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Author Iris.
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Posts: 157
(8/21/04 2:35 am)
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Discourse on Moses Foretold the Coming of Jesus (Yeshua):
INTRODUCTION:
The coming of Jesus (Yeshua), the Messiah, was foretold by the Prophet Moses (Mosche). In fact, Moses (Mosche) prefigured Jesus (Yeshua) Christ. How so? For one the Prophet Moses was a mediator between God (YHWH) and the nation of Israel; whereas, Jesus (Yeshua) would later be made by God (YHWH), his Father, the only mediator between God (YHWH) and mankind per 1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, [himself] man, Christ Jesus," (American Standard Version; ASV). Interestingly even in death there was a parallel between the Prophet Moses and Jesus (Yeshua) in that is both cases God (YHWH) disposed of their bodies, but we will get into that in more detail later. But unlike the Prophet Moses who stumbled, and Jesus (Yeshua) did not. Now let's go into depth on the subject.
PREFIGURED JESUS (YESHUA) CHRIST:
When Jesus (Yeshua) was on earth, he made it clear that Moses (Mosche) had written about him. On one occasion he told his opposers, John 5:43-47, "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, who receive glory one of another, and the glory that [cometh] from the only God ye seek not? 45 Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, [even] Moses, on whom ye have set your hope. 46 For if ye believed Moses, ye would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" (ASV). In fact, this was affirmed also when Jesus (Yeshua) was speaking to his disciples at Luke 24:25-27, "And he said unto them, O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Behooved it not the Christ to suffer these things, and to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." (ASV); and by the disciple Philip at John 1:45, "Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. 46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see. 47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! 48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. 49 Nathanael answered him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel. 50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee underneath the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye shall see the heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." (ASV).
Moses (Mosche) himself wrote many things concerning Jesus (Yeshua), for example at Deuteronomy 18:17-19, "And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him." (ASV). Interestingly the Apostle Peter, when he quoted from this prophecy left no doubt that it was referring to Jesus (Yeshua) as shown at Acts 3:18-22, "But the things which God foreshowed by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled. 19 Repent ye therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that so there may come seasons of refreshing from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that he may send the Christ who hath been appointed for you, [even] Jesus: 21 whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, whereof God spake by the mouth of His holy prophets that have been from of old. 22 Moses indeed said, A prophet shall the Lord God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me. To him shall ye hearken in all things whatsoever he shall speak unto you." (ASV).
Interestingly this fact that Jesus (Yeshua) was the prophet spoken of by the Prophet Moses(Mosche) was made vividly clear in the transfiguration scene that the the Apostles Peter, James, and John were permitted to see where Moses and Elijah were seen figuratively speaking with Jesus. This scene represented the Law Covenant, the theocratic government or arrangement of the congregation, the deliverance of the nation, and the coming of the Promised Land. This vision clearly showed that Jesus (Yeshua) would do greater works than Moses, and that he would also do work like that of Elijah, but in a more grand way. Thus it was clearly manifested that Jesus (Yeshua) was the Son of God (YHWH) and was indeed the 'Prophet greater than was Moses', but let's look at what the Bible shows about the transfiguration at Matthew 17:1-3, "And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart: 2 and he was transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light. 3 And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him." (ASV).
In fact, there was a significant pictorial correspondency between these two, Jesus (Yeshua) and Moses (Mosche). Both infants escaped a wholesale slaughter of male infants ordered by a ruler of their time.
Moses (Mosche) - Exodus 1:22 and 2:1-10, "And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive." And "And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi. 2 And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months. 3 And when she could not longer hide him, she took for him an ark of bulrushes, and daubed it with slime and with pitch; and she put the child therein, and laid it in the flags by the river's brink. 4 And his sister stood afar off, to know what would be done to him. 5 And the daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the river; and her maidens walked along by the river-side; and she saw the ark among the flags, and sent her handmaid to fetch it. 6 And she opened it, and saw the child: and, behold, the babe wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews' children. 7 Then said his sister to Pharaoh's daughter, Shall I go and call thee a nurse of the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for thee? 8 And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, Go. And the maiden went and called the child's mother. 9 And Pharaoh's daughter said unto her, Take this child away, and nurse it for me, and I will give thee thy wages. And the woman took the child, and nursed it. 10 And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses, and said, Because I drew him out of the water." (ASV).
Whereas, Jesus (Yeshua) - Matthew 2:13-18, "Now when they were departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I tell thee: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. 14 And he arose and took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt; 15 and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt did I call my son. 16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the Wise-men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the male children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had exactly learned of the Wise-men. 17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying, 18 A voice was heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children; And she would not be comforted, because they are not. " (ASV).
Both were at one time called out of Egypt with God's (YHWH's) 'firstborn', the nation of Israel. Jesus (Yeshua) was called out of Egype as God's (YHWH) firstborn son.
Moses (Mosche) - Exodus 4:22-23, "And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, my first-born: 23 and I have said unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me; and thou hast refused to let him go: behold, I will slay thy son, thy first-born." (ASV), And Hosea 11:1, "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." (ASV)
Jesus (Yeshua) - Matthew 2:15 and 19-21, "and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt did I call my son." And "But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, saying, 20 Arise and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead that sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel." (ASV)
Both Moses (Mosche) and Jesus (Yeshua) were exceptionally humble and meek.
Moses (Mosche) - Numbers 12:3, "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men that were upon the face of the earth.
Jesus (Yeshua) - Matthew 11:28-30, "Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light" (ASV)
Both Moses (Mosche) and Jesus (Yeshua) fasted for 40 days in a wilderness location.
Moses (Mosche) - Exodus 34:28, "And he was there with Jehovah forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." (ASV)
Jesus (Yeshua) - Matthew 4:1-2, "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he afterward hungered. " (ASV).
MOSES (MOSCHE) AND JESUS (YESHUA) AS MEDIATORS:
Moses (Mosche) was the mediator of the Law Covenant between God (YHWH) and the ancient nation of Israel for God (YHWH); whereas, Jesus (Yeshua) became the Mediator of the New Covenant between God (YHWH) and his nation of faithful followers, the 'spiritual Israel,' as shown at 1 Peter 2:9-12, "But ye are a elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for [God's] own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 who in time past were no people, but now are the people of God: who had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 11 Beloved, I beseech you as sojourners and pilgrims, to abstain from fleshly lust, which war against the soul; 12 having your behavior seemly among the Gentiles; that, wherein they speak against you as evil-doers, they may by your good works, which they behold, glorify God in the day of visitation."; and at Galatians 6:16-19, " And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace [be] upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. 17 Henceforth, let no man trouble me; for I bear branded on my body the marks of Jesus. 18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brethren. Amen" (ASV); and at Exodus 19:3-9, "And Moses went up unto God, and Jehovah called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: 4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be mine own possession from among all peoples: for all the earth is mine: 6 and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and set before them all these words which Jehovah commanded him. 8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that Jehovah hath spoken we will do. And Moses reported the words of the people unto Jehovah." (ASV); and at Luke 22:19-20, "And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, [even] that which is poured out for you" (ASV); and at Hebrews 86-7, "But now hath he obtained a ministry the more excellent, by so much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, which hath been enacted upon better promises. 7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then would no place have been sought for a second" (ASV).
