Debunking Christianity
Part VII

Responses:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
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19
20

Dialogue
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - 06/20/02
    AP: As some one who appears to proport intellectuallism, criticing a book you've never read is inconsistent with your position.
  1. Vj ~ Intellectualism without reasoning is just as bad as Christianity, it is the reason why you are brain dead. When reasoning has become even 10% of intellectualism one need not read the whole Bible to criticize it’s fault.

    AP: That’s a ridiculous statement. You have all of the facts wrong. How can you claim to be reasoning without the facts?

  2. Vj ~ The question is, how would you know if your facts are really facts if you know nothing of the faith that contradicts them?

    AP: These are not sound and valid divine actions of righteous people and God Your right here, they are not the actions of God. They are the actions of fallen mankind.

  3. Your God is just as guilty since he too was involve in senual pleasure (Sarah, Mary) and murder (the flood, Sodam, first born of Eygpt). I can understand man falling nearing the end of creation, but it is a complete failure of god to let it happen in the very beginning.

    AP: None of the above mentioned men were Christians, all are from the old testament. And all suffered for the actions mentioned above. The Bible says a man reaps what he sows, all of them did.

  4. Vj ~ Now, it wouldn't matter would it, since judgement day is yet to come where they can repent and go straight to heaven. Also, if a man reaps what he sows, then there can be no forgiveness of sins for anyone. And finally, if they weren't Christians, it is not their fault, since your god doesn't seem that he can do anything right. Who knows, since Christ is coming again, perhaps his mission will be to undo what he already did.

    AP: The Bible doesn't say celebacy is part of salvation. Again you should read the Bible before attempting to critisize it. Celebacy is something the Catholic religion has come up with, and it is not for salvation but an attempt to remove distractions from the priests service to God. Again, though it isn't Biblical.

  5. Vj ~ I know what the Bible says, it is you who have missed the point. The Bible doesn't seem to be doing a good job in harmonizing the differnt sects of Christianity. It is not only due to the ignorance of the people who read it but the irrationalities of the Bible itself. I mean, what is it "an eye for an eye" or "turn the left cheek", or does "a man reap what he sows" when he can be forgiven?

    AP: Asking questions is not blasphemy. God wants you to seek Him out, asking questions, etc.

  6. Vj ~ I have never seen a question and answer period on any televised Christian broadcast, if it is, it is among Christians themselves and what good is that when they are all brain dead?

    AP: What is irrational about any of these "dogmas "? Tell me, by what means does a human sperm and egg begin to divide and begin creating a human? If God designed the human DNA why couldn't He set in motion by itself. Also, God performeda greater miracle in creating Adam. He didn't even use a woman's egg. If God made man out of the dust , why couldn't he bring a body back to life? The word Redemtion means the act of redeemig. Redeeming means to win back. Jesus won back fallen man for God, what's irrational?

  7. Vj ~ You mean fallen man who knew of Christ, but what of those in regions who never heard of him? Go the next step and check out the five tests of true religion and you won't have to ask why the dogmas are all false.

    AP: God has given His divine guidence, He warns men of the trouble they will encounter if they reject Him.

  8. Vj ~ Perhaps he did, but not from the very beginning. Perhaps He would have no cause to flood the whole world or Abraham would not have committed adultery or Cain and Moses, murder, if he had revealed the ten commandments in the very beginning. But when even those who haven’t rejected him, the ailing Pope (Parkinson’s), Billy Graham (prostrate cancer), Pastor John Wesley (stroke) are encountering a lot trouble, it must be held as a good sign that the god and his religion is false.

    Vj ~ "If there is a God who has created heaven and earth, it will be unjust on His part if He deprived millions of souls born before Moses, of His divine knowledge." Prof. MaxMuller.
    AP: The Bible says in 1 Peter that Jesus preached the Gospel to those in captivity (hell) during the three days His body was in the tomb and let many to freedom. Also, God had direct contact with many people before His giving of the law to Moses, i.e Adam, Peleg Etc... This quote isn't accurate.

  9. Vj ~ Then who is left lying in his/her grave awaiting judgement day? Then again if man can be redeemed even in hell, what is the point striving for heaven by abstaining from meat, alcohol, theft, incest, adultery and murder.

    AP: Affictions on this earth come from the greed of man, no one said that Pope could The Bible doesn't say that the Pope will be able to cure mankind's afflictions. In fact the Bible doesn't mention a "Pope" at all.

  10. Vj ~ So why is he travelling the world, blessing all as if he has the power to cure their afflictions. What I am really saying is that, since he is Christ's vicar and he is suffering like a criminal, where is the reward for piety or letting Christ into the heart?

    AP: Again, God heals who He wills, not the Pope. The Bible never speaks of a Pope.

  11. Vj ~ Well then, the question is, where is the will to heal the afflicted Pope? It would have been better if it had spoke of Pope, unless being a Pope is a sin worst than those thieves, pimps, adulterers and murders it embraces as ‘holy’ men.

    AP: Now if I were going to rail against a book, to avoid looking foolish, I'd read the book first. Instead of parroting what you've heard said about Christianity and the Bible, I challenge you to pretend, for a couple hours, that there is a God , ask Him to speak to you, and read the Gospel of John from a New King James Bible. You have nothing to loose, you can always go back to being an atheist.

  12. Vj ~ It seems it is you who must do some reading since I am no longer an atheist. But it is only through atheism one can begin to ingrain the proper reasoning habits to ascertain truth.
Dialogue 2
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In reply to Andrew Parsons-06/23/02
    AP: VJ, please tell me what faith contradicts the facts of the Bible.
  1. Since you are the one coming in defence of the Bible, the onus is on you to find out. There is absolutely nothing I can do to change a fool's mentality, if the fool is determined to remain a fool. People like you are already brain-dead and won't abandon ignorance to even reason a little. If you could, you have already investigated by site without partiality.

    AP: Below is proof that the Bible is the Word of God.

  2. Vj ~ Well the Muslims or Hindus can quote their respective book as you have done and proclaim it the word of God also. But what does that prove? If you are right so are they and if they are wrong then so are you.

    AP: Peter, in verse 21 states that man did not write the Bible himself, but it was written by holy men under that guidence of the Holy Spirit. How can we be sure? Because man can not declare future events before they happen. With that in mind let's look at Isaiah 53:3-9;

  3. Vj ~ Hinduism is the oldest religion in the world, it would serve you well to learn where it originated from.

    AP: There is know doubt that the prophet Isaiah is writing about Jesus' life, death, and purpose for coming to earth. That is, to shed His blood for Vj's sins, my sins and the whole world's sins. Isaiah wrote his book 700 years before Jesus was born. For years sceptics stated that this book must have been written after Jesus was born, that it was to accurate of His life. Thay said this until the Dead Sea scrolls were found at Quaram, in which was found a copy of the book of Isaiah written 200 years before Jesus' birth. No other religious "Holy Book" declares future events, not one! That's because of this scripture:

  4. Vj ~ It is a known fact that before and during Jesus time followers of the Bible could only have counted up to 9, until India gave the rest of the world 0, so how could any one tell the age of Adam or a book. And only until 500 years ago when Columbus discovered the New world Christians knew the earth was not flat. So a book void of science of mathematics and cosmology cannot be a revealed book or word of God.

    AP: The Bible is the Word of the one true and Living God. I'm not talhking about a religion Vj, I'm telling you it is possible to have a relationship with God the creator. How? Through faith in Jesus.

  5. God is omiscient and does not need to make changes because of man's ineptitude. Faith in Jesus for salvation is totally absurd, since there were many in remote regions who never heard of him.

    AP: Romans 10:13 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. He builds the bridge between man and God.

  6. Vj ~ More likely a bridge to hell (pain and misery). God is omnipotent and is never in need of a mediator to do His work.

    AP: 1 Tim 2:5-6 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Vj, you are a sinner, I am a sinner, the whole world has fallen short of the glory of God.

  7. So why sit on your lazy ass and moan and groan about it? Do something about it, as I have, by seeking true knowledge to rise to God's glory. If we need to be successful in life we must study hard and with a lot of effort, no university will just hand us a degree because we have failed (fallen). The same with God.

    AP: You know in your heart of heart that this is true. But there is forgivness of sins.

  8. Vj ~ This much I know is the truth, ignorance is the cause of lawlessness, and if ignorant people are easily forgiven then there will be chaos even in heaven also.

    AP: God will wipe your slate clean Vj. Tell me, what religion can do that for you? None can.

  9. Vj ~ Millions of Hindu have their sins completely washed away by a mere dip in the river Ganges, tell me, what other religion can do that?

    AP: If you say the Hindus are idiots then what does that make you? Man attempts to establish his own righteousness by following a set of rules, but he can't stick to them. The best man can do is manipulate his behaviour, act pious. But what about your motives, what about your thoughts? Only God can change man's heart.

  10. Vj ~ No, it is man who must make the change necessary with the correct knowledge and practice. God won't do anything for us unless we first make the effort through His instructions.

    AP: Vj, give up trying a make your own way to God. God has made the way already. We run around the woods trying to find Him, but He has already cut the path for us. You just need to get on the path. Accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, acknowledge His shed blood for the remission of your sins, and you Vj will be a knew creation, ready to fulfill the Lord's will for your life. Vj, Jesus loves you and I love you...and I haven't even met you.

  11. Vj ~ There is no eternal salvation or punishment, for what is finite (created) must perish. It is a law (immutable) which even God cannot breach. When the soul and heaven are both finite entities how can Christians enjoy eternal heaven? I have not made up my own way, but have found a way that is not only in harmony with reason and science, but conforms with natural laws. Again there is no such thing as resurrection of the dead, dead means dead, gone forever. Christ isn't coming again, it will be a breach to an All-perfect God's laws, which Christians are totally ignorant of, for the dead to come back to life.

    AP: Vj, John 3:16 16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (NKJ)

  12. Vj ~ This verse, John, Jesus, you and your god are all ignorant. Whatever is finite (the created soul) must perish, it is a law. Eternal means that which has no beginning and no end. In otherwords, for something to be everlasting it must have no beginning. According to Christianity only God is without a beginning and everthing else, the Bible, the soul, heaven and earth were all created, have a beginning. Get it lamebrain!
Dialogue 3
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Friday, June 21, 2002
    Vj ~ Your God is just as guilty since he too was involve in sensual pleasure (Sarah, Mary) and murder (the flood, Sodom, first born of Egypt). I can understand man falling nearing the end of creation, but it is a complete failure of god to let it happen in the very beginning.
    AP: Abraham impregnated Sarah not God, you haven’t read your Bible. Gen 21:2 says, “For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.”
  1. Vj ~Now, it wouldn't matter would it, since judgment day is yet to come where they can repent and go straight to heaven.

    God didn’t impregnate Mary either, His caused Jesus to grow in her, without relations, again you haven’t read it. Luke 1:35 says, “ And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” Now it wouldn’t be a virgin birth if she had relations with God, would it? Again, you’re not reasoning.

  2. Vj ~ It is only your argument based on the irrational Bible, how could it hold good before those who are well acquainted with the functions of natural laws? God is omnipotent and is the efficient cause and has no need for son or daughter. It would have been more sensible to adopt one rather than breaching His laws.

