Carl (Teaneck,
USA)
Stella (Mainz,
Germany)
Iris (Freiburg,
Germany)
Jutta (Merida, Venezuela)
Franz (Merida, Venezuela)
Space, Time, Labour, Emancipation VIII
What Produced Labour & Alienation?
Emancipatory Fire versus
Labour Energy!
6th March, 2001
SLIGHTLY EDITED, ORIGINAL VERSION
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You have just entered room "panta98
Chat53."
CarlzimC has entered the room.
juttaschmi has entered the room.
SAYING HI!
CarlzimC:
Hi, Franz&Jutta
juttaschmi:Hi
Carl!
panta98:Hi
Carl & Jutta!!
juttaschmi:Hi
Franz.
juttaschmi:Where
are Iris and Stella?
CarlzimC:Will
Stella and Iris join?
juttaschmi:They
said they would, Carl.
panta98:Still
waiting for Iris & Stella, who will use the same computer from Mainz!
naranjahit
has entered the room.
panta98:I'm
inviting them!
juttaschmi:However,
they will be using the same computer and contribute as one person, as Iris
is visiting Stella in Mainz, Germany.
panta98:Hi!
Iris & Stella!
juttaschmi:Hi
naranjahit = StellaIris!
naranjahit:Hi,
Carl, Franz & Jutta!
juttaschmi:One
of you writes, the other one says what to write! ;-)
naranjahit:It´s
great to "see" you all again!
juttaschmi:Iris
and Stella, is this both of you?
naranjahit:I
will tell Iris and she has to translate, hehehehe!
naranjahit:let´s
see....
juttaschmi:Aha!
Stella, I can see clearly now ...
WARMING UP ....
panta98:Folks,
today, I have a somewhat complex, but most interesting introductory task.
It will take some "time".
juttaschmi:Don't
panic, Stella and Iris. Just don't start to fight who's turn it is to write...
panta98:Hence,
be patient! I'll pause in between, at appropriate levels, and ask for comments,
then we'll continue. Later, in the debate section, we'll return to central
issues voiced before, and discuss them extensively. Agreed?
naranjahit:Please,
Franz, introduce the topic - by the way, we saw the Matrix two days ago,
finally! Excellent movie!
juttaschmi:No
problem, Franz. We will be patient.
CarlzimC:D'accord,
Franz
naranjahit:
Thank
you, Stella
juttaschmi:Agreed.
- Agreed on Matrix, too, Stella and Iris
panta98:Then.
I'll proceed. We have a very long way to go. Back To Ancient Greece!
naranjahit:
Agreed
Franz
juttaschmi:That
is a long road to travel, Franz.
TAKING OFF ....
panta98:Firstly,
let us come to our scientific, philosophic éclaircissement of "energy"
(Excuse, my French). Before we can highlight any concept or phenomenon,
it is always advisable to check its connotation in our own vocabulary and
understanding of the term.
panta98:Agreed?
naranjahit:o
lala
juttaschmi:Agreed.
naranjahit:sure!
CarlzimC:Yep
panta98:If
we have not yet thought about it, then, it is about "time", to define it
with scientific precision and philosophic incision within the context of
our emancipatory endeavours. Otherwise, others will take us on a wild goose
chase, and sow pandemonium to the four winds.
panta98:It
is no use to dive into a discussion, debate or chat, pretending that we
all know what we are talking about; in the end, only theoretical confusion
and philosophical chaos would reign.
panta98:But,
firstly, let us look at the concept, how it was taught to us, how our wonderful
education inculcated it into our minds.
juttaschmi:Okay,
Franz. Let's take a look.
naranjahit:Proceed,
please.
panta98:A
simple, official dictionary would tell us the following; forcefulness and
vigour in actions and words; busy activity, making business, power of doing
work, labour; well, that's what most world citizens believe what it is
all about!
juttaschmi:Energy
is being associated with / related to "labour".
naranjahit:
vigour?
panta98:In
an elementary physics class, our teacher will tell us that "energy" is
the unifying concept of all physical science that associates with any system
a capacity for work; well, there we go again: Work! Labour! Hence, even
a Clock, the Cosmos, the Cosmic Clocks, the Universe, all work! Poor alienated,
exploited things!
juttaschmi:Feuer,
Stellairis.
naranjahit:Thank
you, Jutta!
juttaschmi:Exactly
so, Franz. - Welcome, Stellairis.
panta98:Excellent:
Vigour is Fire, that will be the centre of our discussion just now. Be
patient!
panta98:In
Ethiopia, one of the poorest countries in the Fatherland,"energy" is mainly
derived from firewood and charcoal.
panta98:Today,
all its trees are depleted and erosion of its soil is completed. Currently,
hydroelectricity is generated at three stations on the Awash, two on the
Blue Nile. This is what the Ethiopians understand by "energy".
juttaschmi:I
see.
CarlzimC:The
force required to maintain the exchange value of labor = mind control =
alienation.
panta98:Yes,
Carl.
juttaschmi:That
also falls under the concept energy, Carl.
juttaschmi:Excellent
observation by the way, Carl.
panta98:Another
example, similarly, in Syria, muscular energy -- both animal and human
-- is still used in manufacture, for instancce, in the production of pottery
and cooking oil.
CarlzimC:That's
what I meant, Jutta, Thanks.
juttaschmi:Welcome,
Carl.
panta98:However,
modern factories are already run by electricity, supplied either by state-owned
generating plants or by factory generators. For small industries such as
goldsmithing, even gas is still used. This is what the Syrians understand
by "energy".
CarlzimC:In
Egypt - Aswan Dam - Electricity.
juttaschmi:Exactly
so, Carl.
panta98:Paging
through the latest issue of the Royal Encyclopaedia Britannica, I was consoled
with the following explanation: ...
juttaschmi:Go
ahead, Franz.
panta98:It
comes just now, Stella, patience, a surprise, a surprise .....
CarlzimC:Any
nuclear power plants in the Mideast?
panta98:What
do you think, it would tell me about energy?
CarlzimC:Proceed,
Franz.
panta98:Well,
there we go: ... ... "The term energy is difficult to define precisely,
but one possible definition might be the capacity to produce an effect.
Fortunately, the word is familiar to everyone in everyday language and
use, so the concept of energy is readily acceptable. "
CarlzimC:Energy
fuels and controls the labor process.
panta98:So,
there you see. We know it now!
panta98:Correct,
Carl!
juttaschmi:The
concept Energy stems from Ancient Greek, energeia, and means
literally "effectiveness", Franz. - We could probably subsume all the above
mentioned as "Classical Energy" - manpower, horsepower, waterpower, steampower,
even windpower, etc.
panta98:In
this case, energy itself "produces", it works. Wonderful, we are wiser
than ever!
panta98:What
does thermodynamics tell us about energy, work, and heat? It seems that
it has to do with the transfer of energy from one place to another and
its transformation from one form to another.
juttaschmi:Effectiveness
can be potential or "actual", real.
naranjahit:
Meyers
Taschenlexikon says: "the labour stored in a physical system"...
the term energy is coming from the Greek term energeia....
panta98:Our
laureated erudite experts tell us that in different ways energy is possessed
or stored by a thermodynamic system. Also, that the total energy of the
system includes the internal energy as well as kinetic energy and gravitational
potential energy.
juttaschmi:Thank
you, Stellairis.
naranjahit:jet
lag!
naranjahit:sorry!
juttaschmi:No
problem, Stellairis! :-)
panta98:Well,
well, Bearden, Tesla, Reich, Titarenko and Bill Lyne tell us other strange
stories, as we will note later in the discussion. Not so, Carl?
