Carl (Teaneck,
USA)
Juergen (Fränkische
Schweiz, Germany)
Jutta (Merida,
Venezuela)
Stella (Mainz,
Germany)
Matt (Philadelphia,
USA)
Franz (Merida, Venezuela)
Space, Time, Labour, Emancipation XI
Emancipatory Fire versus
Labour Energy!
Natural Human Slaughter Across The Ages!
27th March, 2001
SLIGHTLY EDITED, ORIGINAL VERSION
( Please take
the remaining typographic errors as Pandemonium Greetings;
it absorbs too much valuable "time" to correct them all! Chats, by their
very nature, are not perfect scientific treatises.)
http//franzjutta.org
franzjutta@cantv.net
http://www.franzjutta.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SAYING: HI!
You have just entered room "panta98
Chat15."
naranjahit has entered the room.
Iroll245 has entered the room.
panta98:Hi!
Inviting the others!
Iroll245:Thank
you very much, and buenas tardes, Franz and Jutta
juttaschmi
has entered the room.
juttaschmi has left the room.
panta98:Jutta
has some keyboard problem.
panta98:Just
be patient for a while, please.
naranjahit:
Hi all, Jutta, Franz, Jürgen.
Iroll245:
Another
German night-owl?? Stella oder Iris? Hallöchen jedenfalls!
juttaschmi
has entered the room.
panta98:Stella,
Juergen, Hi!
panta98:Hi!
Jutta!
juttaschmi:Hi!
Everybody! I have a serious problem with my keyboard; it gets stuck!
Hence, I will have serious problems to chat. ..............
panta98:I'll
start just now!
naranjahit:
Ok, proceed Franz!
Iroll245:
Yes,
do so.
panta98:I'll
invite someone, who wants to join our chat!
naranjahit:
Wow, new hornet?
naranjahit:
Welcome!
Iroll245:
Carl
is still offline???!!!
INTRODUCING "GermanicWarlord"
GermanicWarlord has entered the room.
GermanicWarlord:
Anyone
here?
panta98: Germanic
Warlord, please introduce yourself!
panta98:
Stella, please invite juttaschmi again.
naranjahit:
Ok.
GermanicWarlord:
My
name is Matt, and I just though I would join in on your exchange of ideas.
panta98:Excellent,
Matt. Please choose a colour and BOLD; so that I could read you better.
juttaschmi
has entered the room.
naranjahit:
Hi. Matt.
Iroll245:Hi,
Matt
juttaschmi:
0--`1891890-=`2345677710-14890-=`235`23456777778`234567`No chance
juttaschmi:
ke`123456yboard eror`123456
THE "SLAUGHTER" COMMENCES
panta98:OK!
Folks, I'll give a short introduction.
GermanicWarlord:
Is
this better?
panta98: Thanks.
panta98:You
can interrupt and ask questions anytime!
GermanicWarlord:
Ok!
juttaschmi:
Sorry folks, my keyboard is going mad.
panta98: I
would like to comment just on the "historic" humane slaughter and the butchery
of humanity. At whim, I will just fish some bloodthirsty piranhas out of
the 'historic" pond of labour.
naranjahit:
No problem, Jutta, just stay here!
juttaschmi:
Ok,
Franz.
juttaschmi:`1234567890-=I'l`l
stay, Stella.
Iroll245:
Fine.
panta98:Millennia
ago, at the eve of labour, of production, life was not socially organized
and so controlled as nowadays.
juttaschmi:
Franz,
proceed, please. I'll try to solve this problem -- no guarantee!
juttaschmi
has left the room.
panta98: In
the so-called "primitive" societies, human eating, drinking, leisure, pleasure
and sexual procreation were guided by other forces, inter alia,
by natural-socio-historic relations, by "trial-and-error", by "chaos theory",
by paranormal activity, by parapsychological events and by psi-factors.
GermanicWarlord:
Like
the ancient Germanic tribes?
panta98:Yes
Matt, the Greeks called them Barbarians!
panta98:The
first "massacres", "butchery" and "slaughtering" occurred when Labour,within
its own spatial and temporal parameters, developed itself to a higher form
of alienation, toward what Marxists call the "division of labour".
panta98:As
there did not exist as yet a "bogey-man", Capital, we could safely say
that Labour "contradicted" itself, thus producing its own Affirmation and
Negation; and then it split itself up again, "divided" itself into the
two historically "non-related" elements of its infamous dualistic Existence:
Physical Labour, Intellectual Labour.
naranjahit:
Jürgen, please invite Jutta she does not get my invitations.
panta98: Any
comments
Iroll245:Ay-ay!
