Dialogue 1
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Hello amused - Sunday 23-Aug-1998
Vj ~ This is one of the good qualities of true religion - it amuses the aspirant.
"First of all. Who says it has to meet these so-called truths? Who said they were truths? Why should we believe they are truths? Because the Vedas say so??? HAHAHAHAHA.
Vj ~ I could tell you "who says" but you will run him down as you did to me; but as a "self-righteous bastard" I will spare your soul the ordeal.
And after reading many of your posts you come across as the most self-righteous bastard I've ever heard of. You are so smug that you have the key to all the knowledge of the universe its quite laughable.
Vj ~ And come to think of it you haven't even read my site yet.
"A self-proclaimed Guru or swami rishi whatever the f---“
Vj ~ You completely forgot to fill in the blanks "f---" or is the soul conscious of shame, guilt or are you afraid of a God that will strike you with a lightening-bolt?
"you Indians call yourselves when you think you are holy enough."
Vj ~ Quite difficult to undo eh! We are also the root of all civilization kill it and you will die eventually.
Why don't you cut the attitude until you reincarnate as a Swami and live in poverty and celibacy for your whole life??
Vj ~ Why? And deny you the amusement.
Can I laugh now. I think I will.
Vj ~ Sure, the law (karma) works that way for ignorance - laugh now and cry later.
Dialogue 2
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Hello Amused - Tuesday 25-Aug-1998
Vj ~ Relax my boy at the end of all this you may even be surprised yourself of the wisdom this truth.
"Yes I would, that's exactly my point. All your true knowledge came from a person. Not God."
Vj ~ I certainly don't blame you for feeling that way since billions are brainwashed into believing that no one can gain salvation without a mediator between man and God. Anyway, man had to be taught, and if it did not first come from God, where do you suppose it came from?
Same with the Bible. Same with any other religion. Your ain't no different except maybe it's the thinking man's religion or something.
Vj ~ I will suggest that if you can find the time to free yourself of the frustrations of false religions and reason a little bit more of the Vedic religion as your guide, you will find it different but nothing new.
"And what ordeal are you sparing my soul from?? Mocking your Avatar? You sound like a Christian whenever I tell them Jesus ain't God."
Vj ~ On the contrary, the Vedic religion educate one to the purpose of creation guided by His laws and only when these laws are breached one is penalized. It is not fear but deterrence. We believe mankind must be prudent and inquisitive and free to investigate all sources to ascertain what is true and what is false, this leaves them free to reject or accept.
"I haven't read the Bible either. I read parts of your site anyway.. so what? All the knowledge of the Universe is not possible of understanding. That alone tells me Vedism is B.S."
Vj ~ The same was said of the frog who spoke of the only world he knew, his little well even when he was told of the vast oceans. It all depends on how much effort one is inclined to make. You can remain in your little well like the frog and ignore the vast knowledge that is before you now.
"I must have been distracted. Whatever the "f---" you want to call yourself!! How's that? Better?"
Vj ~ If I had needed that to feel better I would have been using it myself, but I am above that - it is only a word and the wise see no harm in it. Oops! There I go again.
"God strike me down with a lightning bolt? hahahahaha. God doesn't give a damn what I just said."
Vj ~ True God does not interfere in His creation - souls are independent and free to act accordingly to freewill but are subjected to His justice in the end. Remember, God cannot reward all souls at once with salvation, what good would creation be without animals, insects, etc.?
"I see. You think you are some kind of Swami already. Swami in-training perhaps?
Vj ~ I am sorry you have seen it as a threat to your intelligence but this knowledge is for all including you and when you have acquired it as I did it becomes yours.
"Sorry you can't be famous until you die. But I guess you won't be since you can't write anything new. It wouldn't be fair to all those people who came before right? Oh well I agree you are pretty funny.
Vj ~ There is and can be nothing new since God is Just. The fame that man seeks today are materialistic (vanity) and brings nothing good for the future of the soul but degradation.
"Pay for what? And what currency will I use? You sound like a God-damn Christian. Nothing but fearmongerers all of you. Sorry i don't buy crap like that. There is no f---ing payment."
Vj ~ Just simply ask those who are in pain and misery. Whether you believe it or not, they are paying for something. Why else would they be asking themselves "what the hell did I do to deserve this?"
You are in a better position than most who are brain-washed into a belief since you are open to reasoning. I hope you will grab this opportunity to strive for further knowledge. It will help if read the subject on ATHEISM. Good luck my friend.
Dialogue 3
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Hello Amused - Friday 28-Aug-1998
"well if I think its funny I benefit. Uncentered people can be hurt. My guess was that Vijai was pretty centered. I was right!
Vj ~ Now that you are right and I was right all along can we both teach others to be right also. Are there some people you really respect? Who, and why?
"People that don't preach or think they know everything or has the book that does. HA!"
Vj ~ Sounds more like a bunch of fools who want to be ignorant all the time. Well why don't you get out of your selfish self and find a book that will put you above all, and then you too can be an envy. I know you thirst for some sort of glory but you can't get it by complaining.
Hello Amused One - Wednesday 2-Sep-1998
”Does Vedism imply that as one progresses along the True Path one is reincarnated with ever increasing intellect in order to comprehend the knowledge of the universe?”
Vj ~ Yes it is. All scientists and others of very similar intelligence are reincarnations of the Vedic philosophy. If it weren't so then any one could have been a scientist. Wherever we leave off in spiritual science we continue with much ease in the next life. But, the pursuit must be a continuous one since there are many things distractive that can sway our direction. We go back to the question of those in pain and misery; as they must strive for this knowledge for the cure so must the intellectual or rich, to know what brought them this great gift and to continue to strive for higher rewards through this knowledge, the highest being emancipation. If not they will enjoy it in this life without happiness in the end and fall to lower births
"This is what I assume from your posting.. and stuff like quoting Einstein."
Vj ~ Einstein in the latter days of his life did come to realize that there was superior force of which only the mystic mind could have conceived. He also knew that the ancient sages were aware of the sciences that he came to know and was nothing new.
"My IQ has been taken at near genius level by the way.. though that statement does not reflect any kind of arrogance or pride on my part. It just is."
Vj ~ Many of us have potentials but if we don't put them to work with correct knowledge, how would we know what we are really capable of?Wednesday 2-Sep-1998
"I am glad you feel you are one the true path. I am also on the right path believe it or not."
