Vish: Plus, one of the first doctors to treat Swamiji was a Muslim from Ajmer and numerous biographies of Swamiji record that the Muslim doctor delibrately mistreated so that Swamiji's condition worsened.

Vish: In his magnanimity, Swamiji forgave the repentant cook and even gave him money so that he could escape to Nepal. But you have not learnt anything from Swamiji's life.

Vish: And despite the fact that Swamiji criticize the Advaitins and other Samnyasins, do you know what they did when he died? They came to claim his body for a grand funeral, saying that "Although he criticized us all his life, he was still one of us" (considering that he was initiated into Samnyasa by a Dashanami Samnyasi)

Vish: The Hindus are still around in India and none is exactly physically attacking you or other Arya Samajis.

Vish: It is true that some attempts were made on Swamiji's life by some sectarian Hindus, but I wonder how Swamiji's followers would have acted if they had come to power.

Vish: Swamiji gleefully records that under the influence of Samkaracharya, King Sudhanva broke idols and threw them into ponds. While this fact is Swamiji's fiction and is not attested historically, it only shows that Arya Samajis would have not been better than Muslim bigots if they were given power.

Vish: In any case, you are just an Arya Samajist version of the Taliban.

Vish: Read the Charita by Pundit Lekhram before spreading your venom.

Reply to Vinaire, on Wednesday, August 4, 1999
Vin: A Hindu does not believe that the physical image he is worshipping is God.

Vin: To him a physical image only serves to focus his attention while he is seeking the experience of God.

divi soorya-sahasrasya bhaved yugapad utthitaa
yadi bhaah sadrishee saa syaad bhaasas tasya mahaatmanah. - Gita 11:12

If the light of a thousand suns were to blaze forth all at once in the sky, that might resemble the spendor of that exalted Being.

Vin: Why is it necessary to have the word "Hindu" in the Vedas to be authentic?

Vin: Do you believe like Christians and Muslims believe that all truth is contained in a book, and that anything outside that book is false?

Vin: How bigoted can you be?

Reply to Vinaire, on Wednesday, August 4, 1999
Vin: Vijai, I truly feel sorry for you.

Vin: But I hope one day you will be able to see past your fixed ideas.

Vin: You don't even know what I believe. You easily assume thing.

If one wants to achieve something in another person, shouldn't one - court - that person?

Hello Charulota - June 18, 1999
My husband is in my heart indeed, yet still you reminded me of him: because I didn't expect him on these message boards.

You surely remember the story how Kama was burnt when he disturbed Shiva's meditation?

He only was doing his duty, which was: to awake Him, with the purpose of avoiding that the world become rigid and lifeless.

Being disturbed, Shiva burnt his beautiful body with a flash of light from his third eye.

Kama has never been inhabiting a body ever since. Yet still he is there, whenever two lovers are flirting, when they embrace each other, he is the spirit surrounding them.

Now, shouldn't we thank Kama? Don't we owe him our very life?

Yet still you worship Shiva - ah! How tough, a holy man's fate.

Mythology, yes... that's the way we try to understand, isn't it?

Brahma may be the omnipresent, omniscient all-bliss, yet when we encounter him in the world, hasn't he always already turn mythology?

I am still struggling to understand why the law of gravity should be any different from the Ramayana, concerning the light it sheds on our lives.

(Who is making a fool of God, you think?)

“It is better to be an atheist than a hypocrite.” Swami Vivekanand

We can either both say nonsense

or rather we can prove our points with relevant quotes, realizations etc.

Which do you think will be most effective.

You put some facts inside then place a heap of speculation. If that is the result of your years of study, then you need to start over.

I really don't understand what you are speaking of that i haven't responed to your shouts.

But let me say one thing. You are very effective in alluding the true discussion by jumping here and there with word jugglery. like i said, you can jump here and there but the fact remains, you are speculating, and make no sense.

I have asked you to say what you propose the vedas purpose is. You tell me to look at your homepage, is that trying to get out of the debate. i rather you speak personally or not speak at all.

You allude to this "one true religion" which is as abstract as your worship of this void.

The way you speak is as if you have all the answers, but you make no sense. to you everyone is spreading irreligion while you are perfect.

But those who are sane will see that you are the one spreading false religion.

I see that no amount of quotes from scripture what makes you think, on the other hand you just jump without thinking in the the firepit of illusion.

I say you are the one running away from the challenge. You can only try and rebuke one with meaningless words, but your words have no substance. Why don't you grow up?

On one hand you speak of on religion while on the other you hate others and their beliefs in favor of your imersonalistic philsoohpy.

