Early 2004
To read postings in the order they were posted start at the bottom and work your way to the top.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : When anyone asks you for evidence of what you state, you say you are not their research assistant. Yet you ask others for raw technical proof,
Comment (second 35 words) : this seems inconsistent. After all this is YOUR site, yet you do not wish to provide the technical proof that you demand.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I am a transplant recipient. I can donate all my organs except for the transplanted organ. I know this because I wished to be an organ donor, so I checked.
Comment (second 35 words) : My other organs are not riddled with disease. I dont know why you would use such an inflammitory statement that isnt even true.
Comment (third 35 words) : Are you trying to frighten transplanted patients or just potential recipients?
Name (optional) : X
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : If you believe the organisation i work for recovers organs from previous recipients or not is your perogative,..
Comment (second 35 words) : I am unable to give you specific info as i am bound by the laws of confideniality to patients and the organisation i work for.
Comment (third 35 words) : i am just able to state that this happens...as it is a job i am employed in to perform.....365 days a year.
Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Where is your raw technical proof that vital organ recipients can become donors themselves, M.
Comment (second 35 words) : Same question to you X plus what OPO does it and what are the success rates. Just saying oh you are wrong is inadequate to prove a point.
Comment (third 35 words) : There still hasnt been a response to my question asking what are the negative life threatening effects of dialysis - other than fluid around the heart.
Name (optional) : rn
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Organ recipients can donate OTHER organs. Norm, you say your information is researched and accurate. You have also said that organ recipients cannot
Comment (second 35 words) : donate any organs because they are riddled with disease. I believe there may be other technical inaccuracies contained in this site.
Comment (third 35 words) : Readers should be aware of this.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : i have to disagree about recipients not being able to be donors. I/my OPO have recovered organs from recipients (granted not the organ that was transplanted, but another organ) and transplanted this into recipient....so you are wrong on this point.
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Caroline of Germany: the only novel Ive read about organ transplanting is Organ Hunters by Thomas Gordon published by Chapmans Publishers, 1994.
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I dont actually oppose organ transplanting. This site is an intellectual hobby as I noticed a few years ago the lies propagated by whose who know.
Comment (second 35 words) : For example: most transplants are corneal and kidney and neither conditions are terminal, though, I think, dialysis shortens a persons life and those on it arent particularly happy - to say the least.
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Correct, this site is not morally based, but rather on scientific fact. Recipients do get AIDS-like diseases as both AIDS victims and transplant recipients have immune suppression.
Comment (second 35 words) : The former caused by a retro-virus and the latter from anti-rejection drugs attacking the immune system. Thats why recipients cant be organ donors - theyre too full of disease.
Comment (third 35 words) : As for empirical studies showing heart transplanting is less successful than claimed: see Mario Dengs study as described in Nasty Side of Organ Transplanting.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : The majority of transplant patients do well, and are afforded extra time with there loved ones, sometimes 20 or more years. Please let your readers
Comment (second 35 words) : and me know why you are so stongly opposed. Again please dont just say this is a moral issue. Telling someone with liver or heart failure that
Comment (third 35 words) : if they are transplanted they will get AIDS like diseases and cancer is not morally based.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : (cont.) then you would not (without any medical knowledge)tell people that transplant patients get AIDS like diseases, or that they will suffer
Comment (second 35 words) : rejection, and failure of other organ systems. (Yes rejection does happen, however it does not mean the organ will be lost)Transplant patients are very
Comment (third 35 words) : carefully monitored so that while they are immunosupressed, a good portion of the immune system remains intact. (this is not the case with AIDS.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, I see that you are upset because you believe that organs are being retrieved from people who are in your opinion still viable.
Comment (second 35 words) : You also take a stand against transplantation because you feel it is A)not successful and B)the immunosupression drugs have side effects.
Comment (third 35 words) : Please let your readers know why you are so strongly opposed. You clearly have more than just a moral opposition. If it was purely moralistic (see next)
Name (optional) : Caroline
Address (optional) : Germany
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Dear Norm. Thanks for very useful information. I have a question: Do you know any fiction, novels, poems critical to organ donation? Please answer.
