"TRUTH IS ONE AND SAINTS SAY IT IN MANY WAYS."

Offensive posts do not convince any one.

It only invites offensive reaction.

Put across your arguments in a civilized manner and further the debate.

It does not mean that Islam started 1400 years ago as you seem to think. I don't know how someone who wishes to debate about religious issues could have such a shallow knowledge of the topic he is talking about.

The Qur'an in many places refers to the Prophets along with the followers of those Prophets who came before Muhammad as being Muslims. This religion began with the first man - Adam - and continues until the Day of Judgment. Everyone, in every era of time has had an equal opportunity for salvation. Allah says in the Qur'an: "We sent to EVERY NATION a Messenger, saying: 'Worship Allah, and shun false gods.'" (16:36)

Hello MFRahman - August 06, 1998
"He is sowing what he will reap if he believes in what he proposes."

"What you sow, so shall you reap."

: Dissemination is good. It is not the same thing as castigation, which is what you have been doing.

Are you admitting your sins? I hope so because it would be the first step on the road to forgiveness. As far as the "truth" goes, the way arrogant way in which you have been speaking to folks on this board and on your own does not inspire in me any interest in your beliefs. You have distorted your religion andthe religion of others into a forum for your anger and rage.

Intelligent people understand the difference between sincere people who are genuinely searching to bring peace into their lives and into the world in which they live, and those who use religion to further their desire for power and money. You can use your ability to disseminate to learn the difference.

"Being the only one who" knows the truth" is either the province of a prophet (which you most definitely are not) or of a psychotic."

Abu Dawud's Hadith is the third most respected Hadith in Islam. Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah (Muhammad) married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old." Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116

"I am sorry for you --"

"and can only hope and pray that you will arrive somehow to a place of sanity; that you will discover your humanity and in that discovery will feel the compassion that everyone deserves -- including those you do not agree with or understand.

my behavior is determined by my own values and sense of discipline.

"My response to this is that if I encountered it I would, but I haven't on this board. Anyway, I believe that profanities from any source are screened on this board. I was addressing your manner of attacking others."

"All religions have at one time or another have been used by the greedy and the power hungry to justify murder and pillage.

As far as Islam goes, no one has ever held a sword over my head.

"I have read and Muslims have used reason. Millions have converted of their own free will."

You contradict yourself. Re-read what you wrote and then your response to my response.

"I don't know what you are talking about. No one, as far as I am aware has cloned me."

"As far as changes for the better, much of the discussion on this board is a shinning example of the kind of constructive and respectful exchange which is possible between groups and individuals who do not agree.

"The pen is mightier than the sword. Thank God."

Hello rosen - August 20, 1998
VJ the DJ: you see, if people get killed, rape… it is because of bad Karma. May be in their past life they were bad and sinful, and now they have to suffer, so they deserve it?!!

(This is justice, again According to Dj!)

Hello mosen - August 20, 1998
: Hi : U:… being killed for having a different religion. Verily this is one of the biggest lies I've ever heard. I have lot's of Jewish, Christian (Armeni, asory),baha'i and Zoroastrian friends. Their place of worship still exits after hundreds of years, the same as their faith. I've sat, ate and lived with them. We live in peace and harmony together, here. Of course, all kind of discrimination exists everywhere and because of uneducated people and their ignorance.

"Many millions of Muslims read the Quran and follow what it says

Hello Natasya - August 25, 1998
I've read you're muslim books...what they called Tafsir Al-Quran, but i've found out that no real love in it. Hmm....why your prophet married a lot of women? They said they take women's status high ...but with this 'polygamy' things....i think wife's heart will be broken when they knew their husband will be having a new wife.

Hello SAM HAKNEY - August 26, 1998
the verses you brought from the quran were talking about men and women accused with adultery by their spouse.

i hope it will be clear to you one day that you are not a seeker of the truth. you are only making a mockery of holy books.

yet, one day , and that day is coming to you , you will regret greatly playing with the scripture words to make a false accusation to blind people from the truth.

vj- sadly. you might think it is funny.(but only for now!!)

for info: The penalty for the rapist is death. Raped women do not need four witnesses. I challenge you to bring the verse about rape! then, people(and may be yourself) will see who you really are.

