Iris (Freiburg),
Khalid (Toronto),
Franz (Merida, Venezuela).
Orwell
Today: Personal Life Experiences -
Franz - Part IV: 1962 - 1977
(This Chat I dedicate
to my son, Franz Lee, Jr.)
24th October, 2000 (Slightly Corrected Version)
DISCUSSION PERIOD (Continued)
(Extracts)
panta98 has left the room.
CarlzimC: Jerusalem Post?
CarlzimC: Who owns Arabia.com?
Einai2000: Please proceed ... invited Franz. ...
frogmobile: There is never a favorable opinon of Arabs or Palestinans
here.
frogmobile: I don't know probably a wealthy, oil sheik.
CarlzimC: Surprising. There's a large Palestinian Community in Canada?
frogmobile: No very small, about 150 thousand. They are not allowed
to immigrate here.
CarlzimC: I'll save the chat.
frogmobile: nobody wants them.
frogmobile: they are all deemed as terrorists.
frogmobile: and killers
CarlzimC: Surprising. Not in the USA
frogmobile: Not many in the US either
CarlzimC: They are welcome here.
frogmobile: There are millions without a home.
CarlzimC: Khalid, they'll have a home.
frogmobile: I hope so, Carl.
Einai2000: ...to get back to "revolution"....Khalid, what did you learn
from your experiences in Guyana?
frogmobile: That it is not worth it, Iris.
Einai2000: Why not???
frogmobile: The people are not worth the energy to fight for; they
eventually betray and kill you.
CarlzimC: Khalid, behind the scenes.
frogmobile: I have seen it with very close comrades that lost their
lives sadly.
Einai2000: But weren"t they revolutionaries, Khalid? For example, all
the masses, following the speeches of Walter Rodney?
CarlzimC: Negotiations - software technology.
frogmobile: Rodney was not the only one; there were many more, and
what is sad is to see how they
died, and how much they believed in the cause!
CarlzimC: Paul Robeson - exiled and ostracized.
CarlzimC: I knew Paul and was influenced by him. His son, Paul Robeson
Jr., married my cousin.
Einai2000: Khalid in what precisely did they believe?
frogmobile: One thing that struck me at Rodney's funeral was the "silence".
I got an ominious feeling then
that it was over. The people were too bruised and felt that they had
no power because the enemy is
always two steps ahead of them ready to exploit their weakness.
CarlzimC: Khalid, they were thinking of #1.
frogmobile: And remember in a revolutionary movement there are always
so many weaknesses - you can
trust no one.
CarlzimC: They never would have supported his revolution.
Einai2000: And now - with all due respect - do you think they applied
in their "personal life" what they
fought for on a political level? And what could be the reason why they
couldn"t go ahead when the
"leader" died?
CarlzimC: If he lived, would they have supported him?
Einai2000: That's the problem, Khalid - the everlasting question whom
to trust ...
frogmobile: Interesting question Iris. When a leader is killed, in
such a brutal fashion, it sends a chilling
message out there: to back off. For example, it has happened just like
that in the Congo, also in Venezuela.
frogmobile: And in many other places in the world.
CarlzimC: Iris, like Lumumba, Che Guevara and Malcolm X, Rodney was
betrayed by people in his own organization.
frogmobile: The "top" guys around Rodney were genuine and dedicated
people but they were not
"revolutionaries" and had no experience; remember the enemy is always
ahead of you.
CarlzimC: Agreed, Khalid. I'm referring to little guys, the common
folk, the rank and file.
Einai2000: Do you think what has been fought for on a political level
was reflected and manifested also in
daily life, or had "the fight for freedom" nothing to do with
it?
Einai2000: If not, why?
Einai2000: Is it probably more "easy" to fight against something "out
there"?
frogmobile: Iris, in terms of whether they applied what they fought
for in their personal lives, the answer is yes,
but
they suffered a lot. I too, because you live in eternal fear that you will
be caught and get killed
too - remember you have NO POWER.
frogmobile: Their families were all at risk. I put mine in trouble
too, without them knowing it.
