Space, Time, Labour, Emancipation II
BREAKING THE LABOUR "SPACE AND TIME" BARRIER
23rd January, 2001 (Final, Corrected, Revised Version)
You have just entered room "panta98 Chat19."
panta98 has entered the room.
Welcoming ....
Einai2000:Hi
again, Carl!
flyout79:
Hi to all
CarlzimC:
Hi, folks.
Einai2000:Jutta!
Hello!
CarlzimC:
At last
juttaschmi:Hi.
Please invite Franz.
flyout79:
Hola Jutta
Einai2000:Franz,
back again!
Einai2000:but
he is in alreAdy, Jutta.
juttaschmi:Hola
Sven!
Einai2000:Franz
has entered this room, AOL said.
CarlzimC:Hi, Jutta, Iris, Sven.
Einai2000:He's
listed.
juttaschmi:Hi
Carl, Iris, Sven. Where is Franz?
flyout79:
He actually is in my list.
CarlzimC:I'll message
him
Einai2000:Jutta:
is Franz listed in your screen?
panta98:At
last, there I am!! Always the last!!!
flyout79:
Franz, you are the best.
Einai2000:Reunited
again!
juttaschmi:Reunited
and it feels so good! Finally: Hi everybody!
CarlzimC:Great!
panta98:Anyhow,
let's start, before the next Apocalypsis come! Jutta, proceed ....
juttaschmi:Sorry
for the delay - problems with Wingate.
Einai2000:I
suggest, that Jutta starts introducing the topic as long as AOL does not
fool around!
CarlzimC:Franz, please introduce
the topic
CarlzimC:What
is Wingate?
Einai2000:You
don't worry please, Jutta. Glad you finally could make it mi pana!
panta98:No,
Jutta first. I'll make a comment later.
panta98:Wingate
is our Modem sharing the Network between our computers.
juttaschmi:Wingate
is our LAN-Client, Carl. All right. Here we go. - We ended our last
chat with the proposal, that tonight, I would
give an introduction concerning our
topic: "Space, Time, Labour, Emancipation".
Einai2000:Yes,
Jutta.
CarlzimC:Proceed, Jutta
juttaschmi:...
and that also Iris would help with some comments! ;)
Einai2000:ha
;)
CarlzimC:Proceed.
THE MENTAL "TORTURE" BEGINS ....
juttaschmi:I
wanted to shed some light on the concepts of space and time, looking at
their "philosophical genesis" and also illustrate,
how those concepts were conceived
by the ultimate climax of Western-European philosophy,
that is, within the
Hegelian"open-closed" System, that identifies
the entire labour process with utmost
precision, capturing its motion as well as its
rest or absolute statics.
panta98:Not
so fast, I can't follow!
Einai2000:Franz,
you see the problem I'm having always? ;)
juttaschmi:Take
your time, Franz. It won't be that complicated anyway. This is just the
outline of what I wanted to do.
panta98:Yes,
Iris. We have slow-burn!!!
CarlzimC:Proceed. I'll save
the chat
panta98:OK!
Proceed .... memory functioning now. ....
Einai2000:The
one who is having slow-burn is me, my dear.... however, please proceed,
Jutta
juttaschmi:What
else did I want to do tonight? Well, I furthermore wanted to take a
glance at the change, that those concepts have
undergone in the course of the very
labour process, as expressed in modern physics,
especially in the realm of
non-conventional electromagnetic theory, as proposed
by (the famous) Lt. Col. E.
Bearden.
flyout79:
you are not longer the "slowest" under us, Iris. No longer.
juttaschmi:Take
it easy, Sven, take it easy! :) :)
CarlzimC:
8-)8-)8-)8-)
juttaschmi:No
fast road to freedom, as they say! ;)
panta98:I'm
trying ....
CarlzimC:Rocky road.
Einai2000:Excellent,
Jutta, proceed, please....
juttaschmi:Remember:
Bearden is engaged in a profound revision of electromagnetic
theory, where I think he comes close to something
that we have to "identify" and
debate here, that is, the phenomenological parameters
of the labour process,time and
space.
panta98:I'm
following ...
juttaschmi:What
a nice outline for tonight's chat, gentlemen and gentleladies!
However...
CarlzimC:Proceed
panta98:No
problem, Jutta, later I'll show the background of your excellent
introduction.
juttaschmi:...
most unfortunately, due to "time" restraints, I was not able to do the
necessary "research work" for a precise introduction
the way I would have liked to
give it, and so I will start the discussion with
something else, yet tightly related to our
topic.
Einai2000:(Just
for me, for the record, Jutta, was Bearden the one who was talking
about the "extension" of Formal Logics?)
panta98:Proceed
.... next time, we'll continue with the above.
juttaschmi:Exactly
so, Iris. He showed in a fascinating way, that unilaterality in
thinking, mathematics and physics imposed severe
limits for further research.
CarlzimC:Formal logics is widely
criticized today.
