| OO7 Quote SFX: Apa dah jadi sekarang , is that we got rid of the troublemakers in the Dayak cause. Betul Magang ???? Enti nuan enggau Bala nuan ukai urang who brought the parangs and dukus to PBDS to kill it, then stop lying to the Dayak nation, punggal......Why did you guys rock the boat so much ???? The moral of story for Tajem dan mereka-mereka yang sama kepala dengan dia is don't only imagine how they can boot someone out of the boat; imagine how they can be booted out... If only Tajem had at least half that wisdom, he would not want to risk offending the others with his autocracy management style. He cannot sack party members while his constitutional power in the PBDS (as a president by default, not elected through TDC) was in fact LIMITED and restricted to 'office maintenance' with primary duty is to prepare the house for the forthcoming TDC. He can delay the TDC, and that's all about his authority within the party. Bedau nyadi president yang sah melalui TDC pun udah ka munuh bala Dayak??? Like a dictator, Tajem sacked those who oppose him !!! Teruk betul Iban seekor ni !!! The only sacking yang betul is the one taken against Josephine Mawat -- she contested against a BN candidate in Lubok Antu Parliamentary Election. We rock the boat??? Hey, its all depends on from whose point of view you see the situation OK, Tajem or Masing. The way I see it, Masing baru setakat gertak Tajem to honour the Miri Formula alu lah Si-Tajem angkat kapak ka muru semua orang keluar rumah. Hitler ke ??? Quote SFX: ......when it was you guys who did not hesitate to threaten the grassroots, the delegates, the supreme council, the leadership to claw your way to the top ... Threatening grassroots??? Eh I think you salah coordinate lah. Check balik Tajem punya briefcase, sure you can find over dozens of show-cause letters to party members in there, not to mention those which setakat draft. Quote SFX: Let me put it to you, that the interest of the Dayak is not part of your agenda in PRS, it never was for your group. The real governor of PRS now is not your Masing or your Sng Chee Hwa's or your Larry Sng's and neither your Richard Wil's , the real ruler in your Party is Willfred Nissom, undisputed king of PRS......Whatever Nissom issues to the PRS leadership, they will follow, sing and dance to his tune. So Nissom is the kind of guy the entire Dayak Nation should put their fatith on ???? I say you're better off supporting Linggi or Jabu, then an ensemble of rabble rousers like Sng and Masing, and if you're savvy 007, there might be an opening just for you in PBB Oh please..... this argument has gone out of hands, branching out to Pol Sec Wilfred Nissom pulak, and God knows siapa agik akan masuk list bala perosak PBDS. Quote SFX: If Masing didn't go on a rampage, then we would have never reached this situation,... NOPE! If Tajem didn't be so arrogant it would have been a different ending for PBDS. What is so complicated, so difficult about honouring the Miri Formula ??? Afterall Tajem will still be the president, with Masing the deputy. That's what we can call COMPROMISE !!! Look the first time PBDS was deregistered it was because Masing went on 'rampage' as you put it. The two factions couldn't resolve the leadership crisis on their own. The second deregistration was the fatal one for PBDS.... just because of one small reason ! Because arrogant Tajem refused to hold the TDC within stipulated time as directed by the ROS, giving the ROS no choice but to send PBDS to the gallows. Tajem, with all the constitutional power bestowed upon him by the PBDS constitution, can save the party.... but he choose not to. Now the big question, WHO KILLS PBDS ? Masing is bad, because problems in the party started from him. Tajem is evil, because he didn't do anything to stop ROS from taking away PBDS from the Dayak dan mereka-mereka yang sama semangat dengan nya. Now how would you feel if a father was just standing there as the bad boys were raping his daughter when the little thing he could have done to stop them was to open the door so that his relatives outside can come to her rescue !!!! Tajem didn't open the door... because it was Masing and Sng outside the door !!! SAD " The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for the good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke.... such phrase is still relevant these days, SFX, and in the case of Tajem and PBDS your 'good man' did nothing. |
