majority of common issues. These prices are
only in print, since a number had to be given. It is
like lumping all the 80's and current issues into
a pool and this is the average they came up with.
 Obviously if the price guides spent more time on
reseaching common issues, each artist would have
a more defined book value. Many would never be
priced more than $3. Many would never be priced more
than a dollar. However many people would still be
asking the low end of $3 and $5 just because there is a price
put on in it, in Rockin' Records. Demand for the common
issues may bring in that $5, however it is not realistically
going to happen every time.  If only 1 person is willing to
pay that amount, you will sit on the rest of those records
for years, before finding another person who is willing
to spend that amount again.

  Hope some people get someting out of this.
I am going to keep a copy of it (so I don't have to
type it again). If I mispelled anaything, I apoligize.
I will try to proof read it so everyone can undersatand it.

   Tim

*********************
Owner of Back-Trac Records
Oldies Dealer via WWW site
(815) 965-2008
Store location Rockford, IL

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From: normk@cts.com (Norm Katuna)
Subject: FAQ:  TERMINOLOGY
Newsgroups: rec.music.collecting.vinyl
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 05:37:35 GMT
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OK everyone, here it is.  The long awaited Terminology FAQ.  I have been
sending it to Susan for advice.  This wasn't as easy as I thought.  She
asked me to post it to the group to see what you think.  Please don't find
to many mistakes.  This has been a lot of work.  If it passes, then I guess
it will get posted once a week.   So here goes.

*****************************************************************************************


FAQ:  TERMINOLOGY

The Norm Katuna list of definitions and abbreviations for
rec.music.collecting.vinyl  and rec.music.marketplace.vinyl

Copyright 1996 by Norm Katuna
Additions and corrections to: normk@cts.com
Norm Katuna P. O. Box 80154, San Diego, Ca.  92138

Thanks to the following individuals for their additions:  Randy Darrah, Tim
at Back-trac records and Tapio Keihanen.

This will be broken up into two sections.  Part one:  Terms and definitions
and part two:  Abbreviations.

PART ONE:  TERMS AND DEFINITIONS

These are terms and definitions that are common and not so common to the
record collecting and record selling community.  If you have any additions
or corrections please e-mail me at the address at the end of the FAQ.

Repro---Reproduction--Same as Counterfeit.  An exact copy of a record done
without permission of the original record company or without permission of
the owner of the master recording.

First Pressing--The way the record first came out on a certain label.
Examples:  The first pressing of "Sixty minute man" by the Dominoes came
out on Gold top Federal.  The first pressing of "Church bells may ring" by
the Willows came out as "Church bells are ringing" and all that was changed
a few weeks later was the title.  The label design and color remained the
same.

Second pressing (also can be called third, fourth, etc. and later
pressing)--A later legal issue of a record.   This type is usually
distinguished by a different type label design, color or by a small
variation to the label.

Reissue--There are several types of reissues.  There is the budget reissue.
This falls into the K-tell, design, forum and etc labels.  These are
discount labels that got the permission to use the original master to issue
songs (usually hits) later as discount compilations.  Then there is the
reissue that is just a later issue that isn't a budget item.  Labels that
can fit here are:  Collectibles, Eric, Rhino and etc.  And then there is
the other type reissue.  A record that was originally pressed on a small
label and then was picked up by a major or by a big independent.  Examples:
Q-Mark and the Mysterions--"96 Tears". First recorded for Pa go go.  It was
picked up by Parkway/Cameo and reissued on Cameo.  "Short shorts", the
Royal Teens--original on Power but the hit was on ABC Paramount after ABC
picked it up from Power and reissued it on their own label.  The Motley
Crew's first album originally came out on Leather and then was picked up
and reissued on Elektra.

Re-recording--A song that was originally recorded by an artist for one
label and then was re-recorded and issued later by another label.
Examples:  Roy Orbison and the Teen Kings.  "Ooby Dooby"--originally
recorded for Je-wel records and was later re-recorded and issued on Sun.
Penguins--"Earth Angel"--Originally recorded and released by Dootone
records.  Re-recorded and issued later on Mercury.

Master #s.  This is the term used for the song identification # for each
side of a record.  It is usually printed on the label and is also in the
dead wax of a record.  I think it was also the catalog # given to each
recorded song of a record label.  RCA, Columbia and Epic had special
alphabetical prefixes for their master #s.