CarlzimC:Thermodynamics
- the BS that energy reaches equilbrium - Itt never does.
panta98:BS!
That's the word, Carl!!
juttaschmi:The
concept "Energy" in physics is embedded in the so called Energieerhaltungssätze,
Franz (conservation of energy postulates).
CarlzimC:D'accord,
Franz
panta98:Thanks,
Jutta.
panta98:Proceeding
....
juttaschmi:Physics,
at least classical physics, is built on the Energieerhaltungssatz.
CarlzimC:Energy
always flows from the ether- it is never conserved.
panta98:Anyhow,
what about the famous "Alternative Energy"? In 1996, the Paris-based group
of the International Energy Agency (IEA) in a document told us that the
demand for alternative energy sources would grow strongly in the first
decade of the Third Millennium.
panta98:Interesting.
However, they confirmed that these "alternative" energy sources would account
for only a small portion of the world's energy mix by 2010. Imagine, and
Bearden claims that by then "Armageddon" already would have been sowing
disaster and catastrophe all over the land.
panta98:The
IEA still estimated that by 2010, fossil-based fuels would account for
almost 90% of total demand. Nonetheless, it indicated that nonhydroelectric
renewable sources, such as biomass, wind, wave, solar, and geothermal power
would register the highest growth rate.
juttaschmi:Bearden
sort of mocks the Alternative Energy projects; he says they are "nice"
and "understandable", yet completely inefficient for the tasks ahead.
naranjahit:Yes,
indeed, Jutta.
panta98:That
we'll discuss in the debate section, Jutta. Interesting remark!
juttaschmi:Okay,
Franz.
CarlzimC:Bearden
is not quite correct-Alternative energy sources and applications have been
developed - ready to roll.
panta98:Yes,
Carl. But ... The World Energy Council (WEC) is even more optimistic; it
claims that renewable sources could provide 5-8% of the world's power requirements
by 2020; of course, accompanied by additional spending on research and
development.
panta98:So,
Carl. ... on the one hand, instead of saying "farewell" to Mother Earth
by 2007 -- according to Bearden, --; on the other hand, until 2020 -- according
to the WEC, --; it seems that we are still "faring well" with our current
energetic sources and resources.
juttaschmi:No
doubts, that there are alternative energy sources already contributing
and applications ready to be used, Carl. Yet, the world wide energy perspective,
so Bearden, demands much much more effectiveness (=energy).
panta98:Now,
important for our introduction. ....
panta98:Now,
let us see what "energy" could be in the context of our Science
& Philosophy.We should recollect, as Marx pointed out already, that
in ideology everything is upside down, like in a camara oscura.
He should know it, he himself was the negation in the contradiction of
the capitalist system.
juttaschmi:So,
from the upside down perspective, what would "energy" be, Franz?
panta98:In
other words, according to our method, studying the ideology of the system,
you could pursue all the multifarious "truths" of history. The truth could
be "absolute", could be the reverse, could be both, could be neither the
one nor the other, etc.
juttaschmi:Of
course we could say, that energy equals the destruction of natural resources,
and not their build-up.
naranjahit:I
cannot say if Beardon is correct or "false" in his asseverations, however,
he made another interesting remark which he underlines, that to "solve"
the problem "out of the box" thinking has to be applied, is the
sine
qua non .... in other words, the scientific parameter settings
have to be "changed" but please proceed, Franz
CarlzimC:Jutta,
Bearden is a CIA guy and, thus, has to pretend that this technology is
not developed for use.
panta98:Stella,
don't get a "heart attack", here we go ... pongase sus pilas!!! Culture,
tradition!!
panta98:Let
us look at Lucifer, Prometheus, Pandora, Heracleitus, Wagner's Götterdämmerung
and the Icelandic "Ragnarök". What do they have in common? Could they
give us some emancipatory clues concerning the origin and meaning of "Energy",
"Light" and "Fire"?
juttaschmi:Thanks
for the clarification, Carl. However, don't you think he might have a point
in what he writes; nevermind being a CIA guy?
CarlzimC:Or
people will ask "Why hasn't it been used?"
panta98:Recovered,
Stella?
panta98:
Let's get to the Pudelskern of the Matter!
CarlzimC:A
valid point, Jutta
naranjahit:Please
proceed...
juttaschmi:Okay,
Carl.
panta98:The
interesting thing about ideology, "newspeak", mind and thought control,
and lies, is that they are based on some historic "truth", which they are
distorting, disguising, hiding. If this would not be so, then they could
impossibly perform their mephistophelic, diabolical aims.
juttaschmi:Agreed,
Franz.
panta98:Studying
certain varieties of ideological rubbish, scientifically and philosophically,
gives you the decisive clues to cosmic realities, to history, to energy,
to labour, to natural exploitation, and to much more. You don't need to
"believe" in this putrefied, wrecked jetsam and flotsam, but you must know
their mischievous contents, their ulterior motives.
juttaschmi:That
is advisable, Franz.
panta98:Stella,
you know what "jetsam" or "flotsam" are? Carl would tell you!!
panta98:You
just need to have a sound epistemology and a precise and incisive method
of logical approach to reveal the occult ether physics or the cosmic nature
of "energy".
juttaschmi:
Iris
surely knows, what a "jet lag" is ...
naranjahit:
über
Bord geworfene Ladung, segun
Babylon;-)
CarlzimC:The
Arab oil producers and Iran are driving the NWO nuts, as they want to stick
to their mix of non-tech and tech energy sources in their countries.
naranjahit:
I
mean the "jetsam"
panta98:Precisely,
so. ... It is as plain and simple as all that. In all mythologies, "superstitions",
religions, traditions, cultures, fairy tales, art, drama and music, you
could find most interesting traces of myriad kinds of emancipatory, historic
"truths".
naranjahit:however,
I also feel like some "über Bord geworfene Ladung" !
naranjahit:proceed,
please
juttaschmi:What
emancipatory, historic truth is hidden behind the concept energy, Franz?
CarlzimC:So
they appease the NWO by being soft on Israel.
panta98: Yes,
Jutta, we want to find the emancipatory, historic "concept" that is hidden
behind the ideological term "energy". That is what this chat is all about.
Well, Stella, then you must be Uncle Sam's daughter. Stella Sam!
juttaschmi:The
energy games within the NWO, Carl ...
panta98:Proceeding.
