Responses:
Dialogue 1
Back to contents
Hello Sandeep Singh Bajwa - (Webmaster of www.sikh-history.com ). - 05-15-2000
"Dayanand was a Gujrati Baniya (just like Gandhi) who tried to destroy the Sikh religion."
Vj ~ How could they be alike, when Gandhi saw all religions as different paths leading to God, and Dayanand's mission states clearly that there is only one true path (Vedic) to God?
"His faith could be described as:
1. Rites and rituals of Havan.
2. Bring back Hindi/Sanskrit.
3. break Manuvad."
Vj ~ It was not "his faith" ( a new dogma as Sikhism) but an existing faith (ancient religion of the Vedas) the source of all ethics, morals and science. He made us aware that we were only straying from this truth and urge us to return to it. It is obvious that God created man a long time, and therefore, he would have handed them instructions before Sikhism was invented.
"He offered no agenda, organization or thought on how to bring back reform in Hinduism."
Vj ~ It was constructive criticism and of course if one must bring reformation, it was necessary to propagate truth and expose what is false. How else we would have known the religion of the Sikhs is false?
"..rather he spent his most of the time in criticizing already established religions."
Vj ~ Think nut-head, if there were already “established religions”, what then was the necessity of a new religion (Sikhism)?
"He could be best described as "HALF LITERATE"!"
Vj ~ Since he only revived the old, it would be those (Nanak, etc.) who brought something new, that can be best described as completely illiterate, especially when "established" religion (as you said) already existed.
"Dayanand in the end was nothing more than a Cunning Baniya who had tried all his weapons against Sikhism."
Vj ~ He was rather clever and wise since he had no need to raise a sword or knife to harm anyone and call it a religious symbol to propagate a religion. He propagated Dharma (wisdom) as a means of self-defence, while elevating the soul, not a sword.
"To read more about such cults and thoughts check out following article."
Vj ~ A cult is a religion (something new - never existed before) founded by a mediator (Guru, prophet, etc.) between man and God. It is Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Jainism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, etc. that is fitting of the occult family. "There is no sin in offending one for one's own good." Swami Dayanand.
"If you say what you believe then Sikhism is the true Vedic religion!!
Vj ~ It is true what I said but it is not even true of what you say of what I said. God is Just, Compassionate and Merciful therefore, true religion must exist from the very beginning of creation for all of mankind, not from 600 years ago depriving those before.
Dialogue 2
Back to contents
Hello lakhvir singh lucky - 05-16-2000
"i was told by a very respected friend of mine to be wary of what we read and hear. he told me never to beieve everything i hear or read."
Vj ~ It is a very good advice. I also have a respected friend who told me to constructively criticize (expose) what is false, because it is the only way the Sikhs can be enlightened to know that the Sikh religion is as false as the others.
"i was judge for myself what is good or what is bad."
Vj ~ Me too, but I am way ahead of you, now that I am not only judging, but I can tell you what is true and what is false.
"mr. vijai singh brings up bashing links in yet another bid to authenticate one religion's supreriority."
Vj ~ It is obvious that if we must established who is the most brilliant child in a class, the intelligence of the others would have to be questioned. The same with religion.
"i have just browsed through those links. i'm not surprised about those links. one who opposes another's faith's beliefs and practices sure has missed the mark of the universality of religions.
Vj ~ Universality comes with one truth which must exists for all ages, not many at different times. Think of it for a moment of the world's predicament - it is all about religion. Even in Sikhism they are bickering among themselves because they are also divided (different sects) on how it must work to bring harmony.
"shocking, i must say, are claims about this 'one true religion' that says every negative thing about other religions."
Vj ~ And don't you think it is even more shocking to know that 99.99% of the world's population dwells in massive ignorance due to these "other religions"? Guru Gobind fought the Muslims because to them, Sikhs, Hindus, etc. are infidels and should be put to the sword. If these negative teachings are alright with a Sikh, then he is ignorant, not to condemn it. But on the other hand, if it needs condemning, then it is justifiable to condemn whatever else is false of all religions.
"my due respect to your beliefs, mr. vijai, but i will desist from speaking anything more in conflict with what you say.
Vj ~ It is obvious conflicts have been going on from the birth of these religions, and to continue to propagate them will certainly lead to more conflicts. It is only constructive dialogue based on the correct knowledge, as propagated by Swami Dayanand, can mankind free themselves from these false prophets to bring universal peace to the world and salvation of the soul.
"it proves only further that religions will never unite. everyone wants the largest share of the DIVINE CAKE but they will never learn to share equally."
Vj ~ So what more proof do you need that all religions do not lead to this "DIVINE CAKE"? Unity comes with one truth, a truth in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws and only the Vedic religion fulfill this role. But you will never know, unless you do your own investigation of it.
"sikhism is my religion and i will follow it to the best of my ability."
Vj ~ There is nothing wrong in being a Sikh, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jew, etc. but it is wrong to remain one without examining the tenets of the others. Your ability to resolve which is true or false will be at its best when you have thoroughly and impartially investigated them all.
"i leave the rest to GOD whether i make it to HIM or not upon the end of my earthly religion."
Vj ~ The Muslims say the same thing too, do you really think it is wise for them to leave the rest to their God, while non-muslims are dying by their swords. If such is the case why did Guru Govind took up arms to fight Muslim tyranny? Why did he not also leave it for his God to deal with them?
"i will not believe anything else about what other religions say about my destiny.
Vj ~ No one is asking you to believe in something else, all that is asked, do further investigations of the others only if it is meant to validate yours. This much you must know, God will not do that for you or anyone else with your attitude.
"only GOD will decide for me and i know that my guru will lead me.
Vj ~ A Muslim says the samething of his prophet too, if both of you are right, then there would have been no need for your religion.
"i leave behind all my ego and sin and seek support of my faith and not another's. once again, my due respect to all religions in the world."
Vj ~ How did you leave your ego behind when you respect all religions without investigating them all? It means some could be going to hell while you are busy showing respect. Is this what you call sensible?
Dialogue 3
Back to contents
Hello sbajwa - posted 05-16-2000
"Sikhism existed before the creation!!! and was started by Waheguru aka God aka Ram aka Allah aka Yahweh."
Vj ~ Aum (Vedic) is not only the first God of creation, but the only the true God and you haven't even mentioned Him. It is Guru Nanak who invented the sikh religion 600 years ago, Hinduism is 4000 years old, Islam is 1400 years old and Judaism - 2600 years, and creation is billions of years old so why only a few thousand years ago religion came into being.
"Sikhism means "Disciplism" or "student". All Sikhs are students of their Guru."
Vj ~ In the beginning there was no such thing as "Sikhism" so what were students called and who were their Guru?
"Guru Gobind Singh did not fight with Muslims but Mughals (or any Sikh do not fight with Muslims or Hindus because of their different religions).
Vj ~ But the Mughals were Muslims and fought on the premises of Q'uranic instructions to plunder (spoils) and that if they die they would go to Paradise and enjoy virgins, rivers of wine, milk, honey, and other wealth.
"Guru gobind Singh fought injustice!!"
Vj ~ Very true, but the injustice came from Islam as instructed by the Q'uran and yet you respect such a religion.
"Just like Sikhs in early 1920's fought with you Arya Samajis to keep their distinct Identity!!"
Vj ~ There is a difference since Arya Samaj was trying to instil the correct knowledge into Sikhs so that they don't have to walk around in fear relying on their swords and knives all their lives for protection. The fight with Sikhs was intellectual and not like the Sikh's violent and bloody struggle against the Muslims.
"You guys are nothing but same old people of Manuvad trying to destroy the faith of Nanak from India (after having already destroyed the faiths of Jain and Buddha from India)"
Vj ~ Come to think of it, it was perhaps for the good of India where she is no longer subjugated by foreigners, and now strong enough to defend her borders. The struggle for freedom from the foreign subjugation started with Swami Dayanand and by any Sikh Gurus. It was the reason why his Light of Truth was banned by the British at one time.