Dated master #s.  Some labels for a time put a date at the beginning of
their master #s.  This would show the releases for that year.  The next
year would start at the bottom of the numbering sequence.  Labels that did
this were:  VJ, Tollie, M-G-M and Cub.  These were mostly on the 45s.

Machine Stamped--A lot of labels used perfect die cut letters to put the
master #s and pressing #s in the dead wax of their records.  This is
different than the hand written #s that some companies used.  In a lot of
cases this can be used to a certain degree of certainty in determining a
bootleg. Some companies that had machine stamped master #s  were:  RCA,
Decca, Coral, Brunswick, Capitol. Columbia, Liberty, Laurie and Rust.
Atlantic had the #s usually hand written, but somewhere in the dead wax had
AT---machine stamped.

Dead Wax--Also known as the trail-off groove.  The area between the end of
the record and the label.

Delta #-- In July of 1954 an independent pressing plant in Los Angeles,
called Monarch Records started putting a Delta (triangle) with a # next to
it in the dead wax of each record that they pressed.  This is the way that
they kept track of the order of items pressed.  Each side had it's own
Delta #.

Repaired Seam---In a lot of cases the edge seam on album covers, EP covers
and picture sleeves become split.  This is a designation to show that this
has been repaired.  Sometimes this is done by gluing the ends together and
sometimes tape is used to close the split.

Colored wax--Several companies in the early 50s used color wax on some of
their 45 issues.  These are normally a lot rarer and more sought after than
the normal black wax release. Some examples:
King--Blueish green for its R&B series, and red wax for its maroon label
country series.
Federal--Same blueish green wax as King
Chance--Red Wax
Vee Jay--Red Wax
Gotham--Pink Wax
Jubilee--Red Wax
Imperial--purple wax
And the most famous of the 60s labels to issue white label promos on
colored wax.  Columbia with the following known colors:  Red wax, green
wax, blue wax, yellow wax and purple wax..

Timing strip--This is usually found on the front of promo copies of albums.
This shows the song titles and playing times for each cut on the album.
These can take up a small space at the bottom of an album or can take up to
half of the album cover at the bottom.

Gatefold--An album cover, EP cover or Picture sleeve that opens up like a
gate.  Sometimes has records that fit in both open ends.

Vinyl Junkie--A record collector that has the collecting fever so bad that
nothing else really matters.  He plans his vacations around looking for
records.  He spends his weekends going to the usual swap meets, garage
sales and record meets.  He spends hours on the phone with fellow record
collectors.

Lunched--A term used by the old time R & B collectors to denote a record
that is so beat up that it has no redeeming value.

Break-in record--A record that usually has a story line and has a lot of
segments of different records mixed in.  In most cases the records used are
current of that time period.

Answer record--A record that is usually a response to another record,
usually a hit.  This is usually done by a different artist, not by the
original artist.  Examples:  "Duke of Earl"---"Duchess of Earl";  "Mother
in-law"---"Son in-law"; "Oh Carol"--"Oh Neil" and so on.

Bootleg--An illegal pressing of a record that was recorded at a concert and
does not have the band or record company's permission to do so. Can also be
used to describe illegally pressed music from a company's vaults that was
acquired without the record company's permission. The term was also used
with 50s and 60s 45 rpm collectors as exact reproduction and forgery.

Counterfeit--also known as bootleg, also known as a repro--This is a record
that was illegally remade to look and sound like the original issue.  This
is usually done by making a tape of a regular pressing of an original copy
of one of the records and then pressing this up on vinyl.  Most of these
types are made up to look exactly like the original.

Pirate--Same as a counterfeit.  This term is used mostly in Europe.


PART TWO:  ABBREVIATIONS

These are abbreviations that are usually used in shorthand notations for
certain terms on auction and for sale lists.

BB hole--A small hole that looks like a bb hole, that denotes a
non-returnable record.  If there is a record and cover involved it usually
is through both.  Sometimes the term CO or cutout is used for the same
thing.

CC--Cut corner.  One corner of the cover of an LP or picture sleeve has a
45-degree corner cut to denote that a record cannot be returned for credit.
Again, can be called a cutout.

C&W--Country and Western

CVR/REC--This is a designation to show the grade of a record and cover
together.  This is for Albums, 45s and pic sleeves,  EPs and covers,
Compact 33s and covers.  The general useage is for Cover first and then the
record. An ad without the designation, that has two grades, one for a cover
and and one for a record, should have the default as CVR/REC.