    AP: Vj, The Greek word "aioonion", which John uses here can mean:
    1. Without beginning or end, eternal
    2. Without beginning
    3. Without end, everlasting.

  3. Vj ~ To be honest with you, you are the first Christian to respond to my comments on the word "eternal" in its application to everlasting heaven or hell. Not that it is an intelligent one but still I am not puzzled by the response since I know it could not have been courage but very densed stupidity. None of the three fits the criterium of eternity with a "beginning". Even if the last one "without end" is considered everlasting it would imply a beginning as the soul, heaven and earth all had a beginning according to the Bible, which will definitely contradict No. 1 and No. 2.

    AP: You are right God is the only eternal one. John is not saying we are eternal like God (definition 1), but that we can have life without end (definition 3). That is why it is translated everlasting and not eternal in John 3:16.

  4. Vj ~ Now if we must conclude that the law work both ways where what has a beginning can become eternal, then what has no beginning can also perish, and that will include the Christian god also which leaves you and John complete idiots. Then again finite actions cannot reap eternal rewards. What a man sow that only will he reap nothing more and nothing less. Our system of justice works the same way, a man who murdered and one who stole a loaf bread are not both punished for life. Who are the ones that are most likely to breach our laws, a wise man or an ignorant man? It can never be a wise man, and so God being All-wise can never breach natural laws.

    AP:Your law that says, because we were created we can not have everlasting life, is erroneous. God's law says we can. Vj's law says we can't. I wonder who's correct?

  5. Vj ~ It is not my law, look around you all things finite (created, a house, a car, a tree, a human being) decay or die. As long as there is birth there is death, it is a law, therefore resurrection of the dead is a breach to this law and if the rapture means that those a live will not die, but be taken up to heaven alive, it is also a breach to this law. It is not God's laws, because they weren't created, it is nature's laws and they are eternal but because He is always deemed All-wise and All-perfect, He can never breach these laws. If they are, it is because idiots like you and John don't know the true nature, attributes and characteristics of God and the laws (natural) He operates in.

    AP: There is a physical law that says matter and energy can't be destroyed, only converted.

  6. Vj ~ Here you are putting your foot in your mouth by using science to authenticate your dogma.Where in the Bible does it teach of physical law, matter and energy? If they can or cannot be destroyed how would those propagating "physical law" know if it is true when they, like those idiots who wrote the Bible, don't know the origin of "matter and energy"?

    AP: You say that everything that is created is finite. That is wrong. Nothing when it dies ceases to exist.

  7. Vj ~ If nothing never ceases to exist, how come the Bible refer to creation "In the beginning". There can be no beginning if nothing ceases to exist. Whatever is created is finite and must die, we see it everyday in our lives unless you, John and all Christians are living on another planet. Finite means with a beginning and an end and infinite means beginningless and unending. Can you not get that lamebrain?

    AP: All things continue in another form.

  8. Vj ~ So didn't one form "cease to exist" to give rise to another form. And if this is the case, where did it all started? You are also contradictiing your own Bible which never spoke of any past creation (form) or future ones.

    AP: The Bible says that God created all things out of previously non-existing material.

  9. Vj ~ You are an idiot beyond all idiots and sitting firmly on your brains. If the material is non-existing, how could it be used to create anything? Weren't these your own words " matter and energy can't be destroyed, only converted". So again, is it existing or non-existing?

    AP: Nothing can be uncreated unless God does it, because He called it into existence. Your law is wrong.

  10. Vj ~ It is only wrong because you are a brainless twit. The only things that are not uncreated are Christians, sounds absurd but it is they who must live with it.
    God is Creator, Sustainer and Destroyer. He does not have to make a choice everyday or age of what must be created or be uncreated, all are subjected to natural laws. Everything is set in motion at the beginning of every creation and that is all He does and because He is Omniscient and Omnipotent He knows that it is perfect through out creation and never have the cause to intervene or to babysit idiots like you, John, Jesus and all those hypocrites (Pat Roberston, Benny Hinn, John Hegee, Jerry Falwell, Joyce Meyers, etc.) who openly and daily proclaimed that God spoke to them.
    Our galaxy is but like a grain of sand in the vase infinite space of galaxies (beyond counting). To intervene in the personal lives of every or any human being you would have to divide that single grain of sand by 6 billion and that does not include the trillions of other souls in animals and vegetation that are actively serving creation also.
    You idiots limit your god to only this planet and even to that he is incapable of relieving Christians of their daily pain and misery.

    AP: Remember, Jesus died for the forgiveness of Vj's sins,

  11. Vj ~ It wouldn't matter what he died for, if "he is way, life and the truth" and only through him salvation is guaranteed, then I am obviously not going to your heaven. Who in their right sense would want to go to a place where murderers, adulterers, rapists and liars dwell among the 'righteous'? It will be the same as earth, because where there is ignorance there is bound to be lawlessness.
Dialogue 4
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Thursday, June 27, 2002
    AP: They are different meanings associated with the same word, by definition that means they don't have to agree. Example: the word dumb can mean 1.someone who can't speak. It can also mean 2.someone who is not smart. That doesn't mean that everyone who is not smart is also unable to speak. You logic is faulty. The Greek word can mean three different and independent things: 1 Without beginning or end, eternal 2. Without beginning 3. Without end, everlasting. God is the first def. man is the last def. It is simple Vj.
  1. Vj ~ I do not expect an idiot to do better at explaining what is and not eternal. The word "Eternal" simply does not have two opposing meanings and if it does it is made to be so by idiots to support an irrational dogma. You have not studied the Vedic religion so you won't have an idea of what reasoning ought to be. You continue to harp on what the Bible says, don't you think I am capable of quoting the Vedas also? It is not what the books alone says, but how well we use our reasoning power to ascertain truth.

    Vj ~ Now if we must conclude that the law work both ways where what has a beginning can become eternal, then what has no beginning can also perish,
    AP: That is not a sound conclusion. God is not subject to the same laws as man. God was around before nature and its laws..that means He was and is not subject to them.

  2. Vj ~ And who says good reasoning is ever sound to an idiot. Just as the most powerful man on earth (the President of the USA) is not above the laws of the land so is God, not above His laws. Think a little idiot, what would be His purpose to exist before nature and creation. God is eternal so is nature and creation and dissolution. It is the only way He can excercise His creative energy eternally. God is subjected to His laws, otherwise design, purpose, law and order would have been grossly affected. It is the reason you idiots believe that man can be God, the dead can be resurrected and that the finite can become infinite..

    Vj ~ Who are the ones that are most likely to breach our laws, a wise man or an ignorant man? It can never be a wise man, and so God being All-wise can never breach natural laws
    AP: This logic is faulty. God and man are not subject to the same Laws. Is God subject to gravity? Is God subject to time? Is God subject to space? Of course not, He made them. Is man's physical body subject to time, space and gravity? Yes. Is man's soul subject to these? No. That is where your logic fails. Man is not just physical, he is body, soul and spirit. His body is subject to natural laws but his soul and spirit aren't. Get it?

  3. Vj ~ It is your brains that are faulty. God is subjected to His laws and man is subjected to both man and God's (natural) laws. Your God (Jesus) was subjected to gravity, to time and to space and if he created them, out of what were they created of? A man's soul is subject to time, space and gravity because the soul is nothing without the man (body). Whatever pain and happiness affects us, it is the soul that feels the discomfort or joy.

    AP: Wrong Vj, look at the seed. It dies yet comes back to life. You don't know your biology.

  4. Vj ~ I don't know what seed you are looking at, perhaps your own balls, but if seeds come to life, it simply means they weren't dead in the first place. Similarly, if a human was thought to be resurrected, the body didn't die.

    AP: God made nature and all the existing laws. Logic would conclude then that He must exist outside of the laws He created since they have a beginning and he doesn't, He made them so He was around before nature and its laws. You are limiting God by saying He is subject to the Laws He created. Your logic is flawed again.

  5. Vj ~ Then it stands that if they are eternal as Him, He is not outside of the laws. He is All-perfect where could He go wrong if He is subjected these laws. You are brainless twit and have no idea of what logic is, so how would you know what logic is flawed or not? To know what is good, witnessing evil is necessary and to know if your truth holds, you will have to investigate my faith. That you haven't done, so you are not in a position to know what is good, evil, truth or untruth.

    Vj ~ Here you are putting your foot in your mouth by using science to authenticate your dogma.Where in the Bible does it teach of physical law, matter and energy? If they can or cannot be destroyed how would those propagating "physical law" know if it is true when they, like those idiots who wrote the Bible, don't know the origin of "matter and energy"?
    AP: Sorry Vj, you're wrong again.

  6. Vj ~ You didn't anwer the question so how could I be wrong?

    AP: Also, the Bibe is full of science. Here are some examples for you:

  7. Vj ~ Science was born long before your biblical creation (6,000 years), to be exact in this creation it is almost 4 million years old. The pyramids of Eygpt was built on the science of the remnant of the ancient Vedic civilization. Yes, and they could have counted above 0 then, but it is the rest of the world including your holy land where civilization fell to a savage state, that they invented all sorts of false worship which led to barbarism and tyranny. All sciences, ethics and morals, the source is India (Vedas).

    AP: Which reminds me, you said people in Jesus' time couldn't count past 9 because they didn't have 0, that is wrong. They didn't have negative numbers. But they had numbers greater then 9. Didn't they stack more then 9 granite blocks on top of each other in constructing the Pyramids, and you think they didn't have a symbol for the numbers associated with those blocks past 9? You'd better rethink that totally absurd comment.

  8. I am saying the source of science is India.
    "We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein
Dialogue 5
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Friday June 28th, 2002
    AP: Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. See what trouble you get into whenyou critsize a Book that you have not read.
  1. Vj ~ All that you have written are hogwash. If it was that scientific how come it couldn't educate Christians to the fact of a spherical planet and plurality of the worlds. Why is it that science only took hold in the Western world only less than a century ago? All that you have quoted, you somehow try to measure in some kind of away as equivalent to the science that has now been rediscovered, but the bible could not have been the source of any science since it contradicts science or worst cannot give the age of creation.

    AP: You say that everything that is created is finite. That is wrong. Nothing when it dies ceases to exist.

  2. Vj ~ If nothing never ceases to exist, how come the Bible refer to creation "In the beginning". There can be no beginning if nothing ceases to exist.

    AP: This is wrong also. I as told you God made all thing out of material that didn't already exist. Meaning He made the material and created with it. That is what the Bible teaches. When he made man, He made him in His image, with an everlasting soul. Not eternal, but everlasting, there is a difference.

  3. Vj ~ How could anyone create something out of nothing. Magicians do that, they bring something out of nothing, perhaps your god is a magician also. I will certainly not put my faith and my soul in magic. If he made the material, out of what I asked? Why not try to investigate what other religions teach also, how else would you know that what the bible teaches is right or wrong? You are an idiot, if he created the souls then they should have been equal in all conditions, why some suffer and some don't; why some rich and some poor; why some beautiful and some ugly, why some white and some black? I see an injustice here. Besides if an image exists before the creation of man, then it would have to be God's image, which meant that your God was a humanbeing and likewise will be subjected to bondage (pain and suffering)

    Vj ~ Whatever is created is finite and must die,
    AP: Finally you say something accurate.