...
panta98:For
example, let us look at Cosmic PHOSPHORUS, or Eosphoros, in classical Greek
mythology. It was associated with the planet Venus at dawn, with the "morning
star". Later, via Platonism, in Christian religions, Phosphorus, the herald
of the dawn, ideologically was transformed into Lucifer (Latin), the "Lightbearer".
panta98:And
from where did he get all the "match-sticks"? Well, in eternal sunny Heaven,
before his "fall", before becoming "Devilish Matter" and "Satanic", Lucifer
was Jesus Christ's beloved elderly brother, and as John Milton (1608-74)
portrayed him in "Paradise Lost", he was a very proud angelic figure.
panta98:Now
something for Iris: Also, "Lucifer" is the father of the "Hesperides",
of the guardians of the "golden apples". Now we know why Lucifer seduced
Eve with an uncloned, genetically not engineered "Golden Delicious apple".
Also why she devoured it with flagrance and fragance.
juttaschmi:I
like Venus, the morning star.
CarlzimC:St.
Michael (Blue Angel) - Apocalyptic energy.
panta98:Smile,
Carl!
juttaschmi:Venus
- stardust energy, Carl. ;-)
panta98:As
the story goes: he stole some "Light" from the heavenly "fiat lux", descended
upon the Earth, and bestowed it upon mortals; hence, he brought "Fire"
and "Brimstone" (Hell, Strife, Contradiction, Life) into Human Paradise.
panta98:Ideology
and Labour transformed him into his opposite; and, as you know, we all
hate devils, demons, pandemons and satanists.
juttaschmi:Don
Albert would be all enthusiastic about the stolen light - energy, anenergy
and "directions".
panta98:Certainly,
Jutta. ... Well, Cosmic, Luciferean PHOSPHORUS had another ideological
reflection in ancient Greek mythology. It was Prometheus, the God of Fire.
As a Titan, a Giant, he was an extreme trickster, a seducer, a real little
Devil.
CarlzimC:
8-) Islamic paradise includes green fields
- pro-environment.
panta98:Actually
his name interests us most: translated, Prometheus signifies "The Forethinker".
Excellent, an "intellectual labourer", a "master craftsman", a thinker,
who is directed towards the "future", towards "production"; and for that
you need "Fire", have to make Hay while the Sun shines, you need "Energy".
juttaschmi:The
Islamic Paradise sounds very modern to me, Carl!
panta98:Well,
where do you get "Fire"? Of course, in Heaven, in the Sun, in Cosmos! Again,
he just stole it, and brought it down to Earth, to serve labour purposes,
to be exploited economically, to be converted into Power, into Horse Power,
Labour Force, Watts. Even Jesus Christ, the younger brother of Lucifer,
said that he came to bring Fire, and that he wished that it would set the
earthly prairie on fire!
juttaschmi:The
energetic avantgarde thinker. Wow! What an origin of energy, my country!
panta98:Well,
I'm excellent too --- enlightening myself!! Jutta.
CarlzimC:Yep,
Jutta, except the part about the Haouri seducing men. No reference to what
happens to the women.
panta98:Exploited,
Robbed Cosmic Light or Fire became known as Natural "Energy", a subject
matter for natural scientists to study. As such, in his doctoral dissertation,
Marx declared Prometheus alias Lucifer to be the "first saint" in the "philosophic
calendar" of Labour.
juttaschmi:Perhaps
you can find out what happens to the women, Carl. ;-)
panta98:Just
now, Jutta. Pandora comes!!!
juttaschmi:A
most interesting connection, Franz!
panta98:For
Stella: ... But, Lucifer alias Prometheus is also related to productive
"Thanks-Giving", to Pandora, which means "All-Giving". Pandora is Eve -
the "first woman"; and, of course, as Mother, as Mother Nature, she is
a Luciferean femme diabolique, a femme fatale.
naranjahit:Seems
I´ve only some vacuum left in my brains - at least, this might be
useful for Bearden to extract some "new energy" from it - please proceed...
CarlzimC:Jutta,
I'm trying to learn what happens to the women. All religions, including,
Islam, have emancipatory elements.
panta98:Agreed,
Carl? About Pandora?
juttaschmi:Oh,
Oh, Iris! You will be our source of energy then. - Carl, all monotheistic
religions are Macho-religions.
CarlzimC:Yep,
Jutta
juttaschmi:That's
what they are all about. But proceed, Franz.
panta98:Billions
of men, especially Muslims, labouring men, machos, still "believe" in this;
in the "Information Age", in the "Third Millennium", they have not yet
surpassed the level of consciousness of primitive Greco-Roman mythology.
But, so what, it is a man's world!
panta98:Any
comments, Jutta, Stella, Iris? You agree with me? Or not?
juttaschmi:In
this man's world, man-power "powers on", until there is nothing left to
extract any power anymore.
CarlzimC:Agreed,
Franz.
juttaschmi:Sour
Power.
juttaschmi:Not
Flower Power.
naranjahit:
Unfortunately,
Jutta.
juttaschmi:Or
is it Bauer Power?
panta98:Proceeding.
.. it's getting worse ... Anyhow, Father Zeus was not happy at all with
Prometheus. In revenge, he ordered Hephaestus (another god of fire and
patron of craftsmen) to fashion a woman out of earth, Pandora, who was
endowed with a typical feminine attribute: curiosity.
CarlzimC:Sour
Power.
juttaschmi:It
sure was Bauer Power (Peasant's Power) in Feudalism.
CarlzimC:
Bauernbrot. Delicious.
panta98:She
had or found a jar -- the so-called Pandora's box -- containing all types
of misery and evil, ranging from greed to egoism, from AIDS to MAD COW
disease.
juttaschmi:Agreed,
Carl!!!!!
naranjahit:Yes!
Carl!
CarlzimC:And
Medusa?
panta98:As
we all know, curiosity killed the cat, and Pandora, like Schrödinger,
eventually let the Black Cat out of the Black Box. Well, suddenly the lid
fell back and shut down again, just before "Hope" could escape.
juttaschmi:This
is what I call "out of the box"!
panta98:The
moral of the story: ... That's why today still we "believe", we believe
in Hope, in the gift of the "Holy Ghost"; that is why we are so much "in-the-box"
and very christianlike still "hope" so much, for so much in and within
the labour world.
CarlzimC:Put
the white cat in the black box.
juttaschmi:So,
"Hope" is all that is left, Franz?
panta98:Yes,
Carl.
juttaschmi:What
do we do with "Hope"?! Can we derive energy from it?!
panta98:Surely
not, Jutta. Nonetheless, getting down to some fire, to fiery music; Wagner
gave us another orgonic clue concerning Heracleitus' panta rhei,
everything flows: "this world ... was ever, is now, and ever shall be an
ever-lasting Fire".
panta98:Just
note, Heracleitus had no problem with "time", also not with the self-generating
"causa sui", with the horror of physics, with the "perpetuum mobile",
with Cosmic Fire.
CarlzimC:
Götterdämmerung.
panta98:Yes,
it's coming, Carl!
juttaschmi:In
physics (as we know it), there is no perpetuum mobile, Franz. Exactly
because of the conservation-of energy - postulate.
panta98:Heracleitus
had no problem with that, Jutta.
