GS:If you cannot understand the questions, allow me to clarify any grey areas.

GS:However, if you do not have the sensibility to answer them, the ability to provide an philosophical reasoning to aid as a solution to them, then just say so. Would make this whole interaction a great deal easier.

GS:Thanks for you time. Next time, swallow the ego, and just say you cannot answer the questions you are posed with. Would save both your time and mine. SatNaam Kartar

GS:If you enjoy the moment, what are you seeking in the future, by continuing this pointless discussion? Is that not a contradiction in itself? Seeking an enjoyment in the future, when you dwell within it in the present? Are you really that stupid and intellectually raped by the doctrine you prescribe to, that you can make such stupid statements? Really, are you that idiotic?

GS:Actually, everytime you look at your mother in the face you see a pig, that complains and at the same time thirst for more, is that not the case? And with regard to thirsting for more, I am not the one that continues to come back, but you do, thirsting for more of a dissection of you inbred thoughts. And yes, thoughts of an intellect that itself has yet to be promoted to the status of a "static" one. Big words for a small, very small minor. If you can't answer my questions, like i said before, DON'T REPLY. ARE YOU THAT STUPID? WHY don't you seem to understand this? Are you that defeated that you continue to reply when you have no answers? I pity you, I really do. Pathetic.

GS:The only Idiot that keeps replying is the one that has been told NOT TO if he does not have answers to my questions. You need help. Either you are mentally disturbed, or really THAT pathetic and stupid.

GS:The only scoundrel here, is the "inbred" that does not know when to quit. Oh, I forgot, he is enjoying the present that he seeks in the future. HAHAHAHAHA. Loser.

From: GurDev Singh - dhangurupanth@hotmail.com - Thursday, May 09, 2002
GS:As you seem to project an image of yourself that lacks even the "static intellect" you speak of, i will speak in your language of egocentricity, so that you may be give the opportunity to digest what I have been saying in laymans terms into something more simpler. I don't expect you to understand everything I say, as the "reasoning ability" you speak of, you have blantently demonstrated you lack. Lets begin with a dissection of your arrogance and closer probing of your Ego, shall we?

GS:The Follower of Truth: You say you "posed" a "response" to my FIRST question, to which i have still to see an real substance, but what of your so called "answers" that followed? Your past and present dialogues, lack "static intellect", and again do not answer the questions i posed. According to your use of "logic", if i want to learn to ride a bicycle, i should learn to make a sandwich. That is pretty idiotic, is it not? Similarly, i have asked you for answers to my posed questions, and yet you seem to think that by me looking through your useless writing I will find them some how. I have told you, two times now, that they do not answer my questions. Will my initially query get its response if I say it a third time? YOUR USELESS REFERENCE DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTIONS. There, do you understand my disappointment yet?

GS:The path of the Khalsa has been here since the beginning of time ( in the framework of Hukam). The Brahmgiani, the Devotee of God is beyond ANY religion, (religions being something that functions as a stepping stone to a more intimate relationship with the True Self.as the Light within Nanak was). I do not expect your narrow intellect to digest this Truth. Now regarding the dumbest idiot. hmmmmmmm you seem to be bound to an intellect that lacks reasoning AND critical abilities, who is really the dumbest idiot you seem to be replying to? Have you been replying to your own postings? That makes sense. Yes.......sure it does.

GS:The Follower of Truth: This above site, is useless, much like your empty rebuttals, that never did answer the initial questions i posed. Maybe you should swallow your pride, and admit that you are a "living and breathing" idiot.

GS:The Follower of Truth: Grey areas lie in your inability to answer a question posed to you, that was stated in a very straight forward and simple manner. I am not looking for more answers, just answers to my questions that WERE NOT answered in those "dialogues" (aka, empty babbling void of any critical and analytical substance or logic) Why don't you re-read your "dialogues" and use this reasoning you speak of , and put it to some use. Then again, you seem to lake this ability, so how unjust must this God you speak of be! Void of "reasoning intellect" he proclaims to say the truth!