Vj ~ Here is the Vedic concept of the paths to God.- Static intellect - The credulous or those of ready belief, the result of false dogmas. Believers are led in circles and they remain forever lost by it.
- Functional intellect - Atheism or those who reject religions. Impartial enquiries and thorough investigations becomes the path.
- Discriminating intellect - Reasoning guided by correct knowledge (knowing what is false from true) leads the enquirer to the right path.
- The realized intellect - When all abstruse science of God and His creation is known to the soul by Vedic studies or the practice of Yoga it is the true path.
By this analysis you are on the path and I have just begun my journey on the true path.
Dialogue 4
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Hello Still Amused - Saturday 29-Aug-1998
Vj ~ I am so happy for you - still amused.
"What?? Civilization did not start in India.
Vj ~ When the West first started the system of counting - they were stuck at "9" - it was the Indians who introduced to them "0" so that they can continue on. Sanskrit is oldest and most complete of all languages. Its grammar is used in all sciences today e.g. all space technology.
"The Sumerian Civilization was the first civilization. And Modern Man sprouted somehow in Africa."
Vj ~ So I guess you are proud of the fact, that the source of your intelligence sprouted from an ape-man the origin of the Sumerian race? I wonder why such a great race (Africans) were enslaved and made to feel so inferior now.
What? So you're racist or just extremely prejudiced against blacks huh?
Vj ~ Perhaps, but not as much to enslave them. Seems more like an insult to your intelligence! So are you proud of the source of your intelligence or would you like me to go back bit to that of a monkey? Still Amused - Saturday 29-Aug-1998
I would like to retract that statement of mine. Everyone benefits from all things. Hey I'm not preaching you asked!!
Vj ~ How come you haven't benefited from my discussions?
Wait did I hurt your feelings Vijai? I thought you were an oak..
Vj ~ The cure for greed, anger, lust, vanity and infatuation is true knowledge. It will be in your best interest to seek it.
"I'm selfish! What did I do?"
Vj ~ When you despise someone (your own words “self-righteous bastard”) it is selfishness and the cause is envy (ignorance).
"The only thing I thirst for is YOUR SOUL!!"
Vj ~ It is a pity that you thirst for something you haven't the slightest idea of what it is all about. How would you know what to do with it?
Dialogue 5
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Hello Amused - Saturday 29-Aug-1998
"I am a man thank you."
Vj ~ Many have the features of a man but still think and act like a little boy?
"Everything anyone ever needs to know is IN themselves"
Vj ~ So why do we need to go to school?
"HIS laws?"
Vj ~ Yes the immutable laws of Nature. You have any idea of what it is?
"There you go more bullshit.”
Vj ~ If you are not careful, you could be shitting it in your next life.
"God ain't a HE or SHE."
Vj ~ How about “IT”?
And what is the ultimate penalization? Hell right? Or do you turn into an insect?
Vj ~ I have to hand it to you, you were doing some studies on my subject on reincarnation of the SOULVery good Amused keep up the good work!
“I could say the same to you."
Vj ~ Saying it is simple but knowing it be true or untrue you must admit could be guessing game for you. Why take the risk when I am showing you the way?
"Your world is Vedism."
Vj ~ True, and it is all the world anyone would want to know.
"Nothing lies beyond it."
Vj ~ The same the frog says of his little well and you of your world.
"Mine has no boundaries."
Vj ~ How would you know? Try getting into Canada or USA without the proper papers.
"So the frog thinks who doesn't realize he's in a well."
Vj ~ Like you the frog doesn't realize.
"Well we agree on something. Partly."
Vj Vj- I knew there was some good in you. (smile) ~
Threat? More like insult."
Vj ~ - Truth is always an insult to fools. Didn't you find that out in your discussions with the Christians?
"Okay fine recognition from God is what you seek then right?"
Vj ~ A realized soul needs no recognition - it is free of desire and as such has no needs.
"You've been a really good boy converting those idiots to the One True Religion."
Vj ~ They are no longer idiots- it is just that an idiot cannot recognized the difference.
"All those other fools will just keep reincarnating until they finally hear about it and change their damned mind!
Vj ~ Bravo my friend! You have got the idea! The next step is to apply it to yourself. The choice makes the difference in whether you want to elevate or relegate your soul.
"But we'll just have to keep sending you back until everyone knows the TRUTH." Go something like that ya think?
Vj ~ It will always be my pleasure to enlighten mankind. It is lot to offer, more than what I can say for you. What have you got to offer the world?
"The choices you make determine the outcomes of your life."
Vj ~ What choices do children or the mentally infirmed have?
"Pain and misery are simply byproducts of the lessons we need to learn."
Vj ~ How do you teach a child or mentally retarded the lessons of these byproducts? It is a lesson all right, that pain and misery is punishment for unrighteous actions.
"I can never figure out why intelligent people like yourself buy into any one religion and believe that everything else is false.
Vj ~ I can tell when you are making progress I have been elevated to "intelligent people." If you really want to figure out then read my site. I did not arrive at this truth by propagating only the Vedic religion but I dwelt with all the main dogmas and point out their faults. Your thinking is reminiscent of mine in the past. I was an atheist for almost 15 years of my life and it is this period of critical thinking that led me the one true path.
"It just doesn't make logical or intuitive sense that it could be possible.."
Vj ~ I agree with you. This knowledge was denied and hidden from the human race for centuries and only a fool will immediately accept it as true. It takes time to ingrain proper reasoning habits and so it will take time to accept it as truth, but Mr. Amused as I said before you are far ahead if you are an Atheist
"Yeah good luck yourself. Roll the dice. Who's right? Guess we'll find out when we die.
Vj ~ I know the truth now and I will know more of this truth in my next life but you won't even find out when you die unless you can prove me wrong.
Dialogue 6
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Hello amused - Sunday 30-Aug-1998
Sorry Vij but since you had already made up stories such as that India was the cradle of humanity..."