GermanicWarlord:
Yes
... is this about the social classes? Upper working and lower classes?
panta98: Yeah!
But, in those days it was still the high priests versus the common,
co-operativist and collectivist folk.
GermanicWarlord:
Define "those days".
panta98: Before
"civilization", in the so-called "primitive modes of production".
naranjahit:
Franz, please invite Jutta, she does not get our invitations.
panta98: Stella,
invite Jutta!
GermanicWarlord:
Ok, I get ya.
juttaschmi has entered the room.
juttaschmi: Proceed, Franz.
panta98:Repeating .... As there did not exist as yet a "bogey-man", Capital, we could safely say that Labour "contradicted" itself, thus producing its own Affirmation and Negation; and then it split itself up again, "divided" itself into the two historically "non-related" elements of its infamous dualistic Existence: Physical Labour, Intellectual Labour.
panta98: Hence, this was reflected formal-logically in its ideological superstructure as "A" and "Non-A", as Spirit and Matter, as Intellectual Labour and Physical Labour, as Alienation, as being alienated from true, real historic relations, that is, alienated from the relation: Nature a n d Society AND History.
juttaschmi:
OK!
GermanicWarlord:
I get it.
panta98:Fine,
Jutta.
juttaschmi:
Continue,
Franz.
panta98: Certainly,
this was the "first" human massacre, driving "Man" out of its natural-social
"paradise", thereafter to earn his living, to satisfy his needs, by "the
sweat of his brow", by Labour. Excellent! What is Man? Ecce homo!
(Pontius Pilate) What a Heraclitean agon; what a "paragon
of animals" (Shakespeare)! Man, the Death Agony of Animals, of Sheep
and Cattle!
panta98:Comments?
juttaschmi:
Man
is the Cancer of the Uni-verse!
Iroll245:
So
far - no comments!
juttaschmi:
So
to speak.
panta98: D'accord,
Jutta!
naranjahit:
No comments.
panta98:OK!
Proceeding ....
juttaschmi:
Please.
panta98:The
exploitation and domination began with the domestication of animals, of
dogs, of herds and flocks, with making them feel "at home" in the future
labour process; collecting natural roots, berries, hunting animals, insects,
worms, fishes, all of them had to believe in this domestic devouring slaughter.
panta98:Buen
Apetito, Stella!
juttaschmi:
Like
Woody Allen once said: The world is one big "restaurant"!
GermanicWarlord:
Even
in ancient times without the introduction of labor and organized society
or government, man still had to use the sweat of his brow to live; whether
by hunting or farming, or making war ... it was far from paradise.
panta98:Yeah!
Jutta. Guten Apetit!
juttaschmi:
With
"homo sapiens" being the gourmet.
naranjahit:
Mhm, Greetings from ALDI ;-)
juttaschmi:
Agreed,
Germanic Warlord - paradise lost!
juttaschmi:
Stella:
long live ALDI! ;-)
panta98: And
from McDonald's! McMad-Burger!!!
panta98:
Around this never-ending greed, all in the name of the survival of the
species, even at the cost of all other species, Man, the Intellectual Labourer,
developed tools, technology, produced his real self: the two "souls" in
his "social" breast. He considered himself "Master Of The Universe", and
that Divine Creation
happened just for him, for his
selfish, greedy banquet!
GermanicWarlord:
But
I would argue that life is easier now than it was in ancient times.
panta98: Yes,
Easier
to die, Matt, Harder to stay alive!
juttaschmi:
Technology
as an expression of the non-relation: society-nature.
Iroll245:Basically,
physically, I'd say.
panta98: Anyhow,
proceeding .....
juttaschmi:
Technology
as "nature turned against nature", as Hegel said.
panta98: His
"intellect" , inter alia, developed morals, ancestral habits, rites,
customs, magic and religion; in other words, an ideological superstructure,
the origin of "education",of "thinking and thought", of future Body and
Mind Domination, of the Politeia, of the State.