CarlzimC: Khalid, also you had a paranoid enemy.
frogmobile: No, Iris, it took guts to stand up and face the blows from
street thugs.You had to have a lot of
conviction.
CarlzimC: Similar to the Communist countries.
Einai2000: I imagine, Khalid.
frogmobile: They were both inter-related on the one hand . Agreed,
Carl.
Einai2000: ...and on the other?
frogmobile: I ran many times from guns and knives. That is why I was
known as "Speedy Gonzalez."
CarlzimC: Were you running from sadists, who used politics as an excuse?
frogmobile: You can't seperate the two from each other, Iris. At least
I can speak for the people who died
and for those that "jumped ship". I can undrestand their reasons too,
why they give up.
Einai2000: Yes, Khalid, of course. I agree.
frogmobile: One needs to understand that Guyanese have always been
politically active, ...
Einai2000: ...please explain to us, Khalid...
frogmobile: ... but they have never suceeded because of oppresion and
poverty.
frogmobile: They have being fighting against colonial rule since the
1930's.
Einai2000: ...invited Franz, he's back online.
CarlzimC: Thanks, Iris. I sent an e-mail to Franz.
.........
panta98 has entered the room.
You have just entered room "panta98 Chat09."
Einai2000:Franz.
Welcome back.
frogmobile:The
people have all been "products", been under British slaver rule. Our very
existence as a people came from murder, kidnap, torure and slavery.
CarlzimC:Hi, Franz.
frogmobile:We
were always taught to "obey law and order".
panta98:Sorry,
I had a power cut, had to reboot! Carl, I received your e-mail.
panta98:]
Also, AOL dilly-dallied to get me back on the server again.
CarlzimC:Khalid, and French
and Dutch oppression?
frogmobile:Yep!
CarlzimC: Devil's Island.
panta98:Anyhow,
where are you? How far did you develop he topic?
frogmobile: My
great grand parents were kidnapped from India and taken to labor for the
British Empire.
panta98: I
follow, entering into the picture ....
frogmobile: We
are a "bruised" people too.
CarlzimC:Yep, Khalid.
CarlzimC:Sometimes,
the dividing line been oppressor and revolutionary is very thin.
frogmobile:Most
of the people in the British Colonial Empire suffered tremendously and
are still feeling the after-effects. Some are calling for financial compensation
but to no avail.
panta98: I'm
listening, ....
frogmobile:Rodney's
book is great to read about Africa's contribution to European development,
to world capitalism, to American globalization.
CarlzimC: Enver Hoxha, premier
of Communist Albania, tried to eliminate thr concept of "3 worlds" in the
UN. He thought the "3rd world" label demeaned the people of Africa, Asia
and Latin America.
frogmobile:Yet!
today we "third world" people are deemed "barbaric", stupid" and "dumb",
because we have nothing else anymore to contribute, other than cheap
physical labor, whose demand is dropping steadily.
CarlzimC:Although Hoxha had
the support of tyhe Albanian Clans (mostly Turkish origin), he failed in
this pursuit.
CarlzimC:Khalid,
Hoxha fought vs. this!
frogmobile:So
many people have suffered from mass exploitation, yet they can't understand
what psychological and physical impact it has had on their ability to fight
back.
frogmobile:Interesting
Carl
CarlzimC:Guys, I suggest you
read Hoxha's texts on the web. A lot is Stalinist crap, but a lot is OK
frogmobile:Sure
Carl
CarlzimC:The US Bill, HR 3048
is an attempt to legislate Fascism in the USA
frogmobile:The
British passed a similar Bill today too
Einai2000:Yes,
truly so, Khalid - and they never were supposed to "understand" anything
anyway, they never were supposed to think by their own...
frogmobile:Exactly
Iris. even here in Canada, they look at "us" as a bunch of barbaric backward
jombies, here to "steal opportunities" from the main stream Canadians.