Vj ~ Excavations at Harappa in the Punjab and at Mohen-jo-daro in Sindh province point also to the civilization in ancient India. Writes Sir John Marshal Director General of Archeology in India:- "The drainage system in particular is extraordinarily well developed. Every street and alley way and passage seems to have had its own covered conduits of finely chiselled brick laid with a precision which could hardly be improved on. Most of the buildings are divided into good-sized rooms furnished with their own wells and bathrooms floored over with brick and provided with covered drains connection with larger drains in the side streets. The existence of these roomy and well-built houses and relatively high degree of luxury...........seem to be taken a social condition of the people much in advance of what was then prevailing in Mesopotamia or Egypt. The gold ornaments are so well furnished and so highly polished that they might have come out of a Bond Street jewelers of today than from a pre-historic house of 5 000 years ago. What would John Marshall have gained by making up such a story? Seems more like an insult to your intelligence! So are you proud of the source of your intelligence or would you like me to go back bit to that of a monkey? WHOAAAAA! You are racist aren't you!!?? A closet rascist. &
Vj ~ Are you implying that I hate monkeys also?
"You have implied I am a fool and mocked my intelligence."
Vj ~ It is the best I could do with the little information you have provided me. But it doesn’t matter how much you are offended, it is for your own good.
"I have my own theories on the origins of our species. But they fit in with what we KNOW."
Vj ~ Well spill it out man! I will love to hear more of your side of the debate.
"Gee I wonder why such a great race like the Indians were subjugated by the British and made to feel so inferior?
Vj ~ Well you don't have to wonder anymore. It is very simple, there were far more of you (way of thinking) than me (wisdom).
Care to be a little less vague Mr. Smarty pants?
Vj ~ The majority (your way of thinking) were led to disbelief in the one true God and belief in false Gods and because of this rejection of this Vedic truth Indians fell from grace there were very little a few wise men (my way of thinking) could have done to avert the misery that has now befallen her and the world.
Dialogue 7
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Hello Amused One - Tuesday 1-Sep-1998
Vj ~ Hello Amused or not-amused-anymore (smile)
"I am sad you have so enjoyed mocking and ridiculing me. You have called me an idiot.
Vj ~ All this I can answer in one sentence - You came in very amused and left very sad. It shows that a degree by book knowledge does not benefit man when it comes to true happiness. There is a higher knowledge mankind must seek; when you realized this only then you can begin your journey for this most coveted prize. No one was ever issued a certificate for wisdom because it cannot be displayed by a piece of paper. Why? It is solely an individual effort coming from contemplation guided by correct knowledge. When you have acquired it, it becomes yours - it is not God's or a swami's - it is yours, the only thing good one takes with them into one’s next birth.
You also called me a fool. Condemned my soul. Exposed your beliefs; that some races of humanity are inherently better; than others. Exposed your belief that adherents of Vedism are better people."
Vj ~ A small price to pay for this wisdom but joy was ever present in me before you came; it is unfortunate that you could not have humbled yourself a little to take some of it. Had you poured such 'obscene outburst' at other religion debate boards they would have banned you and have your post deleted. But it was through humility and compassion for the unfortunate that you were continually encouraged on here. I hope you will be sincere enough to say that you have learnt something rather than be buried into your own selfish thoughts of how others see you as a fool. Benito has seen your deception also and I will say he is a better Psychologists. He has correctly analyzed your deceit to be our gain and your lost.
“Basically I have attacked and you attacked back. Knowing that I was an ignorant soul didn't matter you still meant to protect your own ego. You still meant to hurt mine."
Vj ~ The wise can draw nectar (wisdom) from even poison (fool). As I said before, should a drowning man accused his rescuer for smacking him in his effort to save him? Since you felt it and continued on it means you have enough of what it takes to reform the ego and I hope you will follow through on this assessment.
"I greatly apologize for the content of my posts. “The content was calculated to get a rise out of you to drive you from your center. To show you that it can be done that you are not yet what you desire to be. I hope you can learn from this as from all experiences positive and negative."
Vj ~ No one has asked for an apology and I will be the last to ask for one. I learn from everyone that comes here including you so why would I need an apology from someone who contributed to my uplift? I may not yet be what I desire to be, but it is not you who decides that.
"The Amuse One is not who I am as a person. It is an invented personality an experiment to see if any good could be accomplished.
Vj ~ There was good, but it is up to you to draw the benefit. It did not matter to me what personality you were, my answers would have been the same. Benito also sense this innocence throughout our debate and this is what reasoning is all about, not only teaching others but learning at the same time.
"I don't know that it has but I hope so. There is no one by that name who thinks ill of you. I only hope the best for you."
Vj ~ Your hope is a already a reality for me. I am on the true path and if you decide one day to read my site you may see the reasoning behind it all and then your own hope can also be transformed into a reality for you. "We don't agree on many things but it doesn't matter to me. You have your view and I have mine. So be it."
Vj ~ My view or your view can do no good to humanity but only that which is known through proper reasoning guided by correct knowledge. You have great fears of the unknown and perhaps the reason you cannot use your real name but it was indeed a great pleasure meeting you anyway. Please come again if you so desire.
Dialogue 8
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Hello Amused - Tuesday 1-Sep-1998
Vj ~ Now you are getting serious, very good questions my friend.
"I usually don't speak to rascists but..."
Vj ~ Anyone who disseminates true knowledge for the good of human race with the desire of liberating them from pain and misery can never be called a racist by even a man of little understanding. Sometimes to save a hysteric victim, there comes a need to punch him/her out cold. The physical nature is abusive but it was best approach to saving a life. Now use this analogy in the terms of the way you were shocked into a certain reality.
Well now you're getting a little shady. Cutting and pasting from different posts I've made, which is called taking words out of context to make you look better.
Vj ~ Words might make us look better but it is the wisdom demonstrated by it that counts. Besides, if I can do that with words, imagine how good I will be when you can reason along my lines.
How possibly could India have been "wise" enough to avert British Rule.
Vj ~ British rule was an unwelcome blessings to India. Swami Dayanand blamed Hinduism (idol-worship), the cause of their subjugation and not the British. He saw the British as a very organized race and had it not been for them, he admitted it would have been difficult for him to bring the Vedic knowledge back to his people. Literally speaking the ignorant idol-worshippers would have killed him long before. He therefore, did not take up the cause of liberation of India from foreign rule but instead seek to eliminate the ignorance that was the cause of their subjugation in the first place. What good would a race be in freedom when it is enslave in ignorance?
What could the Vedas have done in a practical sense? I'm curious.
