Debunking Christianity
Part IX

Responses:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20

The power of perfect reasoning is essential to know.
Dialogue 1
Back to contents

Reply to: Bart Larson (pen name Timothy Cross)on Sat, 30 Oct 2004
Hello Bart,
Thank you for your kind reply. Below is my impartial response
...I briefly checked out your web site...attractive in appearance.
  • Vj ~ My intent is for its contents to be attractive (intellectually) but that would take a functional intellect to begin with and lots of time. Do you have what it takes, even if it is meant to assure you that present faith is the basis of all truth?

    I do feel you misrepresented the Bible...

  • Vj ~ Those of other dogmas that I have constructively criticised have also come to the same conclusion. Are they also correct?

    nowhere in the Bible does it say the earth is only 6,000 years old

  • Vj ~ Then your problem lies with the bible which is not clear on the subject since your own people propagate a six-day creation theory ("With the Lord, a day is like a thousand years…" 2 Peter 3:8),). In truth, you will agree that if there is such a thing as the absolute truth, it must be for all, in all ages, and if 'God's word', your Bible, cannot give us the age of creation, then what else can be deemed truthful that it holds?

    and the Bible doesn't say the earth is flat.

  • Vj ~ Isn't there somewhere it says that Christ was taken up some mountain and shown all kingdoms of the world? Sir Edmund Hilary climb the Everest, highest peak in the world, and even on a clear day with a telescope he could not have seen one tenth of all kingdoms of the world inspite of all tall skyscrapers we now have.

    In Job, I believe, it says God sits upon the "circle" of the earth.

  • Vj ~ Does it mean God has a backside like us to sit on? It is not a clear message since an object can be round and still be flat. However, since early Christians persecuted those (Greek philosophers) who propagated a spherical earth and even as recent as Columbus first expedition (being warned of falling off) then we can safely assume the Bible is not an authority on the subject at any given time.

    I know of nothing in the Bible that contradicts science.

  • Vj ~ If you claim it be the only valid revelation from a Just God for all humanity, then it is a contradiction if it is not the source of all sciences.

    There are some wonderful books out defending the Bible...obviously some statement in the Bible are not to be taken in a scientific sense

  • Vj ~ That's good, but how can the Bible or any other so-called revealed books be defended when those who are defending don't know anything about the treatise (Vedic) that contradicts them? For instance, you mention only science as not a contradiction to the Bible, but what about reason - incest (creation of one man and one woman) or resurrection of the dead and other miracles, all a breach to natural laws.

    For example, when we say "The sun rose at 5:30 this morning" we aren't saying the sun literally "rose" in scientific terms, but that it appeared to rise...obviously it is more stationary and we are the ones revolving around it. The same is true of some of the idioms used in scripture...taken in context, as the author(s) intended, they make perfect sense.

  • Vj ~ What I am saying is that, what we now know ethically, morally and scientifically, the source cannot be the Bible, for it it was, then early Christians and moreso civilizations of remote regions before the advent of Christianity were somehow surely deprived of the joy they bring us today, a grave injustice. I cannot understand, according to the Christian faith, why so many are born to suffer so much pain and misery while a few enjoy the best of everything. It seems to me that without pain and misery Christianity has no other basis on which it can strive or survive. It always has to show that God is involved only in the individual 'recovery' effort (miracles), otherwise he is not any God of power, and worst of all, he never does it by His own power and freewill, but someone (Jesus, Benny Hinn, etc) must intercede on his behalf. It means, no matter how dedicated a Christian is, without Benny Hinn, Christ and the other hypocrites, God is abolutely helpless.

    About truth, Jesus claimed to be truth (John 14:6)...there are only three possibilities: He was either a liar, a lunatic, or he was telling the truth. Based on evidence (miracles, prophecy, the resurrection, etc.) I think the evidence supports his claims.

  • Vj ~ How could he have been a liar, a lunatic or even telling the truth, when he personally did not write anything himself? The "evidence" supports the claims of the ignorant people who wrote the Bible and not that of truth. If they or even you knew anything of the immutable laws of nature - miracles, prophecy and resurrection are pure myth only meant to confused the gullible into believing. It is the law of nature that one born once must die once - if there were resurrection of the dead then a few died twice and not to mention that many who were or are born once won't die at all in the time of the rapture.

    May I invite you Vijai to read my manuscript addressed to atheists/agnostics, even though you may believe in God or a Higher Being (??)...thank you.

  • Vj ~ I do not BELIEVE in God, I KNOW there is one. In belief, there is doubt and fear and in knowing one is fealess in truth. When I know, it means that I have done that is required of me to impartially ascertain truth from untruth as laid out in my site. No one can defend their faith, even in the absense of the correct knowledge, without the faculty of good reasoning and the true functions of natural laws and this is what I presently urge you to do, even if you must validate your present faith as truth.

    You can download it at: www.4seekers.com It will state my position on truth, the Bible, etc.

  • Vj ~ Truth needs an impartial universal definition, not a "position" which varies.

    So, are you a student? professor? work? etc.?

  • Vj ~ I am retired, have been for eight years now and I am not even 60 yet. And yes, I am only a student of this vast wisdom of the true religion of the Vedas, hardly known (progression downwards is a law) to the outside world in this dark age.

    Dialogue 2
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Sat, 31 Oct 2004
    Vijai Singh wrote:
    Hi Timothy,
    If only truth can be defined it would be the end of all divisions among us and harmony will prevail. But who, would believe after a life time caged into a belief system passed down from ancestors to ancestors that truth once had and still has a definition.

    Reply to Bart Larson on Sun, 31 Oct 2004
    Vijai...thank you too. I won't take the time now to answer all your comments.

  • Vj ~ Even if your soul depends on it?

    I can say this, I KNOW that Christ changed my life and that I regularly see answers to prayer. I know my Lord lives.

  • Vj ~ So what do you say to those (the Arab with oil gushing out of his field or the billionaire hindu who spent millions on his daugher's wedding or the Jewish billionares Reichman brothers) of other faiths who have such experiences as yours? You should know by now that many even though die-hard Christians (Pope - Parkinsons, Billy Graham - prostate cancer, Pastor Wesley - stroke, etc.) are in dire pain similar to those who you deem unrighteous (non-christians).

    If I understand what you say you don't believe in God. Is that correct?

  • Vj ~ Was that the whole sentence or only half of it? If that is the way you read (understand) the Bible how could it provide any real answers?

    If you would be so kind as to give me your mailing address I will mail you a copy of my booklet "Belief In A God You Can't See." Once you read it maybe we could discuss some more.I could greatly expand these, but in abreviated form, these may answer some of the questions you raised. Again, thanks for your candor. I await your reply.

  • Vj ~ If what you have on your site is not enough to convince people of Christianity or the existence of God, I don't think any further booklet can do the job.

    Thank you for your response, but before I give you a rebuttal, did you not read this on site?
    A challenge
    Truth is one and it is for all, in all ages and must be the same for all worlds, depriving none. True revelation in its entirety, therefore, must not only be in existence from the very beginning of creation, but for all creations past and future ones to come. Truth is defined as that which is in harmony with reason and science, and conforms with natural laws, so don’t tell me how great or good your belief is, tell me what's wrong with mine, the one true religion.

