Go to Guest Book No 7
Guest Book No 8
(July/August 2004)
To read the comments in the order they appeared start at the bottom and work your way back up. This is Geocities protocol.
Name (optional) : Jen
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Carren, There is no need for a donor appendix. If your partner had an appendectomy, and does not feel well, you should contact the
Comment (second 35 words) : surgeon who performed the operation.
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Name (optional) : carren
Address (optional) : port hedland
Email (optional) : carrenspencer@yahoo.com.au
Comment (holds up to 35 words) : need a donor appendix life not the same since they removed my partner good one.
Comment (second 35 words) : have got children can you can you servive on half an appendix.
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Name (optional) : Jen
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, What are your views on living related donation? You clearly dont feel cadavers make proper donors, you also dont think
Comment (second 35 words) : more research should be done to breed animals for xenotransplantation. If the donor is alive and wishes to donate a kidney, would that be
Comment (third 35 words) : acceptable?
Name (optional) : Parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm...NO it was NOT be that wrote the message with no name about your religion and i dont see how you made that assumption...anyhow.the points i makei have NO problem putting me name to.......
Comment (second 35 words) : if you read all the postings correctly you will see the 2 in between mine and robert are linked in content there was a 3rd messgae with someones name which has been removed this is the person who made that remark....
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Parker: Richard Nilges wrote in Beyond Brain Death, published by Kluwer Academic Publications, that he had been pressured to declare brain death for patients who later walked out of hospital.
Comment (second 35 words) : Quotes by Dr Nilges from Beyond Brain Death are in Chapter 6 - Aggressive Hospital Transplant Teams - of The Nasty Side of Organ Transplanting accessible from the main page www.oocities.org/organdonate
Comment (third 35 words) : There was one comment, apparently from Parker, but without a name, that said I was religious. Where does the writer get that idea? Other questions I deal with later.
Name (optional) : parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : So norm, please clarify from your understanding...do transplant staff take people who are NOT brain dead and have reflexes left indicating specifically they are not brain dead to the OR for recoveries
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Name (optional) : cont
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : with the books and cases their colleagues have done. My husband and his partners are Neurosurgeons in CHicago, they have never heard of Nilges. I did
Comment (second 35 words) : a search on him and only found his views on organ procurement. Has he published any papers or books within his given field?
Comment (third 35 words) : It was also surprising to here that Dr. Nilges was pressured into declaring brain death in order to procure organs. That is unusual in the USA.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I believe Dr. Nilges, a highly religious man, is a rarity. You can find his signature on the statement opposing brain death. The vast majority
Comment (second 35 words) : of physicians would not agree with Nilges or the other select few Physicians who have written and signed this document. It is based on the same religious and spiritual beliefs that Norm holds.
Comment (third 35 words) : The neurosurgery community in the USA is small, here in Chicago it is even smaller. They conference together, they read each others publications, they are familiar
Name (optional) : robert
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Email (optional) : andersson@comcast.net
Comment (holds up to 35 words) : i should like URL to your site.
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Name (optional) : parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : the thing is you cant help where you live and where you are taken sick....if you live in a rural area with minimal facilities. most of the hospitals have the meat and veg type of doctors
Comment (second 35 words) : unlike an urban area that have every speciality know to man.the Md you are referencing to....by this statement it sounds like you are saying the harvest staff
Comment (third 35 words) : were trying to pressure him to declare brain death when it may not have been true..???? in which case is his belief the harvest staff would have gone ahead and recovered organs..??with an untrue diagnosis?
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : GPs mean General Practitioner in Australia, Parker. About the lack of use of neurologists I would have thought, in Australia, anyway, that every hospital here, dealing with organ harvesting, would
Comment (second 35 words) : have a consultant neurologist on call, particularly since there are only about 200 donors a year delcared brain dead in this country.
Comment (third 35 words) : Dr Richard Nilges, a retired neuro-surgeon and neurologist in Chicago, said he had repeated problems of harvest staff pressuring him to declare brain death when he believed the patient wasnt brain dead. Thanks for your comments, Parker.
Name (optional) : Parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : as you can see there are a multitude of reason why a neuro consult is not obtained.
Comment (second 35 words) : the scenario is just for the use of explaining points for MD attendance and not to debate if anoxic people get better Vs PVS Vs brain death ( i can almost hear the statments/arguments being typed)
Comment (third 35 words) : is was just a scenario that popped into my head to illustrate when a neuro isnt the primary care physician Norm, hope this illustrates answer to your question..!!!!
Name (optional) : parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : there are similar situations to this in the UK....