Stop avoiding the real issue by criticising others. This is not the nature of one who understand what religion is about.

The way you speak is as if you are a worldly man addicted to illusion and speculation with understanding of the true nature of life.

You speak as if you understand the Veda, but I say you have none. You only speculate over and over, thinking what iyou say is all good. So if you think your blown up ego has won, then you are wrong.

"As we are individuals, so is the Lord, except that he is the Supreme Individual."

"God is not formless."

"He also has a name (infact, he has unlimited Personal names)."

"When man interprets or changes the rules of God, and misleads the populace, then that is wrong. That is not religion. That is a cult (man- made socalled religion)."

"Many may follow socalled religionists, but their result is only the trouble they took. Religion may come in many names, Christanity, Islam etc. according to the people's understanding of God's message. That doesn't imply that one is better than the other.

"God either comes Himself or sends his representatives in different parts of the world,"

"...yet the message is ultimately one, Surrender to the Lord."

"One must understand the difference between man made religions and the Religion of God."

"Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed." (svetasvatara upanisad 6.38)"

"For those who are unfamiliar with sanskrit, Veda means knowledge. The Vedas are scriptures that originated from the Supreme Lord. Since the vedas came from the Supreme Source, they are infallable. They are the laws of the lord for all living entities."

"You see, the impersonal aspect represents the bodily rays of the Lord, the Brahman effulgence. brahmano hi pratisthaham--And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman (Lord Krsna Speaks) The Lord is a person and surrounding the lord is his bodily rays."

You seem to not understand. One cannot make his own rules and say its a fact. One must consult authorized scriptures. In such scriptures one will find statements describing the all glorious form of the Lord. Have you never seen such statements or do you focus on the bodily rays?

We are far apart here. I seem to be talking about religion as established by God for certain people's ability to grasp that message and you are looking at how foolish people of today fight over nonsense, claiming their group is better.

This is the bodily concept. One must realize that he is not the body but spirit soul, servant to the Lord. Everyone is not on the same level of God Consciousness. That is why God has established many ways to reach Him.

"Think of it as a step which leads one to the top. People ignorant of their true nature kill one another. That is not religion."

God is omnipotent, he also has a variety of energies that work under his control. He has many aspects of Himself. But ultimately he is a person, the supreme person.

The Lord as you say, is here there and everywhere. But how he does that, do you know? The Lord in his paramatma feature, the supersoul, pervades all things. He is not only situated next to the soul in the heart, directing Him, but he also stays within even the atoms. Without his presence, nothing can function.

"When I speak of message, I speak of the ultimate message, and goal of religion, surrender and serving God our Lord. So one must look past these superficial differences and serve the Lord, the One Personal God.

I don't think you understand. I said, man-made religions are made by man and is falliable

Whereas the laws of god are infalliable and cannot be changed or interpreted.

One must follow scriptures that come from the Lord or his empowered representative. That representative doesn't make anything up or mislead the people. He preaches the words of the Lord for the benefit of all living entities. That message is to love God and follow the rules of God.

What is infalliable are the rules of the lord, they cannot be changed as we see today. God has established many scriptures all over the world for the elevation of the conditioned souls.

Not everyone can follow the vedas,

So the lord has given them lighter penances to practice. Some people are karmis, jnanis, yogis, bhaktas etc. different levels of realizations, which require different methods for purification.

The spiritual master is the representative of the Lord, who preaches the glories of the lord to the fallen masses, so they can become devotees of the lord also.

Please, I don't talk without giving quotes from scriptures. Only a fool would talk without proof. When a statement is given one should back it up, instead of talking trash.

The Supreme Lord Krishna said, "Men of small intellignece worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but my devotees ultimately reach my supreme planet." (Bhagavad gita 7.23)

"I am God Almighty, I am the Light of the world like the sun. Neither defeat, nor death, can ever approach me. I am the controller of the universe, know me alone as the Creator of all. Strive ye diligently for the aquisition of power and wealth such ( as true knowledge). Ask ye of me. May ye never lose my friendship. I give true knowledge, which is real wealth, unto men who are truthful. I am the revealer of Vedas, which declare my true nature. It is through the Vedas that I advance the knowledge of all. I am the prompter of the good and true. I reward those who devote themselves to the good of humanity. I am the cause, I am the support of all that exists in this universe. May ye never turn away from me. May ye never accept another God in my place, nor worship him." RIG VEDA, 10:48, 5.