CarlzimC:Apocalypse
soon - with non-lethal weapons.
panta98:Back
to Carl. Back to Wagner, to the "Twilight Of The Gods", to "Der Ring
des Nibelungen".
panta98:Stella,
know your culture!
CarlzimC:
Siegfried.
juttaschmi:According
to the Enegieerhaltungssatz, each and every "cause" contains a "value",
that stays the same in the following "consequence", yet transforms it's
appearance.
naranjahit:
Isolde.
juttaschmi:(Tante
Isolde?)
panta98:Tante
Isolde???
naranjahit:also!
panta98:In
1848, when the Communist Manifesto saw the light, Wagner began with his
famous work, Götterdämmerung, which took him a quarter
of a century to complete. In this tetralogy, we simply find just about
everything mentioned before.
juttaschmi:Tante
Isolde und Siegfried ... what a coincidence!
panta98:I
don't need to relate that. Carl knows all about it.
panta98:Stella,
the next cultural bomb-shell!
panta98:However,
ending our detective clues, we even could unravel "Armageddon" in Scandinavian
mythology and poetry. For example, in "Ragnarök" (Old Norse: "Doom
of the Gods"). The concept simply denotes the end of the world, of all
men, and of all gods -- a total global economic collapse, a failure of
all labour energy.
juttaschmi:With
all this culture here, people, I'm afraid I cannot cope ... *sigh*!
naranjahit:Same
here, mi pana ;-)
panta98: Jutta,
Pandemonium
is culturally well-informed, well in form; according to Icelandic legendary
sources, written in the late 10th century, the Ragnarök(Armageddon)
will be preceded by cruel winters and moral chaos. Giants (Clones) and
pan-demons (We) approaching from all points of the compass (of the globe)
will attack the gods (Labour & Alienation), who will meet them and
face death like "Desert Storm" heroes.
panta98:Because
of the radio-active mayhem, a result of the global economic collapse, the
sun will be darkened, the stars will vanish, and the earth will quake and
sink into the sea.
juttaschmi:Wow,
Franz. Tell me more about Ragnarök. Hyvää Paivää.
panta98:Afterwards,
emancipation would march in, the earth will rise again, the innocent will
return from the dead, and the hosts of the just will live in a hall roofed
with gold, in History.
panta98:Interesting
indeed! I added some home-made condiments! Summing up: obviously, for us,
"Energy" expresses all the cosmic, social, natural and historic Relations
(Bezuege) that are maltreated, perverted and exploited by Labour,
by Labouring Man, by Alienation.
juttaschmi:How
will the earth rise again, once they have catapulted it out of orbit?!
panta98:Jutta,
a historic "earth" on another orbit, in another Sphere. How "Energy" is
wasted, violated, exploited, that Bearden explained very well. The System,
Labour, Energy, are all fading into oblivion. That is why we suddenly have
an "energy crisis", a "labour crisis", a global "economic collapse".
juttaschmi:The
whole thing is a permanent crisis, Franz!
panta98:There
is nothing to repair anymore, to restructure, to save here. Bush is unemployed.
What is in the sewerage system, in the quagmire, just does not serve any
cosmic-ontic purpose anymore, except perhaps as stale, ineffective, obnoxious
dung, as manure.
panta98:Labour
tried to convert Fire into Energy, but its "battery" is totally flat, it
did everything possible to batter hellfire out of its own alienated core.
panta98:It
invented Barbarism, Savagery, Slavery, Terrorism and Globalism; its technological
innovations have reached mortal, lethal, fatal heights annihilating its
very own system. In Hegelian terms, by its own greedy merits, it deserves
to perish forever.
CarlzimC:Yet
despite the best scientists, the most advanced nuclear knowledge and uranium
supplied by Degussa Corp. from a mine in South West Africa, Hitler had
to give the atom bomb to the USA.
juttaschmi:An
example how "energy" has been and is being "succesfully applied" in the
form of weapons, Carl.
panta98: Iris,
coming to your "roast beef" ... For Heracleitus, the basic element is Fire,
but it is also the Universal Logos, is Reason, is Orgone, is that
what relates itself and all things, and that what is related by and to
zillions of other and another Spheres.
panta98:And,
since Fire not only has a life of its own but also relates itself and even
the horizons of the universes as well, this Heracleitean hylozoistic pantheism
logically points to multiverses and policosmoi, to a myriad of Fire Relations.
panta98:Now,
with "Bezug", with "Fire versus Energy", let us discuss the aforesaid,
in the context of Bearden's preoccupations. I am sure that my extensive
introduction was very informative and fundamentally thoughtworthy.
panta98:Well,
guys! It's your turn!!!
THE DEBATE SETS IN
juttaschmi:Excellent
introduction, Franz, if not to say, overwhelming! A myriad of aspects touched!
panta98:Thanks,
Jutta. You are a darling! Our Darling!!!
panta98:Stella
& iris? Still there? Did my introduction not give you food for thought?
naranjahit:Indeed,
as always a great introduction, Franz - and agreed to your comment ;-)
- Our problem here right now is on how to coomment further, please, Jutta,
Carl&Franz continue, we´ll try to join the boat!
juttaschmi:The
question is: Is natural, potential (and "at the same time" actual, real)
energy the same thing as "energy" as a consequence of labour?
juttaschmi:Bearden
clearly showed, how "energy" within the labour process (although he does
not formulate it as such) is a "destruction device".
juttaschmi:With
the current electrical technology, "energy" is being wasted in huge amounts,
and also the very devices, that produce energy, are being destroyed. You
get ten percent "energy" and have ninety percent waste and destruction.
panta98:Jutta,
Bearden and most scientists, except Don Albert, Reich and Tesla, all have
a labour connotation of Energy. they know no other concept in their formal-logical
"Chinese" Hen Kai Pan!! For the time being, I call natural, potential,
actual, real cosmic "energy" Fire, Emancipatory Fire! Energy
is the deformation, maltreatment, perversion of Cosmic Fire.
juttaschmi:Waste
and destruction is the consequence of the labour process all along, especially
in its current phase. Labour, physical and intellectual, and Capital, are
both being wasted and destroyed.
juttaschmi:Correctly
so, Franz. Bearden talks of energy in terms of "work".
panta98:They
all operate with the normal, classical physical concept of Matter and Energy.
juttaschmi:Note,
that also "value" is a central concept in physics. Yet, there is never
a "surplus value", as is the case in labour-economics!
panta98:Yes,
all of them have the "Holy Cow", Work, on their lips! They can't see anything
else, they just work, work. ... for them everything works, even the Universe,
even the Devil, even Jesus' Father!!!