GermanicWarlord:
What about that? .... that is some of the things
we are missing today.
panta98: Juergen,
comments?
Iroll245:
You're
simply right!
juttaschmi:
Ideology
as the "rationalisation" of the destruction of nature, of economic exploitation,
political domination, social discrimination and human alienation.
panta98: Yes,
that is what we, the Crew, want to resucitate; and you are doing fine,
Matt!
GermanicWarlord:
And
the aqusition of wealth?
GermanicWarlord:
The
crew?
CarlzimC has entered the room.
panta98: By
the way, thanks for visiting us, all by yourself!!!
juttaschmi:
Hi,
Carl.
panta98:Hi!
Carl!
panta98:
Proceeding. ....
GermanicWarlord:
I
find it an honor.
naranjahit:
Hi, Carl!
Iroll245:
Hi,
finally, good evening, Carl.
panta98: A
"mode of production", a "world outlook", a "way of life", a modus vivendi
et operandi ensued. A Man's World. A World of Labour.
CarlzimC:
Hi, all.
panta98:Carl,
I just will finish this short introduction, then you could make your planned
contribution.
juttaschmi:
Labour
makes the world go mad ...
juttaschmi:
Mad
cows, mad sheep, mad keyboards ...
CarlzimC:
Who is GermanicWarlord?
panta98:No,
Jutta, make the world go round, instead of "flat".
juttaschmi:
Labour
makes the world go square!
GermanicWarlord:
Is
literacy, are books, and music considered to be products of modern
labor and thus an evil to you?
panta98: Firstly,
they are "products" -- that's the "evil". Carl, he is a visitor on our
web pages, who interested himself in our chats!
juttaschmi:
It
is not a matter of "good" or "evil", Matt.
panta98: And,
he's doing fine, Carl!
panta98:
He feels "at home"!
panta98:
Proceeding ...
CarlzimC:I
will add GermanicWarlord to my AOL list.
GermanicWarlord:
Then, what are they? ... because I could not
live without those articles.
juttaschmi:
They
are neither good nor evil.
panta98: Yes,
Matt, as Jutta says: neither "good" nor "evil", and you could safely excel,
surpass without them!
panta98: Proceeeding
... Collectivism and co-operativism were slaughtered, fragmented. Forever,
"Love Thy Neighbour As Thyself!" went down the Labour drain of egoism,
greed, wrath and hatred. Social Discrimination, Xenophobia, Race Hatred,
Platonic apartheid, Racism, all resulted; nobody remembered the
pre-Christian moral principles anymore: ...
CarlzimC:Willkommen,
GermanicWarlord!
GermanicWarlord:
Danke.
panta98: All
add GWL please, by clicking the right mouse on his name; do likewise,
Matt.
juttaschmi:
You
just keep on enjoying your "articles", Matt!
juttaschmi:No
problem with that. -0-18=9`1234567890-`1234567890--0-`1234567890-=
GermanicWarlord:i
I have done so before.
GermanicWarlord:
Ok,
good.
panta98: Jutta's
keyboard is running wild again, she will try to fix it up somehow!
Now, let us look at a cultic
and priestly "law" presented in Exodus, in the Manual Of The
Priests, the Third Book of Moses: ...
panta98: Quoting
... "The stranger who sojourns with you
shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself."
[Holy Bible, Old Testament, Leviticus (the
Latin Vulgate title) 19:34].
juttaschmi:Sorry
`1234567890-=keyboard!
juttaschmi
has left the room.
GermanicWarlord:
Juttaschmi
keeps getting problems,
panta98:Members
were torn from their communities; the human species became atomized, egotized,
was torn apart, was formal logized. Progressively, a race of marauding
monsters, of pillaging butchers, of imperialist blood-suckers was created;
chattel slavery, cattle slavery, cutlers, cutlass and cutlets were born.
CarlzimC:Franz,
will you invite Jutta?
juttaschmi
has left the room.
panta98:Yes,
I invited her.
GermanicWarlord:
Weren't
the ancient tribes wandering bedouins and were also violent?
CarlzimC:
In the USA, in the 1930's, livestock were burned to control farmers.
panta98:Yes,
"violent" according to our norms.