  4. Vj ~ Where is your brains man, in your backside? Didn't you just say, that your god created the soul, why is it an exception?

    AP: Yes everything that is physically alive will die. But man is not just a physical being, he has an everlasting soul. God made him that way, and your law that says God can't do that is wrong. God isn't subject in His creating to the laws that He Himself created, that wouldn't make sense if He were. God was around before the laws of nature, get it?

  5. Vj ~ It seems to me that because an idiot needs an excuse to get to heaven, he makes his own rules. You should try reading something else besides the bible, otherwise you will remain the idiot you are. If a man's soul is everlasting, it simply means that it was never created. God was around before the laws of nature in your book but not mine. What was your god doing from all eternity to now (before this creation), having a nap or on vacation? If you don't know what was before this creation how is it possible for you to know that God was around before the laws of nature? Where in the bible does it teach of natural laws?

    AP: Tell me Vj, where does your body go went it is no longer alive? Do the elements that you are made of, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen...do they cease to exist? They continue. Your law doesn't make sense.

  6. Vj ~ How can it make sense to an idiot who doesn't know that the elements are also created so even when my body return to them, they will also cease to exist at sometime.?

    AP: Also, look at a seed. It is alive when it is in the tree. It falls to the ground, dries out and dies. Yet with water and soil it comes back to life and grows into another tree. All that has a beginning does not have to perish or end. Again your law is wrong.

  7. Vj ~ Life will continue as the planet is alive but when it dies everything else with it dies. It means creation (universe) comes to an end because it is also finite. So everything does perish. A tree will continue to produce seeds, humans and all living creatures will continue to procreate, matter will continue to manifest into new spheres, etc. but all being finite will cease to exist. It is a law. Your Christ, a human like everyone else came, died and gone for good, the eternal soul returns in another body to continue his faith of misery, since he did nothing but 'mislead' billions into believing that in his blood lies salvation.

    AP: It all started at the creation. God existed..then he created everthing. That is the beginning. The Bible says that He made eveything (bara in Hebrew) out of previously non-existing material. There is no need for humans to have had a past existence. Your logic is flawed.

  8. Vj ~ God existed eternally, so what sensible person would believe that creation suddenly started 6,000 years ago? There is no such thing as "non-existing material". Wouldn't Christ return infringe on "humans to have had a past existence"? If there is no past existence of the human soul, then why does a child suffer for no fault of his/her own? If sin leads to pain and misery, how does a child sin to suffer?

    AP: The Bible says that God created all things out of previously non-existing material.

  9. Vj ~ You are and idiot beyond all idiots and sitting firmly on your brains. If the material is non-existing, how could it be used to create anything? Weren't these your own words " matter and energy can't be destroyed, only converted". So again, is it existing or non-existing?

    AP: Vj, it is your brain that is not working. My physical body is subject to the laws of nature. When I say that matter and energy cannot be destroyed that applies to you and me, we cannot destroy matter or energy on convert it. But God is not subject to the laws that He made. He created all things from

  10. Vj ~ Whether we can destroy them or not is not the point, the point is, they are finite (created) and will perish. All things created are subjected to the laws of nature, there is absolutely no exception. How can you say what is subjected to natural laws or not when the bible teaches nothing of it? You have showed me the bible's 'scientific' prowess, now it shouldn't be difficult to show me where it deals with the laws of nature.

    AP: nothing. That is He created the material and then created with it. That is why He is called the Creator, and not the converter. He didn't convert matter and energy like you and I can, He created them. Just take a few moments to figure this out.

  11. Vj ~ Why do I need a few moments to think of it when you have the brains of a jackass? It is like I am speaking to a jackass who is not willing to look into any other philosopy even if it is to ascertain his own to be true. Maybe you and all Christians can convert matter, but I surely can't. Perhaps you don't know of what state of matter you are dribbling about?

    AP: Nothing can be uncreated unless God does it, because He called it into existence. Your law is wrong.

  12. Vj ~ It is only wrong because you are a brainless twit. The only things that are not uncreated are Christians, sounds absurd but it is they who must live with it. God is Creator, Sustainer and Destroyer. He does not have to make a choice everyday or age of what must be created or be uncreated, all are subjected to natural laws. Everything is set in motion at the beginning of every creation and that is all He does and because He is Omniscient and Omnipotent He knows that it is perfect through out creation and never have the cause to intervene or to babysit idiots like you, John, Jesus and all those hypocrites (Pat Roberston, Benny Hinn, John Hegee, Jerry Falwell, Joyce Meyers, etc.) who openly and daily proclaimed that God spoke to them.

    AP: This doesn't make any sense Vj. You missed the point. Also, grouping Jesus and Pat Robertson together is foolish. Jesus is divine, Pat Robertson is a man. Man has the potetial to be a hypocrite, like yourself. Jesus can not be a hypocrite.

  13. Vj ~ Again nothing sensible is supposed to make sense to an idiot. To me Jesus' evil deeds are far more enormous than Pat Roberston. It is because of Jesus, he is misleading so many. Jesus may not be a hypocrite since he did not writing anything himself. Perhaps he was complete dunce since other had to do it for him. A hypocrite is one who willfully ignore other philosophies when presented to him/her to promote his/her own as the true path to salvation. Does this not fit you more than me?
Dialogue 6
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Friday June 28th, 2002
    Vj ~ Our galaxy is but like a grain of sand in the vase infinite space of galaxies (beyond counting).
    AP: Have you seen all of these countless galaxies? How on earth do you know that there are an infinite number of galaxies? That is a hypothosis and not a fact.
  1. Vj ~ Did you see Christ or anyone else rise from the dead or Moses or anyone else splitting the seas, or have you seen any angels? so on earth did you know all those things happen? If they are facts because the bible says so, then why is mine not fact because the Vedas said so? This is the problem with Christians they must see to believe making it quite impossible for the blind to get salvation. They cannot use intuition to grasp the enormous power of an Omniscient and Omnipotent God and His control of the vast infinite space. Do you think He would create only our galaxy in this part of space and left the rest void?

    Vj ~ To intervene in the personal lives of every or any human being you would have to divide that single grain of sand by 6 billion and that does not include the trillions of other souls in animals and vegetation
    AP: Animals and plants don't have souls.

  2. Vj ~ Is that what the Bible taught you? Isn't the soul the life of a being? When your god gave life to man didn't he had to first create the soul and breathe it in his nostrils? Animals, birds, insects and plants come into being, live and die like humans. Tell me, if they don't have a soul how they got life and why do they die? The truth is, it is man's inaction (worship of false god) that lead their souls to the misery of lower births as animals and vegetation. In fact, the more of pigs you eat, the more the chances of you being pigs to be slaughtered over and over. The pain is living in enormous fear because animals have instinct and they can smell death many times over, before they die.

    Vj ~ that are actively serving creation also. You idiots limit your god to only this planet and even to that he is incapable of relieving Christians of their daily pain and misery.
    AP: God doesn't promise relief from pain on this earth. We went over this already.

  3. Vj ~ Sure we went over this already, but you have got so much shit in your brains that nothing sensible or good seems to be penetrating it. God gave us instructions on how to free ourselves from pain and misery, but of course, if you chose to follow a false dogma what else do you expect but pain and misery. All those born in misery (low human conditions, animals, birds, insects, vegetation are reincarnated souls of followers of false dogmas, murderers, adulterers, rapists, liars and thieves.

    AP: Jesus suffered and mankind can also. Through suffering a person grows, don't you see that?

  4. Vj ~ Only if it is guided by the correct knowledge. A person must grow in wisdom to know the cause of suffering and also that of happiness. If a man is wealthy he and us must try to understand why wealth was bestowed on him and only a few others and the same idea goes for pain and suffering of the majority.

    AP: Look at your body, how does it grow stronger physically? By exercise. Is there pain associated with this exercise? Of course. Pain is part of growth in mankind. Christians and the Bible don't limit God to anything, He is the all powerful Creator. If He wants to start life on another plantet He can do so, I can't keep Him from doing that. If He wants to have 6 billion thoughts about 6 billion people on 6 billion planets, then He can...that is part of being omnipotent. Nobody is limiting God to anything except you who says He is subject to the Laws He created..that is not logical Vj. Nature and its law have a beginning, the creation, God doesn't He is eternal.

  5. Vj ~ How could he be subjected to something he didn't create? You are the one saying he created these laws, not me. Sure you limit him to this planet to intervene when barren women can reproduce, when it is time to murder thousands, when it is time to split a sea, when it is time to free Hebrew slaves and when it is time to seduce a virgin. These are not actions of an all-powerful God. God is All-bliss, it means He can never abandon His blissful state to get involve in man's personal affairs, especially ones wicked in nature.

    AP: Remember, Jesus died for the forgiveness of Vj's sins,

  6. Vj ~ It wouldn't matter what he died for, if he is way, the truth and only through him salvation is guaranteed, then I am obviously not going to your heaven. Who in their right sense would want to go to a place where murderers, adulterers, rapists and liars dwell among the 'righteous'? It will be the same as earth, because where there is ignorance there is bound to be lawlessness.

    AP: Vj, you can go to heaven, He has made the way for you.

  7. Vj ~ It was made for Christians who slaughter innocent animals to appease the appetite, who murder, commit adultery and incest, who constantly lie and cheat, not a wise vegetarian like me.

    AP: He loves you and shed His blood for your sins.

  8. Vj ~ A man or god who has no love for innocent creatures cannot love. Read about my faith, it is not blind like yours and you may finally come to realized what is love and eventually save your soul from the wrath a false dogma.

    AP: Furthermore, there will not be murderers and rapists and liars in heaven, the Bible says so. Galatians 5:19-21 says, "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

  9. Vj ~ If liars are not allowed in heaven, your god would be the first victim, since he lied through out the bible. Even if they are forgiven, aren't they still guilty of their crimes? Isn't it what a man sow that he will reap, nothing less and nothing more? It is a lie when Christ is the way to salvation, depriving many in remote regions who never heard of him. It is a lie when man is given freewill and god finally decided to end it by flooding the world, destroying the first born of Eygpt, Sodom and 70, 000 Israelites.

    AP: The Bible says those who practice those thing will not be in heaven. However, someone can murder and be forgiven, and never murder again. That person can goes to heaven.

  10. Vj~ The problem is that man can ask for forgiveness even on the day of judgement, which obviously means only a complete idiot with no brains would rather choose eternal fire of hell. My bet is all, if not most, will be in heaven with you. Good luck.

    AP: The Bibledoes say that those who reject Jesus will go to Hell..you are choosing to go there Vj, but you don't have to go there.

  11. Vj ~ I do not have to worry, it is only the bible, the book of hypocrites, addulterers, muderers and cheats, that said it.

    AP: Except Jesus as you savior and He will give you everlastinglife.

  12. Vj ~ He couldn't save himself, lamebrain - " father why has thou forsaken me", how is he going to save those who accept him?

    AP: This Vedas business will get you nowhere.

  13. Vj ~ How would you know that jackass, if you know nothing of the Vedas? Do you think you could acquire a degree on credits of one subject only? Jesus was not there for the Incas, Mayans or Aztecs, how do they figure in his or your plan of salvation?