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Name (optional) : Rn
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Everyone looking at this site, should understand that the info here is NOT based in fact, but rather in one mans very skewed opinions.
Comment (second 35 words) : I realize you have quotes. I too can find quotes from MDs and scientists to back up almost anything I want. Anyone can. The overwhelming majority of
Comment (third 35 words) : MDs would not agree with your opinions. You have every right to express them, but should do so honestly. Emprical data proves facts. You have only opinions.
Name (optional) : RN
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I did the search suggested by Norm. The only really stong coorelation was actually linked to this site. I checked with one of the immunologists I work with
Comment (second 35 words) : the incidence of liver failure with cyclosporin is negligible. Many drugs do cause increase in liver function tests, especially cholesterol meds.
Comment (third 35 words) : As always the positives should outweigh the negatives. For instance, if you are going to die from lung, heart, kidney failure,etc. Have a transplant.
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Put cyclosporin in quotation marks then liver damage in quotation marks then side effects in quotation marks, all in the same search box, into google.
Comment (second 35 words) : As to percentages, well, Im not your research assistant. Youll have to find that yourself.
Comment (third 35 words) : It would also be helpful if you used a name - a false name, if that makes you more comfortable, so different messages posters dont get mixed up as one.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I would like info on the percentage of organ transplat patients that suffer liver failure from cyclosporin OR prograf.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I put cyclosporin liver damage side effects in quotes on google.com and my search turned up with nothing. any other suggestions?
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Put cyclosporin liver damage side effects using the quotation marks, into google.com and youll find heaps of liver damage side-effects of cyclosporin.
Comment (second 35 words) : As to saying someone on dialysis should be happy with their lot I dont remember saying that - cant imagine anyone being happy on kidney dialysis - but some prefer it to a transplant.
Comment (third 35 words) : My neighbour, a Maori, former darts champion of Australasia, is now fifty years old and gets dialysis. She is very unhappy on it.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : FYI, In the US, if you have not signed you organ donor card (and even if you have) if your next of kin does not consent, your organs
Comment (second 35 words) : would NEVER be used. If you have heard different, please say where (what hospital and state) and when. I would like to look it up to confirm.
Comment (third 35 words) : Of course I will get back to you...
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, In the section of your book entitled getting a tranplant you state that cyclosporin,
Comment (second 35 words) : a calcineuron inhibitor used in transplantation medicine, causes liver failure. Where did you get this information? Please let me know.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, I cant seem to find the portion of the guestbook where you said that dialysis pts. should be happy
Comment (second 35 words) : with their lot. I had read it a few weeks ago in the archived section. Could you possibly guide me?
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Name (optional) : Brigitte
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I am so grateful for this site. Organ donation campaigns do not rend our lost loved ones the respect they deserve.
Comment (second 35 words) : I want my beloved to rest in peace. If others want otherwise, fine. I dont blame those who find these procedures acceptable or meaningful.
Comment (third 35 words) : I doubt people know what is really going on though. These facts are hidden for a reason. People should sign up for the procedure, not for slogans.
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Based on your expertise, X, what percentage of liver failure requiring a transplant is caused by paracetamol?
Comment (second 35 words) : With dialysis, Ive always assumed it was life-shortening compared to having ones own kidneys. What is your opinion? Does it shorten life and what does it do to the human body?
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : you are actually speaking to 2 different people here....yes i do have an indepth knowledge of transplantation and procurement
Comment (second 35 words) : in the last post i ment to say surgery does not necessarily shorten life span. Of course people can die on the OR table, but you can die walking across the street
Comment (third 35 words) : you really pick such diminutive arguments to try to prove your point against donation...
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Hmmm, one message implies dialysis does shorten life and another that it doesnt. It would help if you use a name - a false name is you feel more comfortable with that.