    Just as you did to the others (Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Bahais) point out only one fault of my religion.
    Thank you,

    Dialogue 3
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Fri, Nov 6, 2004
    If you are not an atheist, as you scolded me for inferring,
  • Vj ~ I am sorry Bart, had you given serious thought to peruse my website there would have been no disagreements as to where I stood. You see, at 11 you found Jesus and 15 I became an atheist and it was indeed a good thing for me because from the outside the intellect functions than from within where it is completely static. It simply meant that brainwashing a child is a disease that I was never subjected to. A child will believe in anything their elders say because obedience is alwasy an adherence thrusted upon a child and if your way is similar to billions who found their faith the same way, how can you claim truth in Christianity by it?

    then you must believe in God (Brahma, etc.), correct?

  • Vj ~ It is one God but His attributes are three-fold, He is known as Brahma, the creator, Vishnu, the sustainer and Shiva, the dissolver. He is Omnipotent, Omnisicient and Omnipresent and never in need of mediators (prophets, angels, son and holyghost) to do His work. Well if He is already here, there and everywhere, there is no reason for Him to come or go, or send anyone on an errand, is it?

    Then by nature, if God is creator of all, then "science, logic, truth, etc." come from God,

  • Vj ~ Since you are yet to master logic, truth has to be unclear to you, but this much you must know, if science comes from God as you claimed to be His nature, then the Bible cannot be the word of God.
    "We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein
    and must be subject to His will.
  • Vj ~ He is All-perfect and if they are subjected to His will, then they must be all-perfect (never in need of changes) from the beginning to the end.

    If God makes laws (e.g., natural laws, science, etc.), then God can also choose to override any given law since He is Lawgiver, which is what miracles are.

  • Vj ~ If He has "to override" them, then He is neither All-wise nor All-perfect and for those who believe He can, they are foolish to begin with and you will agree that an ignorant person can never be an authority on the subject of Divinity. You are ignorant of Natural Laws, it is the reason you think God can "override" them. What would happen if the rules of the traffic lights are allowed to be override by some, would that not be dangerous for both parties? A fool is already a fool why must God make himself a bigger fool to "override" His laws to make a fool like you feel good?

    The Bible is full of "miracles," and prophecies (which are verifiable historically--events which were foretold hundreds, if not thousands, of years before they happened and came true...over 100 such prophecies about Jesus' birth, death, burial, resurrection, etc.)

  • Vj ~ We too have prophecy but we don't need some specific book or persons to tell us that. We know the true functions of natural laws where progression (righteousness) is downwards (unrighteousness) in this age until the end (approximately 426,000 years to go) where there will be nothing but adversities of the worst kinds.
    Revelation that contains historical references and must be authenticated by history alone cannot be of divine nature.
    "REVELATION IS A COMMUNICATION OF SOMETHING, WHICH THE PERSON TO WHOM THE THING IS REVEALED DID NOT KNOW BEFORE. FOR IF I HAVE DONE A THING, OR SEEN IT DONE, IT NEEDS NO REVELATION TO TELL ME, I HAVE DONE OR SEEN IT DONE NOR ENABLE ME TO TELL IT OR WRITE IT. REVELATION THEREFORE CANNOT BE APPLIED TO ANYTHING DONE UPON EARTH, OF WHICH MAN IS HIMSELF ACTOR OR WITNESS AND CONSEQUENTLY ALL THE HISTORICAL PART OF THE BIBLE WHICH IS ALMOST THE WHOLE OF IT, IS NOT WITHIN THE MEANING AND COMPASS OF THE WORD REVELATION AND THEREFORE IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD." THOMAS PAINE.
    Only the Vedic revelation fits this statement and is fit to be called divine revelation as it it can be revealed in other spheres where there are intelligent life forms.

    Also, I disagree with your narrowly defined definition of truth...whose "reason" do you accept? Yours? Mine?

  • Vj ~ It is universal, it is neither yours nor mine, incest leads to mental and physical infirmity, therefore God could not have been the initiator of incest by creating one man and one woman. Secondly, the history (science of archeology) that you use to validate the advent of the Bible, is the same that disputes the Biblical age of creation. Since the Bible is not the source of science, it is unscientific. It is not only my reason but everyone else who feels that God revealed all knowledge that deals with ethics, morals and all sciences. And lastly, natural laws dictates that whatever is finite (created), has a beginning must come to an end and this is justifiable because only that which has no beginning has no end (eternal), in your case, God. So your soul, your heaven, your Christ and all Christians can never exist for all eternity because they all had a beginning. You may say God can do anything, but how can He make any of them without beginning to have no ending. This is as simple as I can make it for you, you don't need a degree to figure it out.

    "Science" cannot be a guide for ultimate truth as it is now known for it is always changing as new theories are set forth and proved or disproved. Scientist of tomorrow will probably laugh at some of the so-called things we accept as scientific truth.

  • Vj ~ I agree with you that there are impricision among scientists, evolutionists work with science to prove the theory of man evolving from a lower creature, and Christians also are persuing scientific evidences to validate divinity. You see it is the reason why we apply all three (reason, science and natural laws) equally to validate the Vedic faith. When both reason and science conforms with natural laws we know it is the truth.

    To me, truth is ultimately, and only, found in God. Only "God" can state what is "true/truth." Correct?

  • Vj ~ If you know that much then you would have to know the ultimate truth, otherwise how would you know what God possesses or not?

    Therefore, if Jesus is God, then his statement "I am the way and the TRUTH and the life..." (John 14:6) must be weighed carefully, for if it is "true" then whatever Jesus says is "truth" must be true for he speaks as God, for he is God.

  • Vj ~ I "weighed" it carefully and found it to be untruthful and unjustified. God is Just and His truth must be for all, in all ages from the very beginning to the very end. To hand down truth only 2000 years ago depriving those before and those in remote regions (Incas/Mayans) who never heard of 'God' Jesus is an injustice. We, as fallible beings, are never in the habit of changing the rules in the middle of a game, so how can an infallible all-perfect God change His rules in the middle of the game of human creation?

    Disprove Jesus and you disprove my argument. I don't think you can do it. The "evidence" is too overwhelming that Jesus was telling the "truth."

  • Vj ~ My dear Bart, to begin with, Jesus never wrote anything himself so how could he be telling the truth? My site the http//www.vjsingh.com does disproved Jesus, but that would depend on how much courage you have to investigate it. Until now you are only busy defending your faith and haven't pointed out one fault in the one true religion.

    Dialogue 4
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Sun, Nov 7th, 2004
    Hi Vijah...on a much lighter note (no theology this time), I was curious, are you related to the golfer Vijai Singh? He is awesome...have watched him many times on TV.
    God bless...a friend,
  • Vj ~ Hi Bart,
    No, I am not related to the golfer, but as he is presently the master of the game I am also a master of a faith that is in harmony with reason, science and in conformity with natural laws. (smile). Incidently I golf also. I only started to play a few years now and I love it very much. I can attest to the fact that the joy is the greatest in playing the game when you know God instead of relying on mere belief where there are doubts.

    Reply to Bart on Sun, 14 Nov 2004
    Vijah...I'm back home from my trip...had a wonderful time...as soon as you get those two manuscripts read please email me with your (kind) reactions. :-)

  • Vj ~ I am glad for you and that your trip was a wonderful one.
    I can keep on reading more of Christianity as you so often requested but I can only become more and more critical of it which I see is of no benefit to you at all.
    It is about time you quit telling me how good your religion is and show me the fault(s) in mine. Can you not point out just one fault as you have shown so many in Hinduism?

    Dialogue 5
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Sun, 14 Nov 2004
    Thanks Vijai!...was just wondering.
  • Vj ~ There are three kinds of people, those who make things happen, those who watch what happen and those who "wonder" what happen. Now that you know where you belong, isn't it time you strive for the correct knowledge and move up the ladder?