    AP: It certainly hasn't helped you with your name calling, not that I mind you calling me lame brain and idiot and such. It does make you sound childish though.

  14. Vj ~ It is good to offend an idiot for his own good. I see nothing wrong in doing that, do you? You see an idiot never know what is good for him/her, so when anything good comes the idiot's way the idiot dismisses it as an insult.

    AP: Jesus spilled His blood so Vj could go to heaven,

  15. Vj ~ I would prefer a heaven where souls don't dwell on with their earthly names, past wicked actions, and meet past, present and future relations. What would you say to Eve who disobeyed god, Cain who killed his brother and screwed his sister, Abraham who seduced his housemaid, Lot who impregnates his two daughters and David and Solomon with their hoards of concubines? Imagine for all eternity you idiots will be going it over and over. Seems quite boring to me. I mean you can't get a Christian to listen to a 1-hour sermon properly how will they for all eternity?
Dialogue 7
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Friday Thursday, June 28, 2002
    AP: John 3:16-18 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
  1. Vj ~ It is all a lie, God has no son, if he did, then he is a bigot since out of many races his choice was the white race. It shows that he thinks the white man superior in spirituality above all other races since no other race were prophets or messiahs.

    AP: 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

  2. Vj ~ How did those (Aztecs, Mayan and Incas, etc.) in remote regions who never heard of him, believe in him so as not to be condemned? Your God is unjust since he has deprived many of his son who he deemed necessary (a must) to know for salvation

    AP: Jesus loves Vj

  3. Vj ~ It wouldn't matter who he loves, but if a man has no love for his own soul he is completely lost and it is only intellectual reasoning can save it..

    AP: Vj, I have several questions for you

  4. Vj ~ It was what you should have done in the first place instead of babbling like an idiot. Be impartial in your inquires it is for your own good.

    AP:, 1. Is the God you believe in the creator of all things?

  5. Vj ~ He is the Maker of all things finite. There are other things (matter and souls) that are infinite as Him which were never created.

    AP: 2. I'm not offended, as you think, by your cursing and name calling. Is that part of Vedic teaching, to allow filth and childish name calling to proceed from your mouth?

  6. Vj ~ It is the nature of wisdom (truth) to offend fools, it is for your own good. But of course, you will never know this to be true in your state of ignorance.

    AP: The Bible says that what is in your heart comes out of your mouth.

  7. Vj ~ More like what is in the heart comes out of the penis also. (Abraham, Lot, David, Solomon, etc)

    AP: That tells me what is in your heart Vj. Anger and bitterness and filthly language. You need Jesus.Covered by HIs blood,

  8. Vj ~ Believe me, it is not as bloodthirsty as the slaughtering of billions of innocent creature (appease the appetite) and men, women and children (inquisition, crusaders, slavery, etc) in the name of Christ. Why not fix your god's anger and filthy deeds before fixing mine.

    AP: Vj, You need to memorize these scriptures. Regarding your anger expressed towards me.

  9. Vj ~ It is not anger my friend, it is therapy for a ignorance. There is no cure for a fool, and I hope you have not reached that point.

    AP: 16 A wise man fears and departs from evil, but a fool rages and is self-confident.

  10. Vj ~ Makes sense why you (the unwise) are still a Christian (evil)? Even Jesus raged to kill a fig tree, when it bore no fruit. Why would you want to follow such a fool?

    AP: Regarding the filthy language that has come out of your mouth in your last email. I am not offended by this, it only indicates the condition of your "wise vegitarian" heart.

  11. Vj ~ Who cares what the language is, if the desire is to save the soul? If you see filthy language as an impediment to sound reasoning why not abandon the Bible for all the filthy, rotten, vulgar and vile actions of its prophets. After all these men, like their god, did screw left to right, cheat, pimp, lie and murder. I mean what could be filthier when supposedly 'pious' men as Cain screwing his sister, Lot, his two daughters, Abraham, his housemaid, David and Solomon, their hoards of concubines. Don't these men had any shame at all and you are complaining about my language. I really thought it was action that always spoke louder than words.

    AP: Luke 6:45 45 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks."

  12. Vj ~ Very true and this is why the Vedic religion was never guilty of atrocities. It never feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno.

    AP: Regarding your rejection of the true and living God.

  13. Vj ~ You cannot establish your religion to be true or your god, without the impartial investigations of the other religions of the world. So grow up lame-brain and do some inquires.

    AP: Rom 1:20-23 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they (that includes you Vj) are without excuse,

  14. Vj ~ You cannot see His attributes if you are blind (ignorant), idiot. He is Just, Omniscient and All-perfect which means He would never deprive a living soul of any part of His revelation. All religions, except the Vedic religion, have been guilty of portraying Him as unjust by depriving many souls before latter revelations. What is your excuse for this?

    AP: 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

  15. Vj ~ The power of perfect reasoning is essential to know, worship and glorify the one true efficient cause of the Universe. You do not have an iota of reasoning muchless knowing Him.

    AP: 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

  16. Vj ~ Speaks well of Christians, where wisdom is not a necessary criterium for salvation.

    AP: 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man-- and birds and four-footed animals (i.e. , brahma, hunaman, etc.) and creeping things."

  17. Vj ~ You forgot to mention the statue of Mary, who was made a prostitute by your god, Christ, her bastard son (i.e. born out of wedlock and the wooded cross Christians idolized all over the world.
Dialogue 8
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Friday, June 28, 2002
    AP: Vj, I found this on a Vedic webpage. Is this accurate of what the Vedic writings teach, especially the underlined section? The Vedas are the most sacred scriptures of Hinduism. According to tradition, when God creates the worlds, He reveals the Vedas for the welfare of the worlds and when He ends the creation, He takes them back again. Some people say that all human knowledge is available in the Vedas in symbolic form and that the knowledge of all our discoveries and inventions is already contained in the Vedas. It is true that the Vedas are not mere books of some magical chants. They are loaded with spiritual knowledge, which reveals itself to the degree we are spiritually advanced.
  1. Vj ~ Here you go again looking for accuracy of the Vedic religion by quoting from a hindu webpage and not mine, and you get upset with me when I say you have the brains of a jackass?

    AP: John 3:16-18 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

  2. Vj ~ It is all a lie, God has no son, if he did, then he is a bigot since out of many races his choice was the white race. It shows that he thinks the white man superior in spirituality above all other races since no other race were prophets or messiahs.

    AP: Jesus wasn't white, He was Jewish. The Jews came through Abraham. Abraham came from the middle eastern city of Ur of the Chaldes, Iraq today.

  3. Vj ~ And what are the Jews black, South Asian or Chinks? Were Adam and Eve non-white also and Jewish?

    AP: 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

  4. Vj ~ I was hoping that you would give an answer for this, but I see you are good at dodging the bullet. How could your god-Jesus forsake them?

    AP: Man can't save his soul by loving it, only through faith in Jesus.

  5. Vj ~ Then jackass, why was he given an intellect to reason?

    AP: More name calling. There is one truth and I am partial to it.

  6. Vj ~ If "one truth" was not available for all of mankind, including those in remote regions who never heard of the bible, it cannot be truth.

    AP: What is HIs name?

  7. Vj ~ Whatever His name, it was the same from the very beginning and did not change as yours have because of some bastard (Jesus) pretending to be God.

    AP: You are not offending me, I am questioning why your beliefs would condone you speaking as such.

  8. Vj ~ The purpose of speaking such is to convince you to question your own beliefs of supposedly 'pious' prophets screwing their housemaids, sisters and daughters?

    AP: Your words reveal you filthy heart Vj.

  9. Vj ~ They are only words my friend, and it does affect a fool severely. I hope you can move away from your ignorant ways to see the good I am bringing you.

    AP: I can't fix you VJ, only through faith in Jesus can your heart be cleansed.

  10. Vj ~ Even that is not safe, think of those who have got their hearts transplanted, only to start all over again.

    AP: No, it is filthy language, coming from a filthy heart.

  11. Vj ~ It is only filthy to an idiot who does not know any better. Perhaps you are an adulterer and one having sex with your daughters too, the reason why you defend those hypocrites of the bible.

    AP: What about Brahma? Attributed for creating the universe, yet he made for himself 5 heads so he could keep his eyes always on his wife. Is that what you worship as God? These men you mention all failed in their lives, that is expected, they are of a fallen nature. But your religion sees God as possessing these charateristics. Whose not seeing sound reasoning here VJ?

  12. Vj ~ Well put, but before you go about poking holes in Hinduism, make sure yours don't have any.

    Vj ~ I thought it was "action that speaks louder than words".
    AP: That is not a phrase out of the Bible.

  13. Vj ~ I agree with you, any thing sensible as that would be another contradiction to the Bible.
Dialogue 9
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In reply Andrew Parsons - Saturday June 29th 2002
    AP: That is rediculous logic. If I know the truth, I don't have to investigate every false religion to prove that it is true. You certainly have not investigated the Bible.
  1. Vj ~ Well if you are content with your truth, what are you doing here? Only one with jackass brain will try to convince me of truth without even knowing anything about my faith. In otherwords lamebrain, don't tell me what's good about your faith, tell me what is wrong with mine!

    AP: It says being understood by the things He has made, stars, planets, nature, not seeing directly the invisible attributes. The Bible says that God comes to all mankind. He has not deprived anyone of the opportunity for salvation. Man either believes or rejects, you've rejected, I've accepted.

  2. Vj ~ If Christ is the truth, life and the way and only through him salvation is possible, how can you say that the Incas and Mayans were not deprived. How could they have believed or reject what they never heard of? Think man, how brainless can you be?

    AP: Your heart is darkened, I don't expect you to understand what I am saying.

  3. Vj ~ Even worst, your brain is all shit, I don't expect anything sensible to enter it either.

    AP: No,you missed the point. You have become the fool, you know the power of God by His creation, yet you don't worship Him.

  4. Vj ~ That's ok too, if I am fool I am qualified for your heaven. Any fool can fool your god, here check it out

    AP: Mary is idolized by the Catholic Religion, she is not revered in the Bible.

  5. Vj ~ The word "Hindu" is not in the Vedas either, but yet you quote Hinduism. Aren't Roman Catholics christians also? It shows that the Bible is not about one truth, otherwise so many sects would not have been born out of it.

    AP: That is an invetion of man.

  6. Vj~ The whole bible is an invention of man since it contains historical events of man. There are no historical references in the Vedas because they are eternal and are revealed in all creations, past, present and the future.

    AP: Jesus is God in the flesh so He can be worshipped as God.

  7. Vj ~ So when the Hindus make the same claim of their gods in flesh, why do you see it as false?

    AP: Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born, He was not a bastard.

  8. Vj ~ Mary conceived out of wedlock and likewise one born out of wedlock is called a bastard. You are good at finding Greek words, why not check out what a "bastard" is. This clearly shows that even your God did not approve of the sanctity of a wedding based on the Bible that he preferred to be "god in flesh" as a bastard.

    AP: Vj, I have not gotten upset with you yet, even when you call me names.

  9. Vj ~ I hope these "names" are not an impediment to your salvation. You certainly sound that way, that the more I call you name, the more you will be deprived of salvation. If this is not true, then why do you let it bother you so much?