"With your double talk (classic of Baniyas) What is your objective to post on this Sikh forum! If you can't write anything constructive about sikhism then do not post here!! READ THE GUIDELINES!!"
Vj ~ I did, because it is a false religion, I exposed it for all intelligent minds to see it’s faults and thereby for them to accept what is true religion.
"You guys can go destroying your mantras (along with Ghee and other junk) in fire and claim that you know it all!"
Vj ~ It is called Homa - it is the most ancient scientific means of purifying the environment which we are constantly at risk of loosing because of the rotten habits of believers of false religions.
Dialogue 4
Back to contents
Hello sunita - 05-16-2000
"Mr VJ (Don't call yourself a Singh)"
Vj ~ I don't, it is others that call me so, since the purpose of names is for others to identify us by. I am a proud Rajput, who hails from Guyana, South America.
"The "Hindu" Religion...what is it?"
Vj ~ It is better to ask a Hindu or here is my version
"Etymology of the word "Hindu" tells us lots. The word Hindu is derived from "Sindhu" and "Indus".
Vj ~ "Hindu" is a Persian word and it means "stupid".
"Logically the people of Pakistan should be called "Hindus". Right?
Vj ~ And those in the Punjab also.
"So we have a lost people who don't (would you?) even want to live in the country which has their roots?
Vj ~ All this because of false idealogy, the Indians because they are Muslims want their own country and the same with the Sikhs, what more proof do you need that religion not only divides people, but country also.
"Pakistanis are the true Hindus!!!"
Vj ~ Not anymore when they now swear allegiance to Arabia.
"Who is a Hindu? What is a Hindu? Why Hindu? Call yourself a Hindu or a Pakistani? It is the same isn't it?"
Vj ~ Very good questions, the same could be ask of a Sikh and if they are all the same, why invent a new religion.
"Become a Shishya, a Sikh and you will find yourself. Waheguru is beckoning you from within."
Vj ~ If he (Waheguru) is beckoning Sikhs from within, why do they feel so unsafe that they have to walk around with a sword or knife for protection? I prefer the way I am free of swords and knives and never have I felt threatened. This is what the true God has to offer also those who come to Him (through the Vedas) .
Dialogue 5
Back to contents
Hello kenyankalasingha - 05-16-2000
"thank you for your ignorant posts that are full of nothing but your own ego."
Vj ~ You are most welcome. It is obvious, if your "waheguru" had anything like brains he would have sent the Sikh religion in the beginning instead of 600 years ago.
"bask in it and enjoy because you are one of the many like brendan on this website. we know too well who you guys are and what you are up to."
Vj ~ I don't know what the other guy is up to, but if it is the same intention as mine, then he is better off than Guru Nanak, much less an ordinary Sikh.
"i will not attempt to argue with you further in any discussion because i know that you want to win.
Vj ~ I only win because your religion is too spineless to be a threat to my good reasoning. Why give up? Is this the strength of Sikhism to run like cowards in the face of constructive criticism? Are you trying to tell me that there is only courage when you have a sword in your hands, but intellectually Sikhs are cowards?
"my religion teaches me humility and tolerance of all faiths and religions."
Vj ~ Not in British Columbia, where they are killing each other in the battle for control of a temple. It simply shows, that humility lies in wisdom and not in turbans, kirpans and talwaar.
"whatever your religion is seems to be doing the right opposite."
Vj ~ You are right we teach the opposite of false, truth. We teach the highest wisdom (science) of God, the only path to emancipation. While religions like yours bring only pain and misery to your people, country and the world.
"so there you have it. you win, i lose. happy?
Vj ~ If it was a matter of winning or loosing, it would not have been necessary for me to come here disseminating this truth. Man must try to ingrain the proper reasoning habits if he is desirous of ascertaining truth.
Dialogue 6
Back to contents
Hello Jinda - November 26, 1996
The religion of Sikhism is commendable for many good things it has
done for being monotheistic, especially by preventing many hindus from becoming Muslims instead. But however, since India has become more an enlightened nation due to Swami Dayanand and the threat of Muslim tyranny is minimal, Sikhism has now become its own worst enemy to millions of innocent souls who follow it. There can only be one true religion revealed by a just
God in the very beginning of creation for all mankind and for all ages. Any
new religion will be a breach to the attribute of an omniscient God. Religion which is ethics and morals must be harmony with science and in conformity with natural laws, and only one religion (Vedic) fits this qualification.
Arya Samajist crap is the last thing you can foist on me. Did you read
the "Satyarth Prakash"?? It is one of the most racist kind of stuff one
could come across. And, for a starter, apply Paine's ideas to the Vedas too. Apply your own reasoning to the Vedas if you know what you;re talking about. Sorry for being blunt in response to a politely worded query, but Dayanand Saraswati is the last person I would liek to listen to.
Vj ~ Hello Jinda,
The Vedic Dharma has taught me to conquer all sins of which one is anger.
In all earnestness I am not perfect at them yet, but I am making a very
strenuous effort. If your webpage is for all to view and read then you must
welcome criticism. I do not blame you for being angry for I know that all
the religions of the world professed to teach love, peace and harmony,
but yet hardly the devotees can live up to these simple principles. Why?
Because all the religions of the world are false dogmas and as long as there are
contradictions there will always be a battle on to protect it. History is
fill with such wars of the dark ages of the church.
I know what I am talking about my friend and that is the reason for my
page. One must be impartial and not bias when discussing a subject.. Vedic
dharma is not Dayanand Saraswati he was only a disseminator. But as always,
preaching the truth will foster hate and anger and as a result he was
poisoned. This is the age of Kalyug; it is the law of nature for the truth
to be suppressed and the results are horrendous pain and misery that we are
now witnessing. I welcome any question you may have, my friend and I will answer them
with all humility.
Dialogue 7
Back to contents
Hello js singh - March 06, 2001
dayanand was nothing but full of hatred towards ALL.
Vj ~ How would a fool know what Dayanand was all about? If there is dislike in wise men, it would be your kind of ignorance and I see nothing wrong in that.
admit it he was nothing but a bigot.
Vj ~ If he was a bigot he would have introduced something new and lay claim to Gurudom as Nanak did, but instead he knew better and unselfishly revived the ancient Vedic religion which was already there.
There was no tolerance in the man. Tolerance is what we measure the level of ones civility.
Vj ~ So why don't Sikhs throw away the Granth Sahib, if tolerance makes them civilized. guru granth sahib jee is the thing which makes tolerant of others.
Vj ~ Sikhs like Muslims are divided and killing each other. Look what is happening in B.C.'s Sikh community; and if bombing a plane killing 400 innocent people is the tolerance of the Granth Sahib, you would be better off looking for another book.
I have tried to read his sickening books but usually his writing are very low level and don;t say much abouty humanity.
Vj ~ Perhaps like your Guru Nanak, you are an illiterate who knows little of the language. Any way if Sikhs can read as much as they like to sing, they perhaps may be able to reason a little. And if his writing is "low-level" then it is appropriately a merciful act to help even the most ignorant (low-level) sikhs.
OTHERWISE maybe we would have finished arya samajees a long time ago.
Vj ~ You can finish "arya samajees" but you can't destroy truth which in the end destroys all idiots like you. Idiots like Nanak die a thousand deaths before death and still after that reincarnated into animals to continue the misery they have brought on innocent souls. And when you continue to protect him and his religion you also will become an idiot to suffer the same faith.
BUT time is coming when it will happen.
Vj ~ Talk about the short-fused tolerance of the Granth Sahib! Whenever that time comes it will be another religion and the death of Sikhism.
they say a jackal goes to city when its death is nearby.
Vj ~ Must be true there are a lot of Sikhs flocking to live in big cities? Aryas have awakened us! WHAT a mistake!!
Vj ~ Yes the Aryas have awaken India, now both Hindus and Sikhs have the will to fight against anarchy. The mistake is, you are still an ignorant Sikh going to 'hell', awaken from freedom of foreign subjugation, but still not awoken from ignorance! "Those (Sikhs) who live by the sword shall die in ignorance by the sword and those who die for truth (Aryas) are rewarded with heavenly bliss and if they survived they still enjoy earthly riches. The choice is yours my friend. Just a suggestion, why not post on my messageboards, so that others can see how great the Sikh religion is and how tolerant you are in defending it?