Einai2000:...listening,
please proceed...
panta98: Excellent, Carl &
Khalid. Carl, not wanting to break your discussion, but, before we finish
today, I would like to hear your opinion about the latest US Bill, H.R.
3048!
panta98:It would allow law
enforcement to obtain any kind of document it wants, without first getting
a search warrant or a subpoena from a court These documents include any
written or electronic .... document possessed by an individual or, ...
panta98:
... more frighteningly, any document held
by a third party (such as bank records, credit card records, telephone
records, school records or an Internet Service Provider's customer records).
CarlzimC:This Bill = Big Brother.
CarlzimC: without a military
coup, without APC's in the streets.
CarlzimC:The
KGB would be proud.
panta98:The bill would gut
the Fourth Amendment requirement that private documents should be searched
only after a court issues a warrant based upon probable cause.
CarlzimC:Franz, next they will
knock on our doors.
CarlzimC:The
KGB would be proud.
panta98: Yes, Carl. The Gestapo,
the Storm Troops, at midnight. What amazes me is the following:
frogmobile:They
are already doing it in other subtle ways, guys.
panta98:Even worse, this bill
could allow information to be obtained without your knowledge. In other
words, the government could seize your bank records, Internet records or
other documents from third parties and you might not ever know.
CarlzimC: I would hire Markus
Wolf to implement this program. I heard he's looking for a job.
panta98:So, now, I'm getting
scared of the Internet!!!
Einai2000:...well,
let them seize my bank records, nothing to be seen there anyway .,..
CarlzimC:The Internet cannot
be controlled.
frogmobile:
No
it cannot.
panta98: But, here we see Big
Brother operating in front of our eyes!
CarlzimC: They can seize my
____
Einai2000:
Truly
so, Franz.
Einai2000: Carl
:-)
panta98: That there are more
subtle ways, that it has been done since Pericles, that is not the issue.
frogmobile:Why
should we worry? Make my day!
panta98:The issue is what the
USA -- not the Illuminati -- has in mind! For example, why Khalid won't
get a permanent job in a million years! Why all who think "otherwise" would
perish, rotting in the dungeons, or dying due to malnutrition, or genetically
engineered "toxic" foodstuffs.
CarlzimC:Total dictatorship,
Franz.
panta98:They make a law, open,
and clear, and millions remain as blind as bats.
Einai2000:Yes,
Franz - now overtly...
frogmobile: Probably,
I'll have to, because I have a "Muslim" name.
CarlzimC: But they won't succeed
because they're divided.
panta98: Here naked Fascism
and Nazism are being displayed, and we live in Make Believe Land.
frogmobile: Guys,
I must go to do my exercises before the night is over.
frogmobile: It
was a pleasure to chat.
panta98: Are you getting scared
of Big Brother now?
frogmobile: Nope!
Never man!
Einai2000: Okay,
Khalid, it was a pleasure. See you next Tuesday!
panta98: Well, then sleep tight,
don't let the Illuminati fleas bite!
CarlzimC: Khalid, you'd have
the same situation if you had a Jewish or any non-Anglo-Saxon name. like
Franz's.
frogmobile:My
laptop is also very "hot" I feel the heat on my left hand.
frogmobile:True.
CarlzimC: HAARP acting on your
laptop?
frogmobile:
It's scary, I fear radation.
frogmobile: Cancer,
man.
CarlzimC: Common with laptops.
panta98: Carl, well, Franz
is OK, it's Aryan-Illuminati; Lee is british, but it has "Chinese, Korean"
bad taste! Iris, I "hope" that you saved everything. Please just send me
the part, where I was thrown offline.
frogmobile: Yes,
and I think it is dangerous.
Einai2000:I
saved everything, Franz.
frogmobile: Goodnight,
folks!
frogmobile: Bye,
bye..............!
panta98: Good Night, Guy!