    AP: Also, my brain was in my head when I was born and as far as I know it has never been replaced with one from a donkey.

  10. Vj ~ I really think you should have yours replaced since it seems like even the jackass has better brains than a Christian, since no jackass will ever be offended by name calling.

    AP: I was simply asking if what was said about the Vedic writings above was true?

  11. Vj ~ If you want to know the truth of the Vedas, then take a look at it from Vedic perspective and not that of idol-worshippers (Hindus).
Dialogue 10
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In reply Andrew Parsons - Saturday, June 29, 2002
    Vj ~ "One should always be ready to accept truth and give up untruth."
    AP: You have not been willing to accept the true God of the Bible.
  1. Vj ~ Truth must be in harmony with reasoning and science and in conformity with natural laws. The bible is in contradiction to all three of these criterias.

    Vj ~ "One's dealings should be regulated by love and justice in accordance with the dictates of Dharma."
    AP: Is swearing and name calling what you consider being "regulated by love"? That you are trying to offend me to displell my supposed ignorance is an excuse for you to hide behind and be angry.

  2. Vj ~ And what is your excuse for not investigating my faith? Name calling affects one who is in a state of ignorance, it is done for your own good. You should know by now, that it does not affect me, so there must be something right about my faith.

    Vj ~"One should promote knowledge and dispel ignorance."
    AP: You are not promoting knowledge as you say. You keep saying God has had sex with humans, that is not what the Bible says.

  3. Vj ~ I am promoting knowledge to educate you about natural laws and that God could never breach these laws. There are no such things as angels, resurrection of the dead, miracles and virgin birth. Conception without the reproductive element (sperm of a male) is a breach to the law. It is also a breach to His attribute of Omnipresent and Omnipotent power to take a form. as it would mean he can be localized when he is supposed to be here, there and everywhere. Being embodied he is subjected to bondage pain and misery and this is a breach to his nature of always being in an All-bliss state.

    AP: Abraham didn't commit adultery, the law hadn't been given yet.

  4. Vj ~ If your god had the power to give instructions to man's heart as you earlier said for the Incas and Mayans (those in remote regions) who didn't know of the Bible so that they would know what is wrong (adultery) and right, why couldn't your god also advised Abraham on the same matter? Again, why is adultery only immoral from the time of Moses and not before? And why did this god drove Cain out of the land of his birth as punishment for murdering Abel when the law "thou shalt not kill" was not given yet?

    AP: David did commit great sins, but look at the judgement of God that came upon him

  5. Vj ~ If murder or adultery or both are not great sins, what is shithead?

    AP: God didn't condone what David did, but David repented and was forgiven, yet suffered for the sins he commited.

  6. Vj ~ It seems that even a turkey has better brains that a Christian, if he still suffered what was the purpose of repentence and forgiveness?

    AP: Gen 19:32-33 32 "Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve the lineage of our father.”
    33 So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.."

  7. Vj ~ So why do our system of justice punishes drunk drivers when they don't know what they are doing? They are punished because it is their fault for drinking, so why is it not the same for Lot? Even worst he was a prophet ('wiseman') who was sent to guide the weak and should have known better, the danger of alcohol.

    AP: God created mankind. He gave Adam one command to follow, "don't eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

  8. Vj ~ Why did he create the tree in the first place if it was not for the purpose of man to eat? If Adam disobeyed god, then it is your god's fault and not Adam.

    AP: This was obviously to test man's freewill.

  9. Vj ~ Again you have gone back to your jackass mentality. God has no need to test man, He is All-pervading, He knows all. He is omniscient, He knows the past, present and also the future. He should have known who Adam was before he created him. God is All-pure and He would create one with a pure soul to commune with and if the first humans became wicked, it is not their fault.

    AP: If God desires true love from mankind then mankind had to have been given the ability to chose to love HIm.

  10. Vj ~ God is All-blissful, He has no desires. Desires are for those who happy one moment and unhappy the next, but when one is in a state of bliss as God is, it means nothing, can interrupt that blissful state.

    AP: If man was made like a robot, that has no choice butis programed, then that is not true love. To test man's obedience God gave him the above command. Man broke this command, thus falling in sinnless nature into a sinful nature. All human behavier that you observe from there on out in the Bible is explained by man's sinful nature. There is no perfect human. Even yourself Vj, must acknowledge that you sin.

  11. Vj ~ God did not create evil, it is inherent in matter (the material cause) which is eternal.
    "There is no turpitude in drinking wine, eating flesh or committing adultery for it is the natural way of created beings, but abstinance brings great reward." Manu.
    It is the reason why He gave us instructions on how to attain, by knowledge and practice, purity through wisdom. It is very simple, why would God create evil when He knows that it is evil that destroys the soul?
Dialogue 11
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Saturday June 29th 2002
    AP: Regarding the eating of animals the Bible says that mankind may eat the animals, there is no error there. Genesis 9:1-3 says, 1 So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2 "And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. 3 "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things,
  1. Vj ~ If it is no error, why don't Christians slaughter (sacrifice) the animals on the alter (church) anymore? Again, why does an innocent child becomes so disgusted when they are told that they are eating the very animals they adored in nursery tales? I added the line "Mary got hungry one day and ate the poor little lamb" and even the parents reproached me for doing that.

    AP: even as the green herbs." Vj ~ So why did your stupid god only accepted Abel sacrificed animal and not Cain's herbs? Also in Romans 14:1-4 it says, 1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.

  2. Vj ~ Matters of faith are only disputable when man's faith is weak. And if those wise are not allowed to correct the dispute how are those weak in faith can become strong?

    AP: 2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.

  3. Vj ~ Your bible has got it backwards. It is a faith that allows you to eat everything that is weak since the cause of many diseases is meat related. But a faith that is strong will make a man and his soul healthy by avoiding flesh.

    AP: 3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.

  4. Vj ~ When our planet is in grave danger (endangered species) shouldn't a "a man who eats everything" be held responsible and be looked down upon?

    AP: 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

  5. Vj ~ It seems that your master (god) was also a brainless twit who only lived in the past, he only thought of the present, Noah and his family, and not 6000 years and 6 billion people later.

    AP: You see you are not knowledgeable of the Bible.

  6. Vj ~ If I were, like you, Jesus and the authors of the bible, I would have had the brains of a jackass also.

    AP: You keep stating that the people of the Bible are evil and unrighteous. But the Bible goes further than that. It says that every person who has ever been born since the fall of man has had a sinful nature. That includes you Vj.

  7. Vj ~ If man fell it is not because they disobeyed your god, but because your god was weak and ignorant in the first place to create the devil.

    AP: Even if you follow this "one true religion" that you have, you still have the burden of sin on you.

  8. Vj ~ If I failed in attaining a degree, should I also blame the University? The burden of eliminating future sins is to seek the correct knowledge and follow its instructions (practice), only then can man advance in spirituality to attain perpetual happiness. Apply the same reasoning to your faith. Destiny is referred to our past, which we cannot change, but activity (by seeking the correct knowledge) is superior to destiny. It does not cancel out our past sins but makes us stronger. In otherwords, the stronger we become in facing the pain for our past sins.

    AP: Dipping yourself in the Ganges is not going to wash you. The Bible says that there is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood.

  9. Vj ~ Why don't you investigate my faith before shooting shit? Again I see a greater advantage for those (Hindus) washing in the Ganges since there is no blood of Christ left to wash in. You idiots use wine as blood of christ and drink instead of washing in it. Make sense why Christians are abandoning church for bars and pubs.
Dialogue12
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Saturday June 29th 2002
    AP: Unlike you who has heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ and has rejected it. You should be more concerned with your own fate then the fate of the Mayans, God has presented himself to them.
  1. Vj ~ I rejected it because your god was unjust to deprive the Mayans, a very good reason. Now what is your excuse for rejecting the Vedic religion?

    AP: But to him who knows much, much is required that means you. Further you state examples of evil men throughout history who have committed (in the name of religion not the name of Jesus for He never taught such things) great atrocities, the inquisition, crusades etc.

  2. Vj ~ A book or religion that could not have prevented past atrocities in its name can never prevent future ones to come. It is simple as that. The Bible itself is a history of blood-letting, incest, adultery and lies, how can such a book cure the ills of the world?

    AP: These men were not Christians. They may have said they were but their actions tell us otherwise. The Bible speaks of false believers such as these, but we can know them by the fruit of their lives.

  3. Vj ~ Easier said than to undo, but they all prayed the same and by the same book, you call the Bible. There is no where in the Bible, from the very beginning to the present, where the world ever enjoyed any period of peace and harmony, how can it do it in the end?

    AP: You would be lying if you said that no one following the Vedic teachings has never committed sins. You sin. The Bible says if we break one of God's commands we are guilty of them all. Have you never told a lie? Have you never taken something that didn't belong to you? Have you ever had anger in your heart towards someone? The Bible says that is murder also. Have you Vj never looked upon a woman that was not your wife and lusted after her? That is adultery even if the physical action is not committed.

  4. Vj ~ Hey jackass, I am trying to tell you yes we sin, what else can be expected since we haven't accepted Christ? The greatest or wost of all sins is the worship of a false god. How do you know your god is true, if you can't tell me what's wrong with my God. It is not physical actions alone that sin is accounted for, but intellectually also. A second of worship of a false god is equivalent to a thousand crimes. That bad it is and it is the reason you will not be gifted with human birth again, for a very long time.

    AP: Vedas the origin of all science? That is ridiculous. Ever hear of Sir Isaac Newton? Inventor of calculus, and a Christian?

  5. Vj~ Where did Einstein got this line from or was he an idiot because was not a christian?
    "We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein.
    By the way where in the Bible did the Christian Newton found calculus?

    AP:Tell me, when did the Egyptians get exposed to the Vedas. They built pyramids 5000 years ago, I think they used a little geometry, and static and dynamic mechanics, etc...don't you?

  6. Vj ~ Well shit-brains, had you read my site, you would have found that the Vedas has been revealed to man from his first appearance on the planet about 4,000,000 years ago in this cycle of creation. Don't you think that is long enough to cover the Eygptians of 5000 years ago? The remnant of the ancient Vedic civilization was the beginning of the Eygptian era. When Eygpt fell, it spread to Greece, then to the Romans and then to the Europeans (British) and now the whole world is exposed to it once again.

    AP: Your pride is causing you to make unfounded claims of the Vedas' influence. Tell me, when did the Jews, who had knowledge of metallurgy in Solomon's time (1400BC, 3600years ago) producing brass, read of the Vedas? Saying that the Vedas is God's word because it contains no historial events is not a provable statement. That is a theory.

  7. Vj ~ Very true, it can never be provable to an idiot. As surgery is a necessary pain for cure, so is the Vedas to the ignorant. The initiative is, having the courage to take the surgery (to investigate).
Dialogue 13
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Saturday June 29th 2002
    AP: Yes, Abraham, David and many others have committed this sin, the Bible doesn't try to hide this, but you are guilty of the same sins. They all repented and asked God for forgivness, have you? They were all forgiven, are you?
  1. Vj ~ If all can be forgiven who then is reaping what he/she sows?
    "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Galations 6:7

    AP: That is why Jesus, God who came down to earth in human form, shed His blood for you and me and everyone.