Dialogue 8
Back to contents
Hello jsingh - March 07, 2001
it is not karda it is kirpan. sheesh talk about ignorance!
Vj ~ It shows more ignorance to correct what is ignorant in the first place. Man found God long before the Sikhs found the kirpan (sikh religion) so if the kripan was of no benefit to those in the past what good is its use now in symbolizing spirituallity.
It shows more ignorance to correct what is ignorant in the first place.
you might believe that if your religion promotes ignorance . For example only pundits should be able to read and right according to shastras. We don’t promote ignorance. SOrry!
Vj ~ Very true, Hinduism (Brahamins) is responsible for the fall of India, but inventing a new religion (Sikhism) is not the answer. It only divided India further. If you have the good sense to reason as I am doing, you would go back to the original that was once India's glory.
Man found God long before the sikhs found the kirpan (sikh religion) so if the kripan was of no benefit to those in the past what good is its use now to find spirituallity.
wow you are saying that???
Listen to bulley shah [muslim] who wrote about kirpan bearer guru gobind singh jee!
"na kahoon abh kee,---------------i wont talk about now
na kahoon tabh kee;---------------i wont talk about then
Agar na hotey gobind singh,---but if there was no guru gobind singh
to sunat hoti sabh kee!!!---------everybody would have been circumcised!!!
Vj ~ Guru Nanak and Guru Gobin Singh did some good for India no doubt, but India and the Punjab is still dreadfully divided by hatred due to religions. There can be no peace for India or the world as long as new religions keep springing up. that was then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!there would have been no hindus in india!! It still makes us free and bold in believing our faith. With kirpan we are only answerable to god--nobody else!! IF you dont believe me then ask indira gandhi. WE will die but wont bend.
Vj ~ Indira Gandhi did what she had to do, but in the end it didn't matter since the belief as Hindus and Sikhs is that , she and her asssasins have gone to their respective heavens. The fact remains, whose paradise is real? Somebody is fooling somebody and you will find my site the most rational way of finding out who is right, that is, if you are not stupid to reject before you investigate. unless a mind has protection it cant worship! ask 200 million muslims in india [who used to be hindus]! had the hindus used kirpan they would have saved indian-hindu honor before sikh alas! the could not so sikhs saved hindu honor.and you dont know that!what a shame!!!
vj ~ What good is there in Sikhs saving Hindus' honor when they all are going to hell (pain and misery)? Sikhs and Hindus are still no better off than when Muslims or the British ruled India, as they are yet to be freed from the ignorance that cause their subjugation.
Dialogue 9
Back to contents
From: "Vrinder Singh" vr1nd3r@hotmail.com
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 3:55 PM
Subject: There is only one god, whom i shall not forget!
Hi i dont think you will reply of this soon but i would like to understand
ur point of view. But i have read ur stuff but cannot understand u.
Vj ~ Some of us are very fortunate to understand at a glance, some later after trying, but unfortunately some will never. Since you belong to one of the last two, it is obvious you have a lot of work to do.U question all religions but for example havn't understood sikhism at all.
Vj ~ Perhaps it is not a religion to be understood at all by any one sensible. There is no doubt that you understand it either since you have not investigated the others.How can u argue about religion when no religion in the world can be proven as we cant prove god?
Vj ~ If God cannot be proven then what is the purpose of the Sikh religion (a new religion) when there were many before it. Weren't there enough to learn that more is useless. Religion cannot be proven if there is no desire to impartially and thoroughly investigate them all. U can debate for ever but u shall never find the truth. Sikhism only says that when u have faith u and only u shall know it.
Vj ~ All false dogmas say the same thing, but true religion says that unless your reasoning is guided by the correct knowledge, science and natural laws only then "u shall know" what is false or blind.Only the person who get with god will know but he cannot still prove it, as
he cant imagine god. One will never understand why others follow a certain
faith and one who does shall regret it. The true religion is the worship of
God!
Vj ~ Why worship a God, whose existence is so difficult to prove? It is not that His existence cannot be proven, but that He cannot be proven to the ignorant. One who prays (worships) once a year to the true God is more blessed than one who prays 5 times a day to a false god(s).Why are there so many religions, why were they created, who created them, who made these people. Which religion is right? when was the earth created. Nobody will ever know but a small message for u.
Vj ~ Correction! No ignorant person will every know, and that includes a sikh buried only in his own blind faith.This is a sikhism saying, u have a thorn of ego stuck in u. It doesn't matter how much u debate or slag other religions its you is cant find peace as its you who cannot except other ways of thinking.
Vj ~ I am already at peace, it is the reason I am fearless and don't have to strap on a sword to contradict all these false dogmas. Yes u may say oh well why were the sikhs formed since they cannot understand the koran or the vedas.
Vj ~ I don't think they even understand their own Guru Grantha, otherwise they would not have been fighting among themselves. But in all religions one will find peace within themselves. I know u shall have a witty comment about what i have typed but do u believe in god?
Vj ~ Even if there is peace in them, it serves no purpose since the followers are too ignorant to put meaning into it to make peace practical. I don't believe there is a God, I know there is a God. In belief there is uncertainty, it is the reason peace is never possible, but when you know there is peace within and that is where peace must begin.If not then we cannot debate and if u do then how is urs right?
Vj ~ Continue to read my site, it will tell you why mine is right and yours false.There is no right, god commands what he wants to happen and all shall happen. You never asked to be put on this earth, yet ur here so prove to me what ur doing here?
Vj ~ God commands (instructions) are unblemished spirituality, but whatever else happen it is our own doing.however u think u will always ebd up at the same question, the same point because what ur saying is just as good as another. Even with ur web site no question about religion has been answered or about god...why beacuse nobody knows only God nows and only he who he wants to know comes to know and nobody. Sorry for such a long email but i hope u understand what im trying to say :)
Vj ~ Of course I understand what you are saying, how else the wise hope to liberate the ignorant from ignorance. The problem is getting the ignorant to understand the wise. If a new a religion is needed, it simply meant that there is something wrong with those before. Hence, it is not sound reasoning to propagate respect for them as Nanak did.
Dialogue 10
Back to contents
From: "Vrinder Singh" vr1nd3r@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 5:52 AM
well maybe ur the ignorant and are blinded by it! I will not sit here and say ur false, by uttering that alone shows ur ignorance and ego.
Vj ~ I not merely uttering your religion is false, I have given you many reasons why it is. God is All-perfect. He cannot and will not intervene in His creation after giving the first humans instructions. Must He do so it would mean that what He first revealed was not perfect. Therefore, your religion is false and Guru Nanak and those that follow were all hypocrites.U arguments have no depth and meaning?
Vj ~ You are right, as long as you chose to remain ignorant (Sikh), you could never see "dept and meaning" in true religion.u say sikhs fight with each other...yes but so do hindu people.
Vj ~ I know that, it is the reason why I contradicted Hinduism also.In our religion it says in the granth sahib, people who merge with god are rare and few so it dosn't mean once ur a sikh ur true. Neither for any religion.
Vj ~ The Vedic religion also said that one must merge with God (yoga) from the beginning of creation, so why do we need a new religion (Sikhism) to tell us the same thing? You also ignorantly say we have to walk with swords, we do not wordhip our kirpans only as a means to defend the innocent and for us to remember our past.
Vj ~ If you need to remember your past why only from 600 years ago, and not from the period of Satyug (golden age) where there were no crimes, wars, diseases and false dogmas? Wouldn't that have been a better incentive for spirituality than a past of tyranny and bloodshed? The 5k have certain meaning but we do not worship them.
Vj ~ Why not read the The Light of Truth if you are looking for meaning? Perhaps I have been right all along, the Guru Grantha Sahib is worthless when comes to spirituallity, the reason why Sikhs would look for meaning else where, in swords, knives, turbans, etc.IN hindu religion you throw water from the ganjis??? to the sun to give it water, guru nanak began to throw water the opposite way. The hindu man said what are u doing, he replied im watering my crops miles away. So there are also many shallow points i could pick out for any religion.