BOTH WERE JUDGES AND LAWGIVERS.
Both Moses (Mosche) and Jesus (Yeshua) Christ served as lawgivers, leaders and judges of the congregation. This was shown with respect Moses (Mosche) as a judge at Exodus 18:13, "And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood about Moses from the morning unto the evening." (ASV); and as a leader at Exodus 32:34, "And now go, lead the people unto [the place] of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine angel shall go before thee; nevertheless in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them." (ASV); and Daniel 9:25, "Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times." (ASV).
Whereas, Jesus (Yeshua) was shown to be the appointed leader at Matthew 23:8-12, "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your teacher, and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, [even] he who is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, [even] the Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled; and whosoever shall humble himself shall be exalted." (ASV); and as the appointed judge at John 5:21-30, "For as the Father raiseth the dead and giveth them life, even so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. 22 For neither doth the Father judge any man, but he hath given all judgment unto the Son; 23 that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father that sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself: 27 and he gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, 29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. 30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." (ASV); and that he would be the leader of a new congregation is shown at John 1334-35,: "A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; even as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." (ASV); and affirmed at John 15:14-17, "Ye are my friends, if ye do the things which I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I heard from my Father, I have made known unto you. 16 Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit should abide: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that ye may love one another." (ASV).
Whereas, Moses (Mosche) was given the stewardship over the ancient nation of Israel or God's (YHWH's) congregation at that time, Jesus (Yeshua) is given the stewardship over spiritual Israel, the congregation of God (YHWH) today per Numbers 12:7 in the case of Moses (Mosche), "My servant Moses is not so; he is faithful in all my house:". With respect Jesus (Yeshua) Hebrews 3:1-6 says, "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, [even] Jesus; 2 who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also was Moses in all his house. 3 For he hath been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by so much as he that built the house hath more honor than the house. 4 For every house is builded by some one; but he that built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all his house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were afterward to be spoken; 6 but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast our boldness and the glorying of our hope firm unto the end." (ASV).
MEDIATOR OF A NEW COVENANT:
Whereas Moses (Mosche) was a mediator and judge under the old Law Covenant, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is the mediator of the new covenant as has been shown above. He is the greater prophet spoken of by Moses (Mosche) who prefigured him. Some try and falsely claim that Jesus (Yeshua) Christ was just a prophet and fail to recognize he was much more since God (YHWH), his Father, has appointed him as the mediator over the New Covenant as previously shown. In fact 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 shows that God (YHWH) has given him all authority over everything but himself who was exempted at 1 Corinthians 15:27, let's look at these scriptures, " For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming. 24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. 27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him. 28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all." (ASV). Clearly this scripture leaves no doubt with respect to his authority and shows clearly he is the prophet greater than Moses (Mosche) that Moses (Mosche) said was coming.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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starjade
Member
Posts: 51
(8/23/04 6:38 pm)
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 Re: Discourse on Moses Foretold the Coming of Jesus (Yeshua)
Well hello there Iris. I have read this statement and it is very interesting and informative. It shows that Jesus has claimed that he is that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. And also the Christians evidence that proves that claim. 
I have been having conversations with Muslims about Jesus.
I have explained to them how Jesus claiming that he was that prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. I have pointed out to Muslims that this was the Prophet who Jesus had claimed himself to be. And this is what all the Christians all around the world no matter what Christian Church they follow all believe about Jesus.
To confirm they all believe that Jesus is that long awaited Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. That is what the Christians religion is all about and in fact the whole of the Christians New testament is a testimony to that very claim.
Curiously the Muslims Prophet Muhammad also believed in Jesus and 11 chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being that Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be. And as a Christian you are pointing out to us that the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be, is that very Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
And you also make it clear that Moses and Isaiah had both written about Jesus in their prophecies regarding the coming of this long awaited prophet.
It is seems very clear that you are very sure about the facts of the claims of Jesus. As you are clearly a practising Christian would you say that you are in a position of some authority to make those Christian claims on behalf of the Christian Church. Do all the Christians walking the face of this earth all believe that Jesus is that prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
Here is an odd thing though Iris.
The Muslims claim that their prophet Muhammad has made personal claims that he alone is that long awaited Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. Muhammad claims that Moses and Isaiah had written about him and he said that the angel Gabriel had appeared to him and told Muhammad to his face, that he was that prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. That is the Islamic claim of Muslims around the world.
They say that Muhammad is the last prophet to come from God and no other will come after him. But they also says that the Prophet Jesus will come after Muhammad but will be an ordinary man and that Jesus will give his worship to Muhammad and bow down on his knees to Islam.
I understand from your discourse that Christians would not believe that claim. But in fact Christians all around the world believe that Jesus will in fact return to this planet and fulfil the Living Gods Prophecy and gather those Jews up from the four corners of the Globe and lead them all to the promised Land. Is that so. ?
If that is so what is the Christians view on Muhammad who insists that he alone is that prophet that Moses and Isaiah had been speaking about. Is it possible that Jesus was mistaken and Muhammad is that prophet instead or is Muhammad mistaken and Jesus is that prophet. Is it possible for both Jesus and Muhammad to have been the very same Prophet. Surley they could not both be the same Prophet.
Muslims do not seem aware of the Christians belief that Jesus is that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. That is the exact Prophet that Muhammad has claimed himself to be and the Koran is a Testimony to that claim. And Muslims world wide are insisting that.
I see a conflict where Muhammad and Jesus are both making claims to being that very long awaited Prophet. So I wanted to be sure of the facts before I spoke. Are you certain that it is believed that Jesus is that very specific Prophet that God has promised Moses that he would raise up. Is that a fact believed by all the Christians here on this earth. Are you absolutely certain that he is believed to be that very Prophet.
If so then this is going to require a great deal of explanations by the Muslims who appear to be making those same claims about Muhammad. I am sure that God only promised Moses that he would raise up just one Prophet and so who can we believe that prophet to be.
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habibio4
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Posts: 219
(8/23/04 10:46 pm)
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Re: Discourse on Moses Foretold the Coming of Jesus (Yeshua)
Starjade... you got it wrong.... christians don't believe jesus to be a prophet but the son of God... has nothing to do w/ prophethood. The problem is that neither christian nor jews accept muhammad as a prophet... maybe if they figured that out then we'd all just get along.