  2. Vj ~ He didn't shed his blood willingly for that purpose "Father why hast thou forsaken me" and besides I really wonder if you idiots have any brains at all, that if Jesus were god, who was he refering to as the "Father" forgive them for they know not what they do"?

    AP: The Bible says that God comes to all mankind, so no one is without excuse. Maybe they don't ever see a Bible, the Mayans, Incas etc... but God speaks to their hearts, and they are held responsible to that.

  3. Vj ~ So what is the necessity for the Bible or Jesus in the first place, if he can speak to everyone's hearts? Here again you have proven yourself, the bible, god Jesus are all liars.
    "I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO ONE comes to the FATHER except through ME." John 14:6". He didn't say "no one" except the Incas and Mayans.
    There are no repentence and forgiveness, if there are, then Christ is a liar - "And then he shall reward every man according to his works." Matt14: 27.

    AP: He has made a way of salvation. It is through faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, who was born of the virgin, suffered and died for our sins, and rose from the dead on the third day to ascend back to heaven. You have heard the gospel you are responsible for what it says, you may continue to reject it or Vj, you may accept it.

  4. Vj ~ I know what the Gospel says it is the reason I know it is false, the dead do not come back to life. It is a law even God can't breach. Salvation must be earned just like acquiring a degree. God is just which simply means a fool (by forgiveness) and a wise man (by strenuous effort) cannot reap the same rewards of heaven.

    AP: One last thing, if you believe God created all things finite, and man is finite. Then God must have created the woman's ovum and the man's sperm. If he made the first man and woman complete with these reproductive tools already in them, why can't you believe that He could cause a baby to grow inside of Mary without having relations with her?

  5. Vj ~ Because of reasoning guided by the correct knowledge and in conformity with natural laws, it is easier for me to believe you are a jackass born in dense ignorance rather than an omniscient and omnipotent God making a jackass of himself. He is all-powerful and does not need a mediator(s) to His work for Him. It is ignorant people who make mockery of God's Nature, attributes, characteristics and His laws and there is no forgiveness for such a sin. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it."

    AP: To say He had to have sex with her is foolish.

  6. Vj ~ From where I am standing in knowledge, it is even more foolish to say a virgin 2000 years ago, could have conceived without sexual intercourse.

    AP: God made the DNA molecule that controls the reproduction of life. He made Jesus to grow in Mary without her having sex with anyone.

  7. Vj ~ He could have done better and created him out of dust like Adam, instead of making a prostitute of an innocent virgin girl.

    AP: To be a bastard, as you called Jesus, you have to have sex outside of wed lock and concieve a baby.

  8. Vj ~ Well since I know it is not possible for God to conduct Himself in such an immoral and stupid way, and Mary was not married, then he (Jesus) was born a bastard, unless you have another meaning for "bastard".

    AP: Jesus' birth was a virgin birth, that means Mary was still a virgin when Jesus came out of her. Anyone who believes that God created all things finite must see that a virgin birth is possible.

  9. Vj ~ All things created are finite and are done in an orderly manner compatible to natural laws. All humans, except those created in the beginning (pure souls deserved to be created), are the product of sexual union, any other way is false. When you are so prejudicially stuck to your irrational bible, the question I ask, is how would you know any better, if you have no intention of investigating philosphical treatise that contradicts your bible..
Dialogue 14
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Tuesday, July 02, 2002
    Vj ~ If I failed in attaining a degree, should I also blame the University?
    AP: This reasoning does not apply to Christianity, it is what you get from the Vedas.
  1. Well shitbrain, if any reasoning at all was applied to Christianity would I or other rational people have contradicted it? The burden of eliminating future sins is to seek the correct knowledge and follow its instructions (practice), only then can man advance in spirituality to attain perpetual happiness. Apply the same reasoning to your faith. Destiny is referred to our past, which we cannot change, but activity (by seeking the correct knowledge) is superior to destiny. It does not cancel out our past sins but makes us stronger. In other word, the wiser we become the more we will enjoy the pain for our past sins.

    AP:I believe that He is the one true and living God and that His Word, the Bible, is His revelation to man. There aren't any inconsistencies in it and you have failed to prove that there are holes in it's teachings. Sorry

  2. Vj ~ If it is just a belief, then you cannot fault other religions as they too are based on belief. It is the not so much the holes in the bible that is the problem, but the bigger holes in your brains and those holes are filled with excrement which is an absolute impediment to rational thinking. Here is the truth about revelation.
    "Revelation is a communication of something which the person to whom the thing is revealed did not know before. For if I have done, a thing, or seen it done, it needs no Revelation to tell me, I have done or seen it done nor enable me to tell it or write. Revelation therefore cannot be applied to anything done upon earth, of which man is himself actor or witness and consequently all the historical part of the Bible which is almost the whole of it, is not within the meaning and compass of the word Revelation and therefore is not the Word of God." Thomas Paine.
    Vj ~ From where I am standing in knowledge, it is even more foolish to say a virgin 2000 years ago, could have conceived without sexual intercourse.
    AP: Whether it was 2000 years ago or today it would certainly be a miracle.
  3. Vj ~ It is a miracle indeed, because it is only fools believe in them. The Hindu God Ganesha (idol) drank milk also a miracle, and if miracles authenticate Christianity, you cannot deny they don't for Hinduism.

    AP: I know this is hard for you to accept because you believe God is subject to natural laws. But think about it for one minute. If God created man and woman and their abilities to procreate, couldn't He make a baby start to grow inside of Mary without having sex with her.

  4. Vj ~ Not at all,it is hard for those who have no knowledge of natural law and its function to ascertain how God operates within it. It is absurd for an All-wise and an All-perfect God to breach His laws and furthermore as I said before, He does not need a mediator to do His work for Him. Do you really think God must do such a stupid thing because idiots like you can go to heaven? I see no other purpose for the bible.

    AP: He didn't have to have sex with someone to produce the first man and woman did He? So why if he made them without sexual intercourse couldn't He make a baby grow inside Mary without sex?

  5. Vj ~ The purest of souls (human beings) are deserved to be created and not born through sexual union. This act is only done in the beginning of creation where there is complete righteousness. They were given instructions and that is all God did for any creation, He being all-perfect have no need to intervene again. God is omniscient and whoever was created could not have become wicked since He knew fully well what He was doing.

    AP: I understand that you believe that when He made the first man and woman that He then had to obey the law of procreation. But that doesn't make sense.

  6. Vj ~ He did not create one man and one woman. He created thousands in the beginning and for a good reason. We do not have any problem with incest. The cause of the physical body was the reproductive element which is derived from food (vegetation) and still is. He did not breach any law by doing so.

    AP: If He wasn't subject to it before why would He be subject to it afterwards.

  7. Vj ~ Your god is brainless because creating one man and one woman brothers and sisters would have had to cohabit, does this not sound ridiculous to you? Perhaps not to a fool, but it certainly does to one with a even little common sense. If he could have created one man and and one woman, I can ask the same question why did he not create many more the same way. Seems to me, a sensible thing to do.

    Vj ~ So what is the necessity for the Bible or Jesus in the first place, if he can speak to everyone's hearts? Again you or the bible or god Jesus is liar. "I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO ONE comes to the FATHER except through ME." John 14:6" . He didn't say "no one" except the Incas and Mayans.
    AP: Jesus' blood paid for all man's sins whether they know it or not.

  8. Vj ~ You have got to be worst than a jackass for making such a stupid comment. Why are you spending all this time to convince me of Christ and his good 'deeds' if my sins are already paid for?

    AP: Remember when I told you

  9. Vj ~ How can I forget, every time you open your mouth you remind me of how much a terrible ass you are.

    AP: that all persons went to hell before Jesus gave himself as a sacrifice. So if you died one day before Jesus' crucifixion, even if you loved God, you went to hell. But in hell there was a side for the righteous and a side for the wicked. The righteous were comforted and the wicked were not. Once Jesus was crucified, for all sins past, present, and future of all peoples, then those with faith in Jesus or those who obeyed their consciences (according to Romans 2) went to heaven and not hell. But, here is the important part, Jesus died for all mankind’s sins, they were all paid for. The Incan or Mayan still needed their sins atoned for even if they never heard of Jesus. If they never hear the Gospel or the Bible, according to Romans 2, they will only be held responsible for obedience to the conscience that God has placed in them. But if Jesus didn't die then even if they obeyed their consciences their sins would be unaccounted for and still their responsibility.

  10. Vj ~ I have ran out of words to describe you Christian imbeciles. All you people do is make your god weaker and weaker, all that he did before Christ were useless, looks more like a total failure where he couldn't help anyone to get to heaven. You mean to tell me that even Moses went to hell. Hell is misery, what good side can it have. You make it looks as if you have trains running from heaven to hell where those who agree or disagree (parole or convicted) can move about either way. So if all those before Christ already went to hell and Christ intervened on his resurrection to have them removed to heaven, then that means that they are exempted from the day of judgement another contradiction to your bible.
Dialogue 15
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Tuesday July 02, 2002
    AP: Here is an outline to help you understand. 1. Wicked person who hears the gospel and rejects it Sins are paid for but they don't accept the gift=hell
  1. Vj ~ When do they have to accept it, judgment day or anytime before?

    AP: 2. Wicked person who hears the Gospel and by faith accepts Jesus as Lord. Sins are paid for and they do accept the gift=heaven

  2. Vj ~ So heaven is for the ignorant also?

    AP: 3. Wicked person on a deserted Island (Incan, Mayan, whoever) never hears the gospel and disobeys his conscience. Sins are paid for but they diobey God even though He witnesses to their consciences=hell

  3. Vj ~ But while god was busy taking on the flesh (becoming Jesus), he was only conscious to the tiime and place he was localized, how could he have been a witness to those (Incas and Mayans) in remote regions thousands of miles away?

    AP: 4. Wicked person on a deserted Island (Incan, Mayan, whoever) never hears the gospel and obeys his conscience. Sins are paid for and they obey God through His witness to their consciences=heaven

  4. Vj ~ It seems to me that all you idiots do, is make up your own rules on who goes to heaven or hell. The worst of it all, is that from all eternity this idiot of a god has only now decided to create some planets and inhabit one with a bunch fools who want to live on live like this idiot god for all eternity. Look at the anger and pain this god went through to set things right without any success so far, except that the blood of another idiot, after another 4000 years of trials and tribulations, is all it takes to make things right . You would think that this god was omniscient and would have known that all this shit was going to take place and decided against creating it in the first place and chose otherwise, to continue enjoying his all-blissful state. Do Christians really know of any other purpose for his creation, except that only Christians are allowed to screw whoever and as many and wine and dine (drink alcohol, eat flesh) and then accept the blood for eternal life?

    AP: If Jesus never died there would be no remission of sins and everyone, good or bad would go to hell, either the righteous compartment or the wicked compartment, but no one could go to heaven. This is all explained in the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke Chapter 16. Look for yourself.

  5. Vj ~ So why did this god made himself such an idiot to create anything else before Christ? Surely, if you claimed him to be omniscient, he would have known that without Christ everything would be useless and not worth the while. It is the first time I heard that there are righteous compartment in hell. Again it sounds everything like a train moving about with compartments.