CarlzimC:
OK, Franz.
naranjahit:
Sorry, guys. My Lap is also running wild - problems here.
Iroll245:
But
domestication of animals can surely not be the only reason for that change
in man, Franz.
panta98:Of
course not, Juergen. It was the result of progressive economic exploitation
of nature, of dominating her, and of political domination of a major sector
of society, of Man himself.
panta98:Labour
had reached the stage of Petty Commodity Production. Then already the pygmies,
aborigines, Indios, Bushmen and Hottentots, all were on their way to the"historic"
slaughterhouse. The very few ones still left are today vegetating in a
permanent "humane" death agony -- that is their "human right".
GermanicWarlord:
I
know that ancient Germanic cultures had domesticated oxen and used them
as currency and as a measurement of worth.
juttaschmi
has left the room.
panta98: Matt,
that's how primitive accumulation of capital began in the womb od ancient
societies.
juttaschmi
has entered the room.
juttaschmi:Thanks,
Carl.
panta98: Hi!
Jutta!
GermanicWarlord:
Yes..
and it was kind of like public money ... useful to everyone.
panta98:I
repeat for you, Jutta!
juttaschmi:
Please
proceed.
panta98:Labour
had reached the stage of Petty Commodity Production. Then already the pygmies,
aborigines, Indios, Bushmen and Hottentots, all were on their way to the"historic"
slaughterhouse. The very few ones still left are today vegetating in a
permanent "humane" death agony -- that is their "human right".
panta98:Continuing.
....
panta98:
In Southern Africa, between 1652 and 2000, millions of these "primitive"
Stone Age and Bronze Age specimens were slaughtered, so that colonialism,
apartheid, neocolonialism and postmodern colonialism could flourish.
Iroll245:I
see - as soon as anything or anyone "wild" gets tamed the process starts??
CarlzimC:
Franz, I tried to invite Jutta several times. Says she's in the room. Doesn't
make sense.
panta98:Exactly
so, Juergen!
juttaschmi:18II~1234567890''-=
he67890-=
GermanicWarlord:
Can
I suggest a website for you guys?
CarlzimC:
OK, Jutta.
panta98:OK!
Matt!
juttaschmi:
I'm
he0-`1234567890-Carl. -`1234567890= Keyboard trouble. Sorry.
CarlzimC:OK,
Matt.
GermanicWarlord:
http://www.libertyhaven.com
panta98: Proceeding
.... What is happening in the cradle of the "Industrial Revolution" now,
that is, the "humane cattle slaughter", the "apocalyptic task", this had
happened already a millionfold across the last centuries, wherever Britannia
was ruling the waves, all across the whole British Empire, on all continents,
where the murdering hot sun never set.
CarlzimC:
I belong to www.libertyhaven.com.
I posted messages there.
panta98:We
know what were the human costs for the transformation of slave society
into the feudalist mode of production -- Thousand Years' War, Seventy Years
War, The Inquisition, burning at the stake, serfdom, etc. --, but it was
also the epoch on the interpenetration of Capital into Production.
GermanicWarlord:I
think that's how I heard about you guys.
CarlzimC:
I advocate libertarian free enterprise (Friedrich Hayek).
naranjahit:
Good Night, all, I have to sign out, please send me the chat!
panta98: Interesting,
Carl & Matt. .... And for that an "international division of labour",
-- the historic basis for future globalizattion, imperialism, a "world market",
a "New World Order" -- had to be produced.
CarlzimC:OK,
Gute Nacht, Stella.
panta98:OK!
"Good Night", Stella!
naranjahit has left the room.
panta98:Proceeding
....
GermanicWarlord:
Where
are you located?
panta98: What
were the real, true natural, social, human and historic "costs" for this
enterprise, the technologically most advanced computer in the MIT would
never be able to calculate.
panta98:
Matt: Jutta and I are in Venezuela; Stella and Juergen in Germany; Carl
in the USA!
CarlzimC:
Matt, I'm located in NJ, USA. And you?
GermanicWarlord:
I
think that pretty much everyone is a slave ... its just a matter
of the degree ... fortunately, ours is low.
GermanicWarlord:
PA,
USA.