Vj ~ Krishna was a Yogishawara, not God. In the state of samadhi such statement is possible but it does not mean he was God. The Vedas is the source of all true knowledge, which adamantly profess the subtleness of God. We, on the other hand, must seek to discriminate between truth and falsehood by this correct knowledge as taught by Swami Dayanand. It is the only way to interpret the true meaning of the Gita,Vedas, etc.
There should be no interpretation, accept the scriptures as they are!!

"All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Sri Krsna is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists." (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.3.28) Previous to this verse were the discreptions of the other personal forms of the Lord (not the demigods who are servants of the lord).

Vj- Authorized scriptures can only be deemed true when it is in harmony with reasoning and science, and in conformity with natural laws. What good is authorized scriptures in the absense of reasoning?
Sorry, but no! The scriptures as presented by the Lord are all perfect, and cannot be changed to adapt to science etc. With our limited senses we cannot perceive things out of range. Take for example, our eyes can see with the aid of the sun, but without the sun, our eyes are rendered useless. So in order to understand things out of range, we must look to the revealed scriputures for enlightment. They contain true information presented by the Lord for our aid. Beyond matter is spirit. The spiritual world cannot be seen with the material eyes, so with knowledge of scriputres we can understand.

If the practice of all these religions are the cause of poor ability to grasp isn't it obvious that those who preached them alone are responsible for their downfall and more of false religions will be further miseries for them?
What's the use, your vision is blocked.

It would be an injustice to established many ways to reach Him. Being Omnipotent and Omniscient God He has no other altenative but to provide beings with one way - one truth.
Yur opinion! When there is a statement, it needs quotes to back up.

If worshipping idols, humans and animals, and sacrificing animals (blood-sacrifice) in this life is the first step when do they take next step?
Very complex topic

If you understand karma, and transmigration of the soul, then you would know of the three modes of nature: goodness, passion and ignorance. According to previous karma, the soul is granted a body, which is conditioned by one of these three modes. One in the mode of goodness is far better situated for spiritual life, whereas that person in ignorance cannot be so progressive, so he needs to start off a step at a time from his diplorable position. The Lord is merciful and helps all souls in whatever positions they are in to reach him. Each moment is to be engaged in progressive spiritual life. One need not wait for the next life. Only the Lord judges.

Since it is your goal of religion why are the goals of the others wrong. Don't they have a right to have their own goals also?
You don't understand! Maybe later!

This is all quite true, but you do not speak of a man who understand the empowered representives muchless His authorized scriptures. Aren't you one also that are misleading people?
Why don't you look at your self and ask the same question truthfully. Why do you deny the existence of the Lord and say he is impersonal. Where is your quotes from sastra(scripture).

You seem biased in not understanding that the Lord can appear wherever he wants and to whomever he wants, not just to the indian masses or the amercian etc. He can do whatever he wants.

So, are you a spiritual master, one of the fallen masses, or a devotee of the Lord?
Constitutionally, we are all servants of the Lord, but due to forgetfullness, we are engaged in illicit activites of sense gratification, but if we look to the lord and start to serve him, our troubles will be over.

Vj ~ And what level are you, yogi?
What kind of question is this?

Yet why all this rage. You blame others for ruining religion, but perhaps you are doing the same. Calm yourself and write with clear thoughts, you might then make sense. What is the result of anger but bewilderment.

And where do you see that I made a statement about being a Hindu. Please do not presume anything.

You are a very arrogant fool! With all this troubel to meditate on the void what have you achieved?

"... but of the spiritual world, the abode of the lord)."

As one can understand the process of transmigration of the soul;

the soul (us) travels to different bodies at the time of death (due to past good or bad karma). Each time the soul is made to forget its past activities so as not to disrupt its present functions (in whatever body it has adopted). Enjoying or suffering the results of its karma, the living entity forgets its true blissful nature as the eternal servant of the Lord. Whenever he decides to look to the direction of the Lord, he may regain his relation with the Lord. Otherwise he may speculate for ages.

(The soul or living entity is not temporary like the body, it is eternal, always changing bodies that perish)(we are not the body, we are eternal beings encaged within the body for a certain time to live out our previous karma)(we also perform karma in the present life)(to get out of karma that binds one to the material world, one needs to serve the lord with love and devotion-which will not cause one to recieve karma)

"For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. he is not slain when the body is slain." (bhagavad Gita 2.20)

"However, if our Belief's are attacked, made fun of or if our people are invaded by barbaric arabic religions then Lord Krishna tells every ARJUNA to ARISE and FIGHT for BHARAT, for humanity, for Sanatan Dharma."