Vj ~ What good is it in picking out shallow points from the others when yours are also full of holes? This is what I meant by true religion, one without shallow points. It is the Vedic religion, let's see how good you are to pick out the 'shallow points'.There is a difference between following a religion and understanding god.
Vj ~ If religion is for the purpose of understanding God, why should there be a difference?We are one, from the same god, if u say god is the creator then u must accept he also creates all, and does all.
Vj ~ We are not from the same God, my creator revealed the Vedic religion in the beginning of creation, while yours showed up only some 600 years ago. Im happy you are happy
Vj ~ How can you be happy when my happiness lies in criticizing what is false, your religion? and i hope you luck in your path to the lord, i shall also continue mine but how can you change the ignorant when the teacher himself maybe suffering igorance?
Vj ~ There is no such thing as luck in my aspirations to seek the truth. One must be prepared to investigate with impartiality if one truly desires to be free from pain and suffering. You are right there is no cure for a fool, but for those who are not yet incurable I am hoping it will make a difference.This shall be my last post whatever u reply i shall read though.Waheguru ji
Vj ~ It seems to me that you are also one of the incurable.oh yeah one more thing heh ok i said u can't prove god, u then replied why
was the sikh faith started if we god cant be proven. If u read what i wrote
i did say only the the person can prove god and only to himself and others
who want to.
Vj ~ How can you prove god, even to yourself, when he only existed from 600 years ago? If ur way is right them why didnt god just create the same color people with the same belief and only one religion. Why do u wear
differnt clothes, have different tastes in music. So then why should there be only one religion.
Vj ~ God did create the same color and same belief, but it is hypocrites like Guru Nanak, Muhammad, etc. who through rejection of the one true religion, brought about unrighteous actions that led to many beliefs, wars, diseases, crimes, races, different clothes, different taste music, etc. You won't know of the good life of your early ancestors because you chose to go as far back as 600 years ago, while true religion takes one back to the very beginning, an era of peace and complete harmony.Again you havn't understood sikhism very well or your own religion as you are very narrow minded. Guru gobind didnt try to make everyone sikh, all the gurus said that we are the same, mohammed was true and so was Imdra, and was Jesus.
Vj ~ Had the narrow-minded Nanak try to understand that the Vedic religion was already in existence, he would not have invented another religion, the cause of pain and misery? The same goes for Muhammad and Jesus, etc. Acording to Muhammad all Sikhs are infidels and according to Jesus, only through him salvation is possible. So what I understand of the Sikh and other false dogmas, each their own heaven. Well it is obvious, if they can't get along on earth, how could they be united in one heaven?All are the same, but thorogh circumstances have developed different colours and races yet not once did any guru say there
religion was greater. If u read the granth sahib 99% of it is about the one lord, forgetting all rituals and remembering one lord. It is nothng new, yes ur right but it was needed at the time beacuse god commanded it.
Vj ~ It shows that Muhammad was smarter a hypocrite, because his revelation proclaim Islam to be "true religion". Islam also commanded Muslims to put the infidels (Sikhs, etc) to the sword. My guess is that it was nothing new, just that it was needed at the time, because god commanded it, right?I know very little as im trying to understand the lord, but the lord as bewitched me
with his ways.
Vj ~ You are bewitched, but it is not by the Lord, but by con-artist Nanak and the other gurus.If ur going to preach that one religion is greater then
another PLZ fully understand what you are saying and not stuff uv read of the
internet about certain religions.
Vj ~ It is greater by reasoning, science and natural laws, and that the ignorant (Sikhs) can reap the same rewards as the wise (Aryas), what else is there to understand?I was digusted when you disgraces Guru
Nanak, mocked the jewish race and im sure u discredited many others.
Vj ~ Then you cannot be a happy man, muchless happy for me. Any religion, prophet, or guru that can be disgraced, is false. Even if I am ignorant as you have often said, then all it takes to bring disgrace to your guru is ignorance. Do you really think truth can be disgraced by any one whether it be a fool or a wise man?If ur religion has taught u anything then why are u egotistic, as if u were shown only a iota of the lord power you would feel smaller then dogs poo.
Vj ~ It is those whose religion and prophets (gurus) can be disgraced that is as pitiful as "dog poo". If your Lord had power, he would not have given you a sword. It simple shows how powerless he is that Sikhs have to fend for themselves. Im sorry im being so attacking toward you but you dont at all seem like u understand your own religion never mind others!!
Vj ~ Since you 'understand' your religion as well as others, and yet become disgusted, why not be like me who don't "understand" any of them, as you said, but never become disgusted.I have no idea if any religion is right or wrong but for me sikhism is right
Vj ~ You are an idiot, if you have no idea of which religion is right or wrong, how could Sikhism be right? If it is right, then you have an idea, it seems you don't know whether you are coming or going.and i dont expect all to think that because the only sikhs will survive but that cant be right, what about christians and jews and muslim, then i cant answer that question but then i have my chosen path just as u have urs.
Vj ~ The atheists have their chosen path also. It had to be their own choice, if it is true, how do you know it is not the same for you. I am not against what one chooses as one's path, but it must be done after impartial investigation of the others.
Dialogue 11
Back to contents
From: "Vrinder Singh" vr1nd3r@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:56 PM
thank you for calling me a idiot
Vj ~ You are most welcome!Ok u call me a idiot you can't answer my questions.
Vj ~ I have to, how else can I convince the sensible that there is no cure for a fool?OK Just because sikhism began 600 yrs ago we did not begin saying that the truth was 600 yrs old, we prey to the timeless being that was hear b4 the creation and will be be hear after he destroys it.
Vj ~ Then it is blind faith! And what was He doing before He created this one and what will He be doing after He destroys it? Did God tell the idiot Nanak that He created the world millions of years ago, but only 600 years ago mankind were deserving of the Sikh religion? Sikhism began as the society in india at this time was corrupt.
Vj ~ It is obvious if the others before became corrupted, Sikhism will be subjected to the same. Perhaps it is already corrupted, since the very ones it claim to be corrupted are still being respected by Sikhs, where the others are advised to follow their own. If society was corrupted, then the prevailing religion (Hinduism) would have to be guilty of it, but since others are encouraged to follow their own, there must be some good in them which means your Sikh Gurus are all idiots. The first 5 gurus preached peace and the final 5 took to the sword. Guru gobind created the khalsa who were pure and had no ritual, creed or caste.
Vj ~ Perhaps if the first 5 had done their work right, the last 5 would not have had any reason to take up the sword. Who only bowed to one god. Sikhism was a way of life, that bought equality to woman as at this time eqaulity was not shown.
Vj ~ If women were denied equal right from the beginning of creation until the Sikh religion, it can be no one else fault but the Sikh god who seek to give them equality only 600 years ago.Sikhism destroyed any thinking of magic,spells, tombs, stars etc. Its aim was to destroy the caste system, and make all equal. sikhs should respect all religion but have deep faith in his own.
Vj ~ Here we go again, the words of idiots. Didn't you say that society became corrupted because of them and yet Sikhs must still respect them? Who in their right mind would believe in this Sikh god that encourages Sikhs to respect corruption? The caste system if properly understood do has its rightful place in society. It is not meant to degrade but to uplift.Honest work was bought into the life style and dawand to the poor. The khalsa had no enemies except of oppression!!! If u parents were to be sliced up skinned alove then i think u would think otherwise.
Vj ~ If parents were sliced up, it was not because of oppression, but the evil work of the Sikh religion. True religion (dharma) protects those who adhered to it's practices and principles, but wherever there is unrighteousness (false dogmas) pain and misery are bound to follow.You should read the story between guru nanak and the yogis he met, u call him stupid but none of them could answer him, they lived in the mountains and preyed alone, saying society was bad, yet they came begging when they need food.