GS:The Follower of Truth: SatGur Nanak Ji Maharaj, did not start off any "philosophical meaning," Are you really THAT dumb and stupid. No really, were you dropped on your head at birth? You really do seem to dig yourself deeper and deeper into a metaphorical pit of ignorance that you seem to project as arrogance. The Jot within Nanak was THE Truth that existed before the beginning of Time (in the Framework of Hukam). Your so called "Truth" STARTED from the beginning of creation, and you should know that anything that is created will perish, the Truth ALONE Stand BEYOND your notion of Time

GS:The Follower of Truth: Time is something that only the wise and the fool measure existence by (with the fools understanding being one that you most easily can relate to) The Lone Devotee does not see time as she/he passes their lives in death. Not a death where they are seen as the embodiment of ignorance or untruths, but a death of the mind you prostrate yourself to.

GS:All the best to you in your empty quest. "You reap what you sow." An empty quest leads to an empty outcome. How empty you must be.

guru nanak may or may not have know. but he did not choose to disclose it.

It seems you know as much as God. waheguru is beyond comprehension, with all the knowledge God has it could fill up an infinite number of human brains.

if u think that god can fit all his knowledge in one human mind constrained by life and mortality, then ur ved-ass god is a complete joke. seriously if hes only got 1 persons worth of brain then he really must be a bit of an ass.

its incredibly retarded to think that all of gods information can be put into a human mind.

if guru nanak was so "fake" he could have made up a funny story,

since sikhism has the same karma laws as bindooism why didnt nanak say it was the same??

WHY? NO ONE WILL KNOW. guru nanak may well have known and chose not to disclose it (did he just blab all of guru jis secrets to us) or perhaps only god knows.....just as he said "only the creator knows"

dont forget guru gobind singhs line "I bow to You, who knows the ultimate Secret"

im sorry vigay but u cant fault the gurus. they are flawless in every way.

for *@%@* sakes the buddhists wanted him, the muslims said he was theirs, the bindus said that he was theirs as well. noone fought over the vedass, they just used it as a foot rest hahahaha

noone fought over the vedass, they just used it as a foot rest hahahaha

people diss mohammed cuz he did a 9 year old, etc

The Song of the Vedasses
hanuman hanuman hanuman hanuman hanuman ram hanuman hanuman hanuman hanuman hanuman hanuman ganesha

Guru Nanak didn't disclose about how the world started because out of all the knowledge in the world, the knowledge of God is the most important.

ROUND 1 Ved-arse followers VS Khalsa (in a battle who'd win) oh yeah those patriotic brown shits(ved-arse owners) are too pussy to fight and put up an excuse that they believe in Ashima.

Reply - 01/9/03 09:18:21 AM
vedas followers are short, weak and pussy.

or maybe u couldnt answer any of them........so much for the true religion haha

Vijai - Dead? Or scared?

Reply to KS Kharkoo - 02/18/03
dam....if under vedassism then there is no cure for a fool...that is indeed a poor religion....

....if everyone with "wrong" views is a fool....then what was the point in making this website??

Reply - 02/20/03 lol ur "religion" is worse than islam......u havent answered any of the questions on any other threads, u have deleted half my posts....etc etc.....

u arent sounding too confident that your religion is perfect hahahaha

if there was no mediator between man and god to begin with, how did the message get to the population?

a book just dropped down from the heavens?

clearly the rig veda was written by a few brahmins who had been going to hard at the booze

. just like every hindu book after that was written by hindus. u cant claim the 1st one was divine cuz they all BS! its just the last ones develop the BS further hahahahaha

1. The soul that study and put it to practice will be definitely be rewarded with a far higher birth.
   or
2. The fool who continues to revile it will be further buried in pain and misery.

You people are fooling yourselves no-one else.

Horse sacrifices, sun worship, the 3 God trinity and the other stuff in the vedas just make me laugh!!!!!!!

a way of keeping control of the masses under religious grounds. similar to old fashioned autocracy. aaaaaaaah arya samajis soooooo old fashioned.