    AP: So it is true, no one can get to the Father in heaven except through Jesus, whose sacrifice paid for all of our sins.

  6. Vj ~ Hell must be huge since it has to accommodate 4 billion non-christians and their ancestors. I really pity those dead innocent children, maimed, blind, mentally retarded, deaf and dumb, of non-christians whose conscience and heart have not been developed enough to know of a bastard's (Jesus) sacrifice, and has to suffer for all eternity in hell for it. I can't believe Christians call this god merciful and compassionate. However, knowing what a fool you are, you will certainly make up another rule to save them, right?

    AP: Otherwise all sins would still be on everyone's account, and like those before Jesus' death we would all go to hell. That doesn't mean everyone will go to heaven though, you have to accept the gift He is trying to give you, but your sins are already paid for should you accept. It's as if I prepaid for a movie ticket for Vijai, the ticket is paid for, but if you don't show up to the movie theater to use it, you'll miss the movie.

  7. Vj ~ What an analogy? I couldn't have guessed it in a thousand years, that I would "miss the movie". You see that is the problem with your religion, it is a river of no return, but with mine, the ticket is good for later show. Finite actions cannot reap infinite rewards or punishment, it is an injustice and the greatest Judge (God) could never be guilty of such injustice.

    Vj ~ He didn't shed his blood willingly for that purpose "Father why hast thou forsaken me" and besides I really wonder if you idiots have any brains at all, that if Jesus were god, who was he refering to as the "Father" forgive them for they know not what they do"?
    AP: Heb 12:2 2 "looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."

  8. Vj ~ Earlier, you said that god came down to earth in flesh and blood as Jesus, and now upon his return, he is now two instead of one. If not, why did he had to sit on the right hand of his throne and not on the throne itself?

    AP: God the Father forsook Him at the cross because all of the sins of the world were placed upon Him.

  9. Vj ~ You meant, he forsook himself, since he was god in flesh and blood. When he become the son, who then and where was the father?

    AP: The Bible says that there is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood. What Christian is abandoning the church for the bar? Jesus died once for all sins, since He is eternal and without sin, His sacrifice can remit all sins for all time. His blood was spilled once. It doesn't need to be spilled again.

  10. Vj ~ You are still shooting bullshit and haven't answered the question. I said don't tell me what's good about your religion, tell me what's wrong with mine? You people do not realize how stupid you are, that every time you come in defense of your god, you a make him out to be a weakling.
Dialogue 16
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Tuesday July 02, 2002
    AP: If you are referring to communion where the wine (grape juice in my church) is drunk in remembrance for what He has done for us, the juice is just a symbol. The Catholics on the other hand, and maybe this is what you are referring to, believe that the wine becomes His blood, that is a terrible misunderstanding of what the Bible says. It does not turn into His blood, it is just a symbol of His sacrifice.
  1. Vj ~ On the other hand, the Catholics are saying that you also terribly misunderstood the bible. If there is contradiction even among Christians themselves, who then could ever know the truth based only on such a book.

    Vj ~ If man fell it is not because they disobeyed your god, but because your god was weak and ignorant in the first place to create the devil.
    AP: God didn't create the devil, Lucifer (the devil's name before his rebellion) was a beautiful anger.

  2. Vj ~ Since you hold only god to be eternal, then even the beautiful angel Lucifer had to be created. And furthemore, where did Lucifer dwell before heaven was created? Again if Christians become wicked because they were tempted by the devil, how did Lucifer became wicked when there was no evil? Seems to me, your god was the only one around and likely he was wicked to tempt Lucifer.

    AP: Lucifer desired to be as God, but the position was already taken, so God cast him out of heaven. His name changed from Lucifer (light) to Satan (deceiver). God did not create him evil though, through disobedience to God authority did evil come into the universe.

  3. Vj ~ It shows that the Christian heaven is not safe for Jesus or even mere mortals since even angels are susceptible to evil. If god cannot make your heaven evil-free, what is the purpose of a heaven in the first place. If man became evil because of temptation from the devil, then who tempted Lucifer that he became wicked. As I said Lucifer had to be created and if he became wicked, then only god himself is responsible for evil.

    Vj ~ When our planet is in grave danger (endangered species) shouldn't a "a man who eats everything" be held responsible and be looked down upon?
    AP: Take a good look at the endangered species list and tell me which one was destroyed because it was eaten out of existence.

  4. Vj ~ I did, the whales. Species do not only become endangered because they are "eaten out of existence", but because their habitats are destroyed and even worst you Christians eat up their food and wear their skins (furs).

    Vj ~ So why did your stupid god only accepted Abel sacrificed animal and not Cain's herbs?
    AP: Not because of what the sacrifice was . The Jews also offered to God a meal offering, ground wheat. He told them to do so, so it is not that Cain's sacrifice was a plant and not the animal. Here is the reason:

  5. Vj ~ Well the sacrifice didn't matter either way, since all, Cain, Abel and all Jews before Christ were destined for hell anyways. So did Christ on his visit to hell left the Jews there or do you know if they repent and went to heaven?

    AP: Cain had murder in his heart already and that is why God could not accept his sacrice, it wasn't from a true heart.

  6. Vj ~ All the reason why god should not have made him more jealous only accepting Abel's sacrifice. It seems that god had a beef with Cain before this all started. Doesn't make any sense to me, if god already knew what was in his heart, why did he ask him where is Abel?

    AP: Cain”s works were evil, not the object he was sacificing.

  7. Vj ~ What other evil did Cain commit besides killing his brother? The only one I can think of, he screwed his own sister, but that is not his fault since god created no other family.

    Vj ~ If it is no error, why don't Christians slaughter (sacrifice) the animals on the alter (church) anymore? Again, why does an innocent child becomes so disgusted when they are told that they are eating the very animals they adored in nursery tales? I added the line "Mary got hungry one day and ate the poor little lamb" and even the parents reproached me for doing that.
    AP: Christians didn't slaughter (sacrifice) animals on the altar (church). It was Jews who sacificed animalsat the alter (temple in Jerusalem).

  8. Vj ~ So why is the Old testament, still a part of Christianity, if what it still holds did send those who adhered to it, to hell?

    AP: The some of the animal's flesh was burned ( ofered to God), were eaten by the priests or the meat sold in the markets, it was not wasted.

  9. Vj ~ And what makes you think it will be wasted, if the Christians decide to continue the practice?
Dialogue 17
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Tuesday July 02, 2002
    AP: I have four children and none of them is disgusted by meat even after learning what animals the meat came from.
  1. Vj ~ Have you taken them to the slaugherhouse jackass? I have heard and I myself have been on numerous school trips to farms and other industrial complexes but never heard of one going to a slaugtherhouse. Why should it be so shameful? After all, it is only food for almost the whole population?

    AP: It is not about what goes into your stomach, it is what is in your heart. Try using the swear words you've shared with me and I am sure the same parents will reproach you again.

  2. Vj ~ It is the meat (fat) that destroys the heart and not words jackass. I haven't seen a doctor for any reason at all in twenty years because I know I have and will always have a good heart to the end of my life inspite of the words I use, but you can't guarantee that because of the animal dead carcasses you eat everyday.

    AP: The reason Christains don't need to sacrifice any animals to cover their sins is because of Jesus and His blood that was shed. He is the perfect sacrifice to was away all of our sins. See verses below.

  3. Vj ~ No, the real reason why Christians don't do it is because their children can't stomach it. Why do it only to cover sins, when it is also good for food? "Thou shalt not kill", and killing at the same time to atone for sin, are neither compatible to good reasoning nor a just God

    AP: Regarding eating pigs, Jesus, God in the flesh, says this: Mark 7:18-20 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

  4. Vj ~ Your Jesus is an idiot also, do not fat and viruses which enter from the outside affect the heart and body also? It stands to good reasoning that when a man (Pope - Parkinsons, Billy Graham - prostate cancer, Paster John Wesley - stroke), suffers from incurable diseases, it is due to uncleanliness of food (meat) and filth (the bible).

    AP: 20 He went on: "What comes out of a man (his speech) is what makes him 'unclean.'

  5. Vj ~ Isn't anger, through which your god was many times were guilty of, and christ himself killed a fig tree, also makes a man unclean? If speech alone makes a man unclean, then Abraham, Cain, Lot, Moses, David and Solomon (adulterers and muderers) were all innnocent since they only had god's speech (words) to contend with.

    AP: So you see it is not food, pigs etc., that defiles a man but what is in his heart.

  6. Vj ~ It is what a man eats that becomes his action. You eat animal you adopt the ferocious actions of animals. It is the reason why Christians murder, rape, plunder, enslave and pillage in the name of religion.

    AP: And what is in his heart comes out of his mouth when he speaks. So when you call me sh_thead and lamebrain it is not because you are using some clever tactic to elicit a response from me. Your words don't bother me, but they clearly prove that your heart is darkened. You wouldn't eat a pig but you will curse from your vile heart. Jesus, God in the flesh, speaks of this form of hypocrisy in the following verse:

  7. Vj ~ The hypocrisy lies with Christians who would not investigate other theories even to verify their own to be true. They show compunction for creatures they do not eat (cats, dogs, etc.), while they are busy eating others they can't resist eating. If what goes into you is clean, why don't you eat cats, rats or donkeys, you hypocrite?

    AP: You have proved yourself in error by your speech, if there is wisdom in the Vedic writings it hasn't helped you any. You need Jesus to change you heart, Vijai.

  8. Vj ~ You and Jesus both need to search for true knowledge to change your intellect, because a dull intellect makes one eats animals. My heart is fine as it is, I do not need Jesus to change my diet to red meat and destroy my heart only to ‘save’ me in the end.

    AP: Phil 2:10-11 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Vijai, either do it now on earth or at the judgement.

  9. Vj ~ Why do it now when you can do it on judgement day? How are children, the blind, dumb and insane confess?

    AP: But every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. You will stand before the true, righteous God, creator of all things and you will have to give an account for what decision you made about Jesus, because you have heard the Gospel, I have given it to you. To whom has been given much, much is required.

  10. Vj ~ My heaven is free of Christians (meat-eaters, adulterers, murders, thieves and liars) why would I want mixed with them in your heaven?
Dialogue 18
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Tuesdays July 02, 2002
    AP: Jesus loves you,
  1. Vj~ A man, even so 'close' to god, who has no love and compunction, for innocent cattle, and other creatures they mercilessly slaughter, doesn't know the meaning of the word "love" how can he ever begin to love.

    Vj ~ And what is your excuse for not investigating my faith? Name calling affects one who is in a state of ignorance, it is done for your own good. You should know by now, that it does not affect me, so there must be something right about my faith.
    AP: I haven't called you any names, what are you referring to.?

  2. Vj ~ I referring to the fact that if you do call me names, you will affect your heart and be deprived of your heaven. It is different with me because it is the intellect that will eventually give me salvation, and not the heart.

    Vj ~ I am promoting knowledge to educate you about natural laws and that God could never breach these laws
    AP: These are laws that man has made up Vj, Plus God existed from eternity past, the heavens and the earth He created they are not eternal, He is not subject to any laws

  3. Vj ~ Brilliant men I would say, even more brilliant that your god and Jesus. If heaven is not eternal, how can you enjoy eternal life in it? Besides I do not expect a fool to know what laws God is subjected to.