Einai2000: Buenas
noches, Khalid.
frogmobile has left
the room.
panta98: We'll also
make a stop here.
panta98:Carl,
but before we go, a word on that bill!
Einai2000: Please,
Carl.
CarlzimC: Bye, Khalid.
panta98: Is it just an attempt
to legislate fascism in the USA, or is the whole US State already crypto-fascist?
panta98:
Why such a law now? Is the USA threatened from inside?
CarlzimC: An attempt to legislate
fascism, as it has no limitations.
CarlzimC:
The Smith Act has limitations.
CarlzimC:
The USA needs it for global control.
panta98: Perhaps I under-estimated
the internal strife, the level of internal resistance, the activities of
"hornet" intellectuals and scientists.
CarlzimC: Now USA = NWP.
panta98: Well, that's Hitlerite,
Stalinist, Mussolinite!
CarlzimC: And the divisions
in the power elite.
CarlzimC:Yep,
Franz.
panta98:That's fascism, world
conquest, Fourth Reich!! It indicates that fascism during the first half
of the 20th century was not an accident, that inherently the world capitalist
system -- with or without Illuminati - is essentially authoritarian, exploitative,
dominant, discriminatory and alienating.
CarlzimC:Ultimately, we may
have a military coup, headed by General Feelgood!
CarlzimC:
Fascism with a smiley face!
panta98: Not that I'm amazed,
not that I don't know it, but I'm surprized how fast the Orwellian octopus
grows, globalizes itself, how it grabs everything already.
CarlzimC: APC's in the streets
in the USA.
CarlzimC:
Israel is a testing ground.
panta98: Yes.
Einai2000: Terrible...
panta98: Yes, I don't like
what is brewing in the Middle East, from the standpoint of this growing
globalized fascism.
Einai2000:Please
explain a little further for me, Franz?
panta98:This time, not the
Jews, but the Arabs will have to believe in it, who knows, even both of
them!
CarlzimC:Visit the opposition
in the Israeli and Palestinian sites. I posted above on this transcript.
panta98: I will, Carl. Only
I was offline. Later, having the full ms., I'll check it out.
Einai2000:Yes,
I'll do so, Carl. Thank you for the information.
panta98: However, Iris, coming
back to your question.
panta98:
Obviously, the current world population has to be reduced, not because
of their threatening numbers, but because the world fascist system has
no use for them anymore.
Einai2000: Yes..
CarlzimC: Both, Arabs and Jews,
Franz.
panta98:To let them die out
slowly, let them disappear unnoticed, by secretly sterilizing them, this
would take too long.
panta98:
Urgently, the system has to reconstruct, re-organize itself on a global
and galactic scale.
CarlzimC: But there is division
among the global elite and resistance.
panta98:Both global elite and
the resistance have the same problem. Also both are subject to the dynamics
of the New World Order: Towards the Coming Home of Hegel's World Spirit,
to Absolute Rest, to Rest In Peace, to DEATH. Don't you see the "PEACE
TALKS"!
panta98:There
is no going back. Read
your Hegel, everything is explained
there in the minutest details; he is the greatest "Prophet" of all soothsayers
of this world system, of history, of the labour process. The only problem
is, that in the meantime, probably, only half-a-dozen of people on this
globe can really still really read and understand Hegel in all his levels,
degrees, mensions and spheres!
Einai2000:...please
proceed....
panta98:The global system has
its own destructive dynamics.