Einai2000:Thanks,
please proceed, Jutta...
juttaschmi:Bearden
thus suggests an extended logic, based however on the
Aristotelian one.
panta98:Yes,
I will comment later about Intensity and Extensity!
juttaschmi:So
let me introduce our chat tonight with a few remarks concerning what we
can call the artificial conditioning of the brain
via education & ideology.
Einai2000:Okay,
I'm listening...
CarlzimC:Proceed
juttaschmi:Franz
and I saw a film the other night, "Matrix". It is about two worlds, the
"real world" and the "virtual world".
panta98:Oh!
My poor aching "coco", as Khalid would say!! But, proceed, we are following.
...
juttaschmi:Sven,
have you seen the film "Matrix"?
juttaschmi:If
not, it is worth a try!
flyout79:
I did see Matrix.
juttaschmi:Billions
of "humans" are only aware of the latter one, as their brains are
literally being programmed so that they would
only "live" in the virtual, artificial world,
and have no idea of the real one, where they
are but living corpses, plugged onto some
sort of machine,that provides them with the programmes
and illusions that make up
their "lives".
CarlzimC:I saw Matrix. Real
= virtual reality. At the end, the hero loves Big Brother
panta98:Excellent
Sven, then you are "in", are "cool".
juttaschmi:Iris,
you have to see the film, too!
panta98:Proceed,
Jutta.
CarlzimC:Yep, folks
juttaschmi:In
the film, only a handful of people have managed to escape the
computer-programmed illusion, and know, what
the real world is like.
Einai2000:I
just saw some small parts of it as yet... Franz
flyout79:
I don't think I am "in" or "cool", just because I have seen a film. But
you are right, Franz.
Many people think so. Especially young people!
panta98:Thanks
for correcting me, Sven!
juttaschmi:Nevermind
having seen the film or not, Sven, I think you are "cool". ;)
CarlzimC:The handful of people
are conformist in their own way.
juttaschmi:This
handful of people has the big advantage to know of TWO worlds, and
to live and operate accordingly. They are occasionally
being joined by others of the
virtual world, who somehow are "in orbit" already
with regard to the real
world, smelling a rat in their carefully programmed,
virtual environment, and asking
questions that go beyond the virtual world.
CarlzimC:I'm hot - too old
to be cool.
juttaschmi:hehehehe,
Carl. No doubts about you being hot AND cool at the same
"time"!
Einai2000:Agreed,
Jutta! :)
flyout79:
I know some men, that are surely older than you Carl. And they are pretty
cool.
CarlzimC:Yep, at the
center of entropy.
panta98:Yes,
they were physically and mentally in "orbit".
juttaschmi:The
film shows, how perfectly a cage or prison the mind, the brains can be.
What the film-makers depict as a computer-programmed,
virtual reality, which is
supposed to be the only known reality to the
human beings, whereas the real world
contains (at least) TWO worlds, is but a new
version of an age-old theme, that was
already formulated by Plato in his "Republic":
...
juttaschmi: ... For
millennia, education & ideology have done a formidable job in creating
ONE virtual world, which happily has been accepted
and affirmed at all "times" and all
"spaces" - the labour process.
panta98:In
fact, Jutta, that Matrix programme has been running for millennia as
"Education" already.
juttaschmi:Exactly
so, Franz. And we are being confronted with Matrix-like "reality"
day by day! Not so, Iris?
Einai2000:It's
about "time" that this will come to an "end"...
panta98:As
Primary, Secondary and Higher Education. The latter tortures Iris &
Stella
now.
juttaschmi:This
Matrix-like reality gives us a hell of a time trying to interpenetrate
it
and go way beyond it.
Einai2000:You
are right for sure, Jutta. Please, don't remind me now, Franz!
juttaschmi:It
is our "emancipatory burden", so to speak, to interpenetrate this "virtual
reality" and find out about so many more "realities",
that "co-exist" with the labour
process.
CarlzimC has left the
room.
juttaschmi: Oops!
panta98: I'll
give you the master-key later, how to get out of this Matrix programme.
juttaschmi:Carl
is gone.
juttaschmi: Let's
fetch him back please
CarlzimC has entered
the room.
Einai2000:I
already reinvited Carl.
Einai2000:Welcome
back, Carl!
CarlzimC:
Hi, folks.
juttaschmi:Where
is he?
Einai2000:Carl
is here, Jutta...
juttaschmi:Ah,
welcome back, Carl.
CarlzimC:
Got disconnected.
CarlzimC:
Proceed ...
juttaschmi:We
sort of have to "identify the unidentifiable", and for that matter, we
have to apply our method and put our neurones
in "neither-nor-operation mode": we
have to affirm and negate the labour reality,
we have to neither affirm nor negate it,
that is, superate it!
juttaschmi:Not
so, Franz?
panta98: Yes,
Jutta, to excel, to transcend! Carl, I'll give us the master-key later,
how to get out of this Matrix programme.