    I FEEL "JUDGED" WHEN YOU SAY SUCH STUFF FOR YOU DON'T KNOW ME...BY WHAT STANDS DO YOU JUDGE ME?

  • Vj ~ By the "STANDS" of the Christian doctrine.

    Vijai, not to be overly heavy tonight,

  • Vj ~ But, it is the way I like it!

    ME TOO, BUT WITHOUT THE SARCAISM.

  • Vj ~ Why not, would "SARCAISM" deny you of salvation?

    but I'm still trying to figure out where you're coming from philosophically.

  • Vj ~ Then why are you so hesitant in perusing the one true religion

    I'M NOT, I HAVE A WHOLE WEB SITE DEFENDING THE "ONE TRUE RELIGION" CHRISTIANITY.

  • Vj ~ When you are only defending, it shows weakness. Offence is the best form of defence so you will have to point out and address the faults of my religion.

    Vj ~ and criticising it like you did to Hinduism and the others.
    YOU CRITICIZE CHRISTIANITY...THE QUESTION IS THAT OF TRUTH.

  • Vj ~ Very true, but you are yet to give me a definition for truth as I have done so many times. Truth is that which is in harmony with reason, science and inconformity with natural laws.

    DID YOU IN FACT READ MY HINDUISM MANUSCRIPT??? WHAT ABOUT THE ARGUMENTS I SET FORTH.

  • Vj ~ I also laid criticism to Hinduism and you did a good job of it too, but what good is it to poke holes in another religion when yours is full of bigger holes?

    Do I understand you to say you do believe in God, yet you don't believe in miracles?
    Vj ~ I do not believe in God (in belief there are doubts)

    CAN YOU SEE WHERE YOU LED TO SOME OF THE CONFUSION I'VE HAD ABOUT YOU?, I KNOW

  • Vj ~ I agree, it is nature of the ignorance to be confused when confronted with the truth.


  • Vj ~....there is a God (when you know, rationally speaking, there are no questions left unanswered).
    ADMITTED SO....I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS EITHER.
  • Vj ~ Then you obviously don't know and the reason Christians are always confused. If Christianity cannot give you all the "answers", does it not make good sense to look elsewhere?

    For miracles to occur it meant that God had to intervene into billions of people's personal affairs. He is All-bliss and if you really know what that mean you will understand why He cannot intervene anywhere in creation.
    YEP, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM SAYING, AND WHAT THE NEW TESTAMENT TEACHES...SEE THE CLAIM JESUS MADE ABOUT HIMSELF IN JOHN 8:58, AS WELL AS THE CLAIMS THE NEW TESTAMENT MAKES (E.G., JOHN 1:1,14).

  • Vj ~ Revelation is supposed to be a manual, instructions on how the individual must get the best of results leading to perpetual happiness and finally salvation and if God must still intervene in spite of it, then the revelation is as false as the god that revealed it.

    and when His nature is All-blissful
    NO, GOD IS SO MUCH MORE THAN ALL BLISSFUL...

  • Vj ~ By your answer I can tell you have no idea of what All-blissul means. The estacy of an All-blissful state is the ultimate, there is absolutely no more desire after such a state is achieved

    IF YOU'D READ MY HINDUISM MANUSCRIPT I ANSWER THAT QUESTION ABOUT GOD HAVING PERSONALITY...FOR EXAMPLE, IN SCIENTIFIC TERM, CAN SOMETHING COME FROM ABSOLUTE NOTHING? NO.

  • Vj ~ Read your bible again, did your god not create this world out of nothing?

    COULD A GOD WITHOUT PERSONALITY CREATE PEOPLE WITH PERSONALITY?

  • Vj ~ The question is, could we have been a person in the first place without personality? So, it is obvious it has nothing to do with God having a personality or not. It is what naturally distinguishes us as intelligent being.

    NO. THEREFORE GOD MUST BE INFINITELY PERSONAL

  • Vj ~ God is a subtle spirit and has no personality and if you meant that he is personal because he reaches us on a personal basis then it is an injustice to deprive those before Moses of divine revelation; and moreso, the Incas, Mayans and those of other remote regions when Christ declared that he is way the life and the truth and only through him salvation is possible.

    and I cannot see how He could maintain such a state.
    WHY IS THAT? CAN'T GOD DO ALL THINGS?

  • Vj ~ Not if He is all-perfect, all-powerful and all-wise! When He is All-perfect how can he breach His own laws? When he is All-powerful how can he be angered as the bible often portrays him to be? And when He is All-wise, how come you don't have all the anwers?

    Am I reading you correctly that one of your "presuppositions" to life is that "miracles can't happen because they would violate scientific law"?

  • Vj ~ They violate Natural Laws my friend, it is immutable because even God cannot
    AH, THERE YOU ARE WRONG! IF GOD IS BIG ENOUGH TO CREATE A WHOLE UNIVERSE GOD CAN DO WHATEVER HE LIKES.
  • Vj ~ In otherwords, you are saying since President Clinton was the most powerful man on earth he had the right do whatever he feels like even lying to congress while violating the constitution of the United States of America? There is something call principle, if we live by it, it is what saves us from the brute within us. God is not above principles such as ours, it is what makes Him God.

    When we abandon those principles we create disharmony much like when your god can abandon those principles, he became angered and murdered innocent men, women and children by famine, plagues and pestilences (Sodom, the flood and 70, 000 of Israel).

    ....change what has no beginning and no ending
    CHRISTIANITY, BY REVELATION OF GOD, SAYS IT DID HAVE A BEGINNNG...SEE JOHN 1:1,14 AND HEBREWS 1:1-3. BY THE WAY, I HOPE YOU HAVE A BIBLE AND WILL TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK UP THESE VERSES. IT IS PART OF BEING OPEN MINDED VIJAH!...SCIENTIFIC, YOU KNOW, GETTING "ALL THE FACTS."

  • Vj ~ It is the Bible that is in question here, what is the point of looking it up to validate anything at all? Only that which has no begining, has no ending (eternal). It means that whatever has a beginning must come to an end. So the universe, your heaven and soul which all had a beginning must also come to an end (die) and can never exist forever.

    nor can He change what has a beginning to no ending. When God is all-perfect and all-wise, everything else is perfect, it is the reason He does not have to intervene again in anytime during creation.
    TRUE, IF GOD WANTED IT THAT WAY, BUT WHAT IF GOD DID WANT IT THAT WAY, TO, AS SCRIPTURE SAYS, TO BRING MANY SONS (AND DAUGHTERS) TO GLORY? WE WERE MADE TO KNOW AND FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD ETERNALLY...SEE JESUS' PRAYER IN JOHN 17.

  • Vj ~ God is never in want, He has no desire, He is all-bliss. When your God is false, your bible can be no different. Finite actions can never reap eternal rewards. Even our own system of justice demands punishment to fit the crime, never more or less if we can help it, the same with God's justice.

    If your God does then he is a false god.
    NOT AT ALL.

  • Vj ~ He (Jesus) is coming again, isn't it? Does it not mean, he did not get right the first time? And if those who were risen from the dead died a second time, why is not possible for him to be crucified again also? After all, no one knows for sure what will be the outcome because there is no set laws - it is his laws which you insist, he keeps changing all the time.

    It is as simple as that.
    YOU LOGIC IS FAULTY.

  • Vj ~ In otherwords, you are saying yours is perfect, because how else would you know mine is faulty?

    YOU HAVE PRESUPPOSITIONS OF WHAT GOD IS AND CAN AND CAN'T DO....YOU'VE PUT GOD IN TOO SMALL OF A BOX.