EP--Extended Play. Usually a 7 inch 45 record with 2 or 3 cuts per side.
There are also 12" inch EPs with 2 or 3 cuts per side and there are also 7
inch copmact 33 EPs.

E.P.--Shorthand for Elvis Presley.

FOC---Fold out cover.  Another way to show a gatefold cover.

FS:---For sale.  The preferred beginning of a header in
rec.music.marketplace.vinyl  when listing an item or items for sale.

G/F--Gatefold (Usually with LPs and double EPs)

LP--Long Play--Usually used for 10" and 12"  33 1/3 record albums.

M/S--Mono/stereo.  usually used from the late 60s on to denote a promo 45
that had the same song on both sides but mono on one side and stereo on the
other.

N/R--Non returnable.  Some companies most notably stamped their 45s and
albums with N/R to show records that could not be returned for credit. The
most famous of these were on  Parkway/Cameo 45s and LPs. These records with
those designations usually showed up at over stock and cutout sales at
discount stores such as:  Woolworth's, Thrifty Drug, Zody's, SS Kresge,
K-mart and Akron.

Promo-- Promotional.  Can also be designated as DJ, Disc jockey, Audition,
Not for sale, Preview copy, Demo, Demonstration copy.  These were records
that the labels are usually a different color than the regular issue and
have these designations to show that these records were free to DJs, radio
stations, record reviewers and the like and that they cannot be returned
for credit. These designations are part of the label from the factory or
pressing plant.  Most promos are of the white label variety.  But some
companies had different colors.  For example:
Coral---Blue and Yellow
Decca--Pink and for a short time green
Brunswick---yellow
Capitol--blueish green in the mid 60s

PS, pic/slv--Picture sleeve, usually in conjunction with 45s.

R-A-B--Rock-a-billy

R&B--Rhythm and blues

RI--Reissue

R 'n' R--Rock and Roll

RW---Ring wear, usually referring to picture sleeves, album and EP covers.

S or ST--A stereo issue

SCR---A scratch on the record

SCU--A scuff on the record.  Scuffs are usually cosmetic and usually don't
cause noised on the record.

SLT/WRP---A small warp that usually doesn't cause any problems with record
play but is noticeable when the record is spinning.

SLV---Sleeve.  Usually used in conjunction with PIC, as in Picture sleeve.
and also be used with a title sleeve and now with a record company's stock
logo sleeve.

SM---Saw mark.  Another method record companies used to show a cut out.

SOC--Sticker on cover.  Also used for a tag

SOBC--Sticker on back cover.  Also used for a tag

SOL--Sticker on label.  Also used for a tag

SPLT/SM or SM/SPLIT--Split seam or seam split.  Is sometimes used in
conjunction with % to indicate how much of a seam split.

SS--Still sealed--used with factory sealed records.

Stamped promo--These were copies of a record that were issued with the
regular stock label but had "promo" or such designation stamped on the
label after the fact.

TOBC--Tear on back cover

TOC--Tear on cover

TOL--Tear on label

TAPE/OBC--Tape on back cove

TAPE/OC--Tape on cover

TAPE/OL--Tape on label

TS---Taped seams.  Usually meaning a tape repair of a seam split

WLP--White label promo.  The most common designation for a promo record.

WOC--Writing on cover

WOBC---Writing on back cover

WOL--Writing on label

WSOBC--Water stain on back cover

WSOC--Water stain on cover

WSOL--Water stain on label

WRP--Bigger than a SLT/WRP and can cause the needle to jump on light
tracking machines or just plain looks bad as the record is spinning.

WTB:---Wanted to buy.  The preferred beginning of a header when looking for
items to buy in rec.music.marketplace.vinyl

WTD:---Wanted.  The beginning of a header in rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
that shows an item is wanted.  It can mean that item is to be purchased or
traded for.

2P, 3P etc--Second pressing, third pressing and so on.

%CT--Shows the percentage of a torn album cover, picture cover or E.P.
cover.

%LT--For a Label tear, and showing how much of the total in percentage of
the label that is torn.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       This document is Copyright 1996 by Norm Katuna
 Permission is granted to download/print out/redistribute/establish WWW
links to this file.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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