Einai2000:Agreed,
Jutta, please proceed...
flyout79:
May I pose a question?
juttaschmi:You
will have to oil your neurones now, Franz. You are the Hausmeister
tonight and you will have to give us the key
to the building of multiple realities,
universes, etc. etc.
panta98:A
security code, an emancipatory surpassword.
juttaschmi:Please,
Sven.
flyout79:
Do you type that all at "real-time" or do you copy and paste it, Jutta?
juttaschmi:Part
is copy/paste, Sven, part is realtime.
panta98:Well,
it's enough to build the second one already!
CarlzimC:
I'm in unreal time
flyout79:
okay
juttaschmi:Whenever
one of us gives an introduction, we have some thoughts written
down and then paste them. So we are put into
orbit for the discussion.
panta98:Jutta
is fast on the "typewriter", but not quite as that, Sven!
juttaschmi:So,
finally: We have to build, as Carl likes to state, "our own worlds from
scratch", and this implies that we have to act
and think and excel within our own
parameters, that contain the ones of the labour
process as an infinitesimal part, yet
much much more than those.
juttaschmi:And
here is, where Franz, tonight's "Hausmeister", comes onto the scene.
panta98:Some
comments? Before I begin?
(Franz & Jutta Thrown Out Of The Cyber World For 5 minutes!!)
You have just entered room "panta98
Chat19."
juttaschmi:Back
from the parallel world!
panta98 has left the
room.
juttaschmi:Franz!
panta98 has entered
the room.
juttaschmi:Anybody
seen Franz?
panta98:I'm
back!
juttaschmi:ok!
juttaschmi:Iris,
any observations so far?
CarlzimC:Great, Franz.
juttaschmi:Questions,
remarks?
panta98: I
just wish to make a general comment with reference to our discussion. Is
that OK with you all?
CarlzimC:Yep.
juttaschmi:Please
proceed, Franz.
flyout79:
Sure!
panta98:Why
are we discussing such a complex, complicated theme, trying to define,
to
identify such complex things like Space and Time?
Sven, your question?
juttaschmi:(Is
Iris still there?)
flyout79:
Do you know the answer, Franz?
Einai2000:To
build "our own worlds from scratch", to act and think and excel by
means of our own parameters implies, amongst
other things, that we have to go beyond the
framework of "official" language, meaning of
terms, etc...
panta98:After
all, thousands of experts have already wrecked their brains on the issue.
panta98:What
are we trying to exemplify, to illustrate with this debate?
juttaschmi:Franz,
space and time are some of the parameters, the phenomenological
parameters, that characterize the labour process.
panta98:Yes,
Jutta.
juttaschmi:Iris
asked some time ago, what happens "AFTER" this process comes to
an "end" ...
panta98:Well,
Sven, we are trying to surpass the Labour Process, which mainly "moves",
"develops", "progresses" within Space and Time
parameters, which this very Labour
process had produced in its superstructure, in
Non-A, and is still reproducing them,
changing them, according to its needs and necessities.
juttaschmi:...
and you said, it is pretty difficult to ask the question in terms of space
and time.
panta98: I'm
going along, I'm on my way to try answering Iris' question.
Einai2000:...sorry,
I have some problems with the postings... you should just give me a
moment of "time" ... Please proceed, Franz
panta98:I'll
explain just now, why?? Jutta.
juttaschmi:Motion,
Bewegung,
Process, etc., is always expressed in terms of space and
time.
panta98:Jutta,
in other words, Man, the working beast, the labouring animal, has produced,
and
is still producing and reproducing Space and
Time in his superstructure, in his Spirit,
Intellect, Reason, in Society.
CarlzimC:Space and Time never
existed. Today, the illusion is ending because it no
longer serves the labor process.
panta98:Yes,
in the Matrix programme of Man, Carl.
juttaschmi:And
space and time parameters are the parameters of a process, which we
call the labour process - exploitation of nature,
economic exploitation, political
domination, social discrimination and human alienation.
CarlzimC:Space = distance
and time = motion
CarlzimC:time
= money
juttaschmi:Correctly
so, Carl.
panta98: D'accord,
Jutta. Proceeding ... Man alienates himself in Space, and he
"moves", "returns" to himself in "Time", in so-called
"History".
panta98:I'll
come to that pecuniary aspect just now, Carl.
CarlzimC:OK.
panta98:In
Labour, as Labour, he destroys Nature, his planetary Space, at the cost
of
his Negation, his Non-A, Time (which is Capital,
Money); hence he accelerates Time,
towards its Absolute, towards A Itself, towards
Repose, towards Death, his Death,
Labour's Death.
panta98:Any
comments?
juttaschmi:How
does labouring man accelerate time towards the Absolute, Franz? How
does he accomplish this?
flyout79:
I try to follow.