  • Vj ~ The box maybe small to you, but you have to admit there is perfection and consistencies and if it does not fit a fool's mentality then it is obvious it is fool's own fault and not God.

    Again, isn't prevention better than cure, so why would God who is all-powerful want to heal when he is always in a position to prevent?
    BECAUSE OF FREE WILL MY FRIEND...

  • Vj ~ When "free will" is above divine instructions (Vedas) the cause is pain and suffering. It is not God who must do reconciliation, but those who wants to avoid pain and suffering. Your God destroyed free will when he decided to destroy the world (by flood) to begin another.

    BY THE WAY I HAVE ANSWERED MANY OF THESE ARGUMENT IN MY BOOKLET (DOWNLOADABLE) "BELIEF IN A GOD YOU CAN'T SEE." I WISH YOU'D READ IT, WHICH OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVEN'T. I HAVE DONE STUFF.

  • Vj ~ Again I must remind you that in belief there are doubts. You may think your answers are worthwhile to those who are indulge in your belief, but to me it is pure manure. If you must prove me wrong, then you will have lay out the faults, if any, of my faith.

    Dialogue 6
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Sat, 20 Nov 2004
    Vijai...I don't have time for a lengthy reply tonight
  • Vj ~ In truth, since I started my spiritual journey, time has ceased being a scare commodity for me.

    ...science grew out of a world view of a rational God,

  • Vj ~ Very true, that rational God couldn't be the Christian God as Einstein said it best,
    "We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein
    not an impersonal being where everything physical is illusion.
  • Vj ~ Not true, splitting the red sea, manna from heaven, fire and brimstone falling from the sky, rivers turning into blood, raising of the dead, virgin birth are all "physical illusion", or for which it is better termed as mythology, have all been attributed to a personal (anthropomorphic) God .

    Your history is wrong...Neuton, Pascal, Galileo, and most noteable scientists for the last 4 centuries have all been Christian,

  • Vj ~ History certainly can be wrong, it is the reason why we apply Five tests (eight evidences) of truth and not one (history) as Christians do, to validate the truth of our faith.

    at least prior to Darwin when atheism became in vogue.

  • Vj ~ It is better to be an atheist than a hypocrite. A hypocrite is one who has failed to rationally and impartially examined all theological treatise before drawing the conclusion of one to be true.

    The Vedic religion was not and is not like other present day religions, nor is it exclusive and confined to the inhabitants of India. It is universal and does not derive its authority from any single person, no matter how holy or wise. It humbly maintains that truth was complementary and not exclusive and contradictory and as such it commands allegiance to all ages. This true religion of the Vedas never feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno.

    All the young and inquisitive minds of past and this modern age are of the fervid impression that the principles of physics, chemistry and of other sciences, had their origination from their European ancestors and that no other race were aware of these before. It is certainly difficult to accredit these sciences to the fallen state of India; nevertheless this is where it all began.

    The fixedness of the Sun, the motion of the earth, of fixed and moving stars (the milky way), the planetary systems, of the moons, of earthquakes and hurricanes and many countless branches of sciences can be incontrovertible be proven by the many branches of Vedic philosophy. Even the discovery of the law of gravitation of which many credited Sir Isaac Newton becomes contradicted when many Vedic verses deal with the law of gravitation, thousands of years earlier.

    You're still not facing the Jesus question head on

  • Vj ~ I have, to begin with one born a bastard is not the trait of a "perfect man". If the Father was not perfect in creating two perfect beings (Adam & Eve) who continuously disobeyed him, how could the son be perfect. I cannot understand how ready you are to fault your own (Christians) while hesitating to find fault in my faith.

    Another prejudice of your god is that of all races he did not only create but specifically continue to select members of the white race as worthy dignitaries of spirituality. Belonging to the others I would understand to mean they are inferior.

    ...I will gladly dialogue with you AFTER you read my Belief In A God You Can't See manuscript

  • Vj ~ It is obvious that I have read a lot of the Bible, how else would I have been able to constructively criticised it. On the other hand, if you can't find the time to rebut the 'little' I have read, why would you suggest for me to read more?

    ...otherwise it is a waste of our time

  • Vj ~ Since I began the journey to spirituality time has ceased being a rare commodity for me. A wise man can draw wisdom from even a fool, if consider your time a waste it is because of your dishonesty.

    . ...please take my challenge and read it, PLEASE!!! With respect, Bart

  • Vj ~ I have been taking your challenge, but you have refused to take mine in showing me one fault in my religion.

    Dialogue 7
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Mon, 22 Nov 2004
    Vijai...I'll pray for you...
  • Vj ~ It is what the ignorant generally do, pray before knowing who the true God is. How about if you pray for the Pope (Parkinson's), Billy Graham (Prostate cancer) and Pastor John Wesley (stroke)? If your prayer cannot help these three for now, know that it is no good for even you. You don't even know what prayer is all about in the first place. If you think it is as you know it, then you are in serious trouble because the Muslims are praying steadfastly five times a day for annihilation of all Christians - they are asking allah to bring death to all Christian soldiers, children to become orphans, wives to become widows, etc.

    I try not to get into name calling or personal attacks as your friend does of me even though he doesn't even know me. It is counter productive. It becomes a form of adhominem argument...attacking the person rather than the issues. I can do without your personal attacks and those of your friend.

  • Vj ~ In our case, if you are offended, it is productive since it is for your own good. My friends are also trying to help you. You see, we know for a fact that if you do not strive for perfection you can never validate who is perfect. It is only the wise who are perfect and only the wise know who is wise or foolish. One of the traits of those striving for perfection is that they are never offended by words as a matter of fact, only a fool can be offended but never a wise man.

    My challenge still remains, read what I've written and then we can talk or else I think we should terminate our correspondence. Read my defense of the Bible and of prophecy.

  • Vj ~ It is no challenge at all, since you haven't read anything of my faith yet. The idea is not only to read, but to apply reasoning along with it and if a Christian begins to reason, he/she can longer remain a Christian.

    There are "facts" to support my position if you are brave enough to investigate them.

  • Vj ~ How can you speak of courage, when you lack it? You haven't even the courage to investigate my faith and you are asking me to do more investigation of yours. Have you read my dialogues on Christianity? It is all there, my friend.

    P.S. You mention "barbaric,' what about Hindu practices of the caste system, body piercing, Hindu temples with vile images of fear (snake, etc.) etc.?

  • Vj ~ Well, my friend, you are indeed blinded by ignorance, which makes you a coward and perhaps eventually you will die one. You said earlier, you are not interested in finding faults, but you haven't failed in your effort to show the faults of hinduism which I have also severely chastised. What are you afraid of my friend? If it is meant to prove your Christ perfect, why would you not want to point out the fault of my faith? Hindu practices are internal, it is not the same for Christianity.

    It is primarily Christian mission groups that care for the starving children of India.

  • Vj ~ Those sweltering under the pain and miseries of destitution are reincarnated souls of Christians. Even with the constant help, which Christians called charity, it is even more detrimental to the soul since they are being brainwashed into a false dogma and those doing the feeding of the body and soul are the worst of all sinners.

    About the Catholic church, I am not Catholic.

  • Vj ~ I am not a hindu either.

    I stand with Protestants who "protested" that the Catholic church had/has wandered from the historic faith of Jesus by adding many non-biblical traditions about Mary, praying to saints, etc. The Catholic church is a combination of biblical Christianity and Roman paganism brought into the church during and after emperor Constantine.