Reply - 02/24/03
Creation of the universe LOL lets have a look at possible references to creation in sikhism: page 3 guru granth sahib, japji sahib:
"You created the vast expanse of the Universe from One Word (interpreted also as mass, or even piece)! Hundreds of thousands of rivers began to flow."
...sounds like a more poetic and fancy way to saying that all life started from water...

It says that after creation of the universe:
"The Lord created air (gases/dust) which combined to form liquids. The liquids brought forth the creation with the Lord Himself as the spark of life in it."

"The time, the day, season or the month when God created the Universe are not known to the yogis. Only the Creator knows this."

"Many countless are the galaxies and earths in them. Many countless are the moons, suns, stars and other heavenly bodies."
and also:
"Many countless galaxies and places are the sources of life. Many countless are the skies and the solar systems."
"The Universe has come into existence many times. Every time it is destroyed, only the One Almighty God remains."

"The scriptures (Vedas) say that there are 18,000 planes of existence, but in reality, there is only One Universe."
the exact way in which the big bang happened, and when, and how, will only ever be known to god. some things just aren’t meant to be known to humans. why should humans have the knowledge of god lol?
one funny bit about vedassism i read:
...the intersting thing about u vigay, is that u cant stick up for ur own religion (just a rather poorly written few pages which u always tell ppl 2 go to) so ur tryna diss other ones even though u havent studied them!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well history has it that he was challenged to a discussion by a great sikh scholar ...Gyani Ditt Singh Ji.........

and the fact and truth is that Swami was defated comprehensively in full view of a congregation.

like women are impurer during child birth and mentruation.....etc. etc. ..

...hey one more thng i dint take time to read ur filthy site but do you belive in "Manusmriti" i.....

i.....it is a wonderful piece of book lol ....haahahahaha......as as ur myths full os incest and sex.

Thanks for getting back to me.
Vj ~ You are most welcome, my friend.

I am learning the Vedas at the moment, studying the Aryan civilization and the Gods mentioned within the Vedas such as Indra, Agni and the entity Rita etc.
Vj ~ God is one, but known by many names suitable to His nature, attributes and characteristics. For instance He is known as Brahma, the creator; Shiva, the dissolver; and Vishnu, the sustainer, etc.

I want to make it clear I am a devout Sikh and have no plans on changing. I simply wish to learn from you the fascinating ancient world to pass on to my Hindu friends.
Vj ~ Whatever you choose to do, is your own affair, but if you choose to learn from me, I can only teach you the truth by exposing what is false, including your religion (Sikhism).

I really do like talking to you about religion as I did nearly 5 years ago….i will have many questions to ask you which is why I wanted to talk on msn as I like the flow of a conversation.
Vj ~ Well let the questions flow for now and have an open mind.

Reply to Vrinder - Monday, April 2, 2007
The Vedas are simply the oldest scriptures known to man. Civilization, scriptures, ways to God could have existed thousands of years before then, completely unknown to us and the modern world. How does that make yours true if you are only basing it on the first religion known to MAN.
Vj ~ Since you don't know and I do, whom do you think people should listen to? If it is the simply the oldest, doesn't that mean it is before anyone else you know of? You can believe in what you want to, but until you find a scripture that is older than the oldest (Vedas) only then it will make sense to doubt me.

Have you ever considered that you cannot understand the meaning of life? Which is why you cannot understand, accept or even know what is true and what is not? Truth and understanding isn’t found in studying scriptures, firstly the learner must be able to understand himself and the environment around him.
Vj ~ Not because you don't understand the meaning of life, no one else does. I do not have to prove anything to anyone, for the proof I have, is for my own benefit. You too, can take the same path I did and find that proof also, and when you have arrived at it, you will find yourself in the same situation as I am - the difficulty of proving it to people like yourself who have been led astray generation after generation.

One true religion……if only religion even existed! The one true culture?....if only
Vj ~ It does, but you will have to make the effort to first be impartial and then the effort to study (Light of Truth) and ingrain good reasoning habits, as I did. It will be simpler for you since I have done it to show the way.