Einai2000:Not
as yet, Franz, I still have some problems to "get on the track", lost
something above I"m afraid...please, proceed
panta98:By
working harder, by accelerating productivity, measured in time, space and
exchange value.
juttaschmi:This
is pretty fast, Sven. I often have to read back, too. Don't worry, you
will receive the entire transcript of the chat,
and you can make comments or ask
questions later, which we could consider in the
next chat.
CarlzimC:He becomes intellectual
labor with zero-time on Internet.
juttaschmi:That's
it, Carl. I think you hit the nail onto its head here.
CarlzimC:On Internet, zero
time = real time.
panta98:
Brilliant,
Carl. Proceeding ... And yet, now, why does this concern us?
juttaschmi:Well,
firstly, because we are a part of this process, Franz, whether we like
it
or not.
panta98:Agreed.
juttaschmi:Yet,
we are not ONLY part of this process. And this is, where the problem
comes.
panta98:D'accord!
panta98:However,
it concerns us in a way that we are not on the road towards
Emancipation, in Space and Time parameters.
If this were so, then we would only be
labourers, and our end will certainly be death,
the death of all labourers, of Labour
Itself.
panta98:All
"emancipatory" endeavours operating ONLY within the
system are ONLY
revolutionary. They form
part of the Negation of Labour itself, form part of its inner
dynamism, its inner motion. In any case, the
Patria, Labour, has only an inner motion, it has no real "outside", related
to another postulate, or principle, different than eternal, absolute "A"!
CarlzimC:Related to this is
a chat at http://www.arabia.com
with the Egyptian author Osama
Anwar Okasha at 11 AM Venezuela Time
(3 PM GMT)
CarlzimC:
http://www.arabia.com
juttaschmi:Space
and Time parameters will disappear with the obliteration of the labour
process itself, Franz. - We'll check out the chat, Carl, thanks.
Einai2000:If
I remember correctly, Franz, in the last chat you were trying to make a
point with reference to our difficulties to capture,
analyse, "identify" (and probably it's
not even "identify") processes, relations which
are "operating" "beyond" the Labour
Process, that is, "beyond" time-space parameters...
panta98:Excellent,
Carl. We'll check it out!
CarlzimC:I encourage all to
join that chat.
panta98:This
I will explain just now, Iris.
panta98:Within
the system, within Labour, there is no possibility of Emancipation. But,
seeing that the only thing which billions know
is Labour, is the System, is this One and
Only Reality, hence, they are, mildly said, beyond
"salvation", "outside" of Emancipation.
Einai2000:...this
implies, that, given the fact that due to the "education" we received,
due to the "method of non-relating"...
juttaschmi:Exactly,
Iris. Remember, that I said earlier: we have to identify the
unidentifiable - which is a matter of method!
panta98:Yes,
Iris.
Einai2000:...we
are not able to "perceive" and analyse there relations we are
"interested" in now...
juttaschmi:proceed
CarlzimC:The method of serving
the power elites.
juttaschmi:the
method of transcending affirmation AND negation, Carl.
panta98:Yes,
Iris, I will comment on that "Relation" just now. ...Proceeding ...
Einai2000:the
relations, which are "beyond" the exclusive, formal logical non or
either-or relation...
Einai2000:ok,
I'll stop...
panta98:Yes.
panta98:Proceeding
....
panta98: Encompassing
zillions of spheres, Emancipation
is "there", in-side, out-side, any-where. To cut it off from its real,
true historic relations, by only trying to realize it within, in
the system, then it becomes only a level, then it is simply the
Negation within Labour, simply Revolution and nothing
more. The experts of Revolution are Labour, Capital, Capitalists and
Labourers. Not Emancipators!!
panta98:Any
comments to this central issue?
juttaschmi:Franz,
I see Iris' problem, the Matrix-problem. hang on, door-bell ...
Einai2000:...Valid
point, Franz. As you explained on another occasion...
panta98:Yes,
Iris.
CarlzimC:Laboring people are
getting killed worldwide in phoney revolutions.
Einai2000:what
they are claiming to be some "New Inventions", "Errungenschaften"
etc...
panta98:The
Capitalists came to power by means of a Revolution. Revoluzzione,
Rivoltura, is their very own, proper political invention!
Einai2000:...is
what they destroyed "before"... and now they claim to "discover" it...
CarlzimC:A cell phone in every
room.
panta98:With
the French Revolution, the greatest of all "times"!
CarlzimC:Franz, revolution
= counter-revolution
panta98:Yes,
Carl. Then followed Terrorism, the "Reign of Terror".
panta98:This
always follows any Revolution.
Einai2000:meaning
"it" e.g. other "relations", "realities" and so on that the one they
claimed to be the "one and only truth"...
panta98:
Labour's Pet: The Revolution! Thereafter comes Labour's Love: The "Reign
of Terror", Terrorism!
Einai2000:Proceed,
please...
CarlzimC:French Revolution
conducted for colonial ambitions.
Einai2000:Is
Jutta back, Franz?