  • Vj ~ It seems to me that Christ has a lot of work to do in mending the divisions among Christians. It shows that the Bible is incapable of speaking for the projection of harmony of the Christian faith. Even the Protestants themselves stand divided. As I said, truth must have a definition only then harmony can prevail and only the vedic religion holds that definition.

    Dialogue 8
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Wed Nov24, 2004
    Vijai...John Wesley died in the 1800's over 100 years ago. (You're wrong on your history!)
  • Vj ~ Pastor Dr. John Wesley co-minister with Billy Graham before he went on his own evangelistic path. I watch his program over and over and only last year he was still administering his faith in a vegetable state. But even if my history was wrong of Pastor Wesley, what about the other two scoundrels succumb to diseases that Christ or your prayers cannot help?

    One hundred percent of us die...don't your people die?

  • Vj ~ Our people die, but only once, you cannot say the same for your people where some died twice (raising of dead) and where many will never die (during rapture). Your God is inconsistent and unjust since he keeps changing the rules during the game (of human creation).

    I'm not Catholic.

  • Vj ~ Makes no difference, when there are doubts on who truly speaks for Christianity.

    Billy Graham is still preaching Christ.

  • Vj ~ What good is that, when Christ cannot prevent or heal his pain and misery? He said of his pain that God is testing his faith, how long does it take your God to know some one especially if one has spent one's whole life preaching the gospel. By the way, God does not have to test anyone, since He is omniscient, He is all-pervading and is already the knower of all.

    Again you judge me wrongly about me not reading your material.

  • Vj ~ If you have, how come you haven't raised a single objection about my faith yet?

    I took a whole semister in college taught by a HINDU professor...over 1/2 the semister was on Hinduism...I have read and studied your material. Have you read my paper on Hinduism friend? By the way your professor gave me an "A" in the class as I defended my faith against his...he was very impressed with my arguments,

  • Vj ~ I cannot understand how you got an "A" and in spite of my well-informed site, you still don't know what my religion is. He was impressed because he too is a dunce like you, both victims of a false dogma.

    which you haven't even had the courage to read.

  • Vj ~ I must have read something, how else could I have been so constructive in condemnation of your faith? (CHRISTIANITY)

    You judge the Bible. Have your read it?

  • Vj ~ Yes and I have concluded that your God is immoral and dishonest as those -Adam & Eve (disobedient), Abraham, David & Solomon (adulterers), Lot & Cain (incest), Moses (murderer), Christ (bastard), he has chosen to be his messengers.

    The question is one of revelation...has God truly revealed his truth in the Bible? I say yes, and I give "proof" in my booklet (tons of it) if you weren't so afraid of reading it.

  • Vj ~ It cannot be truth since truth must be for all in all ages, depriving none. For example, those before Moses were deprived of the Ten Commandments, and those before Christ were deprived of the New Testament, the actions of an unjust God. Check out my Live Discussion Forum

    You're wrong on almost all accounts in this email...sorry!

  • Vj ~ How could I be wrong when you lack a definition for truth?

    The ball is in your court. Why are you so afraid to read what I've written? Bart

  • Vj ~ I can afford to read what you have written for a wise man can draw wisdom out of ignorance, but what is your reason for not reading mine? If you have no objections it is either perfect or you haven't read it? So which one is it Bart?

    Dialogue 9
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Thurs, 25 Nov 2004
    Vijah...rather than go tit-for-tat I'll make you a deal
  • Vj ~ Where have you been Bart? I have already laid out a deal for you and you have completely ignored it.

    A challenge
    Truth is one and it is for all, in all ages and must be the same for all worlds, depriving none. True revelation in its entirety, therefore, must not only be in existence from the very beginning of creation, but for all creations past and future ones to come. Truth is defined as that which is in harmony with reason and science, and conforms with natural laws, so don’t tell me how great your belief is, tell me what's wrong with the one true religion.

    ...mail me one or two small books presenting your case for Hinduism and I'll mail you a couple of small paperbacks

  • Vj ~ Would it not be better for you to establish what religion I belong to before any discussion should take place? But if you need a book to read, here it is - Light of Truth

    ...we'll each read the other's works and discuss them. Is it a deal? My address is: 4609 Orchard Lane; Columbia, MO 65202 USA

  • Vj ~ Is it not blasphemy to read the works of a 'false' God? I have read and I am discussing while you are yet to read and discuss. Christians are indeed hypocrites, they are blinded by their own ignorance and rely totally on false hope for salvation. They are content with that and can't be bothered with anything (reason) which gives them a headache.

    Happy Thanksgiving. Bart

  • Vj ~ Perhaps, if the lives of innocent birds (turkey) could be spared, they probably would be thankful also.

    Dialogue 10
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Sun, 28 Nov 2004
    Vijah...I will read Light of Truth if you will read Basic Christianity by John Stott...a deal? I will not read yours unless you are willing to read mine...that is only fair.
  • Vj ~ A drowning man will grab on to a straw and here I am offering you a bundle of hay and all you talk of, is making a deal. It is thoroughly understood, that you cannot make a horse drink if it is not thirsty, so, from where I stand whether you read or don't read the Light of Truth I could care less.

    I have not ignored you...I feel you have ignored my writings...you want specifics, here goes:

  • Vj ~ Why worry over Hinduism, when Christianity and The Bible suffers the same dilemma? Does it not make good sense, that you should clean up yours before others?

    1. Hinduism has an impersonal God (Brahma)....how could an impersonal being create personal beings? How could a God without love create people with love...feelings...intellect.

  • Vj ~ By the way all these have been answered in my Past dialogues links which you have totally ignored. Just a few rebuttals to show that hinduism (which is not my faith, but like the idiot you are, still insist it is) is still a religion in better standing than Christianity and let's deal with it as you have laid it out OK!

    1.You said God (Brahma) is impersonal, but you haven't shown where he is? If you meant that He is without form, so it was with your God before Christ. If you meant he should take form then the hindus have Krishna to show as Jesus is for the Christian God. If you have a problem with Krishna, they have Shiva, Hanoman, Ram, Ganesha, etc. So, I don't see where you make any sense at all with Christianity when, you have Father, son, holy ghost, the cross, virgin Mary, etc.

    2. Hinduism is an evolving religion...if it is the one true religion, why has it evolved over the years...always changing?

  • Vj ~ So is Christianity, it had to evolve from one to many sects, slaughtering (Spanish and English inquisitions) each other at will. And far worst, it evolved from barbarism and tyranny (Christian crusaders, conquest and subjugators of foreign lands, annihilator of the Mayans and Inca civilizations, persecutors of greek philosophers - and discriminatory enslavement of blacks, red Indians and Asians) none of which the Hindus were ever guilty of.

    Question: “Who can say for sure what God is like?”—Answer: God.

  • Vj ~ No the answer, is one who has diligently sought His wisdom. God's nature is truth, consciousness and bliss and when an individual conforms (by study and practice) his or her nature's to that of God only then he or she has the authority to speak for God.

    The only One who can say for sure what God is like is God.

  • Vj ~ If only God knows what he is like and no one else, what good is that to him when he is already God? I meant, why did he bother to create us to simply let us die complete idiots?

    As simple as this is, it is an important point to grasp. Only God can give the final word on Himself.

  • Vj ~ He has, in the one true religion but like any idiot would do, you are still looking else where.