CarlzimC: How would you reorganize
the global system?
panta98: Even just to stop
it, to try to turn the wheels of history back, would mean imminent global
suicide.
panta98: Just think about the
necessary giga-technology necessary to stop the coming holocaust, to somehow
curb all the rotten atomic plants on a world scale. To have an infinitesimal
chance of survival,
the whole damn capitalist process would have
to be stopped instantaneously, and all efforts should be launched in full
force, 48 hours a day, involving the totality of mankind, against certain
doom.
panta98:
Homo sapiens sapiens is travelling on the same road as his predecessors
and contemporaries, Homo Neanderthal, Homo Kenyapithecus, etc. He didn't
even last for a miserbale 200 000 years! The system has set loose underground
spectres and forces which it itself cannot stop anymore.
panta98:So,
the resistance, the internal strife, all that is much too late, a few drops
of water on a huge erupting volcano.
panta98:For
obvious reasons, we see an economic monopolisation, a merging, at top speed,
faster than
light, than ever before.
panta98:This
is just the material, the basic sign, of what will follow politically very
soon. One morning we'll wake up like the Russians a little while ago, to
discover that overnight the United States of America itself has disappeared
from the Cosmos!
CarlzimC has left the
room.
Einai2000:That
is, the so called current Middle East Crisis could be one of the means
to accomplish this "task" - similar to the "ethnic" conflicts sown by divide
et impera in Africa ...
Einai2000: Thank
you, Franz for explaining - but what happend with Carl?
Einai2000: Reinvited
Carl.
CarlzimC has entered
the room.
Einai2000:Welcome
back, Carl.
CarlzimC:Hi, folks
panta98: Not the election campaign
in the USA, not whether it would be Bush or Gore, is the issue. The stark
reality is simply that the capitalist system had its heyday. The current
political show, the political carnival, has no universal relevance.
panta98:
The accumulation process of Moloch, Baal and Pluto was a nightmare, a horror,
now just imagine its nadir, its death agony - and we live in the beginning
of its end, and in the end of its beginning.
CarlzimC:What will replace
it?
panta98:This is what we are
experiencing now -- economically the decline, the unification, the one-ifiedness
is already nearly complete.
panta98:What
will happen to the driving force of the system - competition? It will compete
with itself as One, devouring its very stinking tale. It is already imploding,
who has still eyes to look, please see!
panta98:
tail.
CarlzimC:Tale = tail
CarlzimC:How
will it end?
panta98: It is not replaceable.
It is uni-que. It has destroyed all its own possibilities, it is simply
non-replaceable.
panta98:What
will be, will exist, is that what in any case is or exists, independent
of capitalism.
panta98:Capitalism
is not the centre of history, is not the point of reference of history,
of the Cosmos of Cosmoses. Also "Man" is not the Alpha and Omega of Essence,
Existence and Transcendence! He is just an infinitesimal ...-hole in a
Black-Hole!
panta98:
How will it end? It ended already, Carl.
CarlzimC: Agreed, Franz. The
creative artists, writers, musicians, educators, scientists, etc. may form
a global renaissance.
CarlzimC:
Consistent with Karl Marx and H .G.Welles.
panta98:Yes, it's about time
that we analyse and see other things and beings around us, who have nothing
to do with capitalism or fascism. This NWO can only perish in an ex-birth,
an Exnaissance!
panta98:It
would be a great "honour" to have laboured for fascism, to discover that,
that was it, the one and only.
panta98:That
is what education made us to believe for millennia.
Einai2000:Truly
so, Franz. I suggest that we stop here, what do you think Carl and Franz?
panta98:I never was a capitalist,
never a fascist, so how on earth do I belong to capitalism? That it exploits
me, that's another story. Mount Everest is also not capitalist or fascist,
and it is being exploited by tourism.
panta98:
Yes, I'm also very tired.
CarlzimC: Agreed, Iris. Franz,
let's continue next week.
CarlzimC:
Great chat, tonight.
panta98:OK, next week, 1979
- today!
panta98:Good
Night, Carl.
Einai2000:
As always, it was a great pleasure - thank you, Franz, for the introduction.
I'm looking forward to next Tuesday.
panta98: Greet Fran from Jutta
and Me!!!
CarlzimC:Gute Nacht. Fran sends
her regards.
Einai2000:Buenas
noches, Carl & Franz! Regards to Fran, Carl.
CarlzimC:Regards to Jutta.
panta98:Thanks, Carl.
panta98:Bye!
CarlzimC has left the room.