CarlzimC:There has never been
a Revolution.
panta98:Capital
toppled feudalism with Revolution.
CarlzimC:Or feudalism decided
to switch.
Einai2000:...in
other words, a new "Affirmation"...
panta98:Better
even, Carl! Feudal Labour. In a way, with Industrial and Technological
Revolution, Labour destroys its Negation, its very own enemy, the Physical
Labourer, which was the backbone of agricultural feudalism.
juttaschmi:I'm
back, reading back. Please proceed.
CarlzimC:Affirmation of same
old Scheisse.
panta98:As
I was saying: Encompassing zillions of spheres, Emancipation is "there",
in-side, out-side, any-where. To cut it off from its real, true historic
relations, by only trying to realize it within, in
the system, then it becomes only a level, then it is simply the
Negation within Labour, simply Revolution and nothing
more. The experts of Revolution are Labour, Capital, Capitalists and
Labourers. Not Emancipators!!
Einai2000:Truly
so, Carl.
CarlzimC:D'accord, Franz
panta98:Within
the Patria, within the Fatherland, within Alienation, the historical
umbilical cord to Emancipation, the Emancipatory
Bezug,
Relation, is lost, is cut off,
exactly because of Labour, because of the unilateral
exploitation of Nature by Society.
CarlzimC:Aux armes, cityoens
juttaschmi:Voilá
Carl!
panta98:Here
is the "relation" to your question, Iris!
panta98:Any
comments?
juttaschmi:Affirmation
contains both, affirmation and negation. This is,
why negation
remains within the system.
CarlzimC:Cool comments?
CarlzimC:affirmation
= negation.
juttaschmi:Cool
comments, please.
juttaschmi:Exactly
so, Carl.
panta98:So
what concerns us about Space and Time?
panta98:Hence,
Emancipation, like History, is simply "here" and "now", it cannot be
reached in "Space" and "Time" parameters.
juttaschmi:Negation,
as it "relates" directly to affirmation, is, inevitably, a part of the
latter.
Einai2000:Agreed,
Franz.
CarlzimC has left the
room.
juttaschmi: Ooooopppppppssssssss!
Einai2000:The
problem however is, as I commented above...
juttaschmi:Carl
has gone.
CarlzimC has entered
the room.
CarlzimC:
Hi, folks
juttaschmi:Moving
between parallel universes, Carl, eh?
panta98:What's
the problem, Iris?
juttaschmi:You
are faster than the speed of light, Carl.
juttaschmi:CoolCarl!
juttaschmi:(el
guapo)
juttaschmi:proceed,
Iris
Einai2000:Geht
grade nicht, sorry!
Einai2000:please
proceed...
CarlzimC:My ISP explained that
their servers often go down. Unavoidable.
juttaschmi:everything
has a price and a proce, Iris. :)
juttaschmi:OK
Carl, no problem.
panta98:Finalizing,
proceeding .... We are not in a spatial-temporal process of
emancipating ourselves.
PART ONE OF THE "MASTER-KEY"
panta98:Applying
"Formal Logic" in an appropriate fashion: EITHER
we are A (i.e.,
A and Non-A) -- ALIENATED
-- OR>
we are (A a n d B) --- EMANCIPATED.
panta98:Simple
Formal Logic: EITHER we
are alienated OR
we are emancipated.
"A and Non-A" is a single (intensive) principle;
"A a n d
B", more precisely,
"(A and Non-A) a
n d B" are two different (intensive
and extensive) principles.
juttaschmi:Iris,
I think our problem is related to everything that goes beyond
affirmation/negation. In other words, we are
not yet fully capable of the
"neither-nor-operation
modus".
CarlzimC:What is the price
of emancipation?
panta98:Carl,
that we cannot eat only our Revolutionary Cake, and then still pretend
to have left
our whole Emancipatory Cake.
Einai2000:I"m
afraid so, Jutta. Agreed to your comment.
juttaschmi:You
become sort of something from outer space, Carl. That's the price.
Nobody sees you.
CarlzimC:Agreed, Franz
panta98:Now,
Iris, it gets complicated. ...
PART TWO OF THE "MASTER-KEY"
panta98:Emancipation
does not concern mainly Space and Time; it has to do with "Inside and
Outside",with the Intensive a n d
Extensive AND Transcentive. Exactly our mental,
intellectual space and time barriers block us
from acting a
n d thinking intensively
a n d
extensively, to
THINK
at all.
CarlzimC:The Invisible Man,
the Shadow.
panta98:For
true, real parameters, you need Intensity a n d Extensity;
if your Extensity
is only IN the ONE, is Revolution, how can you
talk about Emancipation which exists
as Nature
a n d Society, as Intensity
a n d Extensity?
juttaschmi:You
are like the handful of people in Matrix. The ones that operate in two
or more worlds and have to communicate with a
ONE-world labour-man.