Vj ~ It would have brought benevolence to the whole world by blending science with religion. It would have eradicated false religions the cause of prejudice and bigotry. Everyone would have had the knowledge to know why some suffer and some don't and more so if one suffers or in joy one would know why. But again natural law dictates the decadence of all things finite so the same goes for righteousness. Though Swami Dayanand was poisoned, I have always pointed to his assassination as the law of nature. Had he lived longer God knows what changes India might have taken place in India and the world but it wasn't meant to be. Universality of this faith is long gone and all we can do now is by our individual efforts.
So what about your Indian excavations? The Sphinx is at least 12 000 years old. The Indians didn't build that.
Vj ~ The Aryan civilization ended 5 000 years ago, before that we are looking at nearly 4 million years. Check out Vedic account of Creation.
There are excavations going on in the Bahamas on the sea floor that point to an advanced civilization. Atlantis has been found. Atlantis came before all others known...you will.
Vj ~ Still in harmony with the Vedic religion.
What does the Vedas say about extraterrestial life? Did it come from space too?
Vj ~ Vedic theology teaches that all things created by God is for a purpose nothing is useless. Our galaxy is not the only one but they are beyond counting. Every manifestation is the result of the conditions that must exist for souls to reap the fruits of their actions since God is just. It is for this purpose there is creation in the first place and the same time God can exercise His creative energy.
Is there life form on other planets or galaxies?
Vj ~ Yes! Even though it might not be like ours. Man supposedly went to the moon and found no water and concluded that there was no life form present. Maybe aliens landed in the Arabian desert too and found no water and probably return with no proof of life on earth also.
Dialogue 9
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Hello Amused -Wednesday 2-Sep-1998
Vj ~ I welcome you with open arms again my friend and may your thirst for wisdom be quenched.
"But I still think what you said is a load of B.S. Black people have the same reasoning potential as any others."
Vj ~ Blacks are intellectually superior as any other race, but because they are always treated as an inferior race they tend to buckle amidst such conditions which they themselves are mostly responsible for. Do you have any idea what it is really like to grow up with such a feeling? Inferiority is not a problem for any other race especially the white race so they strive unhindered by such misgivings.
"Perhaps as a race they are on the lower end of the intellectual scale. But individuals do claim exception. My brother-in-law for one.
Vj ~ There is a misconception that all men are equal. We are only equal under treatment of our own laws and that of God. We are all born in different conditions, with different inclinations and this makes us different, mentally, physically and spiritually in qualities of high medium and low in race, class, creed, health, wealth, happiness, misery, etc. These differences are a result of our past actions (virtuous and sinful) and this result in more strenuous efforts by some in lower conditions than others. It is God's Divine Justice. The crisis that impairs true judgment, is that, we try to convince ourselves that all are equal when in a literal sense our inequities speak differently.
”I believe in a number of root races. It is a more logical explanation than humans arising from any one race."
Vj ~ Logically speaking to support the Vedic claim the origin of the first race had to be between India and China since they are the two most populous countries and Asia the most populous continent. Secondly, what other race changes complexion drastically by these climatic conditions? Which race holds the oldest and only complete language (sanskrit) in the world? Which race holds the oldest religion or culture in the world? These are few facts, which cannot be disputed. "How could the Aryan civilization have existed for millions of years? They have no data to prove that. Only the words of the Vedas.”
Vj ~ Only the Vedas fulfill the five truths listed in the above post which is enough to validate its arguments. There are many Indian Philosophical books like the Bhagavat Gita Maha Bharat, which speak of Ancient Aryan civilization but in the West and for centuries as always our young ones are taught that the white race are the progenitors of all we come to know. These bigotries first took root in India itself 5 000 years ago where the Vedic knowledge was confined to only a few who took control over the masses. If it did why is it the only area they lived in?
Vj ~ The Aryan civilization eventually spread globally as many races until 6 000 years ago. Until then it was only one religion.
"The archaeological record contradicts this "knowledge" because ancient humans are not found past 35 000 years ago (except in extremely anomolous cases)."
Vj ~ You have to admit that there are imprecision as well in science and not everything that is known through science is accurate since there are many disagreements among scientist themselves.
"I do not believe in human evolution either in the classic sense. The jump between homo erectus and homo sapiens is just too great to have come about without some kind of artificial hand."
Vj ~ The evolution theory defies natural laws in that if we had evolved from lower beings, it would have been a steady process but the question is why did it come a dead stop. Even if we did evolved the next question is, how did we acquire intelligence since man had to be taught? "I have to logically conclude another space-faring race had to have intervened in our evolution as a species. Most likely the same race that still watches us today amongst the others."
Vj ~ Even if there were alien races the question would still have remained the same - Where did it all began?
Dialogue 10
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Hello Btigah - Namaste, Thursday 6-Aug-1998
"When you follow a religion you are following in the footsteps of someone's else's path. In some cases this will be good as your path may be similar but in others it would be quite different."
Vj ~ As I have written in my introduction that many are born into different faiths as a result of their past actions in previous births. This is all right since it is God divine's justice. But to remain as such, without investigating whether it is the truth or not, is false.
"For example a mentally retarded person or even a person with a low intelligence would find the Vedic religion impossible to comprehend. It is much too complex. They need something simpler. For them to learn to love themselves and others is probably the right step."
Vj ~ Quite true! The soul that is embodied as an animal (sinful actions) was also a human being in a previous life, so how does this soul seek elevation since animals are stupor? It means even the mentally retarded has to go through that period of misery until he/she is born with the capacity (or inclination) to ingrain the proper reasoning habits. Those who have that capacity and maybe weak in intelligence can begin their quest for God by a good teacher or as an atheist but to remain there the soul will be sinking again into misery since the effort was not made to attain a higher state or the right path.
"In effect Jesus' message was for the lowest common denominator. Everyone can understand his simple message."
Vj ~ If it is, then what good can come out of it when they chose to remain the lowest?
"And that in a nutshell is the reason why there is no ONE True Religion. There is however one TRUE PATH. You are on it my friend."
Vj ~ Well your nutshell has a crack indeed!. If there is one true path, isn't that one true religion since the path and the right path all must lead to the True path.
Let me clarify this a little. Airport Road is the true path to the airport, the main highway from which Airport Road branches off from is the Right Path and the other roads leading to the main highway is the path. All other roads going in opposite directions I will call lost for a long time (false religions).