Vj ~ They were Hindu yogis and if Nanak sought anwers from the ignorant, he was was no doubt stupid himself. What guru gobind did by the age of 42, in history took other 400 yrs. He did not simply kill people, just as if somebody stabbed u tomorrow for believing what u believed in, how is that right??
Vj ~ As long as he took to the sword, it simply means that his god could not have protected him or his people. Most certainly injustices is deserving of an end by swords, but to replace injustice with another injustice (false dogma) is even a greater injustice.U think im arguing with you because of what you believe in, u are wrong. I respect what you believe in but im trying to show you that your infomation is messed up.
Vj ~ My belief is the oldest on earth and according to the Sikh religion, as you earlier claimed, it corrupted society, why would you want to respect it?Ok it doesn't matter how hard i type so i will read up on ur religion ok :) i really do wanna and i do read on islam, christianity also so don't think i'm just a person stuck in my born faith.
Vj ~ A sensible person would have done the reading (investigation) first, and then refute or defend. I too was born in a religion, and even though it was the right one, I still rejected it. Rejection of any faith is justified when we are short of understanding of what they hold. It is only then one can be free to investigate without fear.ALso im happy because god makes me happy, i care not of religion or faith not creed but only god.
Vj ~ If man seek happiness they would have to make their own effort to acquire it. I do not call that happiness. You are only happy until some one chastise your religion, Acquiring the correct knowledge and putting it into practice, the result is happiness. God made u and I and all the religions in the world, i dont need to follow any religion but GOD.
Vj ~ If such were the case you would not have come in defence of the Sikh religion. God did not create idiots and religions of idiots.BUt also are u born sikh??
Vj ~ In whatever conditions we are born in, it is God's divine justice, but to remain there without seeking the truth is an injustice to your soul. It matters not what I was, but what I am now.How did u chose ur beliefs? I will read ur reply but this was my last post on religion. It was nice talking with u.
Vj ~ I had to first reject what I was born in to begin ingraining the proper reasoning habits. You would have to do the same. You will be an atheist for while, but it is still better to be one for while than a hypocrite all your life.
Dialogue 12
Back to contents
From: "Vrinder Singh"
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:37 AM
first of all u are very ill informed about guru nanaks work, pls read the japji sahib once and understand what he was saying!
Vj ~ It was the japji, Qur'an, Bible, etc. that I read that convinced me Nanak, Muhammad, Christ, etc. were all hypocrites. You too can do the same, if you strive to ingrain the proper reasoning habits guieded by the correct knowledge. Hhahaha ur religion well may be the olderst to RECORD but if that even matter then pls in the vedas can you tell me when the earth was created and what time is was? what season was it and was ir raining
Vj ~ Sure I can, it was 2 billion years ago and it was summer and sunny where the first habitants were given time to prepare for rain and winter. Here is more if you are truly interested. haha sikhism was created from the faults of the vedas.
Vj ~ It is the one God, which you constantly emphasize that we all worship, who revealed the Vedas, how could it have faults? Furthermore, where are the faults?Sikhism cannot be false beacuse we prey to the same lord as u and everyone as there is only one god.
Vj ~ It must be false since it is the same God who revealed the faulty Vedas, unless he became All-perfect only 600 years ago.The only diff is that we do nor accept any demi god ot mortal as a our saviour, Guru gobind once said, anyone who calls me god shall fall to the pitts of hell.
Vj ~ Well if the ten gurus saw the faults of God, through the Vedas, the cause of Sikhism, they will certainly have to be regarded as the saviours.We only reject ur ways of thinking but only bow to God, who is ur god and who is all's god.
Vj ~ What good is it to bow to this god who cannot offer you protection from the wicked? Could you immagine how terribly deprived innocent people were before the sword was invented?U keep making a stupid issue on the date and time and how recent sikhism is.
Vj ~ How can I not, when you are stupid? It makes sense that it is not God, but your Gurus who are stupid. God did the same now as he was billions of yrs ago and so what he did then he can do now.
Vj ~ My point is, if He is All-perfect and All-powerful, why does He have to do it over and over? Can you see how stupid you people are, that even God must be made to be stupid so that idiots can get to heaven.Time means nothing.
Vj ~ So why did God create time?We only believe to pray to god..bottom line yet we say forget all else, forget mohhamed, forget indra and there are hindereds of indra created by god.
Vj ~ It is good to forget those hypocrites but Nanak and your other Gurus must be included also.Dont u understand, u say we'lkl shall go to to hell but im preying to the same lord u prey to.
Vj ~ No we are not praying to same God, your god fell asleep and woke up 600 years ago, the Muslims 1400 years ago, Christianity 2000 years ago, and so on. Whereas my God is eternal and made Himself known to mankind through the Vedas from the very beginning of creation. Before you pray to God lame-brain, why not first investigate if He is really God. That's all I am saying.I dont do any rituals only remember IKONKAR.
Vj ~ There is nothing wrong with rituals if is done according the sanctions of the Vedas. These rituals existed long before 600 years ago, for the good of creation. I do not recognize ganesh, nor do i accept the quran or the pundits nor any other.
Vj ~ Neither do the Hindus and Muslims recognize Nanak. Could this be the work of this one God you speak about, to divide mankind? I have come to your shelter my lord and i only bow and prey to primal lord who was true in the beginning, who is true now and will certainly be true in the future.
Vj ~ How could he be true in the beginning when Sikhism is only 600 years old? It would make perfect sense if your religion existed from the very beginning, but neither you nor your dumb Gurus know how, when and why and out of what God created the universe? Such imformation would have to come from what existed from the beginning, isn't it?Every one according to his understanding, describes You differently. The limits of Your creation cannot be known, nor how in the beginning You wrought the Universes. (17)
Vj ~ It makes perfect sense, how would you idiots know what occurred in the beginning when your god only gave you your religion 600 years ago? It was interesting chatting with you but i dont care which religion you preach, you have no love for god only for you ego.
Vj ~ True, I have no love for what is false, your god, but I do love all mankind, and it is the reason why I am out to save who wants to be saved. You do not see us as the same but different and u think we have different gods.
Vj ~ I don't "think" your god is different, I know he is (false) because of my impartial investigation into all faiths.Oh yeah and i suppose im going to hell so have a nice life and plz shout i told you so as you mege with god.
Vj ~ Hell is right here on earth, it is the pain and suffering experience everyday through destitution, natural disaster and tyranny, the cause false dogmas (Sikhism). My life is nice, not because you wish it to be so, but because I know the origin of the soul, and I know its final destination with because of Vedic wisdom.
Dialogue 13
Back to contents
Hello Vrinder - March 15, 2002
i woke up this morning and for the last few days frustrated with religion.
Vj ~ What more can I tell when your own (false) religion cannot prevent you from becoming frustrated?I glanced across my room and thoughts of my debate with you came into my head.
Vj ~ Probably if you had relieved your head of the turban, it could have entered earlier.My eyes slowly passed my nitnaam and a smile came to my face. I uttered waheguru ji. To be a rude and narrow minded as you is my ultimate fear but you made me feel good.
Vj ~ It is the way of fools to be frustrated one moment and feel good the next. It shows how useless your religion is when it only takes the "narrow-minded" to frustrate you. It shows that Waheguru is not with you all the time, only when you utter.I dont need to post on ur site, if u wanna thats fine but maybe i dont need to show the world how ignorant i am as u have already shown this with ur site
Vj ~ So how being ignorant makes you feel good?God works in many ways to show me how not to be like u is ur sites
use
Vj ~ If he can't cure your frustration due to ignorance, I doubt whether he has any other way to show you. It shows clearly that he is a fake since being like me would bring you no frustration.
Dialogue 14
Back to contents
Jujhar Virk - Jujhar.Virk@parexel.com - Tuesday, May 07, 2002
Clinical Data Manager
Data Management
JV:So Sikhism is a Flawed path of self-realization, according your self made interpretation?
Vj ~ No it is not self-made but it is in harmony with Divine justice, since it is an injustice to deprive early man of any new revelation (religion). Here are past dialogues on the sikh religion and if you care to discuss it further please do it here.