"When I closed the second volume of the Prophet's Biography', I was sorry that there was no more for me to read of that great life. I was more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for pledges, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in Allah and his own mission."

You really do lack a sense of History, you fail to recall that when Britain and her tag team Partner (America) committed genocide on thousands in India,

"you fail to recall that it was the Muslims and Hindus united that removed the two oppressors. Your hate towards everyone, even innocent children is simply evil.

Vj ~ Hitler probably took his lessons from the Mohammad since he called for the annihilation of all unbelievers and he himself led his followers into battle against the Jews.
: Wrong again dumbo, Hitler took his lesson during Bible classes:- Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered April 12, 1922, and published in "My New Order"

Muhammed (pbuh) fought against those Jews who had betrayed the Muslims a number of times and always wanted to give Muslims trouble!!

"And yes Muhammed (pbuh) did marry a Jewess, not because of LUST, but in order to make it possible for the jewish tribe to enter Islam in an honorable manner,.."

Vijai - I don't know why you complain of Hitler's atrocities against Jews, since it would have meant a greater state for Isreal which would have been a greater pain to the Islamic Arab world. "It may be an issue of joy for you. Not for us."

Finally, you disgust me!!!

Where have you been thumb sucking this lie that Muhammed (PBUH) was caught cheating!!

Hafsa, one of the Prophet's wives, who caught him having intercourse with Maria in Safiya's room. 'O Prophet of God, in my room and in my day!'said Safiya angrily. Afraid of the anger of his other wives, and especially Ayesha, he promised Hafsa never to touch Maria again if she would keep the incident secret (Ibid., p. 213). But she spoke out, and the Prophet immediately received orders from God to retract his promise to Safiya; he then resumed relations with Maria (Sura 66:3).

and (Ayesha) went to live with the prophet (PBUH when she was 19!!

The Palestinians were kicked out of there homes during the creation of Israel! Before that, Muslims and jews were living side by side peacefully! The palestinians are fighting to get back their land and get on with their lives.

I can’t believe how they are allowing you to make out right lies against Islam in such a disgusting manner!

I made the following comment "Finally, you disgust me!!!" after responding to your piece of trash and garbage!! bellow is the entire response. And yes, after reading some more of your newly recycled trash, which is not even worth refuting, I still say YOU DISGUST ME!!!

Hello Mohamed Ghounem - August 30, 1998
Geneva, 20-27 July 1997 The Politics of the Caste System and the Practice of Untouchability The Hindu religious belief that" ALL HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT BORN EQUAL" is deeply entrenched in the psyche of the upper-caste Hindus, leading them to see themselves as a superior race destined to rule and the out-castes (the Untouchables or Dalits) an inferior race born only to serve. This system, which has resulted in the destitution of millions of people due to racial discrimination, has not changed one iota after 50 years of Indian independence.

you right, stay alive, you will be richer, your quantity will be

more then the other pagans, and all your fellow pagans would not come to your aide.

I myself would like to thank you, you have taught me that a pagan is one of the most disgusting creatures in the world. A creature that calls it JUSTICE that his or her own kind suffer and starve and die and get raped.

If you do not care about your own kind And Prevent others for caring for them, then it is obvious the vedas is from the Devil.

In Reply to emir on September 02, 1998
Greetings all, I do not intend to offend anyone, but I truly wonder how Christians believe that Jesus is god (as some Christians think, in one way or another - I realize the differences among Christians as to the concept of God) and that therefore

Due to the expanding of the Universe, and the unavoidable demise of our planet as foretold in Holy Scripture, what will then become of your Caste system when there is no more life on earth?

The Torah, the Gospel, and the Qur'an all one after the other Warn of the Day of Judgment, and that it will come at a time that Only God knows.

Although your system is operating under the notion Albert Einstien failed at, which was thinking the world would not change, that it would stay this way consistently, which with the help of telescopes (which the most primitive ones were not available until the year 1104) proved that the Universe is indeed changing and expanding.

What God does or does not do is speculation which can not be proven, I agree that God is eternal, that does not mean his creation must be eternal, we are told:

"The mosques of Allah shall be visited and maintained by such as believe in Allah and the Last Day, establish regular prayers, and practice regular charity, and fear none (at all) except Allah. It is they who are expected to be on true guidance." (Holy Qur'an 9:18). For centuries after the Holy Qur'an, the Muslims on pure Faith, believed that one day the world would come to an end, but since the discovery in 1925 by Edwin Hubble, not only do we go by Faith, but we also Have scientific proof that the world will come to an end.