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Karaite
Posts: 116
(8/24/04 4:29 am)
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.
Quote:
Starjade... you got it wrong.... christians don't believe jesus to be a prophet but the son of God...
How does being the son of God at all deny that he was/is a prophet? Could you please provide me with your sources, where do you get this idea that Christians don't believe Jesus to be a prophet?
Heck, why would we believe and follow him, if we did not consider him a prophet?
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starjade
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Posts: 52
(8/24/04 3:24 pm)
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who believes Jesus is not Gods Prophet.
Quote:
habibio4 you say: Starjade... you got it wrong.... christians don't believe jesus to be a prophet but the son of God... has nothing to do w/ prophethood.
Starjade says: well thankyou for pointing that statement out to me habibio4 I have had that same statement thrown at me by many Muslims who use it as an explanation that fits their Islamic world. Because we both know Muhammad has proclaimed himself to being that prophet that god promised Moses he would raise up. Most Muslims read only the Koran and do not indulge in other religions.
But iris is a Christian and so she ought to know what Christians believe and I also know that Jesus claimed that he was that Prophet that Moses said he would raise up and I have pointed that out as being the biggest error in the Koran. For as you may know Muhammad claims that he is that same prophet and also used the angel Gabriel to proclaim such claims. Not wise to believe that Jesus is the Prophet Jesus claims himself to be. And then devote 11 chapters of the Koran proving that to be a fact that Muhammad believed in Jesus.
And then proclaim yourself to being that same prophet that Jesus was claiming himself to be. You have heard it yourself the Christians beliefs. quote
Quote:
Iris quote/ Moses (Mosche) himself wrote many things concerning Jesus (Yeshua), for example at Deuteronomy 18:17-19, "And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him." (ASV). Interestingly the Apostle Peter, when he quoted from this prophecy left no doubt that it was referring to Jesus
Starjade says: This statement clearly indicates that the Prophet God promised Moses he would raise up would be a Prophet. And this is who Jesus has claimed himself to be. That specific long awaited Prophet. So Christians do believe that Jesus is that Prophet.
Quote:
Iris quote/ 22 Moses indeed said, A prophet shall the Lord God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me. To him shall ye hearken in all things whatsoever he shall speak unto you." (ASV).
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Iris quote/ Interestingly this fact that Jesus (Yeshua) was the prophet spoken of by the Prophet Moses(Mosche) was made vividly clear
Quote:
Iris quote/ When Jesus (Yeshua) was on earth, he made it clear that Moses (Mosche) had written about him. On one occasion he told his opposers, John 5:43-47, "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, who receive glory one of another, and the glory that [cometh] from the only God ye seek not? 45 Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, [even] Moses, on whom ye have set your hope. 46 For if ye believed Moses, ye would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" (ASV).
Starjade says: These statements make it very clear that the Christians consider and believe that jesus was that prophet that the Living God promised Moses he would raise up. And that long awaited Prophet is the King of all the Jews. That is all the descendants of Abraham. So it seems very clear to me that the Christians are saying that jesus is a Prophet and so they clearly do believe Jesus is a prophet.
So how can you say then that Christians do not believe that Jesus is a Prophet. When they do appear to proclaim jesus as being that prophet. And I am sure that iris is a Christian from her written text. What is your religion ?
Clearly then these Christian claims and beliefs have something to do with prophet hood. It seems very clear that Jesus has said:
Quote:
Iris quote/ 45 Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, [even] Moses, on whom ye have set your hope. 46 For if ye believed Moses, ye would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" (ASV).
Starjade says: Now we know Moses spoke about the coming of a prophet that god promised Moses he would raise up. It appears that is what Jesus was talking about when he said that Moses had written about him.
Quote:
habibio4 you say:
The problem is that neither christian nor jews accept muhammad as a prophet... maybe if they figured that out then we'd all just get along.
Starjade says: maybe if we all figured out who was that prophet and who is telling the truth and who is not we could all get along even better.
I would ask you to give details of all of Muhammad’s Doomsday prophecies only so we could Judge if Muhammad really is a prophet or not. I asked a Muslim once for that exact data. He took a long time looking. Then he came online and said that Muhammad had Prophesied in those End of Times that it would grow very dark. I think that maybe Muhammad could be right about that.
You see the reason I mention these things is because this Prophet that Moses Prophesied about was coming along at the End of Times when as it was in the days of Noah there will be an extinction of the species. This was why this Prophet Moses spoke about was going to gather up all those descendants of Abraham from the four corners of the Globe and lead them all to a new promised land.
So if Muhammad was that prophet then he clearly would have given those details. I know I am not a Muslim or a Christian but surley you could let me know a few things of what Muhammad has said will be happening in those Days. As Muhammad would be bound to have spoken about such things if he really was that Prophet that Moses Prophesied God would raise up. Can you supply those details or do you have to be a Muslim to receive those revelations. Are those end of Times Revelations written in the Koran can you supply the Suras. Did this Angel Gabriel that Muhammad spoke about give any such details of that End of Times or did God mention them to Muhammad as I heard that Muhammad and god had a Meeting.
Edited by: starjade at: 8/24/04 7:37 pm
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starjade
Member
Posts: 53
(8/24/04 3:40 pm)
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 Do Christians think Jesus is a prophet.
Quote:
Starjade... you got it wrong.... christians don't believe jesus to be a prophet but the son of God...
Starjade says: it is not likely but to err is human.
Karaite you said:
How does being the son of God at all deny that he was/is a prophet? Could you please provide me with your sources, where do you get this idea that Christians don't believe Jesus to be a prophet?
Starjade says: I know the question was not asked of me but as I was here I thought I would bung in my 3 penneth. I believe that Muslims are taught this at an early age by their teachers. Its called misdirection in certain circles. (its only a theory of mine)
Karaite you said: Heck, why would we believe and follow him, if we did not consider him a prophet?
Starjade says: Mmm point taken, does this mean that you are a Christian and if that is true as a Christian would you say that jesus is a Prophet and do you then believe as all Christians do that Jesus is that prophet that god promised Moses he would raise up.
Edited by: starjade at: 8/24/04 7:25 pm
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 soul kurri
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Posts: 5899
(8/24/04 3:49 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Do Christians think Jesus is a prophet.
bible is a mindless story of an irresponsible incompetant sadist old man in white robe called god who couldn't control his own creations sends his son to die for it, in some of the worst torturous ways !! Enjoy!!
If it turns out that there is a God, I don't think that he's evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever.