CarlzimC:
Franz,
today, it's mad cow.
panta98:Well,
of that "energy" concept, I did not speak -- and, if I did, just as alienated,
exploited cosmic "Fire".
juttaschmi:So,
what about the solution Bearden is proposing? We have talked about this
in other chats, in terms of "free energy for all". (Free mad cows for all,
Carl!)
naranjahit:And
as such - as a destruction device - I understand the "improving" and acceleration
of investigation on energy as proposed by Bearden. Although he argues on
the need of some "out of the box" thinking, the task is still, in the final
analysis, to assure the functioning of the Labour Process, to overcome
and solve the "economic crises" and "destruction" of "civilization".
juttaschmi:Excellent
observation, Stellairis! That is exactly Bearden's limit!
panta98:D'accord!
Iris & Stella. Free Energy is not Energy. Energy as Labour Energy can
never be "free", never be emancipated. Energy (Power, Labour Power) and
Emancipation just do not go together.
juttaschmi:I
see no civilization at all! - I see barbarism.
naranjahit:So,
there we go again, we find something apparently very "near" to us, but
yet, it´s not the same...
CarlzimC:The
question is will Tesla free energy mantain the labor process or be emancipatory?
juttaschmi:I
give Bearden full credit, however, Stellairis. - The guy is pretty close.
- Good question, Carl. Excellent question!
panta98:You
cannot call an alienated, enslaved labour thing "free" or emancipated.
Then you are really loco, crazy!
panta98:"Free
Energy" is Fire! There is nothing more natural, sunny, cosmic and free
than Cosmic Fire! There is nothing more bound, wasted, violent, violated,
violating and violatable than Energy!
panta98:
Fire is the only thing which you cannot clone, cannot engineer genetically.
juttaschmi:Problem
is, the whole Tesla thing started out within the labour process, Carl.
CarlzimC:Tesla
energy naturally exists in our atmosphere and outer space-It can power
a natural emancipatory civillization at no cost.
panta98:Fire
was abused; Tesla's Fire can also be abused and exploited, when its "freedom",
its "emancipatory power" is taken from it, Carl. Once upon a time, water
and oxygen existed "freely", just like Tesla's energy, and now, we buy
them by the bottle! That is what I call violation, alienation of water
and air.
juttaschmi:And
as long as any of the central aspects of the labour process - destruction
of nature, economic exploitation, political domination, social discrimination
and human alienation remain untouched by "Tesla free Energy", it would
maintain the labour process.
naranjahit:Agreed,
Jutta. My remark was not meant in the sense to "discredit" Bearden. I do
give him full credit, too, in the sense that he sees the problems and limitations
e.g. of science very clearly and expresses his views in a way that even
a non-physicist can somehow get the bottom line. And here comes the connection
to one aspect of the introductory remarks of Franz: necessarily, ideology...
panta98: IIIIrrriiiss!!!
Sttteeelllaaa!!!
naranjahit:
...ja?
naranjahit:
Franz?
panta98:Ah!
There you are. An excellent remark!
CarlzimC:So
what is to be done to emancify Tesla free energy?
juttaschmi:Thanks,
Stellairis.
naranjahit:I
already told you that I have jet lag - probably even my brains scanned
into confusion, my dear ;-)
juttaschmi:The
central pillars of the labour process I mentioned above have to disappear,
Carl. Then, Tesla Free Energy makes emanicpatory sense.
panta98: Carl,
to see that it remains fiery, is Fire, and never convert itself, or that
it is being converted, into "Energy"! To see that it does not become energy,
and stay free, emancipated. That it is not converted into Labour Power,
into Labour Force!
CarlzimC:First
step, unleash human natural Reich energy, so people learn to use their
body energy for emancipation
juttaschmi:Please
proceed with the connection to one of the aspects of Franz' introductory
remarks, Stellairis.
panta98:That's
the point. Only an emancipated being and existence should relate to Tesla's
fire. The "people" is the problem, Carl. Only fiery "people" could relate
to fiery Emancipation.
panta98:Any
other thing, related to labour and exploitation, will abuse it, waste it,
destroy it.
CarlzimC:
Agreed,
Franz.
juttaschmi:Reich
has accomplished an impressive task in detecting and describing the orgone
"energy", Carl. Reich's Orgone is constructive, not destructive.
panta98:That's
what Bearden suggests that the USA, Bush and the global multi's should
do!
juttaschmi:So,
agreed on your suggestion, Carl.
CarlzimC:Imagine,
Bush's orgone energy
juttaschmi:Build
your own Orgone-Shield against the new electromagnetic weaponry.
panta98:First
step --- Homo sapiens sapiens must vanish from the Planet. I'm
no Homo Sapiens Sapiens!!!
juttaschmi:Forget
about copper and zinc caps.
CarlzimC:Yep,
Jutta
juttaschmi:They
are out of fashion anyway ...;-)
juttaschmi:Hey,
Stellairis: Which cap are you wearing tonight?
CarlzimC:Turn
on the microwave ovens - fight fire with fire
naranjahit:...
necessarily, ideology has to refer in a way to given "realities" and "relations"
- and so has Bearden with regard to the "loggics" beyond `traditional` laws
of Physics... The formal logic probably is exclusively questioned in the
field of Physics, -- I´m not sure though.
naranjahit:BA-Blankets,
Jutta
naranjahit:
;-)
juttaschmi:We
have an old-fashioned firewood oven, dating from the 19th century, Carl.
No microwave, unfortunately.
panta98: I'm
wearing a "black cap", meet me at the executioner's festival. You are fighters!
Why fight? Did we not have enough fights already?
panta98:Is
fight not labour? Is it not hard to fight? Is Fighting not Hard Work? Wastage
of Fire? Imagine the wastage and work of two "World Wars"!
juttaschmi:Thanks
for the "connection", Stellairis.
CarlzimC:Formal
logics was questioned by many physicists including David Bohm.
panta98:And,
Carl. What do they suggest that it should be replaced with?
juttaschmi:Yet
I have not heard of anybody, who would have suggested an amplification
of Aristotelian Logics, as Bearden proposes, Carl.
juttaschmi:The
man has solutions at hand. We have to give him this credit. A shame, that
Bearden would not have gone further, and developed a multi-logic, such
as Pandemonium Logic.
CarlzimC:Bohm
and others stressed intuition - led to Chaos and superstring theory.
juttaschmi:With
his out-of-the-box logic, Bearden has come pretty far. I often recall Don
Albert, when reading through Bearden's papers.
panta98: Step
Two: To understand, to develop a pan-demon logics, you have to
transcend your homo nature and existence first, you have to stop working,
to labour.
CarlzimC:Bearden
is a CIA guy - can't go too far out
juttaschmi:Intuition,
too, has to be based on something. If it is "opposed" to logic, intuition
has to be non-logical. Non-logic in the "logical sense" of the word, of
course!
panta98:What
is the function of Chaos and Superstring theory in contemporary global
production? Do they criticise labour, do they want to reform, to save capitalism?
A CIA guy is a watch-dog of Labour, Capital & Profits: we have some
billions of them performing this very job; hence what is valid for Bearden
is also valid for the Nobel prize Winner or anybody who defends the system,
anybody living just around the corner.
juttaschmi:
I
doubt if these theories criticise labour, Franz.