    Now, what if one of the panel members stood up and said, “To clear up all the confusion about God, I tell you, I AM GOD! I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life.’’? (Cf., John 14:6; emphasis mine.) This gets into the verifiable. Anyone making such a claim would be one of three things:psychotic (with delusions of grandeur), a deceiver out to pull off the greatest hoax of all time , or he would be God.—Whether you realize it or not, this is exactly the claim Jesus made. Jesus taught and claimed to be God [not one of many gods, but the one, eternal God become flesh]. It is as if God had chosen to write Himself into His own story and become a man. The answer to how I know truth is quite simple. If I can clearly show that Jesus was/is God, then whatever He stated is not merely one man’s opinion about God and life, but it is absolute divine truth.—How can we know truth?—Because God became a man, and spoke the truth to us.

  • Vj ~ When you say to "us", shouldn't the Incas and Mayan civilizations have been included also? It is this injustice of depriving millions in remote regions that makes him as you rightly put it "psychotic (with delusions of grandeur), a deceiver out to pull off the greatest hoax of all time".

    [Read a little further and I will present you with some strong evidence to support Jesus’ claim to be God.] Jesus claimed to be God incarnate...he PROVED IT by fulfilled prophecy (several hundred if you have the courage to investigate them), miracles, the resurrection, the reliability of his witnesses (not counting Judas,

  • Vj ~ You have to count Judas as we was selected disciple by your "God incarnate". Judas was not a traitor but made a scapegoat to lay blame on the Jews for the crucifixion to bring about a false resurrection to save fools like you, as Christians love to say, the free gift of salvation by his blood. You see Jesus was a public figure travelling from city to city, preaching in the open to thousands, everyone knew him. If there was a need for him to be betrayed, it would have meant he was a coward secretly disguising himself or hiding from the view of those he preached to.

    all were willing to die stating they had seen the resurrected living Christ.), etc. YOU KEEP SAYING I DON'T GIVE EVIDENCE...HERE IT IS!!!!! DISPROVE IT IF YOU CAN. And, please, none of your strawman arguments...give me concrete "proof" disproving prophecy, the miracles of Christ, his resurrection...ok?!!

  • Vj ~ It is not evidence my friend, it is from your bible which is without reason, unscientific and in complete violation of natural laws.

    4. Hinduism is an idolatrous religion...worshipping hundreds of thousands if not millions of dumb idols. It is also a religion of fear (appeasing frightening idols of snakes, tigers, etc.)

  • Vj ~ What difference does it make if it be millions (dumb idols) or only a few (Father, son, Holy Ghost, the cross, virgin Mary, shrines of Bethlehem) it is still more than one. Besides, I would rather worship "millions of dumb idols" anyday than be associated with the atrocities brought on by the pillages and plunders of Christianity. They say, "never trust anything that is angered at one moment and peaceful the next" as you don't know when it is ready to get angry again.

    5. Hinduism is a cruel religion because of its false beliefs in karma, reincarnation, and the caste sysytem...this is not how God intended the world. To let babies die, to fail to help people because they were born into the wrong caste system is CRUEL Vijah!

  • Vj ~ Well atleast it shows that no one suffers without any fault of their own. And you know what, they are given the opportunity of human birth again and again until they get it right for nothing in this world is more cruel than the fear of a soul being given only one chance before being condemned to a burning hell of fire for all eternity.

    You cannot deny that. You say they deserve that. Christianity says they deserve love and mercy. I'll take my Jesus over your caste system anytime.

  • Vj ~ Love and mercy is the wisdom to know, not food and shelter in exchange for the soul. If Hinduism is cruel, at the very least, they have confined it to their own. But I wonder, why even though Christians are out to convert the whole world, they stand divided more than ever.

    6. Hinduism says all is illusion (maya). Allow me to ask you some questions Vijah. If you believe that all is illusion (this life and everything in it), then how is it possible to know anything?

  • Vj ~ Here jackass, for the umpteenth time, this is my faith - one true religion study it before shooting manure.

    I await your reply Vijai...take your time and think about what I've said. And you are in my prayers..."Lord, open Vijah to the truth of who you are, and expose Satan's lies. I pray this in the name of Christ."

  • Vj ~ There is no Satan (Lucifer), for if there is one, he was created by God, and if imperfection such as Satan can be created by God, then God is not All-perfect. For now you need to do less of praying and empty your brain of all the shit in it by applying good reasoning.

    Dialogue 11
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Mon, 29 Nov 2004
    Vijai...one last chance...I'll read Light of Truth "if" you read Basic Christianity.
  • Vj ~ It is your soul that is in crisis, not mine and to put it quite bluntly I have read and debunked more than basic Christianity. It wouldn't matter what else I say, you will still remain the fart you are, truly deserving of a bastard to worship.

    I think you're scared to check the evidence. You keep throwing up straw man arguments...

  • Vj ~ If your honest intention is to bring the lowest of the lows to Christ does it not include even "the straw man", fart-head?

    Christianity stands or falls on Jesus alone. The Bible forewarned that "wolves in sheep clothes" would invade the church. Jesus taught that there would be many false cults at the end of days

  • Vj ~ And which religion do you know that does not warn of false prophets and gods? The warning is good, but it is impartial dialogue that I impart that decides whose is false and whose is true, but instead of indulging you dismiss it as "straw man arguments".

    ...you quote them as sources of Christianity. What you condemn I agree with you!! I condemn it too. That is not Jesus.

  • Vj ~ All that I have been critical of were taken from your bible, and if Jesus is not of your bible, then you are the idiot I said you are.

    Vijai...you continue to use ad hominem arguments, calling me an "idiot" etc...you're attacking me, not the arguments I set forth.

  • Vj ~ Well you said of my belief, that it is all illusion, so I guess I am free to use them (ad hominem) and if you are offended by them why not become a hindu and treat it as an illusion. I am attacking your religion, but you are not responding so I have to attack you. It is like a doctor who first attacks the disease with drugs and if it doesn't work, then he/she must go further to attack (surgically) the patient. It is for the patient's own good and the same it is for you also.

    Your reply if FULL of logic fallacies...e.g., about Hinduism worshipping "idols" you come back and say worshipping the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are "idols." as if two wrongs make a right.Yes or no, is Hinudism an idolatrous religion? (The answer is "yes.")

  • Vj ~ You are criticizing the idolatry of Hindus which I also oppose and I am merely pointing out that you have the same in Christianity. I can't see how the idol of Christ and his cross is right for Christianity while that of Krishna is wrong for the Hindus.

    Secondly I DON'T worship Mary...never have never will.

  • Vj ~ Same with me fart-head, I do not worship idols...never have never will. I don't know where you got the idea that I do in the first place.

    Secondly, if Jesus is truly God (and you haven't refuted the evidence) then Jesus deserves worship.

  • Vj ~ Your evidence also says Jesus was born a bastard and no sensible person can accept a bastard as God.

    The reason I want you to read Basic Christianity is so you'll know what you're arguing against. On a 1-10 scale, your understanding of true Biblical Christianity is about a 2.

  • Vj ~ I give you 10, it is the reason I have no cure for an idiot.

    From where I sit our emails are going nowhere. If you'll agree to my first condition of us each reading the other's material I'll continue. If you are not willing to do that then don't bother replying.

  • Vj ~ Yours is going somewhere, even though it is poison (ignorance), I still can draw nectar (wisdom) from it.

    Dialogue 12
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Tue, 30 Nov 2004
    Vijah...I thought of one other thing...you kept mentioning the "one true religion." I thought you were making a statement of fact about how you viewed your religion rather than that you were referring to a web page...You never mentioned it as being a web site, but when I saw it underlined I decided to click on it.
  • Vj ~ It took you one whole month to finally find my site, and during all that time you insisted your Christ is perfect. How were you going to read the Light of Truth since I sent it the same way?

