Debunking Hinduism
Part III

Responses:
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46

Dialogue 37 - Swaminarayan faith
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Reply to bol radha’s email - bolradha@hotmail.com
Sunday, March 03, 2002
u ass! how dare u insult the Swaminarayan faith???????
  • Vj ~ Aren't you at all embarrassed that even an "ass" can insult the Swaminarayan faith?

    ur kinda turban wearers are just …F---ERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\

  • Vj ~ Check my site out again, you will find that even "a turban wearer" (Sikh) is as ignorant as you are.

    U best repent before u and ur guru dayanand die a horrible shit death u BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Vj ~ There is no such thing as repentance. Even if you repent for being a Hindu, it will not save you either.

    Reply to Bolradha - March 04, 2002
    u are an insult to the word SINGH...U PUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Vj ~ Follow the one true religion where even not an ass can insult it or the “word SINGH”.

    only ur kinda ass can insult the Swaminarayan faith,

  • Vj ~ An ass is an ass in spite of what kind it is. If my kind can insult the Swaminarayan faith, any other kind can do it. It shows not only you but also Swami Narayan and all those who follow him are asses.

    as for following a true religion which cannot be insulted by even an ass , well whatever religion u are following i am sure ur Guru or idol or ur mentor or whatever, is an ass as well so there is no question of not being insulted by an ass!

  • Vj ~ Finally, since we have now established that we are all asses, why are you so pissed your Swami Narayan is an ass also?

    Dialogue 38 - Almighty
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    Reply to Venkat - Aug 9, 2003
    Your site and your preachings say that God cannot take material form or cannot take incarnation.
  • Vj ~ Even logic tells us that all religions oppose each other and if he did, whose "material form" is genuine?

    If you consider god as ALMIGHTY - a power or force to do the mightiest, the biggest and most, Why do you think it is impossible for GOD TO TAKE A HUMAN FORM or to take an AVATAAR??.

  • Vj ~ Embodiment of the soul is bondage (pain and suffering) so it cannot be the action of One with the "mightiest force". God is omnipresent (here, there and everywhere at all times), being embodied that will localized Him.

    What a human being, a devata or a elevated soul cannot do is what can be done by GOD or the PARMATMA svaroopam

  • Vj ~A man who strives to elevate his soul, is doing so for only one purpose alone, and that is, to avoid taking birth for as along as he can. So why would God want to take birth while an elevated soul is try to avoid it?

    I WANT TO KNOW WHERE IN THE VEDAS IT IS SAID THAT THE BRAHMAN WOULD NOT TAKE A FORM WHATEVER MAYBE THE CASE.

  • Vj ~ This is where all our faults lie, we want to know the Vedas, before ingraining rational thinking. If the Vedas alone (by quotes) can educate man, what would be the need for altruistic teachers?

    Dialogue 39
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    Reply to Venkat - Aug 10, 2003
    First of all thanks for your reply.
  • Vj ~ You are most welcomed!

    Now you say that logic tells us all religions oppose each other.

  • Vj ~ Is this true or false? If it is true I still like you to answer whose "material form" of God is genuine and if it is false, why do we need so many religions when one is good enough?

    If you understand that religions are means to achieve a goal - say elevation - or attain the aatma tatvam - or attain mukti. Now this being the means - the means can themselves not be the GOAL. So hence your argument does not stand. THis is as far as religion goes.

  • Vj ~ Roads are means of travelling also but can you jump blindly on anyone road and reach your destination. Before religions (5000 years ago), there was only "Sanatan Dharma" and if it was good enough for the ancient civilization of the aryas, why is not still good enough for us now? If you are travelling blindly you will get lost and not until you inquire or check out a map you will be able to recover. Similarly, we have fallen and therefore we must make the effort to climb again by doing impartial inquiries of all religions because there is only one true path to mukti. Take a look at this ILLUSTRATION

    As far as Sanatana Dharma goes the oldest and the one which does not have a begining or end -it helps to provide freedom of worship.