CarlzimC:Bohm
and others called multi-logics intuition (misnomer).
juttaschmi:Stellairis,
have you ladies gotten strangled up in the superstring now?!
CarlzimC:Violin
strings.
panta98:if
so, then they are quintessentially formal logical; if not, then they will
have serious problems in official education and academic circles. As far
as I know, they were born in that very system, and they affirm it.
juttaschmi:Thanks,
this sounds logical to me, Carl.
naranjahit:
strangled
in violin strings indeed!
panta98:Without
strings attached, what is the novelty, the innovation of these postmodern
theories?
juttaschmi:Honestly,
I don't know, Franz. Carl, do you know?
panta98:Are
not Chaos books, recordings and videos on sale?
panta98:
What's for sale, is on the marker, is formal logical!
juttaschmi:In
physics, you might roughly sum the debates up as "determinism" versus "indeterminism"
- philosophically spoken, "system" versus "oopen system".
panta98:Who
ever developed an "open system" in the labour system?
juttaschmi:I
don't know, if they have come to debate determinism AND indeterminism,
or better even, neither determinism nor indeterminism yet.
panta98: Open,
my foot, any labour system or sub-system is as closed as the "gospel truth"!
naranjahit:
Poetry!
juttaschmi:As
long as they haven't done so, I think they are still stuck in the labour
process. Full force, full power, full sour bauer power.
panta98: Poetry,
Stella or Iris? Which poet, and I'll know 't!
naranjahit:
Yes,
know thyself ;-)
CarlzimC:
Sufi
poetry.
panta98: But,
"know thyself",
that's not poetry, it was Apollo's famous oracular self-abusement, auto-amusement,
like Hegel's sexy, narcissist World Spirit! Perhaps, "poetic" in
this sense!
naranjahit:It
was the answer to your question, Franz...
CarlzimC:Thusness'
- Nasrudin.
panta98: A
Spirit which only says: Love Thyself!
CarlzimC:The
lady or the tiger?
panta98:Carl,
what does Sufi poetry say about Formal Logics, about "Energy"?
CarlzimC:Aesop's
fables.
CarlzimC:Sufi
poetry = multi-logics - unpredictable events.
juttaschmi:Did
Tesla operate with the (closed system) or open system premise,
Carl? Above, you said something like there is no conservation of energy
law. The conservation of energy law, certainly, applies in "closed" systems
only (hypotheses). Did Tesla assume an "open system"?
panta98:Aesop
came nearer to the matter: but he still was suffering under a slave-master
mentality! Just like Hegel's Weltgeist!
CarlzimC:Tesla
- open system.
juttaschmi:Thanks,
Carl. (Hegel had a closed AND open system!)
panta98:If
the cage is open, the labour birdies would fly away, Jutta. This openness,
openmindedness, labour can never allow; free energetic babes? Oh,
no!
CarlzimC:
Hegel didn't produce electricity.
juttaschmi:If
the cage were open, Franz, either the labour birdies wouldn't notice it,
or they would want to go back into their cage! - Shame Hegel didn't produce
electricity, Carl!
panta98:But,
he electrified ideology, Marx and Brecht.
juttaschmi:Yes,
he certainly electrified many a formal logical thinker, Franz.
CarlzimC:Agreed,
Franz.
panta98:Hegel
is absolutely "good" for business, for goods, to buy, sell and possess
for "good".
CarlzimC:
I meant that as a philosopher, Hegel wasn't
restrictd like an engineer - Tesla.
juttaschmi:Hegel
would have been an outstanding out-of-the-box physicist, if he had pursued
physics in the first place, Carl.
CarlzimC:Agreed,
Jutta.
panta98:Well,
Kant did survive as natural scientist and philosopher.
panta98:The
only small detail was: He never left Koenigsberg, and never told his students
what he really thought!
juttaschmi:Engels
had tried to pick up the threads of Hegel's Logic in his "Dialectics of
Nature". Yet all this never really found a corresponding interest in the
world of science and physics.
CarlzimC:Heisenberg
was a great physicist and philosopher.
panta98:You
see, what I mean, Carl.
juttaschmi:Agreed,
Carl. Heisenberg was both, a physicist and philosopher. Thought a lot about
Plato!
panta98:But,
guys, is Armageddon (Revelations, xvi.16)coming
in 2007 or not? I want to prepare myself for "Doomsday". Just as I prepared
myself for the year 2000!
panta98:You
read and studied Bearden. What do you think?
juttaschmi:Heisenberg
compared the Elementarteilchen (elementary particles) with the regular
bodies in Plato's Timaios. He spoke of them as the "Urbilder",
that determine the further happenings, the events in the universe.
naranjahit:
Franz,
or has "Armageddon" rather been going on "all the time" "at all places"
"since millennia"?
juttaschmi:Note,
how heavy Plato weighed and weighs in Physics!!
CarlzimC
has left the room.
naranjahit:Interesting
point you raised, Jutta!
panta98: Jutta,
and in Contemporary Education, in general. Proceeding, it is not a nice
thought, that poor Stella, Iris, Carl and Khalid should still study, even
studying Arabic and Chinese, when all would be for the cats and dogs, when
everything would be over, in 6 years at the most!
naranjahit:
:-) Franz
juttaschmi:AOL
says: "CarlzimC's software does not support Chat. As a result, this buddy
can not accept your Chat room invitation!!!!!!!! -???????
panta98:I
sent Carl an invitation! AOL LOVES US!!
naranjahit:
Here
comes Carl...
juttaschmi:Franz,
don't spoil my Cognac with your Armageddon now!!!!
panta98:I
see.
juttaschmi:Free
Cognac for the world!
juttaschmi:Emancipatory
Cognac for the world! *hic*
naranjahit:It
could be over `` tomorrow`, too, Franz. - Jutta salud! Iris will get a
nice vodka after the chat ;-)
panta98:Free
Stella Eier-Likor -- Ponche!
juttaschmi:Free
Ponche for the World! - However stay away from you personal Flying Saucer,
after having taken Stella's homemade Ponche Crema .... *crash*
juttaschmi:Save
your souls, guys. Armaggedon is near.
naranjahit:saved.
juttaschmi:saved.
panta98:Saved!
panta98:S.O.S.
juttaschmi
has left the room.
panta98:OK,
I'll invite you anew; I close here now too!
naranjahit
has left the room.
REBOOT, RENEW ...
You have just entered room "juttaschmi Chat23."
juttaschmi:I
told Stellairis to log in as Einai2000
panta98:just
inviting them as Einai2000
CarlzimC:OK
panta98:My
question was: Is there a slight possibility that Bearden could be "correct"
with his prognosis?
panta98:Reading
his paper, the guy seems to be very serious.
CarlzimC:Franz,
partly correct.
juttaschmi:If
I remember correctly, Stellairis said, that Bearden's prognosis was true
all along "history", Franz.
panta98:In
how far, Carl?
CarlzimC:Up
to the point where there'll be no Armageddon.
panta98:Yes,
but he is talking about a specific part of his "truth", about the immediate
labour formal-logical future, about the following 6 years!