Comment (second 35 words) : you also have to think not all hospitals are big with every speciality, some may not have neuro units/MDs it may not be a speciality they do at that hospital
Comment (third 35 words) : so they just do not have neuro MD to do the exam. it is not always possible to ask for a consult as the MD may not have privelages to practice at the hopital ( more relevant to the USA)
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : so tey sign off the case. they may make some treatment suggestion, but at the end of the day the patient will either remain as he is or deteriorate (in this case pt has had LONG down time and is not expected to survive)
Comment (second 35 words) : so if this pt does become brain dead, the MD in charge of care is the licensed MD to perform the clinical exams required. Mds are trained during ther medical career to do this testing
Comment (third 35 words) : can you see now how in some cases neuro arent invloved due to nature of initial injury. and because all MDs are trained on declaring people BD the MD in charge can do the test
Name (optional) : parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : so, when someone in the US is admitted to a hospital they are admitted under that specific speciality and they are in charge of the pts care.
Comment (second 35 words) : It may be neuro, trauma, cardiology etc.So let me give a scenario. patinet comes in with anoxic brain injury who deteriorates to brain death
Comment (third 35 words) : a neuro consult may be obtained but in may of these cases the damage has been done due to anoxia and is irreversable, so there is nothing neuro can do to help
Name (optional) : parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Let me define the terms here for clarification as there are people from all over the world looking here and abreviations may mean different things to different people
Comment (second 35 words) : GP = general physician/practioner, in the UK this is soeone who does not practice in a hospital, but private practice. This term is not used in the US
Comment (third 35 words) : maybe you can state what it means in Aus. conts...
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Parker: do you have any ideas on the reason GPs are used rather than neurologists for diagnosis of brain death.
Comment (second 35 words) : The extra cost would be a few hundred dollars. Not a huge amount considering the cost of the transplant procedure.
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Name (optional) : Parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : i do not believe to donation rate would truely be effected if neurologist performed to declaration...my belief is brain declarations should be performed by 2 MDs at seperate times to conclude the definative diagnosis
Comment (second 35 words) : it is my belief that no-one ever goes to the theater/OR with out being 100% brain dead to have organs removed
Comment (third 35 words) : my suggestion would just, i beieve prevent diagnosis too early and consistency when declaring a person brain dead. i turn prevent misdiagnosis which causes stories of i was brain dead now im alive
Name (optional) : RN NYC
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, How do you feel about living related donation? This is a common procedure especially in kidney transplantation.
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Name (optional) : RN NYC
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, How do you feel about living related donation? This is a common procedure especially in kidney transplantation.
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Quite, Parker. If neurologists were used to declare brain death then numbers harvested would drop as neurologists would often find brain activity where GPs missed it with their simple reflex
Comment (second 35 words) : testing and replacing ventilation with an air hose stuck down the wind pipe.
Comment (third 35 words) : Youd think such a momentous action as harvesting a liver, kidneys, heart and lungs from one human would rate at least a test by a neurologist.
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : RN-USA: Campaign for Responsible Transplantation advocates many forms of transplanting as well as prevention such as avoiding early-life intake of cows milk.
Comment (second 35 words) : But they warn of the dangers of xeno-transplanting and this latter point was the reason for making it story of the week. As for the hidden source about doctor reluctance to specialise
Comment (third 35 words) : in harvesting and transplanting ...it is, simply, from an expert insider who hasnt given permission for his name to be used. But let us not get away from technical matters.
Name (optional) : RN USA
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : The current quote of the week is from the CRT (Center for Responsible Transplantation). They actually believe that human to human transplantation needs to
Comment (second 35 words) : be increased, and that potential donors should be encouraged. Did you know that Norm?
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Name (optional) : RN USA
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, In the article about MDs avoiding the transplant field, who is the source outside the UK claiming it is the brain death criteria causing the transplant
Comment (second 35 words) : surgeon shortage? Why is this claim not in the original article? It seems as though you have adulterated this for your own agenda.
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Hi Kathy: Your planned forum will be valuable addition to public understanding of organ transplanting and I look forward to linking this site to yours.
Comment (second 35 words) : Donation agency publicity is contrived to avoid donors knowing that organ removal will begin while their hearts are beating despite a brain death diagnosis.
Comment (third 35 words) : It might be a difficult and painful project to document and I hope the journey is fulfilling for you.
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Pam: I removed the story of the week about bodies cut up and rented for medical practice after an advisor said it sensationalised and degraded the debate about organ transplanting
Comment (second 35 words) : As to not responding to your criticisms the last few have been vague or general and it wasnt clear who sent them. Your using the name Pam should clear things up.
Comment (third 35 words) : I generally dont respond to emotional complaints about the site though feelings are still valid and may be accurate appraisal of personal experience.