  • Vj ~ Idol-worship only started with hinduism and not before so it cannot be sanatan dharma without a beginning or an end. Freedom of worship is only justifiable after one has first examined the tenets of all religions to ascertain right from wrong.

    So idol worship is essential to begin with if not to end with.

  • Vj ~Devotion done in ignorance is still ignorance (avidya). As laid out on my site, it is the intellect that must be developed first to ascertain truth from untruth. You cannot deny that false gods don't exist, because the Vedas warn of the worship of false gods. So one must strive to know who is God before encouraging worship.

    Nobody studies matriculation immediately after birth. Everybody studies after passing every class and year

  • Vj ~ Very true, and whatever our goal is, it is the correct knowledge that must be applied, the same with salvation.

    Now in the same way God takes material form by way of a guru or an avataar.

  • Vj ~ God pervades the infinite space, in it lies galaxies that are beyond counting and with life forms as ours. Our galaxy is but like a tiny grain of sand which must be divided by billions of spheres that exists in this galaxy alone and further divided by the trillions and trillions of souls that exist on these planets alone. What sensible person will reduce an almighty and allpowerful God to such a tiny grain of sand by taking a form?

    Now when you say that "whose form is Genuine" . Please note that this is the difference.

  • Vj ~ If you acknowledge that religions are means, you must acknowledge all "material forms" and not only yours. But I am quite sure you will not become a Christian or encourage anyone to follow Christianity for mukti.

    Dialogue 40
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    Reply to Venkat - Aug 11, 2003Yes I agree that religions oppose each other in their means.
  • Vj ~ And is not by "their means" the goal is determined? So then how can a Christian by being "UNSWERVING AND TRUTHFUL TO HIS OWN FAITH" attain mukti as a hindu who is "UNSWERVING AND TRUTHFULL TO HIS OWN FAITH"?

    If there is only good it has no standing since how can you term something as good since you don't know bad.

  • Vj ~ This is true, but good (truth) can only come out of bad (false), when reasoning guided by the correct knowledge is applied to it. Now, we must define what is the correct knowledge, any knowledge will not do since all religions by their means oppose each other.
    A knowledge that is in harmony with reasoning and science and in conformity with natural laws is the correct knowledge. All religions, except the Vedic religion, breach this definition and therefore are all false.

    Intellectual reasoning is desirable if one must attain mukti. You can go on and on about how good your religion is, but if you are not prepared to ingrain the proper reasoning habits to ascertain truth, you will get no where further than where you are.

    My site is a wonderful oppurtunity for you to tread the path of reasoning if you so desire as I am wary of debating over and over what is already spoken for and against many times over on it. The ball is in your court, I can only show you the way.

    Dialogue 41
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    Reply to Venkat - Aug 12, 2003
    The reason for the debate was to make only one point clear that IDOL WORSHIP is not wrong.
  • Vj ~ This is not just any debate, it is of the utmost importance to the human soul, where truth must be ascertained and it begins with a functional intellect to reason. Means (religions) that oppose each other can never bring the same results. A hindu who cherishes the thought of purity as a vegetarian and a Christian who eats as many cows as he wants to cannot attain the same results. How can you justify idol-worship be true, if you can't see the difference in this statement?

    I feel it would be nice if you could be contemporary since even rishis have been saying this with change of time that things change.

  • Vj ~ In truth, all that is finite changes it is what natural laws dictates, but that which (the Vedas) is eternal never changes. The world, people and everything else experience these changes but the truth is the truth from the beginning to the end of creation and not even a rishi can change that. If there is one according to Hinduism who changes with time, then he is not an altruistic teacher of the eternal Vedas. The gullible are easily swayed because there is no effort required to practice austerity. So given an idol to prostrate rather than teaching them to use intellectual reasoning, seems to work in this way as they can gather a large following just to be called a saint or rishi.