Wednesday, May 08, 2002
JV:You did not answer the other questions I posed, such as where the flaw lies. The reference you posed was not very helpful. So please reply.
Vj ~ Anything I pose would not be helpful to a static intellect. This is why you must read and analyze to ingrain the proper reasoning habits. You don't even know how God's justice works either since you found the example I gave least helpful.
It is absolutely useless to answer the others if you are having problem with the one I gave.
Email - Wednesday May 10, 2002
JV:It seems like as you are unable to answer my questions and also as you agree with my comments you are unable to argue with proper evidence.
Vj ~ What evidence do you need when logic and reason is good enough to expose hypocrites? What you need is not evidence but to ingrain the proper reasoning habits. You said your Guru taught you to respect other beliefs, and I have pointed out that if he had respect for any existing religion of his time he would not have founded another religion. Does this not make any sense to you?
JV:so you are resorting to foul languare about my guru.
Vj ~ If you find it offensive it is still for your own good.
JV:If guru nanak was hypocrite then he would not have started the revolution to remove unequaltiy in indian system which has started due to the orthodox beliefs of hinduism and arya samaj.
Vj ~ You are not only stupid but bias also, Arya Samaj is only a 120 years old while Nanak lived about 500 years ago. So if there were unequality Arya Samaj had nothing to do with it.
JV:It was guru nanak who gave the status of equalitity to women, it was guru nanak who has a low caste Bhai Mardana with him most of his life and treated him like his brother, it was guru nanak whose teaching opened the eyes of Kind babar of India, it was guru nanak who said ' Oh god you are everybodys father and mother' if he was hypocrite he would have proclaimed ownerhsip to god, like other prophets did.
Vj ~ He did proclaim ownership (gurudom), if not those who follow are guilty of going against his wishes. He no doubt did a lot of good, but virtue without knowledge is still avidya (ignorance).
JV:Guru nanak from birth proclaimed 'Nor he is a hindu nor a musalman' read gurbani oh fool, guru nanak refused to wear janeuo (holy thread ) of hindus, what more evidence you need, that he was not a hindu, nor a musalman.
Vj ~ Here you again, it is only a hypocrite who would refused to be a Hindu or a Muslim and still proclaim respect for the religion that made them what they are.
JV:Turban is the robe of honor which kings wear, low peole like you cannot understand the meaning of turban. I think you forge that in 1978 13 sikhs when seeing the insult of guru took to the sword, your comments which do not have any arguments to support them or evidence might result in the same. wear to protect honor of gurus sikhs might have to resort to sword. another thing your webstite will be removed from the server pretty soon
Vj ~ Whatever action is taken positive or negative by you are anyone else would not have any effect on my soul. It is fine also to reject the one true religion, how else would God provide insects and animals (sinful souls) for future creation.
Dialogue 15
Back to contents
Email: - 10 May 2002 12:46
JV:Guru Nanak did not found another religion, he showed the true path for salvation, so your first response is invalid
Vj ~ He did proclaim ownership (gurudom), if not those who follow are guilty of going against his wishes. It is obvious that if others before him did not know of the true path, it is new. He no doubt did a lot of good, but virtue without knowledge is still avidya (ignorance).
JV:Your comment in the above sentence does not make sense, it seems you have understanding and communication difficultiy. I thnk it is the third time i am going to write, that guru nanak has called himself a servant of almighty and he never converted anybody into sikhism, peole followed him because of his trutthness- he never procalimed ownership- then why would he have said- " There are millions of peple who commits sins, millions who kill others, millions who are thiefs, millions who tell lies, but at the end everything which is happening is accroding to gods will.
Vj ~ It is not what you say that determines what he is, but what his ignorant followers made him out to be. He is the leader of a cult, sikhism because he left a legacy of words contrary to the Vedas and compatible to ignorance. You see the cultic attracts followers since there it requires absolutely no effort to become ignorant. But to become wise, it requires a life time of study and practice. A fool has no time for this, so that is why they are attracted to false dogmas where salvation is assured to them.
JV:I think as you have no valid points and answers to my questions you are tryiing to give vague answers which dont make any sense.
Vj ~ Very true, I didn't say it would make sense to an idiot.
JV:It seems you have lost in the discussion of true religion, if your religion is true then good, one thing is better in sikhims though, sikhism does not tell us to insult other religions, at least that is better in my religion.
if you are that knowledgable then accept my challenge to have a discussion 1:1 and i will asure you will lose
kind regards
Vj ~ If you know nothing of the Vedic religion you are in no position to tell me that I have lost. You have to show me where the Vedic religion is in error only then you can begin to validate Sikhism. Good luck.
Dialogue 16
Back to contents
Email: Friday, May 10, 2002 11:00 AM
JV:CONTACT ME ON MY HOTMAIL ACCOUNT IF YOU HAVE ANSWERS TO MY EMIALS
Vj ~ You too can contact me here.
JV:Mr VJ
IF Guru Nanak was a hypocrite then he would not have gone to Mecca and showed them the true path, he would not have gone to Banaras and showed pandits the true light, that is why there are more than 50,000 white people who have become sikhs, because of his teachings.
Vj ~ Do you have a clue how many white people have become Muslims also? If Guru Nanak taught his followers to have respect and love for other religions, what is the point in going to Mecca to show Muslims "the true path"?
JV:It was guru nanak who went all around the world and spread gods, name, Fifth guru has written in gurbani, " That religin is the best religions- when you meditate on gods name" if guurs were hypoctite then they would not have included the gurubani of Sufi saint, Bhagat farid, hindu Kabir and others.
Vj ~ Didn't mankind meditate on God's name before your Gurus or only your Gurus knew how to meditate? If salvation was there for all before Sikhism, then one would wonder why the necessity for a new religion. It clearly shows that the Gurus were hypocrites and did it for their own selfish motives of Gurudom.
JV:Guru nanak looked at everybody as equal-That is why there are still people in Tibet, china, bagdad who worship him as reverend saint.
Vj ~ Even God hasn't made all men equal so how can the hypocrite Nanak see everyone as equal? You are a brainless twit and unless you abandon your false dogma you are doomed to many births to pain and misery, the fate of your gurus. We are only equal in the eyes of the law, but beyond that we must strive by effort to seek knowledge and thereby achieve harmony (equality) by it.
JV:It was guru nanak who said only that moment of your time is the best when you recite gods name.
Vj ~ A wise man who recites God's name after extensive effort of acquiring knowledge and an idiot who has no brains for knowledge cannot reap the same rewards. Even our educational institutions would not hand out a degree to anyone for merely reciting the Chancellor's name.
JV:I think you are forgetting that swami dayanda was defeated in 1940's by two well known gursikhs and he bowed before these sikhs and said guru nanak was great.
Vj ~ You are a brainless jackass. Swami Dayanand died in 1883 and if you meant 1840 he was not known in India until he started his mission in 1874.
JV:have you got proper intelligent coment than contact me otherwise you are person who belongs to the category of " Millions of blinded people" may god show you the true light
Vj ~ So were (blinded) all those before the Sikh religion and in remote regions who never heard of the Sikh religion. You are dumb jackass like your gurus otherwise you would have long refuted my faith (Arya Samaj), and don't tell me that out of respect you were not taught to do that, because it is only true critical thinking the true path can be ascertained. A religion that was not here from the very beginning cannot do the work of one (Vedic) that was. So grow up pal and show some impartiality and do some investigation into my faith.
Email: - Monday, May 13, 2002
JV:get bent mr vijay, i think you need to be taught a lesson,
Vj ~ When an idiot trys to teach a wiseman a lesson, it is the idiot who while suffering, continues to suffer more.
JV:by the way swami dayanad was defeated i may be wrong about the time, but there is proof that he was defeated,
Vj ~ You have no proof otherwise you would have already laid it out. There is no Sikh who can defeat me in a rational debate, how can it be done to Swami Dayanand.
JV: it seems you mother gave birth to stupid unintellingent, illetrate, egositic monster, who besides belonging to a low family is also a liar, a stupid person
by the way piss off
Vj ~If I am all of that, one would have to wonder how smart are you to allow one in such a state to piss you off? Where is the respect and love for my religion that Nanak taught you?