"which means bharat saw many "arjunas", like shivaji, guru nanak, gurkhas, rajputa's, etc etc. Ofcourse, not all hindu's like you decided to become arjuna's and therefore we still have the sulla and xian problem in bharat.

"A Hindu doesn't worship idols or graven images."

Yes Mother India must be defended at all cost but it is not within good human reasoning or simple common sense to work up a desire to do it by bloodshed which your can damn your souls to further pain and misery. India's greatest and most immediate threat is not Islam or Christianity, it is her ignorant masses of idol-worshippers, revilers of the Vedas. It is such sins, that create the worst and lowest conditions of human misery, evident by her destitute majority.

The battle India desperately needs to fight must be to enlightened those brothers and sisters (Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Jains, etc.), who were led astray by false dogmas, to the fold of the once great religion of the past, the Vedic religion as propagated by Maharishi Swami Dayanand Saraswati.

Yes I am a patriot, but first a patriot of true Dharma. It is quite clear then, that when you do not have the desire to save your own soul, you will not be able save India.

A fool may able to see nonsense when out of ignorance, but one who is intelligent follows scriptures after assimilating the purpose behind them.

I say we are not the body because it is in scripture. I don't make these things up.

Vj ~ And where is this "spiritual world" located?
The spiritual world is far outside this material world which is 1/4 the creation of the Lord, 3/4 is the spiritual world.

What is the source of the knowledge of the Gita?
The gita was spoken to by the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna to his friend Arjuna more than five thousands years ago in the battle of Kuruksetra. Since it has emenated directly from the lips of the Supreme Lord ii is infalliable.

Can "love and devotion" alone free us from the material world?
There are some other process which will give one liberation.

Some follow the process by which they can be absorbed into the bodily rays of the the Supreme, Brahman, commiting spiritual suicide. This is because one experiences no bliss while there although there is eternity. But if one is fortunate, he worships the Lord with love, which upon being pleased by the devotion of his servant, the Lord awards him libertation as one of his eternal associates in the spiritual world.

Why avoid this, or have you not read any? Have you read the Gita, if not, then you shouldn't comment on it. That is unintelligent.

Vj- So you are saying that before 5,000 years ago there were no infallable knowledge?
What is this? Just because I put a statement about something that happened you jump to conclusions. Did I say there was no knowledge before 5,000 years?

In reference to the rest of your comments they have no value for me to comment upon. I prefer an intelligent talk rather than an attack without value?

You need to pose quotes to prove your points. Thank You! No hard feelings.

"ANDHANTAMAHAH PRAVISHINTI YE SAMBHOOTIM UPAASATE\ TATO BHOOYA EVA TE TAMO YA U SAMBHOOTYAAM RATAH." Eshopanihad 12.

"Those who worship the eternal prakriti (matter) instead of the All-pervading God are sunk into the deepest depth of misery and those who worship things born of matter like animals, trees and human beings intead of the one Formless Omnipotent God is sunk in greater misery."

Hello friend -Thursday, 05-Nov-98
"for those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied." (bhagavad gita 12.5)

"one can understand me as I am, as the supreme personality of Godhead, only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciiusness of Me by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God." (bhagavad gita 18.55)

Because if there were just one true religion, all the rest would have disappeared by now.

The fact that there are so many of them and all of them claiming to be the only True one means that none of them is so. As a matter of fact, more and more religion get started everyday.

Moreover, it has caused all the frictions and wars in the name of religions because they try to look down on other religions and convert them to what each of them considered as the true one by whatever means were available to them, whether fail or foul.

To me it not necessary to have any religion at all but for those who do feel that they need it must be free to believe whatever suits them without anyone else imposing their choice.

As the saying goes: religion is as important for a man as a bicycle is for a fish.

Have a peaceful and joyous day.

The fact that there are so many of them and all of them claiming to be the only True one means that none of them is so. As a matter of fact more and more religion get started everyday.
Couldn't it be since they all oppose each other, there is one true religion?
NO. If you have studied Mathematics or Logic, you may have heard the term called "reductio ad absurdum" as a method of proving hypotheses. This is a very strong method to disprove an incorrect hypothesis.

Vj- Shouldn't it be that one should know truth from falsehood and then free to make one's choice?
Yes, but how do you tell what is false and what is true?

And if you already know what is true then there no choice to be made.

Choices are made only if there are more than one item to choose from.

This question has bothered rational beings forever but Gautam Buddha was to the first to handle it very admirably and his solution still holds true.