DESIVOICEEdited by: soul kurri at: 8/24/04 3:51 pm
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starjade
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Posts: 55
(8/24/04 3:59 pm)
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Re: Do Christians think Jesus is a prophet.
soul kurri you said: The bible is a mindless story of an irresponsible incompetant sadist old man in white robe called god who couldn't control his own creations sends his son to die for it, in some of the worst torturous ways !! Enjoy!!
Starjade says: Well hello there soul kurri. So in your view God is a man in a white robe. I wonder how you arrived at that conclusion. And are you so sure those Biblical stories are all true. It is clear now there is some debate.
soul kurri you then say: If it turns out that there is a God, I don't think that he's evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever.
Starjade says: When I look around at the Cosmos and see the many things I do. I am in awe. And so if the Living God made those things then we are the ones who are the under achievers and not worthy yet privileged to even speak of Gods name.
Edited by: starjade at: 8/24/04 4:00 pm
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soul kurri
RELOADED
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(8/24/04 4:46 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Do Christians think Jesus is a prophet.
Starry,
did i tell you, there is a "quote" option available on the left hand corner under the caption of inserts, when you type the message...You just have to copy the quote from the message and select the option...It comes as a quote..far easier to follow than the method you are applying. May be you'd like to use it!!
If it turns out that there is a God, I don't think that he's evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever.
DESIVOICE |
iris89
Posts: 162
(8/24/04 4:48 pm)
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and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you fr
Hi Everyone
One poster wrote, <<"Curiously the Muslims Prophet Muhammad also believed in Jesus and 11 chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being that Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be. And as a Christian you are pointing out to us that the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be, is that very Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.">>. The fact is there is nothing in reality nor in grammer that would perclude Jesus (Yeshua) from both being the prophet and the Son of God (YHWH). In fact quite the contrary, his life force being born as a human would clearly make inevitable that he would be both as he truly was.
Another poster made a mindless comment as follows, <<"bible is a mindless story of an irresponsible incompetant sadist old man in white robe called god who couldn't control his own creations sends his son to die for it, in some of the worst torturous ways !! Enjoy!!">>
This poster is obviously ignorant of the fact that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time.
To wit, the Bible is the ONLY book God (YHWH) ever inspired men to write as his scribes. In other words, God is its author and men only put his thoughts given to them by divine inspiration into their own words, the words of men. Not only that, all the other writers of later so called religious guidance books borrowed from it and made changes in accord with their strong man or so called prophet. Take the example of Joseph Smith who borrowed from it to write the Book of Mormon, but failed to give credit or source to the Bible and twisted some borrowed things into bizarre distortions. Other examples are of course the bizarre writings of David Koresh the Prophet of the Branch Dividians of Waco, Texas; and the Quran, and the Book of Wiccim.
All should recognize the universal truth of John 8:32, "and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (American Standard Version; ASV).
Matthew 23:34-39 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blook shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blook of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (American Standard Version; ASV)
This group of scriptures brings out how true followers of Jesus (Yeshua) would be persecuted and given a hard time as they are disliked by those belonging to this system of things who may claim that Almighty God (YHWH) is their god in keeping with Exodus 20:3, the First Commandment, ""Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (ASV); but in reality their 'hearts' are far removed from his per Matthew 15:8, "This people honoreth me with their lips; But their heart is far from me." (ASV). Their 'heart' is with the god of this system of things as revealed at 2 Corinthians 4:4, "in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn [upon them]. " (ASV). In fact, the Bible shows at Luke 21:12, that they would, "But before all these things, they shall lay their hands on you, and shall persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, bring you before kings and governors for my name's sake." (ASV); And at John 16:2, "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you shall think that he offereth service unto God." (ASV); And at Acts 5:40, "And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles unto them, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go." (ASV). Just as back there, the believers in false doctrines and myths are many and seek to silence the proclaimers of Biblical Truths today. It has been this way through out recorded history that the true way has been ill spoken of Acts 19:9, "But when 'some were hardened and disobedient, speaking evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus." (ASV); And at Acts 19:23, "And about that time there arose no small stir concerning the Way." (ASV); In reality, some wickedly disposed ones then and now referred to the Way as a cult with its leader Jesus (Yeshua) labeled a false prophet by the mainstream religions of His day.
However, actually the scriptures show his true followers, the ones following what was called the Way in the first century A.D. would be few in number. Now let's us consider a few scriptures that make this clear. First let's consider both Luke 13:24 and Matthew 7:13-14, it is in both of these that the road followed by true believers would be narrow and cramped, Luke 13:24, "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." (Authorized King James Bible: AV); And Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, abroad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (AV); thereby, clearly showing few would be entering the narrow gate "which leadeth unto life." In reality, it will be difficult for even true Christians to enter as testified to at 1 Peter 4:18, "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear." (AV). In order to enter, we must have the right sort of guide, Luke 1:79, "To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace." (AV). Now, if one picks the wrong group, just because it is popular or the so called 'one to belong to in a community' and not because of Bible Truths, there is an important warning given at Matthew 15:14, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (AV). In fact, being with the wrong group can mean you are NOT having fellowship with the Son of God, Jesus (Yeshua) as testified to at 1 John 1:6, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not [have] the truth." (AV). This danger is made abundantly clear at Luke 12:32 when Jesus (Yeshua) spoke of his true followers as a little flock and not a large one, "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." (AV). Simply stated, his true followers will be relatively few in number which should cause all sincere individuals to question whether mainstream religion with its vast membership is heading for the narrow gate!
Therefore, it is imperative that true Christians give heed to the admonition given at Titus 2:1, ""But speak thou the things which befit the sound doctrine:" (ASV); and be like the Beroeans, Acts 17:11, "Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, examining the scriptures daily, whether these things were so." (ASV); and avoid false doctrines and myths such as the Duality, the Trinity, and the Mother of God who always existed and never had a mother, and other God (YHWH) dishonoring fables, the products of mankind under the influence of the god of this system of things.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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starjade
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Posts: 60
(8/24/04 7:34 pm)
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Re: Do Christians think Jesus is a prophet.
Quote:
Thankyou Soul Kurri. I did not see that Quote box I shall look for it. I did write out in my own HTML the quotes for the boxes but after I posted it erased itself. So I had to improvise. Fortunately I write things out in word and so I still had that data.
  
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starjade
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(8/24/04 8:14 pm)
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Re: Do Christians think Jesus is a prophet.
Quote:
Iris you said: One poster wrote, <<"Curiously the Muslims Prophet Muhammad also believed in Jesus and 11 chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being that Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be. And as a Christian you are pointing out to us that the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be, is that very Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.">>. The fact is there is nothing in reality nor in grammer that would perclude Jesus (Yeshua) from both being the prophet and the Son of God (YHWH). In fact quite the contrary, his life force being born as a human would clearly make inevitable that he would be both as he truly was.