| Selene Hello James and SFX, Unfortunately I have not been able to make my full reply to all your recent posts, no doubt I will and thank you very much for all the information. SFX, as I had said in my last post, the jury is still out there and that I may have jumped into conclusion, as I had not heard the full facts/arguments and evidences from all sides. No doubt further information from you will shed more light on the matter. Both contributions are very much appreciated by all in rp.com, I would ignore 'explorer' as if he / she is serious about discussing this matter with us or is serious about his passion and dreams for us dayaks, then no doubt he would change his approach and we will, without hesitation, pay him the attention he deserved. Before I write further can the two of you answer the following questions: 1. Who actually brought PBDS into the coalition? ( whose idea was it actually?)... 2. Had Tajem always easy with that idea? 3. Did he get on well with the CM and his people or any other prominent leaders from other parties in the coalition? 4. How old is Masing?...what is his profession/education?what tribal group?.. 4. How did the Sngs ever come to be in PBDS?...what were their roles? 5. Who is Salang and what was his role ( officially ) within the party hierachy? 6. How many seats in the DUN are hold ( or were held ) by PBDS? 7. How many minister ( senior or junior ) , state or federal, were PBDS people?. 8. Who benefit most from the demise of PBDS? 9. Which part of the state the party support mainly came from? 10. For SFX, why didn't Tajem hold the meeting when ordered by the ROS, as stated by James? 11. For SFX, what was wrong with The MIRI FORMULA ( assuming for the moment it did exist ) that Tajem faction felt unable to accept it as compromise? 12. For you James, why did Masing felt he deserved a position as outlined in the MIRI FORMULA?...don't ask me why not, in the case, in view of the consequence of sticking with the demand, he and his supporters must be able to justify why he should.. 12. What is masing doing now?..his position in the governement, PRS or any other party.. I can ask many more questions, but if you both can give me the information ( please your understanding of the matter, be factual if possible, opinions are find as long as they are yours or your fellow supporters's and the leaders of your factions as you are aware of, but not that of your opponent or their supporters) for the above, that will suffice for the moment and once I have your replies, I will come back with full reply tonite. Thank you p/s: Unggal Simunjan, sorry Tam, jako Iban aku enda tentu manah deh, au lagi aku nguji malas topik tu ngena jako Iban, enti ulih. Uka ga senang deka nerang politik negna jako kitai. baka jako Melayu, apu Tam lama aku enda nyebut selaka jako sida nya...enggai aku negmalu kediri deh...haha |
| Unggal Simunjan Hai Len, Nama rita? Well rindu amai aku maca persoalan-persoalan politik tik dituju nuan dalam forum tuk. Semakin panjai lembar, semakin menarik mega isu tuk. Kui kui kui. Ulih aku tumpang jawab soalan mimit? SFX enggau James, enti jawapan aku salah anang nganu aku. Aku pun kak mencuba berkongsi pendapat dalam isu tuk. kui kui. Seduai anggaplah aku sebagai 'budak hingusan' tik baru kak join randau. 1. Who actually brought PBDS into the coalition? ( whose idea was it actually?)... ---> Bagi aku, Datuk Amar Leo Moggie. Tindakan iya selaku 'pengadil' keluar padang sebedau game tamat menyebabkan bermulanya perang dalam PBDS. 2. Had Tajem always easy with that idea? ---> nadai komen 3. Did he get on well with the CM and his people or any other prominent leaders from other parties in the coalition? ---> nadai komen 4. How old is Masing?...what is his profession/education?what tribal group?.. ---> Masing around 50 plus in think. Iya berkelulusan PHD dari salah sebuah universiti bak err..New Zealand asai aku. 4. How did the Sngs ever come to be in PBDS?...what were their roles? --> asal Sng adalah dari SUPP. Berhijrah masuk PBDS (around 1983 atau 1984) after keahlian dibuka kepada Bukan Dayak. 5. Who is Salang and what was his role ( officially ) within the party hierachy? --> Salang ialah Timbalan Menteri Luar Negeri merangkap MP Julau. Role dalam party ialah Deputy Presiden PBDS (after TDC 2000). 6. How many seats in the DUN are hold ( or were held ) by PBDS? -----> emm, asai aku 9 DUN sit. 7. How many minister ( senior or junior ) , state or federal, were PBDS people?. --> 5 iko. Betul ke ni? 8. Who benefit most from the demise of PBDS? --> nama reti? 9. Which part of the state the party support mainly came from? --> tanya Bond enggau SFX 10. For SFX, why didn't Tajem hold the meeting when ordered by the ROS, as stated by James? --->no komen 11. For SFX, what was wrong with The MIRI FORMULA ( assuming for the moment it did exist ) that Tajem faction felt unable to accept it as compromise? --> no komen 12. For you James, why did Masing felt he deserved a position as outlined in the MIRI FORMULA?...don't ask me why not, in the case, in view of the consequence of sticking with the demand, he and his supporters must be able to justify why he should..---> no komen 12. What is masing doing now?..his position in the governement, PRS or any other party.. ---> Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah. Presiden kepada PRS. |