If your reward for your behavior in this life is not materialistic possessions, and instead it is a higher level of intelligence, then again, the low caste may have a IQ level much higher then the Brahmin (Priest caste) or Kshatriya (ruling caste), or Vaishya (business caste), or Sudra (menial caste). If the happy untouchable (low caste) has a higher level of intelligence and understanding than any of the other caste members, then again who is being rewarded? As you know, even among the Brahmin (Priest caste) there are some more wise then the other, wisdom is not limited to the rich.

In Reply to Mohamed Ghounem on September 03, 1998
"You claim that the Milk in Heaven would spoil due to lack of containment, now this is where you lack the Faith in Believing that God can do anything, the Rain, the Wind, the Stars, if God has the Power over all these forces, then Surely God has the Power to keep Milk fresh.

"2. Now I will make this brief, both reincarnation and a Divine Heaven can not be 100% proven, so to the issue at hand is your claim that reincarnation is better then a Divine Heaven."

"I think it is a reward that the Low Caste's heart can be filled with joy over a piece of bread while the rich hindus in India are miserable if their large meals are not cooked right, and even after their stomachs are full, they are not thankful."

"Well, if humans already knew the world was expanding, some one certainly didn't tell Albert Einstien.."

"..not to mention the Greeks who were some of the first people to attempt to describe various cosmological phenomena."

"Now can you provide quotes from the Vedas regarding the Creation of the Universe and it's relation to Scientific proven Facts?"

"The intelligent person knows when you die, your body goes to the Grave.."

"If Allah can make Fresh milk come out of the Hot Belly of a cow, what Makes you think Allah can not keep milk fresh in Heaven ?

"When you are resurrected, your entire life and the time waiting in the grave will all seem like one single hour or even less.

Intelligence as well as ignorance is present in all races, classes and creeds.
"I am glad you agree."

"If they all have intelligence and they all have happiness then what you are saying they lack is a book on auto mechanics?

"Well, if humans already knew the world was expanding, some one certainly didn't tell Albert Einstien.."

: Perhaps they are behaving like you and not giving quotes from the Vedas to prove your claims as requested.

Is it so hard to find a quote for me, did you even read the Vedas ? now if you a polytheist would like to discuss with us then kindly be courteous enough to provide quotes.

: Now the rest of the statement which you cut out is that the Ancient Egyptians believed the souls go to Heaven, not back to this earth, so the Vedas which came After the teachings of the Ancient Egyptians is obviously at odds with all other Theological teachings.

The only difference is the way you rephrase your questions to try to avoid accepting Truth. Initially you claimed that the milk would _spoil_ because it is not refrigerated. Now that I show you that Allah can keep milk Fresh in the Hot 90 Degree stomach of a Cow, you now point to the Major difference between the Belly of a Cow and Heaven which of course you are the only one world wide who knows of this difference.
1. The Cow is a Clear sign for humans of God's omnipotent Power, there is a entire Chapter in the Holy Qur'an entitled "The Cow"
2.You yourself as a Vedas follower considers the cow a scared holy creature.
3. Finally, if God can keep milk fresh in Hot Fluid locations on earth (cows belly) what makes you think God can not keep milk fresh in a warm fluid location above?
Your double standards are a bit too obvious.

You don't smell it if your dead. When all the bodily functions cease to exist, they no longer fulfill their duties, have you seen a dead person talk ?

Vj ~Intelligence as well as ignorance is present in all races, classes and creeds.
I am glad you agree."
Vj ~ That you are ignorant?"
Returning to your insults I see. Am I ignorant because I give you questions you try to dance around without answering?

Circular arguing again,.."

The original question which you try to avoid by throwing in doctors and mechanics is very simple despite your futile efforts to complicate it.

1. Since money does not bring happiness, what is the difference between a low caste and a high priest?

2. Since both the high priest and the low caste may have Equal mental capabilities, what is the difference between the two?

In conclusion, if there is no major difference in pleasure and happiness and mentality between the caste members, then what is the entire point of the caste system except to have slaves for the rich and justify it with religion ?