GermanicWarlord:
You
guys sounded German... I though you might be over there.
panta98:Proceeding
.... otherwise at: http://franzjutta.org
, http://www.franzjutta.com
.
panta98: ...
What were the real, true natural, social, human and historic "costs" for
this enterprise, the technologically most advanced computer in the MIT
would never be able to calculate.
panta98: If
it should be able, then it would give the definite apocalyptic result:
"Incalculable Damage, Homo Sapiens Sapiens Extinct: May He Rest In Peace!"
GermanicWarlord:
Oh
I see... Ven, Ger, and USA ... that's cool that you guys all speak English/
CarlzimC
has left the room.
juttaschmi:Franz,`234567777
CarlzimC
has entered the room.
GermanicWarlord:
Yea.
but things can change, panta.
panta98:Millions
and millions of "slaves", of "colonial subjects", of "natives", of "kaffirs",
of "Coolies", of "Red Indians", of "Aztecs", of "Incas", etc., etc., were
brutally slaughtered in colonial "pacification" wars, in "civilization"
campaigns, in "Christianization Crusades", in conquests, in robbery, marauding,
pillaging, etc.
CarlzimC:
Thanks, Franz.
CarlzimC:Things
change continuously.
panta98:That's
how things "changed", Matt!
juttaschmi
has left the room.
Iroll245:
Or
the result would be: Homo sapiens sapiens: work!! Work to pay!
GermanicWarlord:
I'm
just saying that the apocalyptic ending is not concrete.
panta98: More
"changes": .... The "ways of life" of the under-dogs were destroyed, they
were infected with diseases, with smallpox, leprosy, etc., their stocks
were slaughtered and destroyed, their wives were raped; ...
CarlzimC:
Apocalypse ending is bullscheise.
panta98:And
some more "changes": .... like cattle they were driven into arid reserves;
their physical labour power was squeezed out, and then they were thrown
back into their respective "Bantustans" to vegetate there in horrible "humane"
agony. Under Henry VIII thousands of "serfs" became "workless", and ten
thousands were "slaughtered" as "vagrants".
panta98: The
African victims of King Leopold in the "Belgian Congo", would they still
be able to hold hands after death, would go around the globe at the Equator.
What a chattel, a cattle slaughter, my country(wo)men! In comparison, the
current British butchery is small fry!
GermanicWarlord:
I
agree, it will be slow and painful.
CarlzimC:Today,
global elites control everything by working behind the scenes.
panta98: Yes!
panta98:
Inter
alia, this was the necessary slaughter, massacre and genocide to bring
about capitalism, our mode of production, with all its different appearance
forms, with all its democratic, liberal, neo-liberal, libertarian, socialist,
communist, fascist and nazi societies.
CarlzimC:
By organizing the hoi polloi into associations.
CarlzimC:
Buende.
panta98: Carl,
but classically, in Ancient Greece, the hoi polloi were the "wretched
of the earth"(Frantz Fanon), the lumpen-dregs of society. Labour's
next transformation already began with the World Wars, with Stalinism,
with neocolonialism, with democracy, with neo-liberalism, with neo-pacification,
with reconciliation, with globalization: It's price in blood and lives?
panta98:
Well, well, already hundreds of millions slaughtered across the 20th Century;
$trillions of Capital destroyed; Nature and Society totally maimed; soon,
for any "historic being", there will be nothing to eat, to drink, to breathe,
to smoke, to do, to think anymore; nowhere to move, to stay, to live, to
sleep, to rest, to die on this planet anymore. Anything else will take
over -- homo sapiens sapiens, certainly not!
Hence, guys, enjoy it, while
it lasts; the "Titanic", the Titans, are sinking at high technological
lightyear speed!
GermanicWarlord:Things
have fallen apart faster than any of us would have dared to predict, and
we are seized by pangs of guilt and self-doubt. So many promising experiments
have gone sour, from the New Freedom of Woodrow Wilson to the latest ukase
of the present administration.
juttaschmi
has entered the room.
CarlzimC:
Matt, all was mind control.
CarlzimC:New
Left, New Age, etc.
CarlzimC:All
-isms = tyranny.
panta98:Agreed,
Matt ....Smog, dirt, disease, radio-activity, ultra-violet rays, shit;
no tree, no green, no grass, no brain, only spies, satellites, lunatics,
sadism, zombies, barbarism and savagery everywhere. That's how things are
falling apart!