Comment (second 35 words) : You imply knowledge in transplant medicine. It would be helpful if you share this knowledge as the idea of this site is to inform the general readership.
Comment (third 35 words) : Us trying to prove each other is uninformed serves no purpose. Consider sharing your knowledge.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : you keep harping on about paracetamol and liver failure, but the number of people who are waiting for liver tranplants caused by this is nominal in comparisen to other causes
Comment (second 35 words) : where is you reasearch to say dialysis shortens life span???? a kidney transplant is now routine surgery and has as a similar risk than that of a laproscopic cholecystetomy.. i suggest you reasearch rate of death from ALL surgeries
Comment (third 35 words) : to get a true comparisen of risk and death.
Name (optional) : Norm
Address (optional) : Adelaide, SA
Email (optional) : gumflat88@hotmail.com
Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I do not have medical qualifications. Yes, dialysis will shorten a persons life. So will a kidney transplant, particularly if they die during surgery,
Comment (second 35 words) : or suffer immune-deficiency illnesses like cancer similar to those suffered by AIDS victims. I dont blame anyone with organ failure.
Comment (third 35 words) : We should, perhaps, look at paracetamol and other over-the-counter pain killers that do cause liver failure. Maybe, also those in the transplant industry who wont say a word about these causes of liver failure.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, I have asked before, and will ask again. What field of medicine do you practice? Why do you not respond to this question? Is it your medical opinion
Comment (second 35 words) : opinion that dialysis does not shorten life span. Medically that is NOT true. Where do you get your empirical evidence?
Comment (third 35 words) : I find it offensive that you blame end stage liver disease and renal failure on the patient. Why do you do this?
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : True, The Statement Opposing Brain Death Criteria does have strong religious undertones. This doesnt, however, indicate the specialists I have quoted are basing their professional conclusions
Comment (second 35 words) : on anything but their medical training and human observations. Similarly, the pro-harvest and transplant crowd quote the Pope saying he believes in harvesting from beating-heart donors.
Comment (third 35 words) : But I doubt they are basing their views of transplanting on religious precepts.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Please see The Statement Opposing Brain Death Criteria. Signed by David Wainwright. I believe you will perhaps notice the STRONG religious undertones
Comment (second 35 words) : as well as note the statement is signed not only by MDs but theologists. I believe there are quotes from the pope as well as the mention of the holy father.
Comment (third 35 words) : Researching others you have quoted yielded similar results. If you truly dont know this Norm, you should do some research.
Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Melissa, you said ) : Did a bit of research. Noticed MD quotes being used are from religious rather then medical standpoints.
Comment (second 35 words) : Which religious MDs do you refer to?
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : WELL SPOKEN RN IN THE USA.....unfortunatley this gentleman does not accept reasearch contrary to his beliefs
Comment (second 35 words) : i too am an RN in the US, and work in the procurement side...he is full of misconceptions as we both know.
Comment (third 35 words) : my hope is the people who read this do not take his word as truth, but indeed do their own research and formulate their own opinions from that.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : (continued) Who are you? Are you in the medical field at all? You can find and quote a source for almost anything to prove a point.
Comment (second 35 words) : I believe you are quoting the overwhelming minority. You should also be aware that Dialysis, while keeping a patient alive, kills them slowly.
Comment (third 35 words) : Dialysis shortens the lifespan of an otherwise healthy individual in a myriad of ways, including fluid shifts which cause cardiac damage. So, renal transplantation is in fact lifesaving. You may quote me.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : As I read what you write, I am filled with disgust for you. I am a nurse in the US. I have cared for many transplant patients including children with
Comment (second 35 words) : renal failure, who despite your beliefs, will in fact have stunted growth and a very short life span. I have also cared for patients in there 20s and 30s
Comment (third 35 words) : with small children, who without a new heart, would have died within weeks. Some of them have been alive for 10 years and longer. These lives are worth saving
Name (optional) : Melissa
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Did a bit of research. Noticed MD quotes being used are from religious rather then medical standpoints. Norm, what type of health practitioner are you?