For you : your religion and for me : mine.

Truth is what God determines for each.

He determines what is sinful and when it is sinful.

You need to understand His Absolute Omnipotence.

He guides and misguides as He pleases.

All religions are appropriate for their respective peoples to whom they were sent

You will never believe as I believe, and I shall never believe as you believe, if it pleases God.

Stay with your faith, but please understand and observe the propriety of the limits of proselytising. Fraternally.

Mr. Vijay Singh is an inveterate opponent of Islam, and kind words do not deter him any more than rebuke.

I and several others have had very frustrating experience with him on another M/C Discussion board now closed, and the experience has been an exercise in futility.

Mr. Singh resorts to falsehood and absurdities and consistently contradicts himself.

He does not state his own beliefs plainly, and has the singular objective of discrediting Islam.

I have found all his statements on simple matters to be false, even what he said concerning his nationality and land of residence.

I have found no reason to hold further discussions with him since he refuses to concede even the most blatant Islamic truths and finds no reserve in blaspheming our Prophet and Religion.

I strongly recommend that the Administrator of this Board carefully reviews Mr. Singh's contributions and remove the offensive posts which will surely follow.

He is incapable of keeping the thread of a discussion and changes tangentially sidetracking only to confound.

I concede that he is entitled to his views such as he holds, but have no wish to hold discourse with him no matter how provocatively he may present his topics.

In Reply to Thinker on November 06, 1998
"The author of the above is a minority of one.."

"..and fortunately unique in his warped view."

He has convinced himself of the perfection of his distorted thinking and so is beyond human hope.

He is of course free to his insanity, and one can only wish him truth.

In the meantime, he already is all that we wish sincerely to call him.

And a word to the wise is enough. Try at least to be wise.

"Speech is silver but silence is gold. And if you think your speech to be golden, then your silence is priceless." (Silence).

In Reply to Thinker2 on November 07, 1998
If all the Muslims in the world were warped and delinquent, that would yet have no impact upon Islam.

Hate for Truth seems natural for this V.Singh who burns in his own malice.

His sick mind can only appreciate like things. Truth and Goodness are alien to him, hence his diatribes against the Religions of the world.

I hope the webmaster leaves this garbage he has deposited long enough for it to discredit him properly.

Singh can only spend out of his purse what he has in it. Clearly he only has hate.

In reply to Ammar - October 28, 1998
"Vijay Singh" = "Victory for Shaitan"

His work is nothing base on facts. He insulted every religion ..

...and even contradicts his own beliefs.

I've been following his works. He comes to any web board with very wicked intentions.

Brothers of all religion, : Please ignore his discussion and his fake reasoning.

He is a clear cut fraud. Don't be deceived by his low intellect arguments.

Just watch his work, for the truth will surely be revealed.

In reply to muslima - October 24, 1998
Subject: Re: Hijab: A blatant disrespect for women.
Dear Sir, I don't know where you live but I live in the US and the law certainly is not a deterrent against crime which is evidenced in the fact that we have the highest murder/rape/child molesting rate in the Western world.

As a woman I can tell you, the hijab is a virtue it is not a means for disrespecting women.

Women disrespect themselves by allowing themselves to be the objects of men, using their sexuality as a means of getting ahead.

A beautiful woman never gets traffic tickets and never buys her own drinks and it is a joke yet it is quite true.

In Islam prevention is better than a cure, rather than waiting for these problems to occur and then running around looking for a solution, Islam from the beginning puts these laws as a means of protecting the individual and the society.

Let us not forget men are also subject to a dress code, no short pants, no tight clothes, no gold ,no silk.

In the quran a book revealed 1400 years ago female infanticide is strictly forbidden, and the Prophet Muhammad put special emphasis on girls in his traditions.

Your argument has no validity, and frankly as you are a man, and not even a muslim at least, it is really not your issue.

This is something that directly affects the lives of muslim women like myself so please take you case somewhere else because it does not fly here.

You sir are a liar and a very bad one at that.

Men can have up to four wives but this is with conditions that have to be first met, otherwise it is not allowed.