Einai2000:Agreed,
I tried to refer to this problem above, Franz.
juttaschmi:The
Shadow!
panta98:This
is why BILLIONS only have an "within", an "intensiveness", why they
want "change within the system", want Rest, why
they want Peace, why they want
Order, a World Order, a New World Order. They
exercise yoga, they meditate, they pray!
CarlzimC:Franz, consistent
with Soros' reflexivity
panta98:Yes,
Carl. Therewith my Intermezzo Comments have
ended.
juttaschmi:Extensity
presupposes a second postulate, Franz.
Einai2000:I
thought you only started, Franz!
juttaschmi:Perhaps
even a third one.
CarlzimC:Reflexivity = Observer
= Participant.
juttaschmi:Wow,
we are so fast tonight. I am getting dizzy here.
panta98:I
could go on, and on, and on, ... but, then, what will be left for the next
chats????
Einai2000:Franz,
I'm sure we won't ever have the problem that there will be nothing left
for the next chat ;)
juttaschmi:Sven,
did you fasten your seatbelt? ;)
juttaschmi:I
forgot to fasten mine!
Einai2000:But,
we have to "get to it" somehow, Jutta.
flyout79:it
won't fasten that much ;)
juttaschmi:Now
I'm swirling around in "space".
panta98:Yes,
Jutta.
panta98:The
problem is that we have just a fake "outside".
panta98:it
is always "inside".
juttaschmi:Get
what, Iris? - Sorry, to many fast comments "at a time".
CarlzimC:The personnae
Einai2000:That's
my problem, too, Jutta. I meant the Postulate, as you indicated...
CarlzimC:The personnae destroys
our inner ennergy (Wilhelm Reich).
CarlzimC:personnae
= mask.
panta98:Everything
happens inside the system, changes within the system, that has no
outside, it does not allow any outside, not allow
anything to come from outside, except perhaps "Pentagon
Aliens" on July 4th!
juttaschmi:Carl,
the "many worlds" are conscious worlds. Levels and degrees of
consciousness.
Einai2000:But
Franz, to state exactly this presupposes somehow that you are already
beyond the limitations of time-space parameters,
not so?
panta98:The
brains have no "outside" too -- nothing outside this world is "thought";
everything is just out of this world only,
billions only talks about "Gott und die Welt".
juttaschmi:The
problem begins with "outside" (space parameter).
juttaschmi:(the
problem begins with "begins" = time parameter)
juttaschmi:How
do we interpenetrate the unkown with concepts, that are chains to our
brains?
Einai2000:Yes,
Jutta, this was the point Franz was making last time -- how do we
express...
PART THREE OF THE "MASTER-KEY"
panta98: "Excellent Question, Superb Remark! "Outside" is a Labour Space parameter; Extensity is our Emancipatory Diagory, which means Intensity a n d Extensity, based on Two Different Postulates. Now, how do we break the Space-Time barrier?
juttaschmi:Agreed,
Franz. Just clarifying things.
Einai2000:same
here...
panta98: By
thinking, by thinking intensively a n d extensively, we explode
the Labour
"Space and Time", the Motion Barrier, and
we transcend into History, we are in Emancipation.
panta98:This
is the Master-Key that I spoke about earlier.
panta98: Unfortunately,
as a result of the millennia-old Labour Process, of Alienation, not much
of Thinking, Thought, Intellect and Reason is left on this planet.
panta98:
It is not so much that only 4% of a "normal" brain functions, it is worse,
96% of nearly all the billions of "brains" are practically totally perverted,
are nearly destroyed; in all probability, they cannot be put into full
operation anymore; in death agony, they only function at half-mast, at
4% of their potential capacity, of which already nearly next to nothing
is left. Superstition, idolatry, religion, ideology, education and
"newspeak" have played havoc with billions of minds. Even the few "elites"
and "intellectual labourers" are in no way better of.
juttaschmi:No
easy road to emanicpation. The neurons get heated up.
panta98:Only
then, Iris, could ask any question! In fact, then there are no Labour,
no Space and Time questions anymore.
Einai2000:Then...well...
However, thanks, Franz ;)
panta98:To
grasp the second "thinking" postulate, is a conditio sine qua non that
half the emancipatory journey to History is already accomplished.
Einai2000:Do
you put the quotation marks to indicate that we are "then" "beyond"
the parameters of thinking, Franz?
panta98: Not
to accept only ONE reality, the LABOUR reality, is already thinking, is
already thinking extensively, thinking "outside" Space and Time parameters,
is jacta est alea, is crossing the Emancipatory Rubicon!
juttaschmi:My
thinking cap has reached its capacity. I have to "think" of something
beyond thinking now.
panta98:Yes,
Iris, "then" meaning "extending towards Emancipation".