JV: and i am going to teach you a lesson
watch the space
Vj ~I will aways continue to pay close attention to "space" because there is where the emancipated souls roam and enjoy total bliss in God.
Dialogue 17
Back to contents
Email:jv - 14 May 2002 13:33
JV:to your comment there is no sikh who can defeat you i did that is why you could not answer to comments,
Vj ~ It is not my answers that are in question here but your intelligence to comprehend them. I have said you have got no brains for a rational debate, otherwise you would have taken the initiative to discredit or critize the Vedic religion as propagated by Swami Dayanand. If you can't criticize the Vedic faith, how then can your religion be the "true path"?
JV:you could not come to terms that your dayanand was defeated in a discourse, you are unaware that dayannads follower, had written life story of guru gobind singh ji and declared him the true guru, if oyu want a copy i will post it to you, he declared in this book dayanads beliefs to be false and filled with ignorance, that man was to succedd dayanad but he abondoned him how is that
Vj ~ That is fine with me, an idiot can say what he wants to say because it doesn't really have to make sense to the idiot. I am a follower of Dayanand also and you are a follower of Guru Gobin so why the hesitation to engage in this debate of true religion. Since you know how Dayanand was defeated it shouldn't be difficult to defeat me.
JV:YOU PRAT
Vj ~Thanks brat!
JV:who revelaed vedic knowledge in the begining, dayanad is that a laugh yo son of bitch
Vj ~ It is not who revealed it is the question, but to whom it was revealed and it was certainly not Swami Dayanand 125 years ago and neither was it that lame-brain ignoramus Nanak 500 years ago. Had Nanak had any brains he would have reminded his followers of the Vedas, source of all ethics, and morals and all sciences, as Swami Dayanand did.
JV:It seems you are unable to take up the challenge, as for having brains i may assure you i have besides having masters in computing from oxford univeristy i have number of other qualitifications,
Vj ~ So are many Muslims too, but yet they see Nanak and the Sikhs as infidels. Wisdom is self-attained and cannot be a reflected by a piece of paper (a degree, certificate or diploma). God is All-wise and so man must also acquire true knowledge which when practice results in wisdom to know or come close to God. Like the qualifications you have, you had to earn it, it was not given to you out of compassion and mercy or by uttering your tutor's name. The same with salvation, it is not given by uttering God's name but deligent and strenuous effort through austerity after study and practice.
JV:it may be you may be uneducated and illiterate as you seem, to achieve salvation you have to meditate on gods name, see everbody as equal, do good deeds, not go out and diss other peoples religions without any evidence,
Vj ~ If you weren't an idiot you would have investigated my site (religion) before making such remarks. Idiots can't reason so you would have to first abandon your false faith to ingrain the proper reasoning habits and only then the evidences would shine.
JV:your vedic religion, is a false dogma, which is full of preaching hatred against others, where brahamans are considered as high caste, you are sick person belonging to sick faith, and sick guru, who even though was defeatged and bowed before the sikhs, was so ashamed that he never showed his face again, and even his followers wrote books in praises of gurus, he was so sick that he was thrown away out of punjab buy the people of punjab, and he was killed later on.
Vj ~ It is a fool who sees hatred in truth, but it is not wrong to hurt one's feelings especially when it is for one's own good. As I said before, even for idiots God has a purpose where else would He find sinful souls deserving of lives as rodents, insects, animals and vegetation. Read about how the we the Aryas view the caste system before indulging in idiotic comments.
Remember being a master in technology computing doesn't make you a master mechanic unless you extend your studies in that field also. The same applies to the acquisition of wisdom by the correct knowledge.
Dialogue 18
Back to contents
Email: - Tuesday, May 14, 2002
JV:If your religion is such true, then does your religion teach you to show hatred against others, it seems taht it does, where as my religion does not , so 1-0
Vj ~ A religion that prides it self on being true can only maintain such a status by proving the others false. It wouldn't matter though what my religion taught, as Islam teaches hatred too, you as a follower of that idiot Nanak, should do exactly what he taught you to do "respect and love" all religions, even Islam.
JV:if your guru was defeated by two sikhs then that means all his followers have been defeated, well anywhy i can do it again, as you have been unable to prove anything to me you have been defeated as vedas preaches inequality how can such bull shit be true,
Vj ~ There are inequalities even if the Vedas preached it, why are some sikhs dirt uglier and destitute than some? The equality the Sikh religion claims as far as I can see is all sikhs are perhaps equally ignorant.
JV:if vedas was true your millions of hindus would have started following them,
Vj ~ The same could be said for the Guru Grantha, why are not all Hindus and Muslims in India following it? The Vedas are only for those with good reasoning abilities which is not the function of a static intellect.
JV:it seems you cannot accept one thing that as your guru was defeated so have you been, loser ha ha.
well your vedas will not give you salvatoin as you dont have the qualities, you cannot speak politely with sweet toungue for starters, yoiu have no respect for other peole or their religion
it seems as you are frustated by the fact that dayanand idiot mother fucker was defeated so you are trying to show oyur anger
Vj ~ Anger is the trait of ignorant men like sikhs, why else would they walk around with a sword. Defeat me and I will accept that Dayanand was defeated.
JV:go and cry to your mother
As i said before only one thing is going to break the cycle of birth and death, meditating gods name,
Vj ~ So the cycle of birth and death was only broken when that idiot Nanak found sikhism 500 years ago?
JV:you have to accept that and if you dont, then you are just another parasite on this planet, like guru nanak dev ji has said there are millions of thiefs and millions of ignorant people, millions of of brave people, but only those merge with you who meditate and follow your orders.
it seems you have lost in this game
Vj ~ It seems that it is not only I who have lost the game but even that idiot Nanak's "parasite" parents, grandparents and all their ancestors before the sikh religion. As a matter of fact, everyone else who are not sikhs are parasites and yet you were taught to "respect and love" us parasites.
Email: - Tuesday May 14th, 2002
JV:it seems you dont have any proper answers to my queries, what i can say about you and dayanand that like he was defeated and thrown out of punjab yu have been as well, that is why you are moaning like little child without his to,
Vj ~ Strange enough I have never been to India muchless be thrown out of the Punjab. It is not the answers that are not proper, it is your static intellect that is not working. Had the idiot Nanak had any brains you could have been better off.
JV:becaus eyou cannot understand one thing that guru nanak preached love of god, he never called himself a prophet, guru nanak told us to medidate on gods name, not on his,
Vj ~ It is good to meditate on God's name, but I am trying to tell you that it would do no good to you if the god idiot Nanak gave you is a false one. Any revelation after the first (Vedas) will be false and therefore cannot be the same God as that of the Vedas.
JV:which is unlike your dayanda who raped his own cousin ( do you know about that),
Vj ~ No, I don't know about that, but if Dayanand became such a great Rishi by it, it would seem that your idiot Nanak did worst, since his mischief led to the invention of another false dogma (Sikhism) with a far larger following than Dayanand, leaving his followers helplessly brainless.
JV:you call guru nanak idiot one more time and i am going to hunt you down and remove your existense from this planet , go f--- your mother and father and sister
Vj ~ Did you say the idiot Nanak taught you to meditate on God's name? Strange while doing that how one can still bare so much hate to commit murder. I told you the idiot's God was false. Since I have not called him an idiot one time but more than once, there is no reason now to hunt me down, right?
Dialogue 19
Back to contents
Email: - Wednesday, May 15, 2002
JV:who is your god,
Vj ~ Everyone's God is the true God of the Vedas and all those who revile the Vedas are propagating false gods.
JV:if guru nanaks god is false guru nanak's god is only one god, which was before the creation of mankind, is still present, and will continue to be present
Vj ~ The point is not when God existed but when did He send instructions to guide us. A just God would do so in the very beginning and not 4000 (Hinduism), 2600 (Judaism), 2000 (Christianity), 1400 (Islam) or 500 (Sikhism) years ago.