"As am I and any other seeker. You can seek to change people's minds to "see" that the Vedic religion is "right" but you are wasting your time as much as any other religion who seeks to promote their own belief."
Vj ~ It is never a waste of time even if one soul is enlightened. The mere fact that the truth is being expounded is a blessed achievement for the one disseminating it and any soul that comes in contact with it.
"It is not a matter of right or wrong it is a matter of vibrational velocity... (I'm sure that went over everyone's heads sorry). Never mind that its not really important to know.”
Vj ~ Yes the soul must come with an inclination or vibration to ascertain what is true or false before it can be elevated. This we will never know until the effort is made to nurture it with the correct knowledge.
Dialogue 11
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Hello Btigah - Saturday 8-Aug-1998
Perhaps! But what do you think of the idea that certain souls reincarnate together in families, friends and lovers in order to help each other learn? I do agree that one that explore other ideas to find the truth.
Vj ~ What truth can be derived without the "correct knowledge?" The source knowledge will always be necessary but where do we look for it?
I don't believe animals or plants have souls
Vj ~ . They too, like human, born, age and die. Since the body is lifeless without a soul we can infer without doubt that the soul is life
Actually nor that the mentally retarded is a direct result of our own actions. They are no more miserable than anyone else in fact their emotions are probably more heightened much like children. I think its a little more complicated than karma although it ties in.
Vj ~ Since you do not have an answer, you will have to accept mine.
I think a better word for Christianity's teachings is probably the First step.
Vj ~ If it is when are they suppose to take the second step?
No you misunderstand. There is one path. All the different religions are on this path. Sometimes they run parallel sometimes they intersect some run longer than others up the path. None cover the whole path. But all have a place on it.
Vj ~ From the time I step out onto the street I know it may take me to the Airport. You are right about the path we have chosen but how would we know whether we are going in the right direction without making enquires. The path is being inquisitive to ask directions (functional intellect). Then next it is the right path and true path to contend with. Who would want to choose a path longer than usual (baring enormous pain and misery) to arrive at the usual destination?
Answer this: Is your motivation really to enlighten others for the sake of enlightenment or is it to stroke the ego of a self-important man? I have struggled with this as well. It is a good thing to remember as it influences the way you interact with others.
Vj ~ The ninth principle of Swami Dayanand's Samaj is that "No one should remain content with his own prosperity but the individual prosperity should be considered in the prosperity of all." This means only when one has found happiness (true knowledge) only then one can make others happy. It will be unselfish (an enormous sin) act for an Arya to deprive anyone of this knowledge. It boils down to whatever good you do for yourself you do it for the world and whatever pain you cause upon yourself is pain to others
Not quite what I meant but yes you are speaking of intuition something which people rarely cultivate or trust. I call it dipping into the universal mind where all the knowledge of the universe lies.
Vj ~ And where lies all the knowledge of the Universe?
And if anyone is interested I have my own Message Board as well: SpiritQuest
Vj ~ There can be no spirituality without the true knowledge of the Vedas and the continued practice of Yoga.
Dialogue 12
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hello Btigah Namaste - Wednesday 12-Aug-1998
What is namaste?
Vj ~ Namaste means "My salutations to you"- I thought you should know it since you have plans of meeting the 'master' Maitreya.
Your usual dicing of my posts still leaves me with the impression that you did not catch my overall point
Vj ~ Do I have to agree to leave you with a positive impression?
People need to learn at their own rate. No ONE religion is meant for everyone.
Vj ~ True, but what truth can be derived without the correct knowledge if the correct practice makes perfect. We are born into different religions because of our past inclinations and this is God's justice but to make no effort in seeking truth is a greater sin.
This is why so many religions have arisen is the first place (cultural and geographical barriers not withstanding).
Vj ~ False religions have risen from rejection of true religion because of lackadaisical actions, greed, bigotry, and lust for power.
Those who are ready for Vedism will know its truth.
Vj ~ How would they know if it is being denied to them?
What gives life to the souless? Energy similar to the soul but not sentient. Not individual.
Vj ~ Scientists have been able to harness all sorts of energy, don't you think they could have used it to prolong the life of animals whereby they could save the endangered species? I can’t see how you of all people, much less the retarded and children, can be ready for Vedism.
What makes the mentally retarded sentient and individual? If I do not have an answer for all questions about existence, I do not have to take yours. I am surprised you would say that.
Vj ~ Why be surprised when you neither can provide an answer nor find it anywhere else?
A person will take the second step when they are ready..
Vj ~ When is that? Many are already dead many are retarded and many were or are living in regions where there are no religion, how are they going to take the second step?
“Who would want to choose a longer path than necessary?” Those, who make mistakes. But by this we learn and it is necessary.
Vj ~ Many are already dead many are retarded many were or are living in regions where there are no religion how are they going to correct their mistakes?
I stand corrected.. You have noble intentions if not the best approach. But who does? The knowledge of the universe lies in the Universal Mind or whatever else it may be named.
Vj ~ Yes, but is it not through His revelation (instructions) that we can discover this knowledge?
Now it is quite untrue that there is no spirituality without the Vedas and I KNOW that must be an interpretation of your beliefs.
Vj ~ It depends on what you mean by spirituality. There are cults like People's temple Davidians etc. who have committed atrocities; there were prophets who committed incest adultery and murder all in the name of spirituality. There are those who adhered to their spiritual causes and still suffer immensely in spite of it.
Spirituality starts with realizing you are an immortal soul.
Vj ~ Only the Vedic religion teaches and acknowledges the three eternal entities - God Soul and matter. So once again, we are back to where spirituality starts, the Vedas.
Dialogue 13
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Hello Ananthan - Wednesday 14-Jul-1999
So you are saying that someone like Donald Trump has given more to the world than someone like Mother Teresa? Needless to say, I disagree.
Vj ~ Here is where a discriminating intellect (me) and a static one (you) differs. Mother Theresa was no doubt a kind woman but any attempt of showing kindness while indoctrinating false religion leads those souls to further damnation and deeper misery for her own. Again by caring for them, all she did was prolonging their miseries since they live longer to show contempt for true religion with her guidance. On the other hand, Donald Trump whatever he is by faith is his own choice but yet his wealth created jobs and perhaps millions given to charity without any personal indoctrination of a single soul. His sin is definitely lesser than that of Mother Theresa.