Name (optional) : parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : i would like to suggest a change in practice for MDs declaring brain death, as i am aware of misdiagnosis. i would advocate that it is only performed by
Comment (second 35 words) : neurologist/neurosurgeons and not any licensed MD as not all MDs have the same level of experience and expertise in this area. (unfortunatley)
Comment (third 35 words) : i FIRMLY believe this is where all the storys come from when people say my sister was brain dead and now she is back to her normal self
Name (optional) : Kathy--A Donor s Mom
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Email (optional) : oakstudyguide@hotmail.com
Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I have so much to say on this subject that Im currently creating my own forum about the negative aspects of organ donation.
Comment (second 35 words) : And you can be sure I will add this website to my list of links as Recommended Reading. For too long now the public has only been getting one side of the story.
Comment (third 35 words) : To anyone who is either contemplating signing an organ donor card or already has, please thoroughly research brain death first.
Name (optional) : Pam
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Now that you know my name, please tell me what stealing corpses for medical experiments and practice has to do with solid organ transplant.
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Name (optional) : Pam
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, Now I have given you a name. I have read your novel. I have on this site seen many corrections of the technical aspects of this
Comment (second 35 words) : book and site. I have even made a few myself, and quoted a commonly used medical text in the USA. You of course ignored this as well as any other corrections
Comment (third 35 words) : made, that you could not argue with. As a transplant patient, I am deeply offended by your comparison of receiving an organ to stealing one.
Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Lets discuss technical aspects of transplanting rather than generalised criticisms.
Comment (second 35 words) : This guestbook is your opportunity to correct any errors, names your sources or experience and, if you feel safer, to remain anonymous.
Comment (third 35 words) : It might be a start for you to read the whole book, The Nasty Side of Organ Transplanting.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : news
Comment (second 35 words) : news
Comment (third 35 words) : news
Name (optional) : Witheld
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : So Norm, you are saying that there is no form border between legal and illegal or moral and immoral in your opinion. Also what does stealing parts from
Comment (second 35 words) : corpses have to do with solid organ transplantation? Your whole convoluted arguement against donation is based on recovering organs from heart beating donors.
Comment (third 35 words) : beating donors.
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : There isnt a firm border between organ buying, organ robbing and organ donation. Buying a kidney is just another avenue of getting one - quicker.
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, The vast majority of the transplant industry do not approve of the illegal trafficking of organs.
Comment (second 35 words) : Stealing and selling parts of corpses is not in the realm of transplant. Why do you choose these articles for your transplant web site? Are they
Comment (third 35 words) : simply meant to be inflammitory?
Name (optional) : witheld
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Please everyone read the article that norm is quoting from. (it is an easy search.) It will really show you just how much he twists these quotes to prove
Comment (second 35 words) : his points.
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Name (optional) : nonya
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : i am just wondering why you do not offer a balanced arguement. for example both sides of the argument about spinal reflexes.
Comment (second 35 words) : as i have already mentioned i see a quote from 2001 disputing your representation of spinal reflexes and muscle relaxants given in the OR
Comment (third 35 words) : you still maintain your stance and do not offer the alternative side of the facts
Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : The quoted part was from Dr Phillip Keep, a consultant anaesthetist at the Norfolk and Norwich Hospital in the United Kingdom,
Comment (second 35 words) : It was found in Guardian Newspaper, United Kingdom. Sarah Boseley, Health Correspondent. 19 August 2000 www.guardianunlimited.co.uk and other newspapers around the world.
Comment (third 35 words) : The chapter was written from various sources some listed in the End Notes. Feel free to dispute this listing sources and your experience as proof.
Name (optional) : nonya
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : The article that is on the first page of you website. Donors may need anesthetic
Comment (second 35 words) : Who are you quoting in the first 4 paragraphs of this story?? What year where these people quoted in the paragraphes below??
Comment (third 35 words) : if you cut a head off a chicken...it continues to keeps running for a short period of time...these are spinal reflexs. if you apply your argument these chickens are still alive??? i think NOT
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : marvel comic
Comment (second 35 words) : marvel comic
Comment (third 35 words) : marvel comic
Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Precisely what article are you referring to?
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Name (optional) : nonya
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm are you not going to respond to my posting about spinal reflexes and how you inaccuratley portrey them
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Address (optional) : nonya
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : are you going to respond to my posting...as you said you would??
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Name (optional) : nonya
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : i already did in the last post
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Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : If you can state a specific aspect of harvesting and transplanting I will reply to that.
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Name (optional) : nonya
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : i fail to understand how , for the past 3 years people who are in the buisness have been telling you that things in procurement are not how you wish portrey it
Comment (second 35 words) : you contiue to disbelieve them, and dismiss their knowledge and experience. I refernce to 3 years as i see the SAME points being made now as
Comment (third 35 words) : have been made in the guest book back in 2001 by coordinators then and now. This appears to be quite arrogant on your behalf.....