JV:'guru ji has rightly written' meditating gods name is higher than reading all the vedas of the world, it seems you have lost in that game too.
Vj ~ You claimed to have degrees, did you acquire them by meditating on the University or Chancellor's name or did you read (study) the books required? Similarly, one would have to read inorder to know and understand the Nature, attributes and characteristics of God before meditating on His name. And whatever books you choose to do it with, must be in harmony with those of very early civilization since there are no two, three, four or five ways but one true path for all to obtain salvation.
JV:To protect what is right and what is wrong, if a person has to resort to sword, then he. she should not ashamed,
Vj ~ If what is right (righteousness) weren't degraded by false dogmas (unrighteousness) tthere would have been no need for swords. But since your faith relies on swords for protection, then it is obvious Sikhs have placed them before God. In otherwords, if they truly had confidence in their god, they would not have had to resort to voilence or anger (sword).
JV:it seems as you have not been able to give me any proper answers to my queries, your dogma, your guru is false.
Vj ~ As I have said many times before it is not my answers alone that can enlighten you, but your willingness to be impartial and apply good reasoning in your inquires.
JV:When a guru is defeated that means his preachings and his students are defeated.
Vj ~ A Guru or prophet is defeated from the moment a new religion is born of him. But a Guru who takes us back to the one truth that existed for all from the very beginning of creation is a true Guru and his students, true students.
JV:When Dayanand was defeated he bowed and touched the feet of gursikhs who defeated him
Vj ~ It seems not only Nanak had a bad dream, but the "gursikhs" who supposedly defeated Dayanand. If Nanak, the founder of the Sikh religion is a liar, it would make good sense that all sikhs are deceitful also. How can anyone of a faith that was born 500 years ago defeat a master who disseminated a knowledge that was present from the very beginning of creation?
JV:WHo revelead vedas, did god himself came to earth to reveal the true knowledge?
Vj ~ If you were taught that God had to come "to earth", then you must know where He came from. God is Omnipresent and Omnisicient, He is here, there and everywhere and He is All-pervading (knower of all). It simply means He is neither coming nor going anywhere. - revelation
JV:As vedas are preaching, hatred, discrimination, falseness, they are false and their ideology is false.
Vj ~ You don't know whether God comes or goes, how would you know what is true or false? In ignorance true knowledge is always deemed "hatred". In reality it is the truth that hurts, and who else can be hurt by truth but a fool.
JV:You cannot accept the fact that god revealed to guru nanak and showed him the true path- to medidate on gods name, which is the correct way
Vj ~ If God did revealed to Nanak, then it meant that what He revealed in the very beginning lacked the test of time and what was last revealed to Nanak would also meet the same fate with the passage of time. Do you know why God waited so long after creation, depriving so many, to show Nanak "the correct way"? The Bahai's also lay claim to Bah'u'lah as the last messenger whom God spoke to, so why don't you abandon your religion for one more recent as your forefathers abandoned Hinduism for the idiot Nanak's religion?
JV:Swami dayanad was illiterate person, nvere went to school for one day, he failed everything in his life, taht is why he was killed, answer this.
Vj ~ An illiterate would be the idiot (Nanak) who invented a new religion, caring less for those innocent souls before him and those in regions who never heard of the Sikh religion.. Swami Dayananand was hated by the ignorant because they were hurt by the truth. Nanak survived because he was the greatest fool among many fools whom he had no problem fooling. It is the law of nature that things finite decay and righteousness is no exception to the law. So in this last age, whatever flourishes in huge numbers would have to be the opposite (unrighteousness).
JV:If vedas are correct then why are you preaching hatred against other beliefs.
Vj ~ The question should be if the Vedas are correct why did the idiot Nanak started a new religion? Even if the Vedas were deemed false because of idol-worship (Hinduism) the sensible thing to do was to rejuvenate its glory by thorough and impartial investigations and denounced what was false as Swami Dayanand did. Nations today are fragmented due to the divisions brought on by different religions and only the one true religion (of the Vedas), which held the world together in harmony from creation, up to 5000 years ago, can return harmony to these nations.
JV:if vedas are true then good luck to atleast my religion is better that it does not preach hatred against others
Vj ~ You would not accuse a surgeon who has to perform surgery of vicious or malicious intent to maim because the operation is necessary to save the patient's life. Similarly, the message of the wise is not to wrongfully hurt you, but it is necessary to save you from the surgeon's knife (prevention). It is your gurus and their religion that are prejudicial since only Sikhs were shown the "correct way".
JV:guru nanak was the perfect guru, with the perfect message, and showed the manknid the true path
Vj ~ The "true path" must exist from the beginning of creation and not 500 years ago. Besides when one has found the true path there is no need to walk around with a sword.
JV:I dont just have masters in computing, i have a degree in theology,
Vj ~Both are useless if you cannot contradict the Vedic faith or show me where it is false.
There are Hindus, Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc. who can boast of the same, but yet the 'true path' (Sikhism) evades them. Not only that based on their degrees, as you have claimed, they also have the right to tell you that your faith is wrong. It is the study and practice of the correct knowledge that will eventually lead one to truth and not otherwise.
Dialogue 20
Back to contents
Email: - Thursday, May 16, 2002
JV:if god cannot come in 1500 to reveal to guru nanak, how can that god reveal itself to dayanand,
Vj ~ Why don't you think before writing you twit, the Vedas were revealed in the beginning of creation and Swami Dayanand only came 125 years ago. He never claimed to receive a revelation as your idiot Nanak did, but revived what was lost for centuries due to your kind of stupidity.
JV:god revelead to guru nanak because god had sent prophets who started preaching their name,made people to recite their, name, it was guru nanak who raised the voice against it
Vj ~ Muhammad made the same claim also and that Islam is 'true religion', so who is lying?
JV:it was guru nanak whose intelligence let him to reform indian social system, spread equality, where as vedas preach brahamans are high caste, guru nanak rejected this, it was his spiritual knowledge which showed him and others true path,
Vj ~ If the true path is not the Vedas he is a dumb twit, since truth must exist from the beginning for all and not for those and after Nanak's time. It simply means that what God has revealed in the beginning is good for all ages and if false practices arise out of it, it is not God's fault, but hypocrites as Nanak, Muhamad, Christ, etc.
JV:if you dont remember famous pandit of vedas challenged 7th guru, guru defeated him instantly, after the challenge he became guru's sikh.
Vj ~ Well it shows that he was only famous when he was a Pandit of the Vedas, but as soon as he became a sikh he lost the fame. But of course, to fools any idiot even Nanak can be called famous.
JV:"The Vedas know not God's greatness. Brahmas can realize not His secrets. The incarnations know not His limit. Infinite is God, the Transcendent Lord. His state, He Himself knows. Others speak of Him from mere hearsay. Shiva knows not the Lord's way. The gods have grown weary searching for Him. The goddesses know not His mystery. Over all is the Unseen Supreme Lord." (Guru Arjan Dev, Ramkali, pg. 894)
Vj ~ SAMVEDA RIGVEDA YAJURVEDA ATHARVA, BRAHME MUKHA MAA EYAAHAI TRAIGUNA TAAKEE KEEMAT KEET KAHA NA SAKAI, KOU TIU BOLE JIDA BOLAAEDAA
"SamVeda, Rigveda, Yajurveda and Atharva Veda have been revealed by god. No one can evaluate their importance. They are inestimable and eternal." Guru Nanak, Mahalaa 1 Shabda 17
OMKAAR UTPAATEE CHAAR VEDA CHAAR KHAANEE
"Four Vedas are four treasures given by God." Guru Nanak, Mahalaa 2, Shabda17.
DEEWAA BALE ANDHERAA JAAEE, VEDA PATHA MATI PAAPAA LAAEE.
"As there can be no dark under the candle, so the study of the Vedas destroys all sinful thoughts of the intellect." Guru Grantha Saheb
Your Gurus are contradiciting each other on the Vedas. It shows that they were all hypocrites. It is not the trait of an intelligent person to praise and censure a book (Veda) at the same time.
|
|
"Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth Translation
|
|