GermanicWarlord:
Yea
... but who is to say that mind control is evil ... I would take the bliss
of a paradise dream over the strife of "reality".
CarlzimC
has left the room.
CarlzimC has entered the room.
panta98: "Matrix"
pipe-dreams, Matt. I know that billions won't ever agree with me, but,
you all love to gamble, well, then, take this slight chance, who knows,
you could crack the Labour Jackpot one day? Well, folks, these were my
comments to the topic!
panta98:Carl,
now you could please present your contribution. ....
THE DISCUSSION SETS IN ....
CarlzimC: I'm
referring to NWO mind control via media, etc.
panta98: Juergen,
still there?
CarlzimC:Think
of all the associations around you.
Iroll245:Yes,
I am - still trying to get Jutta back on board.
GermanicWarlord:
And would Hitler's Germany erradicate pains for
the German people? I think so ... he was well on the way to creating a
utopia ... but we got jealous because we couldnt do it ... and so
the politicians who get their livelyhood from the slavery of Americans
couldn't stand the fact that he was succeeding and Americans would become
discontented and revolutionary at such successes.
panta98: Matt,
what is your e-mail address? Mine is:
franzjutta@cantv.net
.
CarlzimC:
Nike sneakers sweat shops in Vietnam.
GermanicWarlord:
They declared war ... not the people!
GermanicWarlord:
agent00winks@yahoo.com
panta98:Thanks!
panta98:Interesting
analysis, Matt.
panta98:Matt,
I did not read above, from which town, country are you?
GermanicWarlord:
Just
because democracy won ... does that mean that it is right?
GermanicWarlord:
USA.
GermanicWarlord:
And better?
panta98: Where
in the USA?
GermanicWarlord:
Philadelphia.
panta98:OK!
CarlzimC:GermanicWarlord,
Hitler lost the war because he was the revolutionary, he tried to seize
oil interests in Iran and the Mideast.
panta98: But,
when capitalism is in "crisis", in "energy crisis", is not Nazism the apex,
the true face, of democracy, Matt?
GermanicWarlord:
Do
you read Jefferson....? ... hold on let me respond to those!
panta98: Juergen,
any comment?
GermanicWarlord:
Hitler wanted to get the oil of the Caucasus
... and the fields of the Ukraine, so that he could have the food and fuel
to make Germany totally independent and thus a utopia uninfluenced by the
capital of other countries.
Iroll245:
I
usually do not comment historic nonsense.
panta98:What
would have happened, if Germany had the atomic bomb firxt, and would have
won the war, Matt?
CarlzimC:
Agreed, Matt. However, he turned exploitative - maintained the collective
farm system in the Ukraine,
GermanicWarlord:
The
US in particular is becoming more socialist, nazi, communist... what ever
you want to call it... The founders of this country would be in uproar
if they would live today and see what "heroes" such as Theodore Roosevelt
have done to their country.
CarlzimC:
It's global economics, Matt.
GermanicWarlord:
Once
he (Hitler) had those items, he would have secured peace in Europe.
panta98: Now,
Matt, what should the "true Americans" have done to and with America? What
do you think? I am really interested!
GermanicWarlord:
Thats
all... What would he want from the rest of the world?
GermanicWarlord:
I
dont understand your question, panta.
panta98: Does
it mean that if Hitler won, we would not have been in the current "global
mess", Matt?
GermanicWarlord:
Yes!
GermanicWarlord:
Hold
on!
CarlzimC:
Hitler challenged the ecconomic interests of the global elites.
panta98: Surely,
there are different groups in the power struggle in the USA; a certain
section defends ideas similar to yours, not so?
GermanicWarlord:
Germany and Europe would not have the troubles...
but America would, unless they underwent the same changes.
CarlzimC:What
changes, Matt?
GermanicWarlord:
A
very small section... most people are brainwashed by the liberal
media... it's a complicated matter.
panta98: Does
it mean that the USA had also to choose a socialist, a national socialist
(Nazi) system?
juttaschmi:
I
think what is going to come on this planet will be enough to make "Hitler"
a little crybaby in comparison.
GermanicWarlord:
A utopian revolution.