    AP: Man has the ability to disobey his conscience. Like you do when you reject the Gospel. Man can rebel against God's instructions, he can also repent. Your logic is faulty again.

  4. Vj ~ A man must reject or accept only when he has investigated all theories before him. It is that way I have rejected. Can you say that you have accepted the same way?

    Vj ~ That bad it is and it is the reason you will not be gifted with human birth again, for a very long time
    AP: The Bible says that it is appointed once for man to die and then his judgment, there is no reincarnation into another earthly being, sorry.

  5. Vj ~ If man dies only once how come the man, Jesus is coming again, how come those he raised from the dead, died twice. Your brains are all shit and nothing you have said so far make any sense. True, you should be sorry for what you will become as the bible is not on authority on creation or dissolution. It says the earth is 6000 years old, when we know that the Americas had human habitation as long as13,000 years ago.

    AP: This is consistent with all teaching in the Bible, your argument is wrong. Jesus is not a liar.

  6. Vj ~ How would you know that when the bible has taught you to be nothing else but a liar also? And you are so stuck up with filth that you care not to investigate anything else. Perhaps you are scared stiff of really coming to know the truth.

    AP: Vj, answer this question. Who made man and woman?

  7. Vj ~ An ignorant god like yours perhaps, so that brothers can screw sisters. My God created men and women, thousands at one time. Get it lamebrain!
Dialogue 19
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Wednesday July 03, 2002
    AP: You prove over and over to me that you do not know what the Bible says, yet you are proud to have a web page that declares your ignorance. I am amazed.
  1. Vj ~ Haven't you noticed that I avoided quoting from my scripture, why? Because if quotes alone could have convinced an idiot of truth, we would have no need for reasoning and logic. Even worst, when the idiot quotes from a book that tells the world the earth is flat and sinners are people using indecent language while virtuous people are those that commit incest, adultery and murder. Furthermore, it can tell you idiots, that souls are human lives, but what keeps animals and vegetations alive you don't know. I do not have to read the whole bible to tell you that God does not have a two-teer or three-teer system of judging mankind and He is not limited to this creation alone. It is the ignorant who would come up with such absurd ideas that God can wrestle, talk, walk, have sex and becomes angry with man. You are not going to any heaven lamebrain, but relegating your soul to immense pain and misery. Take what I have or leave it, the choice is yours.

    Vj ~ Hell must be huge since it has to accommodate 4 billion non-christians and their ancestors. I really pity those dead innocent children, maimed, blind, mentally retarded, deaf and dumb, of non-christians whose conscience and heart have not been developed enough to know of a bastard's (Jesus) sacrifice, and has to suffer for all eternity in hell for it. I can't believe Christians call this god merciful and compassionate. However, knowing what a fool you are, you will certainly make another rule to save them, right?
    AP: I have not made the rules they are out of the Bible, God's word. Also, who ever said children go to hell, I certainly didn't say that and the Bible doesn't teach that. Who ever said metally retarded people go to hell, now you are really searching for something to argue about. If God wouldn't send a person to hell who has never heard of a Bile, but only hold them responsible to their consciences (read Romans 2, it's all right there), why would he send a retarded child to hell? This is taught in Romans 2, you have not read it so you don't get it. Clearly the retarded child, or any child who has not know of Jesus or the Bible, will only be held responsible to their conscience. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

  2. Vj ~ How does a child six months old or even a year be held responsible to his/her conscience? Can a child use conscience to determine right from wrong you idiot? Flush the filth out of your brains and think. Why did he let them become retarded in the first place without any fault of their own? Why is Compassion not necessary from prevention of their retarded condition rather than granting them salvation?

    AP: Matt 15:18-19 18 "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man." 19 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies."

  3. Vj ~ I thought you said that Christ died for all of that and more, so what's the problem now? Go screw a duck and enjoy yourself, Abraham screwed his housemaid and I am quite sure he is in heaven also, even though you have no way of knowing it. Come to think of it, if you succeed in saving everyone, god effort of creating hell would have been a total waste of time and energy.

    AP: Here you are taking one scripture and building an argument around it. Look at the verses below and tell me Jesus doesn't sit on the same throne as the Father.

  4. Vj ~ The shit is clugging up your brains, you still have two gods. Father and son and I have yet to mention the holy ghost. Do tell me where was god when the the holy ghost was have sex with Mary?

    Vj ~ You are still shooting bullshit and doesn't anwer the question. I said don't tell me what's good about your religion, tell me what's wrong with mine? You people do not realize how stupid you are, that every time you come in defence of your god, you a make him out to be a weakling.
    AP: My purpose in conversing with you was not to construct an argument against Vidism, ot Hinuism. But to show you that you are in error in your arguments aginst the Bible. Vijai, I do not have a web page telling the world that the Vedic writings are false.

  5. Vj ~ Isn't that in reality what you are telling me that only through Christ salvation is possible? Doesn't that mean everything else is false shit-head? Besides you cannot speak of the truth or falsehood of the Vedic religion, because it is definitely not for people with shit for brains.

    AP: It is you who has prempted this disgussion with your accusations against the Bible. And you have not yet proved yourself right, if fact, you have shown yourself to know very little of the Bible.

  6. Vj ~ Little is enough for me, it only takes one straw to tell the direction of the wind. The Catholics know the whole bible also, but yet you stand oppose to them which means that there no guarantee that I can find agreement with you on the subject of the bible. I have not falsely accused the bible, but if you know nothing of natural laws and you don't want to know about it when it is presented before you then there is nothing I can do to make you see it any other way.

    AP: You only know little pieces that you have then proceeded to build arguments around. But if you would honestly look at the answers I have given you from the Bible itself, you would see that you have no argument.

  7. Vj ~ And where is your honesty in investigating my faith, even it it is to prove yours right?

    AP: Don't tell me to find fault with Vedism, you should dismantle your web page that falsly claims to debunk the Bible.

  8. Vj ~ How can I abandon the Vedic religon for Christianity if you cannot show me its faults? And how would you know that yours is not false if you don't know of the one that contradicts yours?

    Vj ~ Since you hold only god to be eternal, then even the beautiful angel Lucifer had to be created. And furthemore, where did Lucifer dwell before heaven was created?
    AP: The Bible doesn't teach that the Lucifer is eternal like God. God is eternal. The Devil was created.

  9. Vj ~ You earlier stated that Lucifer was not created, the reason for my above response, but now you are saying he was created. I told you so many times that you have shit for brains. Then, it is your god who is guilty of creating the devil. This shows your god is not omniscient otherwise he would have known of the trouble and avoided it.

    AP: The angels appear to have been created before the creation of the earth, for at its creation they are said, in the above verse, to have shouted for joy. So then Lucifer, being one of the angels, would have been with the rest when the earth was created. The Bible doesn't say that the angels were created before heaven.

  10. Vj ~ Why did god need angels to his work when he is supposed to be all-powerful? How come they do not appear before man man anymore? Perhaps, angels are a figment of an idiots imagination and not the act of an All-wise God.
Dialogue 20
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In reply to Andrew Parsons - Wednesday July 03, 2002
    Vj ~I did, the whales. Species do not only become endangered because they are "eaten out of existence", but because their habitats are destroyed and even worst you Christians eat up their food and wear their skins (furs).
    AP: Most of the animals are endangered because of man's greed and exploitation, not because people eat them. Who kills more whales than any other country? The Japanese. What percentage of Japanese are Christian? About 0.01% of the Japanese population is Christian. Your facts are inaccurate. By you logic you should be angery at the Buddists, since that is their predomanant religion.
  1. Vj ~ I thought you said god has another way of speaking to their hearts, like the Incas and Mayans, if they are not Christians. Wise men are never angry, because they know that God is in control whatever a man sows that will he reap, no less and no more. Meaning, there is no such a thing as forgiveness of sins or a handed gift of salvation, and justice is dispensed every second of the day and not on one day in the end. By the way, if the Bible is God's revelation, how come Hinduism is the oldest religion in the world?

    Vj ~ So why did your stupid god only accepted Abel sacrificed animal and not Cain's herbs?
    AP: Not because of what the sacrifice was . The Jews also offered to God a meal offering, ground wheat. He told them to do so, so it is not that Cain's sacrifice was a plant and not the animal. Here is the reason:

  2. Vj ~ Well the sacrifice didn't matter either way, since all, Cain, Abel and all Jews before Christ were destined for hell anyways. So did Christ on his visit to hell left the Jews there or do you know if they repent and went to heaven?

    AP: Listen to yourself, first you say that God is unfair because he didn't accept Cain's vegi sacrifice, then you say that the sacrifice didn't matter anyway.

  3. Vj~ It didn't matter, because I am wise enough to know that God is a subtle spirit and has no need for food whether it be an a burnt animal or fresh vegetables. What would God want from man, when He is the creator of all things? A god who is in need of food is not god but an ignorant man and he can only be a christian god

    AP: In a debate you can't argue both sides Vijai, that's not a debate it is a circular argument with yourself.

  4. Vj ~ Well who else would I have going around in circles, if not an idiot? It is your god that caused the jealousy and is responsible for Cain's rage and the murder of Abel.

    AP: Now you are confusing sacrifices with salvation.

  5. Vj ~ Even if I am, why would it matter when a fool who sacrifices also goes to heaven?

    AP: Only through the sacrifice of Jesus could anyone go to heaven.

  6. Vj ~ Then you are literally saying that all other religions are false? So why do you want me to abandon my site for coming to the same conclusion (false) about Christianity?

    AP: Those who were in the righteous part of hades (hell) before the death of Jesus, looked to the day that Jesus would come. His coming was profisised in the Old Testament.

  7. Vj ~ How do you know it (Old testament) is telling the truth now, when so many went to hell because of it

    AP: Those who looked for Him finally saw Him when, after He died on the cross went to hell and preached to those in the righteous compartment. If they believed they were taken. This is all clear in Luke 16 and 1 Peter. You should read before you argue.

  8. Vj ~ If they were already in the "rigtheous compartment" shit head, why was it necessary to preach to them again?

    Vj ~ It is the first time I heard that there are righteous compartment in hell. Again it sounds everything like a train with compartments moving about from heaven to hell.
    AP: Ah, you finally admit you don't know what you are fighting against. You are right, I told you to read Luke 16. It explains it very clearly.

  9. Vj ~ Never mind me, most Christians themselves don't know it and they have read Luke.

    Vj ~ So why is the Old testament, still a part of Christianity, if what it still holds did send those who adhered to it, to hell?
    AP: That is a fair question. The Bible says that the Old Covenant (Testament) with the Jews was a forshadow of the new. All the things the Jews went through were for our example. That is why we learn for the Old Testament, but we don't practice the sacrificial system, because it is no longer needed since Jesus has become the greatest and last sacrifice needed for salvation.

  10. Vj ~ Is it not an injustice to inflict pain and suffering on a whole race of people, through no fault of their own, "for our example"?
    Should they not have been sent to heaven by Christ also, seeing that by the "example" they have done some good for Christians.
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"Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth
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