    I did check it out...it too totally misrepresents true Christianity.

  • Vj ~ For instance, your creation came out of nothing, but ours came out of an existing material cause, where is the misrepresentation here? Just don't tell me of misrepresentation, show me them.

    It is full of strawman arguments...much of what you rightfully reject as false (e.g., Benny Hinn) I totally agree with you.

  • Vj ~ I can also say that yours are "strawman arguments" and leave it at that, but can truth be ascertained with such an attitude? So like your frog story, why not come out of your well (pond) and explore the ocean of knowledge now put before you.

    Jesus is to be taken seriously.

  • Vj ~ If you cannot respond to my "strawman arguments", then you yourself is guilty of not taking Jesus seriously.

    There is not a single objection you've stated, including science, that given time I could not defend.

  • Vj ~ When you out to teach the world of perfection, you must first be perfect to do so, until then you are a loser. As you yourself said, that science changes with time, so if given time, you will still not be able to defend.

    For example, you quote Einstein. According to his theory of relativity time is "relative." If you had two people, one living at normal earth time, and another traveling at 90% the speed of light, one would age 120,000 times faster than the other. Possibly that explains some of the Bible referring to a shorter creation. Possibly both ages are scientifically right.

  • Vj ~ I quote Einstein to show how easily it is to defeat your bible. What Einstein (relativity) or Newton (gravity) has discovered was nothing new, it was known to the Rishis of yore, but it is new to Christians because the Bible could not have enlightened early Christians to do the calculations as you now can do. It simply shows that had there been nothing else but the Bible Christians would have still been brutally violent and backward.

    (By the way, doesn't Hinudism present the world being carried on the back of an elephant or turtle or something to that effect?...not exactly scientific!)

  • Vj ~ Yes it does, and it is no different from Christians until Columbus, who believed the world to be flat...not exactly scientific.The fact is, that you are still a Christian of an unchanged unscientific religion and I was never a hindu of another unchanged unscientific religion.

    About the quote on the web page of the Bible saying one day is as a thousand years to God, that is not to say that the 6 days of creation are 1,000 years each. It is referring to the timelessness of God and how one day to God like 1000 years would be to us. Any knowledgable Christian reading such attacks would say, "This guy doesn't know what he is talking about."

  • Vj ~ It is because of the scientific progress we have made that Christians can climb on the band wagon by giving new explanations to make their religion compatible to science. But we both know, that early Christians steadfastly believed creation to be 6000 years old, the earth was flat and the sun was moving. If it weren't so then you would have to explain why so many Greek philosophers were persecuted for saying the opposite.

    You (or whoever put together the web page) misquote the context of Mark Twain's quote about the parts of the Bible he does understand. He was not saying he disbelived it, but rather because the Bible speaks so clearly on some subjects (e.g., hell) it scares him.

  • Vj ~ God is father, mother and friend, and if revelation is intended to put fear into man then it is an injustice. It is untrue there is a hell (with a beginning) for all eternity (without an end), (also finite actions cannot reap eternal punishment) it is the reason so many can be scared, but if taught the truth from the beginning there can be no fear.

    I could go on and on...you keep erecting straw men, label them Christianity and then tear them apart and think you've disproved Christianity. You haven't. All you've done is tear apart a straw man.

  • Vj ~ What is strawman about incest the cause of physical and mental infirmity or out of nothing nothing can come? The children of Cain through sexual relations with his sister (his wife) could not have produced normal people nor could it be the work of an All-perfect, All-wise, All-powerful God to create such a condition for the human race to multiply. Only magician brings something out of nothing - it is call a trick.

    Disprove the historicity of biblical prophecy, the resurrection of Christ, etc. and then and only then will you have disproved Christianity.

  • Vj ~ I already did, but you have ignored them all as strawman arguments. It is a law that a soul that takes birth once, dies once. Raising of the dead or the rapture (taken up alive) is a breach to this law. As for the historicity of the bible, history itself makes the bible redundant as a revelation itself.
    "REVELATION IS A COMMUNICATION OF SOMETHING, WHICH THE PERSON TO WHOM THE THING IS REVEALED DID NOT KNOW BEFORE. FOR IF I HAVE DONE A THING, OR SEEN IT DONE, IT NEEDS NO REVELATION TO TELL ME, I HAVE DONE OR SEEN IT DONE NOR ENABLE ME TO TELL IT OR WRITE IT. REVELATION THEREFORE CANNOT BE APPLIED TO ANYTHING DONE UPON EARTH, OF WHICH MAN IS HIMSELF ACTOR OR WITNESS AND CONSEQUENTLY ALL THE HISTORICAL PART OF THE BIBLE WHICH IS ALMOST THE WHOLE OF IT, IS NOT WITHIN THE MEANING AND COMPASS OF THE WORD REVELATION AND THEREFORE IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD." THOMAS PAINE
    Even though Thomas Paine was not of my faith, his reasoning power was certainly in harmony with it. My revelation contains no historical references.

    Dialogue 13
    Back to contents

    Reply to: Bart Larson on Tue, 30 Nov 2004
    Vijah...thank you for responding...I feel our emails are going nowhere. We're both set in our ways and beliefs.
  • Vj ~ Thank you for responding even though you are hurt. Bart, you are not comprehending, perhaps you are not reading what is supposed to be read. As I said wise men can draw wisdom from a fool, so my emails are going somewhere. It is because my beliefs are indeed rich in wisdom, it permeates the estacy of happiness which is quite the opposite in your experience with your belief. I have never ever turned away any of my opponent, even if they are idiots, because true knowledge is for all.

    I find the "tone" of your emails more and more disturbing. They are becoming very attack oriented, even to the point of profanity, name calling, etc. (your last email)

  • Vj ~ How suddenly you find it so urgent to take up the cause of profanities, while for a whole month you dismissed good logics as "strawman" arguments? Perhaps it is the reason your emails are going nowhere.

    You can pray for me, if you believe in prayer, and I shall pray for you.

  • Vj ~ Think of it, my friend, if prayers work the way you were taught it should, we both would not have been having this dialogue, in the first place. Baseless prayers is the reason why Christianity and rest of the world stand so divided many times over.

    This will be my last email Vijah. As friend to friend I do want you to suggest the following...it is up to you whether you take my suggestions.

  • Vj ~ If you read my Past dialogues you will see that it is no surprise to me that your departure was certain, as many before you have done the same. You would think that if my belief was irrational, I would have been the one to do the disappearing act, don't you think?

    First, I want you to know that I will probably go ahead and read the book you recommended out of respect for you, plus I want to find out what my oponents believe. I'll see if I can order the book through Barnes and Nobel...or off Amazon.com.

  • Vj ~ Why do that when you can read it (click on link - Light of Truth) for free, right on my site. And if you can muster up some courage read His Life & teachings where he debated not only Hindus, but Christians, Muslims and scholars of other faiths.

    Even though I find the tone of your emails highly offensive at times, speaking candidly, it is FAR more disturbing to me that you don't really understand what you're arguing against

  • Vj ~ I find nothing in this world more disturbing than false guarantee of salvation through the prevailing false dogmas I have constructively debunked on my site. Actually, it is quite lucid that those who are easily offended are the ones who dwell in the shadow of these wretched dogmas.

    ...Forget the Benny Hines, and some of the wackos on TV.