GermanicWarlord:and
what would that be?
panta98: Matt,
please explain a little more.
CarlzimC:
What would the utopian revolution involve?
juttaschmi:
Anyhow,
it is not a matter of "big men make history". It is the logic of the system,
that leads to a holocaust of planetary proportions - we are already in
it.
CarlzimC:
Please expand?
juttaschmi:
Ecological,
economic, political and social holocaust.
panta98: Matt,
did you read Orwell: 1984; would that be an utopian revolution?
GermanicWarlord:
The abolition of government programs ..., medicare
..., medicaide ..., welfare ...., so that the people could return
to the less taxed and freer state that the founders intended it to be.
panta98: Mmmm
....
panta98:
I see ...
CarlzimC:
Hitler's Germany was a bureaucracy.
GermanicWarlord:
It
was a utopia in the making.
panta98: It
wanted the German people to govern, Carl.
panta98:
It wanted a free government of, by and for the Germans!
CarlzimC:
Did they govern?
panta98: Matt,
HELP????
juttaschmi:
"The
Germans" = German Capital, "The Americans" = American Capital. "The Japanese"
= Japanese Capital. And long ago capital has gone global already.
panta98: Carl,
the utopia was in the making ... the Allied Forces messed up the experiment.
panta98:
Juergen, I am sure, you are enjoying the debate!
CarlzimC:
Some experiment -- -Millions killed!
CarlzimC:
Mengele-Medical Experiments.
panta98: All
in the game, Carl. So that the "Aryan Race" could triumph, could survive;
it was the "fittest", the "chosen people".
CarlzimC:
It won't happen again. No way!
juttaschmi:
Global
Capital at this stage, where the exploitation of physical labour is being
replaced by the exploitation of intellectual labour will bring about "experiments"
with billions dead, Carl.
CarlzimC:
Not necessarily, Franz
panta98: Why
not? Survival is the Key-Word of Man. That's why he destroys, domesticates,
dominates Nature and Everything Else.
CarlzimC:
Lots of resistance out there.
GermanicWarlord:
Triumph
in the country that is and should be THEIRS ... it was their land... who
are we to say how they should run their country?.... we were the oppressors!
Iroll245:
Oh
sure, I'm glad that the Allied forces messed up the experiment - or this
chat would all bring us to Auschwitz.
panta98:Everybody
struggles for Survival; the weaker one, of course, perishes, have to perish
inexorably: that is the "golden" rule of the game of National Socialism,
and of Global Socialism.
juttaschmi:
"Land"
does not matter anymore. Capital needs no "land" anymore. It needs "brains"
these days.
GermanicWarlord:
Yea,
but I would be an SS officer.
juttaschmi:
Neither
Capital nor Labour know such a thing as a "fatherland" - ever heard of
the "free flow of goods, services and capital"?
GermanicWarlord:
Thats y it sux!
panta98: Interesting,
Juergen!
panta98:
Most interesting, Matt!
GermanicWarlord:
Read Tacitus ... that is all I have to
say.
panta98:No,
Clausewitz! Caesar, Napoleon: Veni, vidi, vici!
panta98: If
I remember correctly, the Emperor, Orator and Historian Tacitus,
had lived and ruled sometime after Christ's crucifixion, and had
described the "German Tribes", the "Barbarians".
juttaschmi:
It's
a reality.
panta98:
I came, I saw, I conquered! But, now we are moving to an intellectual
world, a different world, with other parameters and paradigms, where things
"work" and "work out" differently than in the physical world in which we
lived until now for hundreds of millennia.
panta98: With
Intellectual Property, we are entering the World of the Spirit,
the Age of Reason, in Hegel's World Spirit, where the inexorable
final dialectical battle rages between Reason and Intellect,
and he absolutely told us already where everything will eventually
end!
CarlzimC:
Read about Stalingrad where the SS got einen grossen Kopfschmerzen!
GermanicWarlord:
I
would start a revolution in America ... but i am not a public figure...
we need a leader ... I could be the brains.
panta98:Well,
Carl, to what end? Matt, we have a "Fuehrer" already, Florida gave him
to us! Today Leningrad is again St. Petersburg, and Rasputin is very much
alive!
Long live the Romanovs! Also
the "vampires" of Transylvania!