Starjade says: That was me. It is true Muhammad has claimed that he is that prophet that the Living God promised Moses he would raise up. It is claimed that Moses and Isaiah had been writing about muhammad and Muhammad had said that the Angel Gabriel appeared to him and told Muhammad that he alone was that Prophet from God. this is the Islamic claim.
That is why i asked you are you sure that jesus has claimed himself to be that prophet that god promised Moses he would raise up. I know the scripture you have written to claim Jesus as being that prophet but well one must be sure. Is it a fact them that all Christians on earth believe Jesus is that long awaited Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
As you can see Muslims have said that this cannot be true that Jesus only claimed that he was the son of God. Muslims are led to believe that to be a fact. Even though New Testament Biblical text does say different.
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So can you as a Christian say that all christians believe Jesus to be that prophet. I say this so that any muslim listening would know that is the Christian claim. And that it is not unique to just a few Christians but in fact that is what all Christians are taught.
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (American Standard Version; ASV)
Starjade says: Hey Jerusalem if you want to stone me then try some Nepalise i get well stoned off that.  tsk tsk tsk. It is a terrible thing to go throwing stones at Gods prophets.
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""Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Well then if that is so be sure that Starjade will rute them out and expose them as being false Gods and i know we are not allowed to follow false prophets either as God does not like that idea also. So false prophet worshippers beware for the hand of God could come upon you and strike you down. 
I have read the claims of Muhammad and also been taught those claims and he insists that the Angel Gabriel appeared to him and said to Muhammad that he alone is that Prophet that god promised Moses he would raise up. Muslims all over the world are led to believe that claim of Muhammads.
Is it possible for both Jesus and Muhammad to be that very same Prophet. How long since the appearance of Jesus on earth to the appearance of Muhammad here on earth. Maybe Muhammad is the reincarnation of Jesus is that concievable. There would have to be an explanation as to how Jesus claimed to be that prophet and to how Muhammad came to claim that he was that prophet.
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And what about this Angel gabriel. This Angel is claimed to have appeared to confirm the birth of Jesus. Who as you have pointed out claimed in later life that he was that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
Well Muhammad has said that he has met this Angel Gabriel and that this Angel gabriel has told Muhammad that he is that prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
I mean that is an Angel from God isnt it telling two different people that they are that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
It seems that Muhammad has made claims that almost match the Christian claims about jesus. I wonder what a Muslim has to say about that unusual fact of religious history. It is even weirder in that Muhammad himself believed in jesus and 11 chapter of the Koran do glorify Jesus as being the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be. without any doubt. So the Koran and Muhammad both authenticate the belief that jesus is the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be.
I wonder if the followers of islam have an explanation for that.
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Karaite
Posts: 117
(8/24/04 8:24 pm)
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Re: Do Christians think Jesus is a prophet.
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Starjade says: I know the question was not asked of me but as I was here I thought I would bung in my 3 penneth. I believe that Muslims are taught this at an early age by their teachers. Its called misdirection in certain circles. (its only a theory of mine)
The reason I asked the question was to see if he/she would actually give it a thought, and realize that there is no reason for that particular statement to make any sense.
It is like their argument that says that God cannot have a son. There is no reason why this could not be, there is nothing intrinsic to God that would make having a son incompatible with Him.
Now, I know that sometimes we can just see that something is not logical, or just does not fit, but certainly this is not so. The concept of creation (and pro-creation) is not something contradictory to the nature of God, for He is the creator itself.
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Starjade says: Mmm point taken, does this mean that you are a Christian and if that is true as a Christian would you say that jesus is a Prophet and do you then believe as all Christians do that Jesus is that prophet that god promised Moses he would raise up.
Yea, I am.
And there is no question as to whether or not Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophetic side of that promise. However, the actual passage in Deuteronomy is more directly dealing with the simple promise of 'prophets' who would serve as intermediaries (mediators) between God and Israel. In particular, it was speaking of the election of Joshua (Yehoshua) the son of Nun, as he was the one who was to replace Moses, and he was the one who would deliver Israel into the Promise Land. Numbers 27 has the story of Joshua's election, where Moses asked God to appoint someone to take his place in the camp, and God appointed Joshua, and consecrated him.
There are other sections which deal with the story, as well, and I have written extensively on this subject in two separate articles. (See A Prophet From Among You and Deuteronomy 18 & The Prophets.)
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amarsanghera 
Maverick
Posts: 1718
(8/24/04 8:31 pm)
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Re: Do Christians think Jesus is a prophet.
God cannot have a SON
period.....now explanation
this leads to two things..God is a Guy.....else he would have developed some ways which HE has so far hidden from lesbians to produce children.
as a deduction from first logic ...God is discriminatory....and sexist....coz why not a daughter.........???????
Christianity is so against Women...
it is a sexist religion.
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'So death is having all these tries at me, is he? Let him, then! I had a try at him a long while ago myself.' 'When was this?' you'll say. Before I was born. Death is just not being. What that is like I know already. It will be the same after me as it was before me.
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starjade
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Posts: 63
(8/24/04 8:59 pm)
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Re: Do Christians think Jesus is a prophet.
Quote:
Karaite you said:
It is like their argument that says that God cannot have a son. There is no reason why this could not be, there is nothing intrinsic to God that would make having a son incompatible with Him.
Starjade says: Well I know nobody will believe me but I am a son of the Living God. But my birth came about by natural or rather supernatural means. So I know that the Living God can give birth to Prophets. As the Living God has already given birth to me. But it is not something I can talk about as it would make me sound like a loony. But I can explain that Journey and what consequences that Journey will have for this planet. Read of how God did give birth to me in Starjades Journey beyond the Grave. so you understand. It is not what you think.
www.oocities.org/end_of_...terone.htm
I believe if anyone is born unto the Living God then they would have to make that very same Journey. My birth is very different from the birth that is acclaimed to jesus. So I doubt that re birth story as to me it does not ring true.
Quote:
Karaite you said:
Now, I know that sometimes we can just see that something is not logical, or just does not fit, but certainly this is not so. The concept of creation (and pro-creation) is not something contradictory to the nature of God, for He is the creator itself.
Starjade says: yes I agree I say also that the Living God gave birth to many things but that is not the way the birth of Jesus is acclaimed. God creates many things but Christians claim Jesus to be Holy some even claim that Jesus is their God and that shows how such proclamations can get out of hand. Especially if that claim can be proven to be untrue.
Starjade Quote: Mmm point taken, does this mean that you are a Christian and if that is true as a Christian would you say that jesus is a Prophet and do you then believe as all Christians do that Jesus is that prophet that god promised Moses he would raise up.