What he found out is that there are are many questions which do not have any final answers (and may never have one) but that does not mean that you have to give up every thing till you have the answer.

We have seen that science has come up with many answers to the questions which could not be answered earlier but it seem the more we know the more questions keep arising.

It is no use continuing any further discussion since you keep going back to same point again.

In my view, only insanely paranoid person is sure of everything.

If you believe you have all the answers, so be it.

Bye.

You will remain idiot as ever.

It is you wrote who the first idiotic message to me and now bark the above sentence.

There was question of riddance since you did not have to answer my message at all if you had any common sense.

P.S.
About my earlier message of holiday greetings I meant every word of it. Many were saved from drowning by a punch in the face, it was not intended to hurt them but to save them. If you are truly a man of reason treat the offensive language as a punch and perhaps one day you might thank me saving your soul. May God inspire you to this truth.

Sita: However, I do believe that you're misguided in labelling Hindus as idol-worshippers.

Sita: What's wrong with worshipping God in differen forms?

Sita: It helps us to realise Him. Many Hindus are serious about knowing God and act in a moral and reasonable manner.

Sita: You are simply an atheist and anti-Hindu to begin with. It's no use having a discussion with you or trying to explain how Hindus worship and reach God. Your link has been removed from our site. Quit trying to tell others what God is and isn't!!!! I'm going to delete any more e-mail from you.

You are too closed-minded to moderate this board.
A few minutes ago this Vijaya Singh again posted on this forum. His message was basically a transcript of the e-mail and guestbook messages I sent him,

after, which he wrote his anti-Hindu atheistic ideas of what God can and can't be and how Hindus should not worship the Devatas.

The point is, Hindus do not agree with Vijaya and many have been insulted by what he writes.

He is welcome to his own opinions but I do not feel it is in the best interests of the Hindus on this forum to have their beliefs attacked by an atheist.

I think he will understand that his post was deleted for a good reason. I hope we will not be bothered again.

Jhat Hindu reply to Bharat Mata. -
I am reminded that we should keep the owner of ONE TRUE RELIGION WEBSITE away from HINDU UNITY Website because he INSULTS?? Lord Shiva.

Why should the insult of Lord Shiva, under any intellectual pretext, shouldn't boil your blood?

He is against MURTI PUJA - BLIND IDOL WORSHIP.

He is against most Hindus and Hindu dharma. He, and perhaps you, fail to understand that Hindus don't worship murti but worship God through murtis. He is against this very approach. The very claim that Hindus indulge in idol worship, blind or otherwise, is insult enough.

Dayanand Saraswati whether we like it or not was one of the greatest reformers of our Hindu Society

No doubt about it. In fact, I have been shocked at this forum that when Bud called Swami Dayanand Saraswati a fraud, a liar and what not, none of the Jawans of Hindutva here felt the urge to even politely caution that gentleman. However, even Dayanand Saraswati cannot be considered Brahman.

Please understand that Vijay Singh belongs to an extremely rare and extremist fringe group of Arya Samaj and hardly any group of Arya Samaj approves of his ideas, interpretation or style. Even Vijay Singh admits that his views are not backed by most prominent Arya Samajis. He was banned from Hindunet.org forums and hardly anybody visits his site now.

Hello Ahmed Khan - Sunday, March 18, 2001 2:21 PM
Subject: Some facts for your web site Dear Sir, it has been interesting viewing your web site and its many articles about the different religions. As far as I’m concerned i don’t mind if you highlight religions and their short comings, what i do mind is that the history and philosophy of noticeably two religions you mentioned are not accurate. The two I’m concerned about are Sikhism and the other being Hinduism.

Your attempt at sarcasm regarding his (Guru Nanak) knowledge is simply pathetic and makes you look like an ignoramus. He was a very learned man and knew the sacred Vedas very well.

Also you call your self Aryan? May i ask from where you originate? As if you are from a place other than Punjab, Kashmir, Iran, or Germany, than you are nothing of the kind my friend, as these are the only proven places of Aryan racial settlement. Even recent genetic experiments in the University of Philadelphia, USA, have proved this hypothesis.

Whatever the case you should get you facts right before you write a so called history of certain religions.

However, I must praise you for the work on Islam as you have clearly proven this fraudulent religion to be a falsehood. Well done! I used to be a Muslim my self but realized that it was a lie.

Also I have great respect for the Vedas, they are very wise indeed, so to do many Sikhs and Hindus. Any way please open your mind and with a clean conscious think about what you write and write it properly as FALSE (write the truth only) statements will offend! Thanks, otherwise Good Site!