GermanicWarlord:
Stalingrad
was the day the world died.
panta98: Agreed,
Matt. it is dead, the world is dead! And imagine: we have
1.265 billion "slit eyes" and
1.027 billion "Coolies" out of a world population
of 6 billion, about a third
of "humanity", and they are basically "physical labourers".
Their fate has been decided
long ago already!
Iroll245:
Wie
wärs mit Michael Jackson, Warlord, der ist "public" und "Ultra-Weiß"
panta98: May
the world rest in peace; it was the day when the earth stood still.
panta98:
Juergen, you mean the Zombie Jackson? A bleached Zombie?
GermanicWarlord:
I dont speak that good German ... can someone translate Juergen's
posting, please.
juttaschmi:
It
said: "What about Michael Jackson" - he is a public figure, and "ultra-white".
panta98: (How
about Michael Jackson for "president", he is "public" and "ultra-white".)
Well,
billions don't look like him, but that is where we go ....
Iroll245:The
Ultimate "Thriller".
juttaschmi:Yeah,
Michael Jackson for president - the ideal leader for the brainwashed of
this world. Zombies of the world, unite!
panta98:You
have nothing to lose but your Prozac!
GermanicWarlord:
Ever
heard of George Will? ... he should be the dictator of the world.
panta98: No,
please explain, Matt.
GermanicWarlord:
No,
no, no ... I say George Will.
panta98: I
thought that it was Charlie Chaplin! Bin Laden! The latter sounds American-German.
He would really "schmeisst den Laden", make the show!
GermanicWarlord:
He
is the greatest American alive.
CarlzimC:Who
is George Will?
Iroll245:That
is definitely Air-Jordan!
GermanicWarlord:
The
greatest American alive.
panta98:Yes,
and I don't even know him --- an educational, informative
"black hole".
panta98:Why,
Matt?
CarlzimC:
I will search for George Will on the web.
panta98:Does
he also have a pragmatic, practical utopian revolution in mind?
GermanicWarlord:
He
knows what America can and should become but he won't run for president
because it is useless ... the only way to change America is through revolt...
and he is a brilliant man but not a violent person.
panta98:How
do you revolt without violence, Matt?
CarlzimC:What
does he advocate?
GermanicWarlord:
That's
what I mean... you have to have a revolution with violence.
panta98: The
best example of social violence is the guillotine of the Great Bourgeois-Democratic
Capitalist French Revolution! Before, did not America also have a revolution,
a violent colonial revolution? Or, else, we would never ever have had an
America!
GermanicWarlord:
He
advocates laissez faire... you know... less government.
panta98: It
was the first violent colonial revolution! But also this is already "Lassy,
passe"!
CarlzimC:Franz,
Louis Farrakhan, Nation of Islam, revolts without violence
GermanicWarlord:
Yea,
and we need another one to restore what we already had in the beginning.
panta98: We
could learn a lot from America. It is the heart-beat of the Third Millennium!
GermanicWarlord:
If you learn from the right sources.
CarlzimC:
We need to move ahead.
panta98:To
be at peace, means to accept anything, to be at rest, to die --- now how
do you revolt like that? Who taught us about "non-violence", about "peace",
about "Ruhe und Ordnung"? And why? To be "peaceful" is to be full of peace,
of ideology, newspeak, racism, totally brain laundered, washed! I'm afraid
that is the case with 6 billion "human beings"!
GermanicWarlord:
Sorry guys but I have to go.
CarlzimC:All
modern revolutions were conducted to grab colonies.
Iroll245:
How
come GW??
panta98:Thanks
for visting us, Matt. You are always welcome!!!
GermanicWarlord:
Food and schoolwork.
GermanicWarlord:
You are welcome... I like these chats.
panta98:OK!
Anytime you wish, please join us!
CarlzimC:I
understand, Matt. Chat with us anytime.
GermanicWarlord:Thanks,
bye.
panta98:Bye!
GermanicWarlord
has left the room.
juttaschmi
has left the room.
Iroll245
has left the room.
CarlzimC has left the room.
-----ooo-----
UNFORTUNATELY, AOL ALSO THOUGHT THAT "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH".
JUTTA'S KEYBOARD TOO.
THE CHAT CONTINUES NEXT WEEK .....
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