How many times have I turned on the tv and seen American women complaining about their cheating husbands, even our first lady has been confronted with this problem. Adultery leads to the destruction of the institution of the family, illegitimate children who are more prone to drop out of school, be involved in drugs, and have problems with the law. Widows and divorcees are in many cultures and societies shunned, especially in rural communities, so who should take care of them?

Is it better to let them shack up with a married man, have children from him and then when he dies his illegitimate children will inherit nothing, they will have no identity. Is this a better case? Is it better for a man to go out a cheat on his wife? Is adultery a more favorable condition than marriage?

You slander against the prophet

You are a true sign of your dispicable character, if your way is the truth, why do you have to try so hard to bring down other religions in order to prove your point?

Why do you have to try so hard?

You know every week in our mosque we have people coming to ask about islam. We don't invite them, we don't pull them off the street, and we don't make our case by insulting their beliefs. Many of these same people came back to convert to islam, again of their own free will.

This site is supposed to be a forum for people to come and learn, a place to promote understanding.

Your intention is obviously a dubious and pathetic one, I notice on your web page there is no discussion forum, or guestbook. Why not? I guess you prefer to talk and not to listen.

It is a sad commentary on your part, you seem to have a very high opinion of yourself,

your arrogance no doubt will be your downfall.

Oh yes and you deleted my comment about favoring of boys among the hindus of India, how convenient for you.

Once again here we see your failure to separate hadeeth from the Quraan. Hadeeths are 95% false.

The Quraan 100% correct, according to Orthodox followers of Islam.

Vj ~The Q'uran also says milk flows in a river when intelligent people know that milk turns sour with the slightest contamination. Is this also a propaganda against your Q'uran?
This is a description of Heaven.

Perhaps there will not be bacteria as we know it now on Earth.

After all we are going to live there forever, according to the Quraan.

So the aging process stops too.

On that day the rest of the World will also be at Peace and worship the Lord of the Israelites, recognizing Mohammad as the last Prophet of the One true God.

Hello Perazzishooter - July 12, 2000.
My dear Vj, Vj you have made a lot of accusations against Mohammad and the Quraan.

It has already been explained that followers of the Quraan do not believe what you say they believe.

you have a deep rooted irrational hatred, fear and anger towards ALL followers of the Quraan and Mohammad.

Am I right to think that you feel that there is not a single rational follower of the Quraan, Gospel or the Hebrew Bible in the World?

That possibly you are the only rational person born on the face of this Earth [and of course those that fully agree with you]?

You claim that you are not as bad as a suicidal Islamic bomber. However, how do we know?

You are obssessed with unrealistic fantasies about Prophets molesting 6 year olds, why?

In reply to Brother Rahman - October 24, 1998
Vj ~ I have said it before and I will say it again. If religion is truly meant for mankind's happiness, it has certainly failed you.
I must give you credit for the excellent command of the English language, now, why can you not use it to reason even a little bit, that true religion can in no way bring unhappiness to those who diligently adhere to its principles.
You have spent a lot of time reproaching me as vile and in contempt of your religion but you are yet to put up a rational argument. It will be against my better judgment to bring false accusations against anyone, but it is a travesty to truth to ignore innocent souls whom I know are virtually caged in unrighteousness.
My religion does not forbid me to look into other religions, since it is the only way truth can be ascertained and this is what I call true religion.

Posted by Palakad - July 20, 1998
Krishnadasa, You're right it's all there. It's amazing the knowledge the Srimad Bhagavatam has it has the Most information about God.

In reply to Saeedhameed - October 18, 1998
"When the time of destruction is at hand the intellect becomes perverted." Vridha Chan. 16:17.
"In fact my Brother Yahyah has already shown you the Way you are looking for. I pray Allah He guides you.

"I would just want to add some further information to your sayings about Muslims and Islam. You say Islam invaded and subjugated India. I will say it was not Islam but Mulsims.."

And I can safely say that it was because of the provocations of indian who used to persecute Muslims going to pilgrimage.

"Then in fact it was not the first time Indian was "invaded". 1500 before the Christian Era the Arians (white skinned people) came there from Europe and established Hinduism with all its discriminations that has no precedent in Human history, as we can still see today, and this against local dark skinned people, whose status is according to your books lower than those of animals."

"Islam contribution to India have very positive.

Millions freely came into its fold from Hinduism.