  • Vj ~ I can't they constantly remind me of how wacko the religion of Christianity is and it should send you the same message. Maybe you don't know it yet, but these wackos you refer to, think you are a wacko also, so where does it end, my friend? It's pity that all you divided wackos think you are going to be so dandy in one heaven

    Even if you never change your beliefs Vijah, you'll get MUCH further in arguing Hinduism with Christians, such as myself, if you learn to argue the facts of true Christianity and avoid name calling.

  • Vj ~ I avoid it, until it is necessary, as I pointed out before in my doctor and patient analogy. I am so happy when people use profanities against me for I can measure how much I have come of age by not being affected by them, all because of my effort and study in embracing the one true religion.

    (It is a royal turn-off!) It comes off like a kid who is losing so the only thing he knows to do is call someone a poop-head or some such childish name. It is very undignified.

  • Vj ~ I agree it comes off like a kid, but if you are still affected by it like a kid, does it not tell you that you are yet to grow up also? Yes, a wise man is unmoved by vanity or profanities and he is indeed in the best position to disseminate a knowledge that make others like him. He is enjoying the estacy of perpetual happiness amidst all the adversities in the world. But when you are still affected by profanities like a kid, what can you teach others?

    Please take this as constructive criticism.

  • Vj ~ My guess is that if a Christian starts to think, constructively that is, he/she won't be a Christian anymore. Tell me Bart, how could one, like a kid who is easily offended by words and ready to leave this dialogue because of it, really knows what constructive criticism is all about?

    Also, by way of information, I'm not sure if you're aware, but there are four major divisions within Christianty: Catholicism, Charismatics, Evangelicals, and Liberals. I'm an evangelical...the word "evangel" is the Greek word for "Gospel." Evangelicals believe that the New Testament is authorative and that believe in the shed blood of Christ on the cross for our sins is central to Christian belief. We believe salvation is an unmerited gift of God's grace that comes when we place our faith in Christ. Catholics add "works" to faith, which I believe is a contradiction to God's word. (E.g., Ephesians 2:8,9). An excellent book which shows some of the fallacies of Catholic theology is "The Gospel According To Rome."...it is compassionate, written by a former Catholic turned evangelical.

  • Vj ~ I know what your belief is Bart, and it makes no difference to me of what sect you belong to, the pure fact is that I have constructively criticised or debunked your Bible and that is what you have failed to respond to.

    Liberals, can hardly be called Christians as they reject much of the Bible...it would be like someone claiming to be a Hindu and then rejecting the Vedas. Charismatics are usually evangelical in theology, but I think get off into some crazy stuff that may have some basic in scripture, but they often take it to absurd extremes (my opinion). I usually consider them brothers in the faith, but disagree with many of their outward practices.

  • Vj ~ So what does this all mean, do they still get to go to your heaven? If they do, I don't see why you are complaining, after all the "blood of Christ has already been shed on the cross" for who ever believe in the Bible.

    One suggestion I have for you Vijah is to learn to debate the facts presented by such Christian intellectuals as Josh McDowell, John Stott, Lee Strobel, C.S. Lewis, Pascal, etc.

  • Vj ~ So why don't you close your site down or bother to entertain me in this dialogue, if Josh McDowell and the others have be the ones to debate Christianity? Haven't you noticed that I do not have to refer you to the scholars of my faith? I have made sure that I am capable of doing so before putting out the challenge to the world.

    If you're going to defeat Christianity, go after those most respected in Christian circles. C.S. Lewis, for example, has sold over 250,000,000 books. Josh McDowell has sold millions of books

  • Vj ~ If my arguments are that of strawmen, as you boldly put, how are they to make a difference to the gentlemen you refer me to or do you think that what I have already written in debunking the Christian faith, have to be rewritten? Your scholars will sell millions of copies, why not, the whole world is immersed in ignorance. Anything rational that put the intellect to work is not compatible to gullibility.

    If you can defeat them, then in my mind you will have disproved Christianity.


  • Vj ~ Those who are void of reasoning and the true functions of Natural Laws are already defeated by their own ignorance. Even God has no cure for such a perverted condition, so how can I do any better?

    To think that Benny Hine and the likes of him are representative of what most Christians think is totally wrong. Only a very SMALL percentage of Christian I know even give Benny Hine the time of day. There are major books and CD's out by recognized Christians arguing that what such people as Benny Hine are false teachers. (e.g. "Charismatic Chaos" by John MacArthur)

  • Vj ~ To begin with even Christ was a false teacher, since he never wrote anything himself. No single person in Christianity has the authority to speak on the Bible, because there is no way they can define what is truth.
    We, even if you insist us to be a part of Hinduism, have set ourselves a part as an authority on the Vedas, because we can define truth -as that which is in harmony with reasoning and science and in conformity with natural laws. By it we know Hinduism to be false and the same goes for all false dogmas and even scientific theories of evolution as proclaimed by Darwin, etc.

    You might also read a book on logic...find out what ad hominem, strawman, two-wrongs-don't-make-a-right, and other such fallacies are and then try to avoid using them.

  • Vj ~ What do you know of logic at all, if you cannot respond to the incest of Cain and his sister? This is our motto in propagating truth “Let him say what is good for another even though it may offend.” Light of Truth

    You'd get much further in defending your beliefs.

  • Vj ~ You must be brain-dead my friend, are you such a hypocrite that you can't even admit that you are the one defending. Furthermore, you haven't shown me one fault of my religion yet, what am I supposed to defend?

    A very good, readable book on logic (not by a Christian) is: "Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric" by Kahane. It was my textbook at the University of Nebraska. No offense, but if you used the arguments you've used with me in a logic class you'd flunk.

  • Vj ~ I agree, if your logic class could not save you from the abuse of profanities, it would no doubt flunk me.

    If and when you want to find out what the majority of evangelical Christians believe, then may I suggest the following books and authors: Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell Basic Christiantity by John Stott Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel Pensee by Pascal Most of these authors are respected by Catholic, Charismatics and Evangelicals because they argue core Christian beliefs and don't get hung up on the lesser points that often divide Christians. Only Liberals, who reject the historic Christian faith, will reject these authors.

  • Vj ~ I have to wonder what your scholars really know of the Bible muchless logic, when so many have written on behalf of the cause of Christianity and Christians still remain so deadly divided.

    I truly wish you well Vijay.

  • Vj ~ "If wishes were horses beggars would ride" heard that before? As I said in beliefs there are doubts, we must strive to know and as Thomas Paine rightly put it “It is only by the exercise of reasoning, that man can discover God.”

    I hope you take these suggestions as constructive criticisms and not as personal attacks.

  • Vj ~ I don't get it, why would you even suggest that, when you can't handle mine as constructive instead of personal attacks. Christ suffered worst than verbal attacks when he was nailed to the cross even they it weren't for the cause of truth, so what makes you think that you don't have to suffer in some ways also to arrive at the truth.

    I don't hate you,

  • Vj ~ Hate is when Christ declared himself as the truth, the way and the life, depriving millions (Incas, Mayans, etc.) in remote regions of his new-found salvation, moreso, the hate for those who will be burning in hell for all eternity simply because there is no second chance. So if you are a follower of Christ you are most definitely an accomplice of hatred.

    and even though I disagree with you, I respect your sincerity and willingness to stand up for what you believe.

  • Vj ~ As far as I know, no Christian has repect for him or herself muchless others.You should show the sincerity and willingness to investigate impartially what has been presented to you only then you can display proper respect.

    God bless you Vijah!

  • Vj ~ I am already blessed by not being a victim of abuse from profanities.
    • <<< Prev
    Next >>>
    "Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth
    Translation
    Back to top of page