Comment (second 35 words) : Would love some info on your background. Do you have firsthand knowledge or experience with transplant?
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Email (optional) : cynthiarcj@aol.com
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Not brain dead. What was the state of the five-year-old then? How old was the recipient?
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Name (optional) : jodi
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Email (optional) : robar@mcsi.com
Comment (holds up to 35 words) : hello everyone, I would just like to verify that my family has actually experienced, a sacrifiice of a 5 yr. old family member to save a baby that had 24 hrs. to live without a new liver. he was -not!-brain-dead! needless to say, we are heartbroken & sick
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : of course if people are stupid enough to take too many of ANY medication you are in for problems and you dont have to be Einstein to figure that out...!!
Comment (second 35 words) : you cant prevent the stupidity of a population. there are more people who are waiting for transplants from heath issues like uncontrolled HTN, diabeties and a lack of heath care THAT is were attention is needed!!!
Comment (third 35 words) : YOu are right though prevention is the cure and Heath education will reduce lists if people look after their bodies correctly in the first place.
Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I mean theyll call for more donors, and pressure the government to reduce rights of relatives to veto harvesting of dying next of kin, but they wont address the causes of some organ failures.
Comment (second 35 words) : Youll have to do the research youre interested in regarding prescribed drugs causing organ failures yourself as I have other involvements currently.
Comment (third 35 words) : However, if you check common drug guides you will see many warnings of kidney and liver problems resulting from prescription drugs used at prescribed doses.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : you are quite right the best cure is prevention..while you are correct that paracetamol in excessice doses can cause liver failure
Comment (second 35 words) : the amount of people waiting due to thoses circumstances is relatively low. I would be interested in seeing your research showing if people take these meds AS PRESCRIBED the amount people who have organ faiure
Comment (third 35 words) : These are some causes of organ failure the transplant industry wont touch do you mean from your understanding they do not get a transplant due to the mode of injury to the organ?
Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : It is also worth preventing organ failures. By putting Paracetemol (within quotation marks)and liver failure (also in quotation marks)in google.com you will see how
Comment (second 35 words) : a common over-the-counter drug is considered a cause of liver failure. Similarly, the contra-indications of many common drugs are kidney
Comment (third 35 words) : and liver problems. These are some causes of organ failure the transplant industry wont touch. We might prevent the need for transplants by tackling the drug companies - will you be in it?
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : i agree if something has a dark side it needs to be opened up and made public
Comment (second 35 words) : but, again you have NOT given alternatives to the option of transplanation...but cited that from the research YOU have chosen to cite it is ineffective
Comment (third 35 words) : but i am glad to see you quote However, despite all the above there are many instances where transplantation is the only procedure that will prolong the patients life even if it were for a short time i am sure families are grateful for the extra time the
Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : There is a link in this weeks quote of the week (starting March 15) on the index page of www.oocities.org/organdonate
Comment (second 35 words) : After this week it will be in the Archived Quotes of the Week 2 page a link of which is on the index page of the above-mentioned site.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : i look forward to reading your suggestions
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Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : A solution to the problem of organ failure has no affect on the validity of criticism of the process of obtaining organs and the value of transplanting.
Comment (second 35 words) : In many cases there is not a solution, sadly.
Comment (third 35 words) : Nevertheless, I will enumerate some alternatives next week.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm....please answer the questions below i am very interested in your solution to the problem....
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Name (optional) : webmaster
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : The last guestbook has been arhcived as No 5 - late 2003 to early 2004. It can be viewed by clicking in the guestbook section of the main page of www.oocities.org/organdonate
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : you are quick to say how you think donation is wrong, but you do not provide any alternative to the way it is beng done at present
Comment (second 35 words) : if so what is your solution to providing people with treatment of end organ failure. i would love to she your proposals instead of being a backseat complainer.
Comment (third 35 words) : you are quick to say how you think donation is wrong, but you do not provide any alternative to the way it is beng done at present