CarlzimC:Major
wars, though.
juttaschmi:Armageddon
for the African Slaves in the Transatlantic Slave Trade; Armageddon for
the poor peasants, property of the feudal lords, Armageddon for the many
women in the "dark middle age", that were burnt on the stake as "witches"
(still functioning PSI-factors), Armageddon for the Jews in World War II,
etc. etc.
panta98:Yes,
trulyso, Jutta, however, he talks about immediate nuclear wars within the
next five years. These would reduce all that you have mentioned to the
mortal pain of a "black mamba snake-bite", would be an unimaginable terror
and horror of billions! How probable could that be?
Einai2000:What
is not clear to us, is, based on which parameters he comes to his specification.
The question however is, if there is really any difference to the Armageddon
which Jutta illustrated just now...
juttaschmi:
Armageddon
for the Palestinians in the never ending "Mideast Conflicts"..
panta98: Also,
we spoke about the "future labour-killing" of 5 billion people, of "useless
cattle" by the year 2050. How probable is this, within the context of Bearden's
scenario? Apartheid and the Soviet Union had their Armageddon already!
What about India versus Pakistan?
Why not the USA and China soon? Are they implacable, infallible, not touched
by any Apocalyse?
CarlzimC:False
prediction - The USA has weapons that will immobilize nuclear weapons.
juttaschmi:Armageddon
for the Wretched of the Earth, Armageddon for the early Christians, that
have been thrown to the lions ...
juttaschmi:Armageddon
for Mother Nature, ever since "Homo Sapiens Sapiens" saw daylight!
Einai2000:Exactly,
Jutta.
juttaschmi:Armageddon
for me, as I see the level of my Cognac bottle sink towards cero ....
panta98: As
always, as he did in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Big Brother will always care
for us, for our health, our vanity and sanity; he will protect us from
all evil, from atomic bombs, from the Divine Wrath of Sodom and Gomorah!
I understand the permanent crisis and killings of the labour process across
the millennia; but this is a specific era, when the chickens do come
home to roost, so what do we think about Bearden's "prophecy"?
juttaschmi:
Hehehehehhehehehehehee!
CarlzimC:
Different
today - Big space exploration/colonization program ahead.
Einai2000:Armageddon
throughout the education process... bombing, atomizing the brains.
Einai2000:
Jutta
:-)))))))))))
heilandzack!
juttaschmi:
Armageddon
for "extraterrestrial life", as
homo labour swings himself into
his spaceships to conquer space!
panta98:Exactly
Space Exploration and Colonization or Settlement form part of the solution
which Bearden offers. These you cannot accomplish with fire-wood, horsepower,
petroleum!
CarlzimC:Little
Armageddons - like high school murders = mind control in USA.
panta98:He
said "vacuum energy" should be used for such enterprises.
juttaschmi:Exactly
and sadly so, Carl!
CarlzimC:AIDS,
Mad Cow Disease.
juttaschmi:
That
is Armageddon, too, Carl. Agreed!
Einai2000:Foot-
and Mouth- and Brain-Desease...
CarlzimC:Vacuum
energy is ready to be used.
juttaschmi:Carl,
please explain further.
panta98: Obviously,
Bearden would not be the first to know about Armageddon by 2007; surely,
the "Illuminati", the NASA, the Pentagon, know this since decades.
juttaschmi:
Is
Vacuum energy ready to be used in the USA?
panta98:Are
there any signs that they do know it; what are they preparing?
CarlzimC:
It's
been used, e.g., in flying saucers.
CarlzimC:
In particle beam weapons.
CarlzimC:
In colonies on the Moon and Mars
panta98:
The only problem is that if you tell anybody this, you will be declared
crazy, Carl. It's like convincing anybody that you saw Manimal changing
into a Black Panther. Nobody would believe you! Why all the earthquakes?
The typhoons, the epidemics, the cloning and genetic engineering like crazy?
CarlzimC:Mind
control, Franz.
panta98:Why
the UN, and what it is doing? Why the Mideast Conflict? Why away with the
Soviet Union now?
panta98:Why
dismantle Apartheid now?
panta98:Why
non-smoking? Why "flex appeal" now?
panta98:Why
not Armageddon Now? Why waiting? Waiting For Godot?
juttaschmi:
Is
Vacuum energy ready to be used for "commercial" purposes, Carl? If not,
why not? (- It probably does not sell, I know, because it is "for peanuts",
as Bearden says ...)
CarlzimC:Franz,
free flow of global capital and stability of global financial markets.
panta98:Why
do millions die of AIDS in the Sub-Sahara within one year?
CarlzimC:NWO
control and global/economic stability.
panta98:Why
do all drug companies connected to AIDS sue Mbeki?
juttaschmi:
Stability
= equilibrium = conservation of energy ....
panta98: Why
was Kabila killed now, in the rainy forest?
juttaschmi:It
is rain forest, Franz, not rainy forest
;-)
panta98:Well,
Jutta, I can see clearly now, the rain is gone!
CarlzimC:
Profit,
Franz.
juttaschmi:
...
= "closed system"
panta98:Why
is the OPEC nervous about its future sales of oil?
CarlzimC:The
politics and economics are closed systems.
juttaschmi:Exactly
so, Carl.
juttaschmi:Yes,
you might say so, dear Franz!
panta98:There
are my "why's" and they all point to something immediate!
panta98:Why
all the merging like mad, like a British mad cow?
CarlzimC:
Mideast
is nervous because ether particles will soon replace oil as primary energy
source.
panta98:What
does this economic rush say politically? Socially, humanly?
panta98:The
NWO has no energy crisis, and they know it, so what's its problem?
panta98:What
Bearden suggests, they could do in months, with all the trillions they
have.
CarlzimC:
All
related - In France, Muslims afraid of Mad Cow Disease affecting their
animal slaughter rites.
panta98:That's
not their real problem.
Einai2000:What
then, Franz? Do they seek for an "explanation", a covering up of their
"real problem"?
Einai2000:Could
you please explain?
panta98:Iris'
question: Like in the past, can the system, can Labour, can capitalism
rehabilitate itself again, save itself again?
CarlzimC:The
NWO thinks they'll lose control when intellectual labor predominates over
physical labor worldwide.
panta98:That's
what I suspect. perhaps we are sleepy, and we don't see the dead forest,
only depleted trees.
juttaschmi:If
the system is to "save" itself, that is, to survive for another couple
of decades, billions will have to be extinguished. The third world war
has been going on for long already, and nobody has taken notice of it.
juttaschmi:"Crisis"
of the system inevitably means destruction of labour force and capital.
panta98:Or,
as Marx said, did the Hexenmeister or his Lehrling set loose
forces beyond the control of the system, of the NWO itself? Will "free
energy" itself destroy everything?
CarlzimC:Jutta,
the NWO realizes that racism will destroy Capitalism.
juttaschmi:I
can see millions of labour forces, predominantly physical labour forces,
being extinguished day by day.