Quote:
Karaite you said:
Yea, I am. And there is no question as to whether or not Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophetic side of that promise. However, the actual passage in Deuteronomy is more directly dealing with the simple promise of 'prophets' who would serve as intermediaries (mediators) between God and Israel. In particular, it was speaking of the election of Joshua (Yehoshua) the son of Nun, as he was the one who was to replace Moses, and he was the one who would deliver Israel into the Promise Land. Numbers 27 has the story of Joshua's election, where Moses asked God to appoint someone to take his place in the camp, and God appointed Joshua, and consecrated him.
Starjade says: The Muslims claim that Muhammad is the one who fulfilled the prophecy made by the Living God to Moses. They swear upon that. And as for the one who was to replace Moses according to the Living God, he said that the jews could set kings over themselves but the only one who could follow Moses is that specific prophet that the Living God said he would raise up. That prophet would gather up all the jews from the four corners of the Globe and lead them all to a new promised land. This Exodus was supposed to have occurred nearer to the end of Times when an apocalypse would occur and just as it was in the days of Noah there would be an extinction of the species. That is why that prophet God promised Moses he would raise up is the Saviour. ( I am not making any reference to Jesus here) I am talking only of the Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
After all let us not forget that Jesus is not the only one to claim that he is that prophet. Muhammad also has claimed that he is that prophet and has said the Angel Gabriel has told hims so. There are of course others who claim to be that prophet so Jesus and Muhammad are not alone in their claims are they.
Quote:
Karaite you said:
There are other sections which deal with the story, as well, and I have written extensively on this subject in two separate articles. (See A Prophet From Among You and Deuteronomy 18 & The Prophets.)
Starjade says: I shall read what you have said before I comment as the subject is of interest to me. And since 1995 I also have spoken extensively on that very subject also. So much so I almost became famous.
Edited by: starjade at: 8/24/04 9:03 pm
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starjade
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Posts: 64
(8/24/04 9:10 pm)
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Re: Do Christians think Jesus is a prophet.
Quote:
amarsanghera you say: God cannot have a SON period.....now explanation this leads to two things..God is a Guy.....else he would have developed some ways which HE has so far hidden from lesbians to produce children.
Starjade says: The living God is circular in shape and white in colour. The Living White sphere is neither male or female but like an Amoeba is both.
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amarsanghera you say: as a deduction from first logic ...God is discriminatory....and sexist....coz why not a daughter.........??????? Christianity is so against Women...it is a sexist religion.
Starjade says: so if war broke out you would send the wife or girlfriend into battle whiles you stayed at home and watched the kids. Never send a woman to do a Mans Job. Besides God said he would raise up a prophet not a Prophetess. And there is only one Prophet in the whole of eternity that could get that Job done. And that Prophet is a Lord King a King of Kings. And he just happens to be a male.
Now the Christians they think it is Jesus and the Muslims they think it is Muhammad. But what we should consider is who it is that the Living God thinks it is. After all the Living God knows more than we do and also knows exactly who that specific Prophet is. Clues were left and many signs in the Heavens have been Prophesied would appear when that very specific prophet will appear.
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Now the question is do either Muhammad or Jesus fit all the evidence and clues and prophecies that are said to occur when thatb specific prophet arrived. After all think of this conflict right here. We have Muslims and Christians both saying that their prophets are that prophet. And they both use the Angel gabriel to authenticate their claims. But who should we believe. ? Now that is the Question.
Edited by: starjade at: 8/24/04 9:22 pm
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iris89
Posts: 164
(8/24/04 9:36 pm)
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Jesus (Yeshua) Is The Prophet Moses Spoke Of, Here is Proof:
Hi Everyone:
Starjade said, <<"Starjade says: The Muslims claim that Muhammad is the one who fulfilled the prophecy made by the Living God to Moses. They swear upon that. And as for the one who was to replace Moses according to the Living God, he said that the jews could set kings over themselves but the only one who could follow Moses is that specific prophet that the Living God said he would raise up. That prophet would gather up all the jews from the four corners of the Globe and lead them all to a new promised land. This Exodus was supposed to have occurred nearer to the end of Times when an apocalypse would occur and just as it was in the days of Noah there would be an extinction of the species. That is why that prophet God promised Moses he would raise up is the Saviour. ( I am not making any reference to Jesus here) I am talking only of the Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
After all let us not forget that Jesus is not the only one to claim that he is that prophet. Muhammad also has claimed that he is that prophet and has said the Angel Gabriel has told hims so. There are of course others who claim to be that prophet so Jesus and Muhammad are not alone in their claims are they. ">>.
Now Starjade is correct, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is without question the prophet that Moses (Mosche) spoke of. He not only claimed that he was this prophet as clearly shown on my post starting this thread right from God's word, the Bible; he fulfilled all the prophecies given by Moses (Mosche) and other prophets in the old testament, approximately 700 in number. Let's look at a few of these as they clearly show by their fulfillment in Jesus (Yeshua) Christ, that Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is clearly the prophet spoken of; but their fulfillment also proves beyond doubt that the Bible is indeed the inspired Word of God (YHWH) written down by over 40 inspired scribes in the words of mankind for him, its author, as follows. The evidence will prove beyond doubt to all reasonable people that Jesus (Yeshua) is indeed this prophet foretold by Moses (Mosche); but also, the Bible is indeed the inspired Word of God (YHWH):
Let's consider if there a way to prove inspiration or, at least, intelligently present evidence for its inspiration? The answer is "Yes!" One of the best ways to prove inspiration is by examining prophecy. There are many religious books in the world that have many good things to say. But only the Bible has fulfilled prophecies--with more fulfillments to come. The Bible has never been wrong in the past, and it won't be wrong in the future. It claims inspiration from God, " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Timothy 3:16 AV). Since God is the creator of all things " Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" (Isaiah 44:24 AV), then He (YHWH) is also the creator of time. It is under His control. Only God, then, would always be right about what is in the future, our future.
Fulfilled prophecy is strong evidence that God is the author of the Bible because when you look at the mathematical odds of prophecy being fulfilled, you quickly see a design, a purpose, and a guiding hand behind the Bible. If just one prophecy failed, then we would know that God is not the true God, because the creator of all things, which includes time, would not be wrong about predicting the future. " When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." (Deuteronomy 18:22 AV). And "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me; 10 declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done; saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure;" (Isaiah 46:9-10 American Standard Version of 1901).
One writer and mathmatician, Peter Stoner has figured out the possibilities of the fulfillment of just eight (8) prophecies happening, let alone 100 having been fulfilled, and had this to say:
The following probabilities are taken from Peter Stoner in Science Speaks (Moody Press, 1963) to show that coincidence is ruled out by the science of probability. Stoner says that by using the modern science of probability in reference to eight prophecies, 'we find that the chance that any man might have lived down to the present time and fulfilled all eight prophecies is 1 in 1017." That would be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. In order to help us comprehend this staggering probability, Stoner illustrates it by supposing that "we take 1017 silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas. They will cover all of the state two feet deep.