Einai2000:Jutta
;)
panta98:You
excel like that, Jutta, you excel thinking itself!It was so easy to teach
billions just to count ONE, one reality.
juttaschmi:The
"neural connections"of a functioning brain are being made faster than
the speed of light - perhaps they are not even
measurable in time parameters.
panta98:Can't
we use our imagination, and count till TWO, till two completely different
realities, worlds?
juttaschmi:We
surely can, Franz.
panta98:Well,
that is "extending", but not in Space and Time parameters.
CarlzimC:Listening
juttaschmi:Yet,
we have to do more than count: because TWO is not a simple addition
of ONE and ONE, but it is "Two AND One" - imagine
if we had to develop our own
mathematics!
panta98:Poor
Carl, Poor Us, that is still coming!! Don't be too impatient!! We do not
think
in "space and time", even if we use miserable spatial-temporal words, symbols,
gestures, language or mathematics to express our thoughts, to communicate
with each other.
Einai2000:I
am having difficulties to comment on your introductiory remarks,
Jutta&Franz, to combine them and the comments
inbetween, and it's a pity because
there have been excellent remarks of which I
also first have to "think" about... please
proceed...
CarlzimC:We need to develop
the skills to deal with infinite realities.
juttaschmi:Truly
so, Franz. - Iris, sorry. This was a pretty fast&combined
"speed-of-light" introduction.
panta98:Our
whole world outlook differs, the moment when we just consider the
possibility that other spheres exist.
juttaschmi:Agreed,
Carl. And infinite = finite AND infinite.
Einai2000:Excellent
and gripping, apart of the fastness and nevertheless, ich bin
begeistert :)
Einai2000:Agreed,
Franz.
panta98:Unfortunately,
this "fastness" has nothing to do with Space and Time, it
concerns Thinking, thinking faster than Light,
than Lightning.
juttaschmi:Yes,
Iris, I am begeistert (=enthusiastic), too. (et my neurons got all mixed
up in the acceleration.)
juttaschmi:This
is what I said, before, Franz. Thinking cannot be measured in time
parameters.
juttaschmi:And
neither can it be measured in space parameters.
Einai2000:Yes,
Franz, I'd rather say the "compactness", the "relatedness" perhaps..
panta98:Thinking
is relating, putting into relation one reality with another, one sphere
with another, and to know all the zillion
relations which result from this. This is transcending,
emancipating, historicizing!
juttaschmi:Carl,
we need to develop a whole "arsenal" of skills.
panta98:This
is "living" at last!
juttaschmi:Always
be "a second ahead in time" and "a millimeter ahead in space".
panta98:The
bottom line is: ...
juttaschmi:Those
time and space parameters are lingering all around us! ;)
juttaschmi:I
have time- and space-paranoia now.
Einai2000:Jutta
:)
juttaschmi:The
Shadow-Syndrome.
panta98:The
first step towards Emancipation, in which we are in any case, is to
detonate our spatial-temporal Orwellian Alcatras,
our Heavy Security Prison Walls.
juttaschmi:You
never know, when they hit you.
juttaschmi:The
Matrix-Prison.
panta98:Yes!
Jutta.
flyout79:
Puh!
panta98:Surely,
the "brain" could have been used for other purposes, ever "since
birth", and not for that misery that is going
on inside our cranium at "present".
panta98:But,
it is never too late to mend, to transcend, this my Good Old British
Education taught me.
juttaschmi:They
are heavily investigating one of the last "mysteries of science",
Franz, that is precisely the brain.
panta98:The
poor things are examining the "brain"; it is only a nincompoop who only
thinks
with a cranium and some grey matter. Bourgeois
philosophers have repeated it so many times: Thinking is abstract! How
are you going to analyse "abstractions" in the "brain", in a concrete NASA
laboratory?
juttaschmi:Perhaps
they are trying to find out how much "socially necessary labour
time" is involved in a single "thought operation"
...
panta98:They'll
have to examine the stardust on Pluto, to examine "thinking" at its minimum!
juttaschmi:...
so as to assign the "right value" to the products of intellectual labour.
Einai2000:Or
they are investigating the 96% which they say are "not activated", who
knows!
juttaschmi:Carl,
are you still there?
panta98:Well,
if they find all that out in a "brain", then it must be that of a "labour
dinosaur".
panta98:Carl,
are you still there?
juttaschmi:They
say, the human brain only employs a meagre 4 or 5 per cent of its full
capacity.
juttaschmi:Sven,
shall I paste you a cyber-beer now?
Einai2000:Yes,
Jutta, in other words, the "experiment" was successful, the mission
completed!
CarlzimC:Listening. Fran came
home from work.
panta98:They
told us that the Earth is flat and static, and we believed them; then they
told us that we think with our brains, and we
still believe them. What will they tell us "tomorrow"?