CarlzimC:
Not
consumerism, as Marcuse thought.
juttaschmi:I
always liked Marx' Hexenmeister - Parable very much, Franz.
panta98: Is
its problem not "Un-Control", and we are still discussing about "Mind Control",
"Body Control" -- this problem is already obsolete, archaic, as far as
the system is concerned. Particle beam, for what? To stop the ghosts of
the underworld set loose by technology? Capital is not afraid of ghosts,
not even of the "spectre" which haunted Europe.
juttaschmi:Who
consumes, Carl? A tiny little elite of intellectual labour force still
falls under the category "consumer"; and probably the very capitalists
themselves have entered this category, as absurd as it seems.
CarlzimC:So
the NWO is limiting racism superficially as eliminating Apartheid in S.
Africa, but mintains racism for cheap labor.
juttaschmi:(Iris,
consider writing a paper on : "Who consumes"? instead of "who governs?"
...)
juttaschmi:Agreed,
Carl.
Einai2000:Who
governs = who consumes ,probably.
panta98: Racism
is the Superstructural Ideology of the NWO, although nobody mentions "racism"
in the USA anymore. I made a very interesting comment before, please, voice
you opinions too.
panta98:
I post it again:
Is its problem not "Un-Control",
and we are still discussing about "Mind Control", "Body Control" -- this
problem is already obsolete, archaic, as far as the system is concerned.
Particle beam, for what? To stop the ghosts of the underworld set loose
by technology? Capital is not afraid of ghosts, not even of the "spectre"
which haunted Europe.
juttaschmi:Good
question, Franz.
CarlzimC:However,
this will tear the NWO apart, because global villiages on Earth and space
colonies require cooperation of all races participating.
CarlzimC:
Racism will spell the doom of Capitalism.
juttaschmi:
And
capitalism the doom of racism, Carl. If one dies, so does the other, and
viceversa.
CarlzimC:Agreed,
Jutta.
juttaschmi:Franz,
I have no answer to your question.
Einai2000:
Franz,
so you are suspecting that they are building up and spreading "Scheinprobleme"
to cover up ---but what? Sorry, I don´t know...
juttaschmi:What
is Un-Control? Do you mean the present, world wide state of affairs, if
you speak of "Un-Control "?
panta98:What
exactly is the difference between classical "colonization" and current
"Space Colonization"? Is it "colonization" at all? Does it take place in
"space"? In "time"? Who knows, perhaps the very NWO has no "time" and "space"
problems anymore, perhaps they never had! Who invented "race", "space"
and "time" colour bars, barriers? And the inventor to be able to invent
knows what, why and for what he is inventing something. The problem arises
when he loses "control" over his invention.
panta98:And
what would happen, if we too are "missing the boat", thinking about
the "energetic" race, space and time "problems" of Labour?
CarlzimC:Franz,
space communities on planets, moons and large asteroids,
not colonization as on Earth
CarlzimC:
No missing the boat. All are related.
juttaschmi:I
would say, the present state of affairs and the tendency of the system
point towards world fascism on the political level. That is my answer to
your question, why particle weapons and all that Technology of Political
Control exist.
panta98:Does
the system not suggest to us, to occupy our minds with such problems, when
completely other problems are on the new world order? Apartheid was not
dismantled because Mandela's ANC won the political struggle, or because
at last the "white man", in this case, Frederik De Klerk, had a change
of heart. South Africa became a "problem" to the NWO, and it never told
the world public the truth about its real problem there.
panta98:The
same applies to the Soviet Union. There was simply nothing to
exploit, to dominate, and to
discriminate in a "classical colonial" style in South Africa anymore. The
whole of Africa does not even have the continental budget of one single
huge multi-national company anymore; Africa itself has a 1% relevance on
the world market. The Soviet Union was just another "white man's burden";
and the communist bogey-man fraud had to vanish! Nothing about democracy,
nothing about fighting communism, nothing about eliminating racism! Globalization
had no use for them anymore.
juttaschmi:
Yes,
Franz.
CarlzimC:
Agreed,
Jutta, but fascism is the last stage of Capitalism.
juttaschmi:Fascism
is the open face of Capitalism, Carl.
juttaschmi:
Democracy
is the make up.
CarlzimC:Agreed,
Jutta.
panta98:Who
are still out of control? Listen to the billions, look what they are doing?
Are they not totally controlled? Do they do anything against money, capital,
exploitation, domination, social discrimination, inhumaneness. One must
be more blind than a "bat" not to see all this!
CarlzimC:
Totally
controlled.
panta98:The
NWO has no "control" problems. At least, this is how I see the matter.
juttaschmi:On
the one hand, I should say "the masses" are totally under control, Franz.
On the other hand, situations might occur, where the internalized ideology,
mind control, is not strong enough, and people start to mass protest and
to riot.
panta98: Jutta,
the NWO has other problems. What to do with its age-old atomic reactors?
CarlzimC:
Note
that Mideast events follow a pattern like Clockwork lemon.
panta98: What
to do with its accumulated toxic waste?
juttaschmi:Exactly
so, Carl. Well expressed.
CarlzimC:No
deviation from the pattern.
juttaschmi:The
Metropolitan Countries export their toxic waste to Africa, and their mad
cows to Latin America, Franz. No problem for the NWO.
panta98: What
to do with -- not the mad cows -- but the billions of controlled "crazy
cattle"?
Einai2000:
Jutta,
Franz&Carl, sorry, but we gotta go and sleep now, it was a pleasure
to join you. Please, you continue with the chat and send us the transcript.
juttaschmi:They
shoot their trash into earth's orbit, and sometime it comes down, like
the MIR station - another Armageddon for the ones that will be crashed
by it.
CarlzimC:
Snow
in Northeast USA, but not too bad in my area.
Bye! Bye!
panta98:Nandi,
my daughter, calls on AOL too.
CarlzimC:Montauk,
LI, home of particle beam weapons
Einai2000:See
you next Tuesday, then. At least, Stella will join you. I don´t know
as yet if I will have the possibility to do so, keep you informed.
juttaschmi:Watch
out for those particle beam weapons, Carl.
juttaschmi:Okay,
Iris.
panta98:OK!
Bye Iris & Stella. I'll send you the complete chat!
juttaschmi:Folks,
it was a great pleasure.
CarlzimC:OK,
Franz. Dinner bell is ringing, and I'm hungry
juttaschmi:Carl,
guten Appetit!!
CarlzimC:Fran
sends her regards to al/l
panta98:Totsiens!
Einai2000:Pandemonium-dreams
all!
panta98:Sa
ku bona!
juttaschmi:Chicken
and Pasta - count me in! ;-)
panta98:Hamba
Ka Kuhle!
juttaschmi:Mahlzeit.
juttaschmi:Agreed,
Bed for all! Ciao Bella!
CarlzimC:Shukran
Sadik (Thanks, friends)
panta98:Bella
chaaaoo!!!
juttaschmi:Shukran
Sadik!
juttaschmi:Goie
Naacht.
juttaschmi
has left the room.
Einai2000 has left the room.
CarlzimC has left the room.
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