Truth is truth no matter whichever mouth its spoken from. Living in duality and fearing death, cultures, religion and civilization will die and more shall be born. Grasping onto a set of scriptures or a way
Vj ~ So whose truth is the truth, yours or mine? If it is the same then how come we oppose each other. Look for a rational universal definition of truth and only then we can define whether truth from your mouth or my mine is really the truth.

Of life can hardly be called true. It simply seems like your saying your right and the rest are wrong.
Vj ~ I am right until some one else can prove me wrong and so far no one has been capable of doing so.

You say that Sikhs are sword wearing cowards but what did the Vedas do for India?
Vj ~ The Vedas are the source of ethics, morals and all sciences known to man. The whole world stands to benefit from it and not only India. The Vedas will always be shining in its own glory to the end, but if people like Nanak (Sikhism), Mahaveer (Jains), Gautama Buddha (Buddhism), Swami Parmahansa (Hinduism) keep reviling and rejecting it, then how can it be the fault of the Vedas. The only good thing about the Sikh religion, is that it prevented many from converting to Islam instead, meaning that it is easier for a Sikh to come back to the Vedas rather than a muslim.

What did YOU or your ancestors do to defend it? You’re so proud of your ancestors’, your country in its former glory it is Sikhs who spilt their blood for her.
Vj ~ My ancestors and your ancestors originally were aryans, when they fell, we were left with hindu ancestors and frankly speaking from then on, your ancestors and my ancestors failed to prevent foreign aggression. It is true, that Sikhs (Guru Gobin Singh, etc.) rose against Muslim tryanny, but so did Maharana Pratap and Shivaji. Most important of all, Swami Dayanand rose against the greatest evils of all evil - false dogmas that brought Indians their downfall. He was the one who rekindle faith in all Indians (Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Christians, Parisees, Jews, Buddhists, Jains, Charvakas, etc) reminding them of what a glorious Aryan empire India was once.

I don’t expect you to understand this because you fail to think outside of the box…..if the Vedas were not being read and recited during this you simply consider them false.
Vj ~ You are the one in a box relishing a dogma as a way to God or salvation not knowing whether it is true or false without the thorough and impartial studies of the others. The Vedas are in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws, so any scripture that opposes the Vedas is false.

As the colour of safflower is impermanent and is washed away in water, likewise the colours of religiosity are also temporary. The whole of the world is following the ways of Satan.
Vj ~ It would depend on who is doing the argument, for not only the color of safflower is impermanent but also the Quran, Puranas, Bible and Guru Grantha Sahib and all will be washed away for they are all scriptures founded by man and were not here from the beginning of creation. Only the Vedas are eternal and are for all creations, past, present and future ones to come. The fall of man from rigtheousness is imminent since all things finite must decay, a law.

Also vijai..God is the support of the Vedas, not the other way around. The Vedas teach us to remember and reflect on God nothing more nothing less. Without true worship of God and love the Vedas alone are useless. One who loves God and renounces duality and is indifferent to life has fulfilled the wishes of your Vedas.
Vj ~ If your scripture is only 600 years old, how can you speak of love for the eternal God or the eternal Vedas? Does it not make sense that only the scripture that was here from the very beginning of creation can speak of everything of God and His creation. Certainly, you don't think it is God's handiwork to deprive early or any part of civilization of the knowledge of Guru Grantha, Quran, Bible, etc.

The true religion is the worship of God, you should turn your energy to the atheist and yourself.
Vj ~ An atheist is ahead of you and all the others who worship false gods and I am ahead of the atheist (rational mind or functional intellect). So, if there is any turn of energy now, it is your call. True religion is about acquiring the correct knowledge, putting into practice so that only the one true God of the Vedas should be worshipped.

This is my point, how can your God of 6000 years decide to wake up then?
Vj ~ Excellent question, but if you think it is contrary to wake up 6000 years ago (Hinduism), it has to be far more worst to "wake up" at 600 years ago (Sikhism).

There are many things man has not understood and until then how can you base ‘one true’ religion argument on time.
Vj ~ Vj ~ True, there are many things yet to be understood, but it does not mean this world is without one who don't truly understand.