"Now mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly, all over the state. Blindfold a man and tell him that he can travel as far as he wishes, but he must pick up one silver dollar and say that this is the right one. What chance would he have of getting the right one? Just the same chance that the prophets would have had of writing these eight prophecies and having them all come true in any one man."
Stoner considers 48 prophecies and says, "we find the chance that any one man fulfilled all 48 prophecies to be 1 in 10157.
The estimated number of electrons in the universe is around 1079. It should be quite evident that Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies by accident." [ excerpt from book Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell.]
EXAMPLES OF A FEW OF THE PROPHECIES FULFILLED IN JESUS (YESHUA OR YHWH SAVES):
PROPHECY FULFILLED WHEN JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED
[ 1. Betrayed by a friend - Psalms 41:9 - John 13:18-27 - 460 BCE ]]
[ 2. Thirty (30) of silver thrown in Temple - Zechariah 11:13 - Matthew 27:3-5 - 518 BCE ]
[ 3. Betrayed for thirty (30) pieces of silver - Zechariah 11:12 - Matthew 26:14-15 - 518 BCE ]
[ 4. Potters field bought for thirty (30) pieces of silver&Zechariah 11:13 - Matthew 27:6-10 - 518 BCE ]
[ 5. Forsaken by His disciples - Zechariah 13:7 - Mark 14:27-50 - 518 BCE ]
[ 6. Falsely accused by false witnesses - Psalms 35:11-21 - Matthew 26:59-61 - 460 BCE ]
[ 7. Remained silent before accusers - Isaiah 53:7 - Matthew 27:12-14 - 732 BCE ]
[ 8. Was wounded and bruised - Isaiah 53:4-6 - 1 Peter 2:21-25 - 732 BCE ]
[ 9. Spit upon and beaten - Isaiah 50:6 - Matthew 26:67-68 - 732 BCE ]
[ 10. Was mocked - Psalms 22:6- 8 - Matthew 27:27- 31 - 460 BCE ]
[ 11. Fell under the cross (stauros) - Psalms 109:24- 25 - John 19:17, Luke 23:26 - 460 BCE]
[ 12. Had hands and feet pierced - Psalms 22:16 - John 20:24-28 - 460 BCE ]
[ 13. Was crucified with thieves - Isaiah 53:12 - Matthew 27:38 - 732 BCE ]
[ 14. Prayed for His enemies - Isaiah 53:12 - Luke 23:34 - 732 BCE ]
[ 15. His own people rejected him - Isaiah 53:3 - John 19:14-15 - 732 BCE]
[ 16. Was hated without cause - Psalms 69:4 - John 15:25 - 460 BCE ]
[ 17. Friends stood aloof - Psalms 38:11 -Luke 22:54; Luke 23:49 - 460 BCE ]
[ 18. People wag their heads - Psalms 22:7; Psalms 109:25 - Matthew 27:39 - 460 BCE]
[19. He was stared at by people - Psalms 22:17 - Luke 23:35 - 460 BCE]
[ 20. Gamblers divided his clothes - Psalms 22:18 - John 19:23-24 - 460 BCE ]
[ 21. He became very thirsty - Psalms 22:15 - John 19:28 - 460 BCE ]
[ 22. He was given gall & vinegar - Psalms 69:21 - Matthew 27:34 - 460 BCE ]
[ 23. He committed himself to God - Psalms 31:5 - Luke 23:46 - 460 BCE ]
[ 24. His forsaken cry - Psalms 22:1 - Matthew 27:46 - 460 BCE ]
[ 25. His bones not broken - Psalms 34:20 - John 19:32-36 - 460 BCE ]
[ 26. Was buried in tomb of a rich man - Isaiah 53:9 - Matthew 27:56-60 - 732 BCE ]
[ 27. A darkness came over the land - Amos 8:9 - Luke 23:44-45 - 804 BCE ]
[ 28. His heart was broken - Psalms 69:20;Psalms 22:14 - 460 BCE ]
[ 29. His side pierced - Zechariah 12:10 - John 19:34-37 - 648 BCE ]
PROPHECIES FULFILLED CONCERNING HIS BIRTH
[ 1. Born of the seed of women - Genesis 3:15 - Galatians 4:4 - 1513 BCE ]
[ 2. Born to a virgin Hebrew - Isaiah 7:14 - Matthew 1:18-25 - 732 BCE ]
[ 3. Children are killed by Herod - Jeremiah 31:15 - Matthew 2:16-18 - 580 BCE ]
[ 4. Born of the family line of Jesse - Isaiah 11:1 - Luke 3:32 - 732 BCE ]
[ 5. Born into the Tribe of Judah - Genesis 49:10 - Revelations 5:5 - 1513 BCE ]
[ 6. Born in Bethlehem - Micah 5:2 - Matthew 2:1-6 - 717 BCE ]
[ 7. Seed of David - Jeremiah 23:5 - Luke 3:31 - 580 BCE ]
[ 8. Seed of Jacob - Numbers 24:17 - Luke 3:34 - 1473 BCE ]
[ 9. Seed of Isaac - Genesis 21:12 - Luke 3:23-34 - 1513 BCE ]
[ 10. Seed of Abraham - Genesis 22:18 - Matthew 1:1 - 1513 BCE ]
PROPHECIES ON HIS PERSONALITY
[ 1. His zeal for this Father (YHWY) - Psalms 69:9 - John 2:15-17 - 460 BCE ]
[2. His existence before creation - Micah 5:2 - 1 Peter 1:20 - 717 BCE ]
[ 3. He shall be called Lord - Psalms 110:1 - Acts 2:36 - 460 BCE ]
[ 4. Called Immanuel (God with us) - Isaiah 7:14 - Matthew 1:22-23 - 732 BCE ]
[ 5. Anointed by the Spirit (HS) - Isaiah 11:2 - Matthew 3:16-17 - 732 BCE ]
[ 6. He is a Prophet - Deuteronomy 18:18-19 - Acts 3:18-25 - 1473 BCE ]
[ 7. He will be a Priest - Psalms 110:4 - Hebrews 5:5-6 - 460 BCE ]
[ 8. He will be a Judge - Isaiah 33:32 - John 5:22-23 - 732 BCE ]
[ 9. He will be a King - Psalms 2:6 - John 18:33-37 - 460 BCE ]
PROPHECIES CONCERNING HIS PUBLIC MINISTRY
[ 1. Will be preceded by a messenger - Isaiah 40:3 - Matthew 3:1-3 - 732 BCE ]
[ 2. He would perform miracles - Isaiah 35:5-6 - Matthew 9:35 & 11:4 - 732 BCE ]
[ 3. Ministry to begin in Galilee - Isaiah 9:1-2 - Matthew 4:12-17 - 732 BCE ]
[ 4. Would teach with parables - Psalms 78:1-4 - Matthew 13:34-35 - 460 BCE ]
[ 5. He would preach in temple - Malachi 3:1 - Matthew 21:10-12 - 443 BCE ]
[ 6. Enter Jerusalem on a donkey - Zechariah 9:9 - Matthew 21:1-7 - 518 BCE ]
[ 7. Stone of stumbling to Jews - Isaiah 28:16; Psalms 118:22 - 1 Peter 2:6-8 - 732 BCE ]
[ 8. Light to Gentiles - Isaiah 49:6 - Acts 13:46-48 - 732 BCE ]
PROPHECIES CONCERNING HIS RESURRECTION AND ASCENSION
[ 1. Raised from the dead - Psalms 16:8-11 - Acts 2:24-31 - 460 BCE ]
[ 2. Only begotten Son of God (YHWH) - Psalms 2:7 - Acts 13:32-35 - 460 BCE ]
[ 3. Ascended to God (YHWH) - Psalms 68:18 - Ephesians 2:8-10; John 6:26 - 460 BCE ]
[ 4. Seated at the Right Hand of God (YHWH) - Psalms 110.1 - Hebrews 1:3-13 - 460 BCE]
CONCLUSION:
Likewise, we can see from all the prophecies about Jesus (Yeshua) that the Bible truly is inspired and the word of God (YHWH). As brought out by one writer, it would have been mathematically impossible for them to have all been fulfilled without God (YHWH) having given them and maneuvered events to have them fulfilled. Also, it proves the harmony of the Bible throughout, i.e., the New Testament is simply the fulfillment of the Old Testament.