| polysilsesquioxane Tabi semua, Suba bisi aku enggau orang mimit berandau ke pengawa politik kitai Iban ba RR. Tang nyau leju, laban kitai Iban endang kering batang rekong. Siti aja saut aku pasal didegistration of PBDS.....iya nya kitai Iban bangat kelalu kering batang rekong. Enggai ninga utai ko pangan diri. Idea orang bukai salah magang......orang bukai salah magang......kitai Iban di peda aku paling pandai ngiga penyalah orang bukai....tang enda nemu diri empu ke salah. So bagi aku kitai Iban meh ti salah ngasoh parti PBDS dideregister. Nya aja buah penemu aku wai..... btw....for selene, sfx & 007 thanks for a very good discussion. bagi aku....semina ka ngemaju kediri empu dulu laban ke agi kalat-kalat ba pengidup. |
| OO7 SFX, I truly appreciate our discussion or rather debate in here especially since it concerns PBDS, a matter close to our heart since 20 years ago. But while in the process of disseminating information and thoughts to the audience here, I hope you can agree with me that the inclusion of 'theory' about outsiders having played the dayaks to the extent that they lost their political party is somewhat very disturbing, at least to me. I hope you can refrain from developing your deduction on that matter for that would only lead us to a dead end or continue to keep us in the dark while we were trying to come up with something enlightening about this PBDS issue at the end of the day. Such 'theory' is unhealthy, I'm afraid. For one thing, the masses can get even more confused to the point that some of them might as well subcribe to the idea that such mischief had actually taken place. For another thing, such discussion of 'theory'could put this forum site at risk of being earmarked by 'the others' as another place to watch out for where it breeds 'oppositions', where subversive confounded unconfirmed ideas were heavily discussed and developed. We got to understand this forum site is privately-owned, initiated by a group of individuals with the TR is only self-taught in the field of IT. We don't have full-time staff here with exceptional skills like anti-hacker Miko Hypponen who can be specifically tasked to protect this site from unauthorised intrusion from 'the others'. We both know this site is getting very popular among domestic surfers lately, thanks to you and Selene. No thanks to Camels, he's only a 'passenger'. About your theory, I can't say it's a flat out lie. There could be some truth in it, but right now, at this level, it remains as counter-productive theory. One day, the intelligent ones from among us might be able to come up with solid proof and then we'll discuss and study the new findings as deligiently as we had done it with this PBDS topic. In the meantime, let's not discuss about the 'intangible' stuff. I have little fear about being profiled, exposed or sort of things like that. My major concern is how such theory can poison the mind of the otherwise innocent Dayak. Thanks in advance for your cooperation. |
| Selene Dear James, Thank you for that, no doubt the background information are very helpful. Although I have yet to reply fully, rest assure I am not abandoning this discussion. We have only just begun. I can't help but noticing James that despite giving me detailed information about the party hierachy, there are questions you have skipped over. Any chance of answering them for me eh?...You see my questions are for a purpose and I believe the matter can see the light of day, for all of us to judge clearly and objectively, if both you and SFX can reply to my queries fully. So James, can you explain to us why Masing felt he should stick to the so-called The MIRI FORMULA?...by asking this question I am not suggesting he should not have, only we all deserve to know why he felt so strongly about this. For all we know he may have been right to expect to be so, but until someone can explain his reason to us, it will be very difficult for us to understand his actions. After all and as you have openly admitted in one of your post, this was the catalyst to the problem, the rope that fisrt spunned the ' wheel of doom' in motion. Further to that can you also give your honest and frank opinions ( perhaps the kind of opinions some leaders in the party may also hold at one time?) as to the question 1,2,3 and 8. Just an honest observation of what you believe happened should suffice/enough. I look forward to hear further from you, I apologise for keep on asking for more information, but if you hope to have a proper and objective post event analysis of the matter, then full disclosure of information is required. Otherise half information is more dangerous than the full information, because if people do not get the whole information, they will have to use conjecture to try to figure out what happened, and