Your Vedas deprived the human race or anything else before that.
Vj ~ None were deprived of the Vedas, it was revealed to the first inhabitants of this creation for God is just.

You are right, who knows what existed before the Vedas but IF a religion did exist you entire logic and reasoning would be ill founded and smashed. Not a very good foundation to base your belief on.
Vj ~ Again, my "entire logic and reasoning" are and will remain the best foundation until there is one who can produce a scripture before the Vedas to smash it.

Kindness is true, pain is true, happiness is true, not your understanding of the Vedas which is heavily subjective. Love is true these qualities are not taught to us they are our instinct. Once one loves God who is invisible, everywhere, within us, timeless and who lives according to its will and hukam is true. My truth and your truth are indeed very different but they are true if they please God.
Vj ~ Nothing is true until the true knowledge is applied to it. To be kind to a dog and kill a cow is not love, to inflict pain or cause pain (meat, alcohol, drugs, smokes, etc.) upon yourself is not love, to be happy one moment and unhappy the next is not love, but to understand the wisdom of the Vedas is love above all love. In my work you feel I am out to offend people, but in reality I am trying to save their soul and that is love. You will have to travel the path I have taken to see, feel and enjoy the true estacy of love.

There are four castes of Hindus and four sects of Muslims in the world. The members of both religions are selfish, jealous proud, bigoted and violent.
Vj ~ And don't forget, there are divisions among Sikhs and they can be very violent at times also.

The Hindus make pilgrimage to Hardvar and Banaras, the Muslim to the Kaba of Mecca. Circumcision is dear to the Muslims, sandal mark (tilak) and sacred thread to the Hindus.
Vj ~ Makes no difference, sikhs make pilgrimages to the Goldent temple and also carry five religious symbols. Whatever you say of the others, you must able to see the same fault in yours.

The Hindus invoke Ram, the Muslims, Rahim, but in reality there is only One God. Since they have forgotten the Vedas and the Katebas, worldly greed and devil have led them astray. Truth hidden from both; the brahmins and maulvis kill one another by their animosities. Neither sect shall find liberation from transmigration.
Vj ~ And the same can be said of the Sikhs also who have rejected and revile the Vedas in the same way as the Hindus and Muslims by prostrating to scriptures other than the Vedas.

If your guru had extracted the "true nectar" of the Vedas, he would have had no need to invent another religion or another scripture. Swami Dayanand preached the Vedas and it is still the religion of the Vedas as it was in the beginning and no new scriptures were born out of it. The Vedas were authored by God, it is eternal and it is for all times or ages and all creations. Guru Grantha and all the others which are recent and will all die with this creation, can you not get that?

Reply to Vrinder - Tuesday, April 3, 2007
My Guru Ji’s were sent by God himself to re-educate the false ones that could not understand the true essence of the holy scriptures.
Vj ~ God is Omniscient All-perfect and All-wise, He knows from the very beginning what is perfect for creation and whatever He revealed in the beginning is good for all creation and doesn't have to send anyone else, anywhere during creation. Your guruji is false, just like the others who only brought new religions to divide mankind and cause chaos and lawlessness.

In the age of Kalyug it is not the Vedas that will bring salvation but the worship of himself directly. Your Vedas did their Job well in the Satyug but nobody today can realize their simples message. Humans mis-understood the Vedas in the most important age and they misled myriads of what we now call Hindus and you are no exception to the lost….
Vj ~ I must be an exception, for I still propagate the Vedas which did "their job well in Satyug". What ever brought salvation to those in Satyug must be the same for those in Kaliyug. It is not God who changes the rule in the middle of the game but fallible beings like your guruji.

I am not debating the religion or the fascinating lifestyle of your ancestors, only the amrit contained within found only in the rare ones. I am not a bigot and would any day die and touch the feet of any Sufi, Qazi, Vedic, Jewish, Christian man who had understood the secrets of the Lord. Just because in this age men claim Islam, Jesus, Vedas their path is the only way to salvation means nothing!
Vj ~ If you really want to know the "fascinating lifestyle of your ancestors" you will have seek out the teachings of Swami Dayanand and not Guru Nanak, who had no idea what the Vedas stood for. A bigot is one who is boxed in his own religion because he was born in it caring less to do impartial and thorough investigation into what is presented on my site.