That the Earth is a round peg in a square Black
Hole?
juttaschmi:Mission
completed, Iris. That's it. And the mission was, to destroy the
natural faculties of the brain.
flyout79:Thanks
for the beer. I'll drink it later on. Otherwise I can't follow at all.
panta98:What
they analyse these days as "brains" are white skeletons of potential brains
of yestermillennium, brains in death agony.
juttaschmi:Don't
panic please, Sven. I couldn't follow all of it either so quickly. Later,
you just read back, and you understand, what
you can understand, and you understand,
what you can not understand.
panta98:Here,
in this perverted "Third Grade World", most people cannot even associate
two things anymore, you have to order your groceries, one by one. To study
such a god forlorn brain for thinking, would be like feeding the Pacific
Ocean as breakfast to a Bush, or to a Bushman. As nonsensical as all that!
juttaschmi:Agreed,
Franz. The destruction is very much advanced.
panta98:You
need a mind to have a mentality, you need a functioning brain to be able
to study it!
We have studied and investigated enough crap
and nonsense at our universities until now. To find a healthy brain, that's
like looking for a needle at the bottom of the Antartic Sea.
panta98:Too
late, they began to investigate the Brain!
juttaschmi:No
doubts about that, Franz.
Einai2000:...or
for something which might make sense in some of the current "theories".
panta98:Mine,
they won't get!! It's not for sale, is not on the market, it has no Price,
no Prize!!!
Even Aristotle and Kant did not sell their real
"brains" to survive, to earn a living. In their lifetime, nobody knew what
they really were thinking. Even Hegel complained bitterly that none of
his students ever understood his thinking and thoughts, except one, Schopenhauer;
however, he lamented that even that one misunderstood him.
panta98:
So, we should not be surprized that only very few people would ever understood
our ways of action, thinking and thought. In the aurora, on the horizon,
on the lonely mountain peaks, we are all alone, and we should enjoy the
emancipatory solitude; it encourages thinking and excellence.
juttaschmi:Iris,
Iris. You just switch your brain to the "community power-mode", and
then you will be able to write your seminar paper.
juttaschmi:Franz,
we will be taking good care of your brain. Iris especially likes to ask
frontier-questions, so that your neurones won't
get rusty.
FADING OUT --- GOOD NIGHT!!!
panta98:OK!
Poor me!!! This was heavy stuff. We'll send you the text. You all study
it well till
next Tuesday, and then "la lutta continua!".
Einai2000:Thanks
for the tip, Jutta, however I'd rather like to switch it to a mode
beyond time-space parameters. In the "community
power mode" I've been too long
already to put it somehow ;)
flyout79:Okay!
juttaschmi:As
for me, I actually will have a REAL beer now.
panta98:I
will be very happy to welcome all back next time.
Einai2000:All
right, then I'll rush off to see if I still can get the last buseta.
juttaschmi:So
we see each other next Tuesday.
panta98:Jutta
has the complete text. But, please send us what you all have.
juttaschmi:OK
Iris.
Einai2000:We
will be there for sure!
panta98:Remember
we were out for a few minutes.
juttaschmi:Also
dann: Good night everybody. Enjoy your Feierabend and your Beer
and your Mate Tea.
panta98:"outside'
but also "extended".
flyout79:Jutta?
juttaschmi:Next
time we will chat in outside-extended mode. - Sven?
flyout79:Is
the torture over now?
Einai2000:ok,
then I rapidly save&send the whole chat. It was a great pleasure as
always. Goodnight, Carl, Sven, Jutta&Franz.
juttaschmi:Torture
is over now, Sven.
flyout79::)
LOL
flyout79:okay
juttaschmi:hehehehehhehehehe
flyout79:until
next Tuesday folks
panta98:Thanks
ever so much for coming, enjoying our comments, Sven!
CarlzimC:OK, guys. Listening
and learning tonight. I'll send Franz what I could save.
juttaschmi:Until
next Tuesday, Sven. Take care.
Einai2000:See
you next Tuesday all, bye!
juttaschmi:Thank
you, Carl. It is always a pleasure to have you here.
panta98:Take
Care, carl. Greetings to Fran!!!
juttaschmi:Bye
Iris.
juttaschmi:Labi
Nachti, Carl.
juttaschmi:Bonne
Nuit, Sven.
CarlzimC:Enjoyed tonight's
chat
panta98:Bye,
Sven and Iris!!!
flyout79:N8
juttaschmi:Buenas
Noches, Franz.
panta98:I
had fun too.
juttaschmi:N8!!
juttaschmi:I
enjoyed this, too.
panta98:Gute
Nacht!!!
panta98:Hamba
Kakuhle!!!
Einai2000:Buenas
Noches!
juttaschmi:Take
care, everybody!
Einai2000:bonne
nuit ;)
panta98:Goeie
Aand!
CarlzimC:Gute nacht Fran, Sven,
Iris, Jutta
juttaschmi:*Goie
Naacht*
juttaschmi:Gute
Nacht, Carl. Schöne Träume - sweet dreams.
CarlzimC:Buona sera, Labinachti
juttaschmi:Buona
Notte!
juttaschmi:Grüazi.
CarlzimC has left the
room.
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