you know the danger of speculation and conjecture, whole hell break lose. I am sure handle carefully, sensitive information will not be dangerous, and I am sure you and SFx have enough discretion to know how to do that. As for the theory, well everyone is entitled to put his/er opinion, but if it is a flawed argument, as you clearly believe, then it will be proven so. However what is better way to show it is without basis than testing it, and show to everyone that it is flawed once and for all. I do not think discussing a possiblity, that is what it represent at this moment in time, is itself amount to poisoning the people mind. People have heard about this speculation long before it reached rp.com. Not discussing it actually will make the matter worse, as I alreday said, if you try to hide something, even though it was innocent, people mind will work overtime and will make their own conclusion to the fact that logically if they are hiding it, it must be true. If you are right about there was never been such a plot, then show them once and for all they were wrong. Where best to do that then a healthy open forum like this?...I don't have any motive for having this discussing other then my wish to know the truth of what happened and I am sure mojority of rp.com members are objective and matured enough to judge the matter themselves. Let them decide, the time to think " we know best" had gone. After all what is the point of all the education we all have?.. By the way SFX, I have yet to see your reply to my questions, I am really looking forward to read them. Hopefully it is soon, understand you are a busy person, but everyone is holding their breath!...( honest... )haha |
| SFX 1. Who actually brought PBDS into the coalition? ( whose idea was it actually?) You have not been specific on this question. To which coalition are you referring ?? I may have some idea what you're trying to ask. In 1987 and in 1991, both elections produced a mixed bag of results for the then Parti Bangsa Dayak Sarawak. Out of a total of some 15-16 seats in the DUN for PBDS (a major achievement by any Party of the time) in 1987, 8 MPs or ADUN crossed over the floor of the House to join PBB. The Heads of this grouping was Gramong Juna (now a demoted minister in PBB) and a then Edward Jeli (a colleague of Sidi and various others, notably Celestine Ujang). To the credit of the 3 top Dayak Leaders in PBDS at the time (Moggie the decoy federal rep, Tajem the actual Leader, and Masing the protege Minister) remained united in the face of fierce State Opposition, and consolidated PBDS as a vehicle for Dayak aspirations. Daniel Tajem, however remained a thorn on Pehin's side at about this time, and there was some very real opposition to the then government's legislation on Land, NCR and various other policies. (Which, inevitably, many would agre that a healthy democracy requires a slick opposition) 2. Had Tajem always easy with that idea? Which idea ??? the one whereby some form of political arrangement was made between the triumvirate in PBDS with Abdul Taib Mahmud provided that he allowed PBDS entry into the State BN ?? Are you referring to that arrangement, the so called dunstan Endawie option ??? (Sidi Munan would know this, no doubt he had something to do with it) I would say this was the beginning of the end for PBDS as a political party at the time. Melanau sources close to ATM at the time confirmed their hostility to their new partners, and made plans to find some way to keep the PBDS leadership emasculated and in line with their gov't policies. The arrangement was a simple one. Leo Moggie would remain the Dayak rep in Kuala Lumpur, James Masing took up the leadership reins of PBDS in Sarawak whilst given a position in Taib's cabinet, and Daniel Tajem, the noble leader would be relegated to a overseas posting abroad, say, somewhere insignificant, to keep out of Tok Uban's hair (well ATM had some interesting hairstyles, just had to make sure Daniel wasn''t there to ruffle it ). The die was cast by then, and the Dayak leadership paved their way to a certain self destruction (with a little bit of help from our White Hair), and the loyal followers like me and 007, well....., we followed. In private, there was some very nasty rumours doing the rounds. The spark that eventually ignited the gunpowder , was the Land Code amendment. (Bond will painfully remember this one) . Let me explain this rather briefly, the Land Code amendment set out a number of provisions, which promised to recognise Native Customary Rights claims (the bedrock of PBDS). Now, as we all know, the government policy on NCR is far from perfect, however the amendments introduced a set of processes which, invariably, required all civil servants in Land & Survey to be honest, careful, and thorough with the implementation of this legislation. Needless to say, for all the praise of the SCS in Malaysia, they too are human, and there was some spectacular failings (which embarrassed James Masing, a number of high flying senior civil servants, and the Federal Government). To summarise, rumours fervently placed the blame on James Masing, but as Minister at the time, he was tasked to stand up for Dayak rights, and I can see why he remains bitter, however Minister's are there to take the blame and get the sack. That's politics. 