Also, for all those who want to know more about God (YHWH) and see the proof he exist I recommend the reading of the following book:
"A Philosophical, Scientific and Theological Defense for the Notion That a God Exists? by Hal Flemings "
www.amazon.com/exec/obido...rsions-20?
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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starjade
Member
Posts: 66
(8/24/04 9:44 pm)
Reply
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Re: Jesus (Yeshua) Is The Prophet Moses Spoke Of, Here is Pr
Karaite that was a good read. I have not read it all yet as my Time is taxed. but i Have left you a message.
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iris89
Posts: 167
(8/24/04 9:57 pm)
Reply
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Some Desperately Need To Learn The Facts:
Hi Everyone:
One uninformed poster stated, <<"God cannot have a SON">> showing his complete ignorance of fact and reality. Even common sense and reasoning shows this to be nothing but gross error to say God (YHWH) who created all could not have a son, when obviously it would be an easy thing for him to create one. This is exactly what he did.
This poster should go over to the "Bible Commentaries For All To Discuss and Learn Truth From:" [ p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...=451.topic ] and use his own Bible and study along with the commentaries I have posted and start learning about God's (YHWH's) word, the Bible, instead of making comments on that which he knows not. This in keeping with John 8:32.
Also, he should read my post as follows:
DES - TRUE cHRISTIANITY IS ALL ABOUT LOVE:
p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...=358.topic
And;
DES- CIVILIZATION AND THE BIBLE AS A STANDARD
p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...=359.topic
And;
DES - Learn The Real Truth About Our Savior Jesus (Yeshua): see 4 post down on,
p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...=291.topic
And;
DES - True Christianity Is Not Mainstream So Called Christianity:
p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...=360.topic
And;
DES - Learn About The Bible and Bible Canon, The Facts:
p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...=361.topic
And:
DES - Re: The sword of Islam – see my 2 post, Love and Religious Freedom For All:’ approximately 25 & 27 post down on, [page2]
p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...31&stop=60
And;
DES - DOCUMENTARY ON OUR SAVIOR JESUS (Yeshua): [Fourth post down on thread, ‘is Jesus God???’]
p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...=324.topic
And;
DES – Discourse on Baptism
p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...=380.topic
And;
DES – The Explanation, Counterfeit Vs. Genuine Christians!, [3 post down on the True Christianity is all about love thread]
p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...=358.topic
And;
DES – Salvation and Answers to Questions, [11 post down on the Civilization and the Bible as a standard. Thread
p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...=359.topic
And;
DES - The Deity of Christ: [9 post down on the AN EXPLANATION OF THE TRUTH OF CHRIST VS. THE ANTICHRIST thread]
p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoi...=389.topic
And;
This thread that we are on, the starting post of mine.
And this poster needs to read the book I recommended in my last post before this one.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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The Armchair Analyst
Null and Void
Posts: 4934
(8/24/04 10:02 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: Some Desperately Need To Learn The Facts:
Quote:
One uninformed poster stated, <<"God cannot have a SON">> showing his complete ignorance of fact and reality.
You mean the divine whatsisname actually has a penis and a pair of testicles? That is a mighty good accomplishment for a guy who don't even exist! 
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starjade
Member
Posts: 68
(8/24/04 10:10 pm)
Reply
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Christians world wide believe Jesus is that prophet.
Hello again iris:
Quote:
Starjade said, <<"Starjade says: The Muslims claim that Muhammad is the one who fulfilled the prophecy made by the Living God to Moses. They swear upon that. And as for the one who was to replace Moses according to the Living God, he said that the jews could set kings over themselves but the only one who could follow Moses is that specific prophet that the Living God said he would raise up. That prophet would gather up all the jews from the four corners of the Globe and lead them all to a new promised land.
This Exodus was supposed to have occurred nearer to the end of Times when an apocalypse would occur and just as it was in the days of Noah there would be an extinction of the species. That is why that prophet God promised Moses he would raise up is the Saviour. ( I am not making any reference to Jesus here) I am talking only of the Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
Quote:
After all let us not forget that Jesus is not the only one to claim that he is that prophet. Muhammad also has claimed that he is that prophet and has said the Angel Gabriel has told him so. There are of course others who claim to be that prophet so Jesus and Muhammad are not alone in their claims are they. ">>.
Quote:
Now Starjade is correct, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is without question the prophet that Moses (Mosche) spoke of.
Starjade says: Well in order to clarify. I am not saying that jesus or Muhammad is that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. I was asking you if this was the belief of all Christians world wide. because Muslims do not realise that jesus has proclaimed himself to be that very specific prophet. Or that all Christians throughout the world believe that jesus is that very Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
Even here in this thread you have seen the muslims disbelief that jesus has proclaimed that he is that prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. I thought it best to clarify the point. I was speaking only about Christians and Muslims beliefs world wide.
Edited by: starjade at: 8/24/04 10:13 pm
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Re: Discourse on Moses Foretold the Coming of Jesus (Yeshua)
Do Christians think Jesus is a prophet. 