True wealth and mercantilism and capitalism have created many "grand" things in this world...skyscrapers research labs the internet. This is one side of the coin (no pun intended).
Vj ~ It is all part of God's creation for us to enjoy but with contentment in mind.
On the other side "wealth" has also helped destroy this world. Poverty only exists because wealth exists.
Vj ~ Not more than false religion,Both conditions exist since souls must return in them to reap the fruits of their actions good and bad. It is our past actions, that have created such conditions and will be our present actions that would determine future conditions. In wealth we must acquire to the correct knowledge to know why we were born in it and in poverty the same to know why we are born in suffering.
Capitalism (for example) has also created famine in Africa disease overpopulation in Asia destruction of nature in South America and a loss of humanity in the very West that gave birth to it.
Vj ~ No one suffers unjustly since God is just. Whatever the conditions are that is the reward or punishment for the soul. It is our goal to seek the right knowledge to get us out of suffering and towards the path perpetual happiness even though some will have to work harder while some may never make it, compulsion being so. It is neither Capitalism nor Socialism that is responsible but the lack of true knowledge.
When you worship wealth you may think you worship progress and global improvement but you also worship poverty and suffering and destruction. This is the truth (again no pun intended) of materialism. It is the very truth of desire.
Vj ~ When you worship the one true God of the Vedas you can find happiness in both wealth and poverty.
When you say "humanitarian efforts of wealth" it is an oxy-moron. People do things either for the sake of wealth or for the sake of humanitarianism. Humanitarians use what wealth they have for the sake--and only for the sake of--improving the human condition. The fruit of this type of action is spiritual upliftment of both the actor (humanitarian) and those whom s/he helps.
Vj ~ If one cannot uplift oneself spiritually by the true knowledge of the Vedas there is very little one can do for oneself, much less others one is unselfishly trying to help.
Materialists use their wealth for the sake of profit and self-betterment (even if they happen to help others while doing it). This type of action regardless of the external benefits drives the actor deeper into the depths of his imposing ego.
Vj ~ But at least they are not tirelessly engaged in brain-washing the free-born soul. This is the greatest sin of all since one tend to live out one’s lifetime in the worship of a false God.
What does this mean for the reincarnation? The former--the humanitarian whether Theist or Atheist--benefits from a rebirth more suitable for truth-realization.
Vj ~ Not if he/she are engaged in the practice of false dogmas.
The materialist on the other hand--Neither theist nor atheist (worshipper only of material)--adds another layer to the seed that is his/her ego and is reborn to a less "suitable" birth.
Vj ~ Maybe, but his/her chance, than those already brain-washed, of finding the truth with a functional intellect is by far a possibility.
Here we learn the truth that internalized karma is far more potent and influential (if you will) than the karma of external action (if such a thing exists in practicality). The ego-less man who helps one (if any) will advance in birth while the ego-ridden man who helps millions will not. Karma.
Vj ~ It does not matter how much they have helped one or millions, in the absence of true knowledge all souls loose.
This brings us to the point about Adi Shamkaracharya and his mother. He knew that higher rebirth comes not merely from "serving a wise son " but by renouncing the ego (which is what a true mother does to raise her children)--a quality that is affirmed and expanded again and again in the Great Epics (etc.).
Vj ~ Then how could his mother have renounced the ego, without the ability to grasp truth?
Dialogue 14
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Hello Ananthan - Thursday 15-Jul-1999
Careful when you excercise your intellect Vijai.
Vj ~ Why, is it that painful to the credulous?
These points: Theism is not the only thing that can (and is) indoctrinated Thoughtless One.
Vj ~ I know, but it is the most dangerous one when it comes to the issue of brainwashing the free-born intellect.
Materialism has been indoctrinated by so many in this world far more aggressively and ubiquitously than is/was any religion.
Vj ~ So why are the majority in poverty, rejection of materialism?
Undeniable. Remember this when you "weigh sin." (On this note let us also remember that capitalism and socialism ARE the absence of true knowledge.) ALL indoctrinations (in the present-day usage of the word) disable the intellect.
Vj ~ Most certainly, but still a lesser crime than false dogmas curbing the free-thought of the free-born soul.
Let us also remember that karma is an issue only for those who have not yet realized Brahman.
Vj ~ Karma is an issue for all, even the realized can become unrealized at sometime.
Those who have achieved realization are free from the reigns of karma.
Vj ~ True, but for how long? Our actions are finite and thus no soul can ever reap eternal rewards or punishment. Even a realized soul must return to a physical body after the the period of emancipation.
Karma is for those who live still in the world of separateness.
Vj ~ But since you know not of anyone who is in a realized state then all the world is in separateness and is subjected to karma.
The key therefore, for those who are yet to find the truth is progression.
Vj ~ Progression to what? What is the source of this truth and where does one start?
For those who know not of the truth levels of progression (degression) exist. These levels depend on the level of imposition of the ego.
Vj ~ And what are the results of these levels of impositions?
This should answer your concluding question.
Vj ~ Actually it is not an answer to my question since I still don't know where you want me to begin seeking progression.
Dialogue 15
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Hello Ananthan - Saturday 17-Jul-1999
I am not convinced that materialism is a "lesser crime" than theism just as you are not convinced of the contrary.
Vj ~ May be you will, if you can try reading the Light of Truth There are more of theists than materialist and it is the majority is afflicted with pain and sufferings. Doesn't that tell you something.
My succinct point on this issue is that because all indoctrinating ideas impede the intellect (and one can't say that theism does this more so than materialism) the "greater evil" (although I don't like that word "evil") is the one that promotes ego-based self-satisfaction-- namely materialism.
Vj ~ Materialism strives on the weaknesses of false religions. Had true religion not been abandoned mankind would have been less to be attached to.
And by the way the majority of the world is in poverty because the greater majority of the world accepts and abides by materialism.
Vj ~ Or perhaps religions have become materialistic also. Which religion in the world does not spend billions or millions in huge decorative and inexpensive monuments to display its spiritual might in order to attract the gullible followers?
I do suppose we agree that both groups in question have more to learn--as "we" all do.
Vj ~ The question is, where do we look for the correct knowledge for proper guidance?