3. Did he get on well with the CM and his people or any other prominent leaders from other parties in the coalition? Yes and No. Daniel Tajem has nobility in him. He will remain adamant in the face of issues which would hurt his people, the Dayaks. And he was astute enough on how to "tip the balance" with this member of the Mahmud family. Daniel Tajem, remains to this day an old fashion, old school Iban politician, ruthless, brave, cunning and savvy enough to know when his people mattered. The rest could not measure up. Leo Moggie in comparison was a "people person" and Mahathir loved his charm. 4. How old is Masing?...what is his profession/education?what tribal group?.. James is 55 years old. He hails from the Balleh region of Sarawak, to this day 100% Iban population of 8,000 -10,000, and like Daniel Tajem, he has a higher education, but is not in, shall we say, in the "proffession". At this stage , let me point out that the PBDS leadership has a rich pool of Dayak and Chinese graduates to pick from. A lot of them are Barristers, some Solicitors and a fair smattering of strategists plus politcal experts. 4. How did the Sngs ever come to be in PBDS?...what were their roles? Unngal Simunjan has answered this. 5. Who is Salang and what was his role ( officially ) within the party hierachy? Joseph Salang a/k Gandum is a promising Iban politician of some note. The highest calibre Iban politician we have around to this day. He is the leader of the "partyless 5" and tied with him is the guaranteed support of some 130,00 Dayak members. Any political leader worth his salt in Sarawak is frantically negotiating with this man to bring him and his gang into their party, reasons as follows: 1. Joining PBB is seen as lucrative on all sides, except for the Sarawak Malays (Tuan Julaihi, r u listening ???). Now we all know, that sometime in 1998, the 2 malay leaders in Sarawak, Abang Jo and Adenan Satem, openly waged conflict with one another in PBB. Leonard Linggi played out his role extremely well in that one, but sadly for them, ATM was displeased at that embarrasing episode, its all hush hush, but officially the Sarawak MalaysS do not want 100,000 Ibans joining their boat, as it will increase the Dayak influence in PBB by threefold, at the very least. 2. Joining any other entity is just as fruitful, except PBB is tightly run battleship, and fortune favours the brave. 6. How many seats in the DUN are hold ( or were held ) by PBDS? This was answered by Unggal Simunjan 7. How many minister ( senior or junior ) , state or federal, were PBDS people?. As follows, you will find Unggals answers useful, however if you wish corroborate his info, may I suggest you check with the SARAWAK DUN website. Thanks 8. Who benefit most from the demise of PBDS? Abdul Taib Mahmud. Pehin of Sarawak, and the nightmare UMNO has most nights. Your question did not ask why, so I am not going to explain. 9. Which part of the state the party support mainly came from? Central and Southern Sarawak, the Rejang Ibans and the fierce Batang Lupar Ibans., together with a sprinkling of high calibre Kayan allies from Belaga. 10. For SFX, why didn't Tajem hold the meeting when ordered by the ROS, as stated by James? Which meeting are you referring to ??? A second TDC ??? Please be specific, Selene. 11. For SFX, what was wrong with The MIRI FORMULA ( assuming for the moment it did exist ) that Tajem faction felt unable to accept it as compromise? I am not going to speculate on third party hearsay. My initial position remains. 12. For you James, why did Masing felt he deserved a position as outlined in the MIRI FORMULA?...don't ask me why not, in the case, in view of the consequence of sticking with the demand, he and his supporters must be able to justify why he should.. James to answer. 12. What is masing doing now?..his position in the governement, PRS or any other party.. Initially Masing sent his protege Dublin on a spoiling raid against remnants of PBDS and the partyless 5. Dublin came back to his master with the tail between his legs and last I heard, the Batang Lupar Ibans (Lingga, Simanggang, Lachau, Saratok, Betong, Batang Ai, Nanga Sumpa, Engkilili and various other districts ) are seriously mad with him,/ (Nadai chan dik nyadi ADUN agi, Dublin) Masing is a Rejang Iban, he does not understand sometimes. |
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