You say you have true love….you only have love for a system. True love comes with teaching you God has no religion, no dress code. No sect, no language, loyal to no people or country. God kills all and sustains all and with your little life remaining before you Id rather you depart with love then pride and ego.
Vj ~ Pride and ego are the nature of the ignorant. Love for all is the nature of the wise. Again, you can never be able conceive this love in your state of ignorance. And remember, if He "has no religion, no dress code. No sect, no language, loyal to no people or country", then it is obvious He didn't send your guruji, Christ, Muhammad, Krishna, etc. as they all started it by a religion, a dress code, a sect, a language belonging to a specific people and country.

I am attending a Raag class. We are being taught gurmat sangeet because our scriptures are composed in raags such as ASA, BILAAVAL, GAURi which have to be heard in that raag to tune to the correct Naad.
Vj ~ Sangeet is good for relaxation, it is the norm of the age. My thoughts are constantly engaged, alternating between truth and what is false, and never feel the need to listen much of sangeet. At times I do go to my harmonium to chant some Vedic mantras, or sing a few bhajans or even some ghazals.

I simply like putting a face to the person I talk to, but that is quite fine. Is it a security concern?
Vj ~ Truth does not have a face, but a soul and that is what we must be most concerned of. So show more interest for your soul rather than my face (smile).

It is interesting what comments you made when you saw the picture, regarding the people in the background…..quite a sad way of viewing mankind whatever race or religion they come from. Karma doesn’t adhere to religion or rituals but actions. God does not see religion or txt when you are judged in that realm beyond the 3 states.
Vj ~ Yes it is by our actions the law of karma judge us, and it is by the correct knowledge good actions are accumulated, so seek it, my son if you have the will and courage. I do sense something positive going on in your thoughts otherwise you would not have returned to these discussions. May your inspiration for impartial inquires continue to grow.

Sangeet is amazing, It can evoke emotions that one cannot attain by reading.
Vj ~ Emotions and sentiments are weaknessess (sin) which one must try to destroy. In weaknesses no one can attain mukti.

I have searched all the Shaastras, the Vedas and the Simritees, and they all affirm one thing: without the Guru, no one obtains liberation; see, and reflect upon this in your mind.
Vj ~ It is true one must seek a guru, but the "Shaastras, the Vedas and the Simritees" can never affirm one outside the realm of of Vedic wisdom to be a guru. Had Nanak been a vedic scholar he would have propagated the Vedic religion in its original form as Swami Dayanand did and not invented a new religion. Early Aryans didn't need a turban, sword, wristband, kirpan, etc. as religious symbols (new) to lead then to salvation.

That is true but that was ‘there’ way this is ours……
Vj ~ Truth is one and it is the same for all in all ages and does not change to meet new ways.

Why don’t you use that logic when you ancestors went to battle! In fact why don’t you ask all governments to lose their arms.
Vj ~ When one is protected by dharma, one does not have to go to battle. Those who went to battle or were being surpressed by wars fell from dharma. Practice of dharma is the only cure for all evils.

Swami Dayanand did what he thought was right, he chose a path according to his understanding and circumstances and that’s fine.
Vj ~ Swami Dayanand did what he knew was right, after studying and putting into practice the knowledge of the ancient rishis. It did not take ten gurus (rishis) to make it right for his wisdom guided by Vedas was enough to prove Vedas authentic.

Had he been born in the age of my Guru he would have adopted another faith who knows and frankly I do not care what he chose.
Vj ~ Had he born in any age, it would have been the same message to all mankind "back to the Vedas". Listen, it is ok with me if you don't care, for I understand that only a rare few with the right inclination will be able to save themselves.

Early Aryans were just that…..Aryans subject to the timeless lords will just as sikhs or any other religion are.
Vj ~ If you feel certain what you know is good enough, then my friend that is your decision to make not mine. I can take a horse to water but there is no way I can make him drink if he is not thirsty. Take care and thank you for the inquiry.