But to answer your other questions: Perhaps it would be easier if I pointed out that you illustrated my point yourself in this last post. Those in the karmic realm (as you understood the whole world) must progress towards finding the truth carefully deliberately peeling away at the seed that is the ego.
Vj ~ Well to be inquisitive is not a bad start since reasoning is the first step, but then the correct knowledge must be there to guide that reasoning.
Progressively renouncing the ego in short. But there are undefined levels of this progression. One does not for example renounce his/her ego (in any genuine way) completely and in one shot. It usually happens scenario by scenario for example as according to various stations in life (such as parenthood)--layer by layer.
Vj ~ Renouncing the ego can only be done through the practice of Yoga. One must first abandon whatever one has acquired through false religion to let in the spirit of good reasoning in order to determine what is truth and what is false. If this step is not taken in this birth, then the soul is apt to fall into deeper pains in the next birth.
Turning to Shamkaracharya's mother he knew that some of the devotional aspects of her religion helped guide her through some of these scenarios which are opportunities to peel away the ego. This in short, is how the ego can be renounced progressively without complete truth-realization.
Vj ~ Devotion in the absence of knowledge alone cannot elevate the soul. Billions are devoted to a false God so what blessings can that be to the soul?
Dialogue 16
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Hello Ananthan - Sunday 18-Jul-1999
There are far more materialists than theists--far more.
Vj ~ Let us not loose track of atheism whom you have branded as materialists. They are fewer than theists and very rational in their thinking.
I think you're reaching a bit here Vijai. And in this attempt I see that you have strengthened my point.
Vj ~ Maybe not, considering who the materialists are, when you first started out?
I think you're reaching a bit here Vijai. And in this attempt I see that you have strengthened my point. You asserted that millions are in poverty because "religion has become materialistic."
Vj ~ My assertion is that any theist that are materialistic is so because their religions have no way of bringing them contentment.
So it is not the theistic core philosophy of many religions that causes the greatest suffering and ignorance but the deterioration of these religions (or prominent practitioners of these religions to be more precise) into materialism.
Vj ~ When a religion is already false, what can it further deteriorate to?
From your own mouth. Point proven. (I think you just have to examine your own thoughts and words again.)
Vj ~ Maybe or it could be your misconception of true religion. Until you can determine the source of truth, then even yours have failed you
But as far as ego-renunciation goes I do not completely agree with you. There is a point to which the ego can be sacrificed without the presence of complete knowledge after that point yes greater knowledge is required. Remember layer by layer
Vj ~ So how would this foster a higher birth if the greater knowledge has not been acquired in this life?
Dialogue 17
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Hello Ananthan - Monday 19-Jul-1999
Replace "greater" with "true" and you reach what has been my point all along. Progression to absolute. I'm glad you reached in your words at least. Keep thinking though.
Vj ~ A agree with slow or active progression of knowledge also but what is your source of this truth or absolute?
As far as materialism goes it seems you have misunderstood once again. I never said all atheists were materialists.
Vj ~ Nor did I say they were. The discussion began with the statement of "It is better be an atheist than a hypocrite." You were the one who made materialist out them.
Atheists CAN (and quite often are) materialists--but not necessarily. (For example remember when I mentioned atheistic humanists?? And atheistic spiritual empiricists??) Furthermore no completely rational atheist could be a materialist nor could a TRUE theist. Materialists are in a class unto themselves.
Vj ~ It doesn't matter who is a materialists or not but the question still remains that a rational atheist is in a better position to know the true God than the credulous of any faith or religion.
So again, please think and write more carefully.
Vj ~ I did, perhaps you should read more carefully.Hello Ananthan -Tuesday 20-Jul-1999
You said (quoted) "It is better to be an atheist than a hypocrite (i.e. theist)." I responded by saying that it is better to be a theist than a materialist. That's all--plain and simple.
Vj ~ It is not that plain and simple. Whom do you consider a theist? One who believe in any God one feel comfortable with or one who knows the one true God? Again are there no theist that are also materialist?
You ask what is the source of the truth/absolute? The truth pervades without and imminates within us we just have to find it.
Vj ~ If it is within us then what is the necessity of revelation – revealed knowledge?
How? We find it by slowly peeling away the illusion of separateness (i.e. the ego etc.) through yoga.
Vj ~ But to begin the practice of Yoga one must first become acquainted with the correct knowledge. Where would you look for this knowledge?
Yoga in ALL its forms that is (including at an eventual stage meditation). I think we are in agreement here?
Vj ~ Not if you don't know the source of true reasoning.
Dialogue 18
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Hello Ananthan - Wednesday 21-Jul-1999
Well...I define a theist as one who genuinely believes in a God.
Vj ~ Does this mean a fool who "genuinely" believe in God, the only requirement for belief, is better off than a materialist who constantly strive for wealth and as a result can contribute more to society?
By "God" I mean a supreme being with a personality character etc.
Vj ~ There are many Gods of such "personality character etc" which one are you referring to?
(In short one who believes in the common concept of God.)
Vj ~ What is this common concept of God?
By this definition the "one true God" of the Vedas Upanishads etc. is indeed not a "God."
Vj ~ Really but the knowledge of Yoga which you earlier state one must practice for enlightenment was revealed by this God.
So true Vedists are not theists in this common definition. By God it is that simple!
Vj ~ What you have now made simple is that you are a confused idiot.
The necessity of revelation is to find (i.e. uncover) the truth within and without us.
Vj ~ How can you find truth without yourself? Then by your reasoning even a mad man, who is not himself, can find truth.
The methods by which to come closer to revealing this truth is found in our scriptures (Veda Upanishad etc.).
Vj ~ How can it be when one is not a theist by this scripture?
Finding the knowledge by which to find the knowledge that leads to finding the truth.
Vj ~ You must be a full fledged Yogi by now since you know how to find this truth.Hello Ananthan - Friday 23-Jul-1999
One more thing...&
Vj ~ I hope for your sake it is not the final question.
Do you really believe that God (Brahman Vedic God) actually "acts" and/or "does"?
Vj ~ How else can you explain the adversities (pain and misery) all around us? It is His Divine act of dispensing justice as punishment for all those who have rejected the true religion of the Vedas. Even those who are enjoying great wealth (luxury) must also wonder why they are so well rewarded otherwise they too will suffer the consequences.