    If you have the inclination to do so, peruse my site and try to ingrain the proper reasoning habits to distinguish truth (pure monotheism) from untruth (idol-worship).

    Dialogue 42
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    Reply to Venkat - Aug 13, 2003
    When i said that it is a debate i intended to point out the quest for the truth.
  • Vj ~ The "quest" must begin with the correct knowledge, you are yet to put a definition to it as I have done.

    Anyway you always go literally into everything so i cannot help.

  • Vj ~ Well, isn't the idol you worship a literal object? We agree that the world is changing, and intellectually and spiritually we have fallen, which means we cannot begin elevation anywhere else but the literal. How can an idiot with a static intellect begin to understand allegories or metaphors (language of revelation) which requires a discriminating intellect?

    I also understand that it is of utmost importance OTHERWISE why should i write to you.

  • Vj ~ Then why are you trying to educate me instead of seeking education?

    It seems you have not gone through the vedas in clarity where varnashrama dharma has been given.

  • Vj ~ The Vedas is written in allegories which can only be totally comprehended by a realized soul (rishi). True, I haven't reach that stage, but neither are you. Besides the Vedas you read are corrupted with Hindu mythology. You were probably born a hindu and if you must see the light of truth, you will have to abandon your present ideology to free your intellect to ingrain the proper reasoning habits.

    A shudra can eat animals though not compulsory. In the same way if we were to consider them whomever you mention as shudras they can eat.

  • Vj ~ A shudra is one who is void of reasoning, and since you lack it, you are one.
    "There is no turpitude in consuming flesh, alcohol or comitting adultery, for it is the natural way of created beings, but abstinance brings great reward." Manu
    So where is the reward for a shudra or you who eats meat?

    The question is whether a Shudra can get MUKTI. Yes why not.

  • Vj ~ You don't even understand the caste system, how can you speak of mukti? A shudra is so termed because of ignorance and no one in an ignorant state attains mukti, unless one strives for knowledge and elevate one self and in that case one is not a shudra anymore but a brahman.

    Your sense of reasoning etc., is also limited my friend.

  • Vj ~ Perhaps it is limited, but you don't have any at all. One can never experience love of the divine without wisdom. You are already worshipping false gods which means you are a shudra who don't have any love for your own soul.

    YOu need to be practical as to whether the austerities as given in the vedas can be practiced by you.

  • Vj ~ It can be, but it requires a lot more effort than it was for those born in the earlier ages. Our past karma is the result of birth in these conditions therefore we must work harder. It is the lazy who sits in prostration to an idol awaiting mukti. You who progate this false dogma is even a bigger sinner. The worship of a false god is equivalent to 1,000 crimes so it is not difficult to measure your sin.

    I am but sorry that you just keep repeating your STANDPOINT.

  • Vj ~I am doing it for your own good, why go on like a parrot when what I have repeated have not entered your brains. Read the Ka href="http://www.oocities.org/Athens/Ithaca/3440/books.html">LIGHT OF TRUTH, it is your only hope.

    In the same way we change the means by saying that due to high amount of corruption, timelessness, unwanted dependencies, if you are not able to do the austerities please atleast do rama nama japa.

  • Vj ~ This is nonsense and you are misleading people. Tme has change, but truth never changes. Mukti is only attained one way, as it was for the first people, so it will be for the last. A doctor in the past and a doctor in the future both must acquire the same knowledge. There is no compromise, the same with mukti.

    So the wise and the rishis are here to show even the fool and the wicked the right path.

  • Vj ~ Isn't that why I am also showing you the path? God has no cure for a fool and neither does a wise man. It all boils down to individual effort and those who lack it will have to go through pain and suffering until they can do it. There has only been on true Rishi in the past 5000 years so take heed to know him. The problem with people like you, is that you are trying to save others, even fools, before yourself. Read my links on past dialogues it will help you to the path.

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    "Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth

    Translation
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