Dialogue 19
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Hello Ananthan - Saturday 24-Jul-1999
No no; you misunderstand.
Vj ~ Obviously I shouldn't expect you to understand.
you believe that Brahman "DOES" things.
Vj ~ If you mean the murti (idol) Ganesha drinking milk or virgin Mary weeps blood no. Any action that breaches the immutable laws of nature cannot be an act of God.
This question came up as I was reading "Satya Prakasha.
Vj ~ The answer should also be there, but if you are seeking an answer from me, it simply means you didn’t understand what you were reading.
And for both our sakes it will not be my last question.
Vj ~ I see it as for your sake and not mine.
(Instead of "hoping " a more effective POE would be to think and answer and discuss. Make certain through your actions.)
Vj ~ So far my actions are in harmony with my knowledge and if they are otherwise I certainly hope you can point it out to me.Hello Ananthan - Sunday 25-Jul-1999
Actually no. I did on the other hand expect you to understand
Vj ~ Expect me to understand that Ganesha drinking milk is some divine act of God. This is how your conversation started.
but allow me to clarify.
Vj ~ Well now your shifting to being sensible.
By my question as to God "doing" I was refering to many passages in the Swami's and your writing such as "God punishes..." and "God loves..." and "God desires for his creation...".
Vj ~ God punishes - His justice for sinful actions; God loves - His justice for virtuous actions and that no one gets more or less than what they deserve; and God desires - like a Father and Mother who desire the best for their children, so is God the Great Father or Mother of all creation desires good for all. God is All-bliss and as such He has no desire meaning that desire or not it does not affect His blissful state.
This type of language--more so in your rhetoric than the Swami's--seems to lead the reader away from the Vedic concept of a unified truth that is "God."
Vj ~ Then again if the reader does not ingrain the proper reasoning habits (by the correct knowledge) he will never come out of ignorance to recognize whether he is misled or not.Monday 26-Jul-1999
I see. Interesting. Well I don't think God "does" things. But shall we pick that point up later. Well I must say that I have enjoyed our discussion a great deal. I always enjoy learning. I will be out of country starting tomorrow so I will have to sign off from the conversation at this point. But I would like to thank you for indulging me with your time. When I return may we start up again. Best wishes to you Vijai
Dialogue 20
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Namaste vinita - Wednesday 28-Jul-1999
Om. Nameste Vijai Bhai your home page is an inspiration. Keep up the good work!!
Vj ~ Thank you Vinita, I had no intention of it doing otherwise.
There is however one thing that bothers me about it and our movement in general.
Vj ~ There is a lot of things that bothers me of the movement itself, but from where I am standing, I far above them.
This may well be because of a lack of true understanding so please enlighten me
Vj ~ It will be a pleasure.
Relentless criticism soul searching leading to the awakening of the soul and the intellect has done much to edify and improve the world in which we are living in.
Vj ~ In my opinion the relentless criticism that exists in earlier years of this movement has completely lost its strength except for a very few like myself.
Swami Dayanand and people like you should be lauded for your invaluable service to mankind.
Vj ~ Only the wise though, would recognize the virtue in such good works.
However the reaction I often get from non Arya Samajists about our ideals and philosophy is more often than not negative rather than positive.
Vj ~ If you mean positive, then either a compromise has been made or those non-aryas are somewhat intelligent. I am truly in doubt of the latter.
Alongside being branded as 'fundamentalists' and 'bigots' our movement is judged to be too cerebral.
Vj ~ It only shows that a better life to come or emancipation is not just a simple gift, but an obvious demand of continuous and strenuous individual practice through Yoga.
Those used to equating Eastern spirituality with irrational but comforting mysticism are turned off by the cold (but correct) reasoning of the Swami in Satyarth Prakash.
Vj ~ Compulsion being so, we cannot change that. It will be an ideal time for you to read the other comments to Ashegan on this board. We are also dealing with the same subject.
It's no wonder that these people find solace instead in the Hare Krishna movement and the like which purport to offer a 'vedic' place of rest in a realm beyond the intellect i.e one dictated by the heart.
Vj ~ Very true, these intellects have become static and a very few can be nurtured back to our truth. It is a very slow process but don't savor high hopes of freeing the whole world in Kaliyug.
Our philosophy in it's harsh realism smacks too much of the 'cold' 'heartless' even (what they perceive to be)'Godless' world that they are trying to run away from.
Vj ~ It is more like purity and conviction of the soul, what is good for you is good for the world and what is painful to you is painful to others. This may seem selfish but if one cannot experience perpetual happiness, there is nothing one can do make others happy.
Now I am not calling for a watering down of any of the tenets of our movement.
Vj ~ I would see it as a compromise or tolerance and it is even more harmful than not doing anything at all. Truth is one, and it can only be disseminated by exposing what is false.
The Satyarth Prakash should continue to be it's foundation.
Vj ~ It must always be the foundation; it is the sole purpose of a reformer and we must never deviate from his way.
But I really feel alongside incisive rational criticism (both very healthy and necessary to improve this world) our movement should place equal emphasis on the eternal Vedic message of love compassion and magnanimity that permeates and helps sustain the natural order that God has created.
Vj ~ In fact it does, there is no greater compassion and love for this creation (humans and animals alike) when the truth is expounded in such a vigorous way even though it may offend.
More references to Vedic scripture reflecting this message and how we can practically apply it so that we can lead more wholesome lives i.e through meditational and yogic techniques doing yajna etc would paint a more accurate picture of what it means to be an Aryan and to follow true Vedic principles.
Vj ~ This application requires the effort to strive for the proper reasoning guided by practice of the correct knowledge. Today the movement of Arya Samaj is in disarray in the absence of this practice. If they are themselves a failure of their own culture, what can be expected for others.
We must continue to be ever vigilant and ready to dispel ignorance but let's not forget that our motivation should always be the love of God and everything that he created.
Vj ~ Truth has no other meaning and if God cannot cure a fool, don't expect the Swami's message do it.
I hope your homepage will place more emphasis on such motivations in the future lest we be branded as 'haters' rather than 'lovers' of God.
Vj ~ True knowledge and those who have atttained it have nothing to fear from those who want to do the branding. It is not subjected to blasphemy or desecration. It is pure and pleasantly rewarding for those who expound it without fear, comprise, emotion or sentiments for friends, family and the gullible.
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