American
Military Cemetery, Normandy, France (Present Day)
On
Omaha Beach, Normandy, June 6, 1944 -- 0630 Hours
At
the Farm House
In
the Countryside
In
A Village
In
the Town
Comments
on Miller (Hanks)
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on the German Soldiers
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General
Comments
Comments
on Tanks
-
There were only about 1400 Tiger 1's ever produced during the war and at most 700 were used at one time (about 600 of which were being used by the SS). I find it very unlikely that they would have
encountered them. On the other hand I don't believe they were Russian T-34's however, I could be mistaken.
Hocobothehobo
-
It's true that the Tiger in the film is built on a T-34 Chassis. But that isn't wrong. When the Tigers were used in Russia they found out that the chassis wasn't working on that sort of landscape, the wheels came full with mud and snow and the tracks got stuck. But the T-34 chassis was perfectly suitable for the Russian landscape. So some in mobile Tiger were placed on the T-34 chassis. Especially later on in the war, when resources were poor, Tigers were built on T-34 chassis. So it isn't a mistake.
RJ Albrink
-
In the town at the end, one
of the Americans sticks a machine gun through the tank's eye-slit and fires.
The only problem is that those eye-slits had about six inches of bullet-proof
glass in them. A piece of one was a paper weight for a WWII Vet my dad
worked for. Darryl X.
- [Reply to Darryl X:
That would be fine...... if the
glass was not UP as it was clearly in the film.
Neil HOLMES]
-
What I think people watching
this film ought to remember is that none, other than Captain Miller and
Sgt. Horvaths characters, are combat veterans. So calling a German Tank
a Panzer isn't inaccurate, in fact it was commonplace. The "Tigers" depicted
are indeed Russian T34/85's weather or not they were also used in Kelly's
Heroes, I don't know. But they too were T34's. Just look at the running
gear. This story takes place on D-Day and picks up again on D+3 when Miller
gets the orders to find Ryan. Assuming it takes a few days for Miller and
his squad to get to Remel, we can safely say it would be around D+5 or
D+6 when they finally find him. My biggest problem is using a unit from
the Omaha Beach area when Utah Beach was closer to where Ryan was supposed
to be in the first place. With the airborne mis-drops occurring it wouldn't
be difficult to place a trooper from the 101st in an area where the 82nd
was supposed to be. And everything I've read concerning Operation Overlord
tells me the airborne aspect as well as the waterborne aspects were a total
fiasco. But having a unit from the Omaha area sounds totally unrealistic
to me. Thom Sutherland
- [Reply to Thom Sutherland:
Are you aware
that not many units of rangers were taken to Utah beach?
Neil HOLMES]
-
The Germans had excellent radio
communication in their tanks. Why are the commanders hanging out of the
cupolas pointing & giving directional orders? How is the driver "seeing"
where he's pointing? In the middle of a tight little combat area like that
with all that small arms fire, etc., they would have been all buttoned
up. Also, I agree they barely use the machine guns, why?
Ranan
White
- [Reply to Ranan White: This
was common place amongst WWII commanders as visibility was almost nil inside
a tank. Besides that, why might he be not referring to his gunner sitting
near him?
Neil HOLMES]
-
When the sniper (Jackson) was in the tower during the last combat fight, the tank couldn't have shot the tower. The tower was at least 20 stories high .(If you don't beleive me, look at the part when Tom Hanks tells Jackson to go in the bell tower.)
temcgallagher
-
Watch
'Battle of the Bulge' to see what the Tigers could have looked like if
T-34's where used. The Tigers portrayed in this look absolutely nothing
like a real Tiger and I think that SPR has come the closest to showing
the real thing.
Matthew Palin
-
The introduction
of the PzKpfw VI Tiger I heavy tank provided a dramatic improvement in
the power of German armored formations. Both because of the real technical
advantages of the Tiger I, and the propaganda advantages of creating "elite"
units in the Panzertruppen, the Tiger was assigned to special heavy tank
battalions (schwerer Panzer Abteilungen - sPzAbt.) These were to be held
at army or corps level and assigned as needed to reinforce other units
during a campaign. Only a few divisions ever received organic Tiger battalions.
These included Panzergrenadier Division Grossdeutschland and Panzer Lehr
Division. Buddy R
-
There
were no Tiger tanks in the American Sector during the first week of the
invasion. They were in the British sector around Caen. DobyDarnel
-
In Remel,
when the sniper dude is giving Miller hand signs, he informs him that there
are two Tigers, about forty troops and two Panzers. Later they successfully
knock out one Tiger and one of two Marders, there are no Panzers. Thad
Fuller
- [Reply to Thad Fuller: Read
some of the other replies - to any allied soldier, an AFV such as a marder
or any tank is a panzer (unless it's a tiger.
Neil HOLMES]
-
I wonder
if anyone noticed the doubtfulness of 56-ton Tiger tanks, shown storming
a small canal bridge. Bridges like that, that I have seen, often have signs
warning that the bridge won't hold more than a few tons of vehicle weight.
J
Khalili
-
US troops
and Tigers did not meet in combat until the 16th June 1944. Mark
Mitchell
-
My understanding
from the Tank Museum in Bovington,Dorset, UK, is that the tanks used to
portray the Pzkfw VI ausf I "Tiger" tanks in the street fighting
scene were designed and constructed by them expressly for the movie after
it was found that existing Tiger tanks were too fragile or valuable to
go through the rigors of Hollywood special effects. Read about it at:
http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/pr-art/pr140998.htmlor
read the below text from the website - D.
Rowden:
[Come
to Bovington Tank Museum and see the replica Tiger tank that was
used in the Steven Spielberg film 'saving private ryan' which stars
Tom Hanks and had its premier showing the weekend of Friday 11th September.
After a worldwide search showed that of the 8 Tiger tanks left,
only one was still running, and this would not have withstood the vigorous
and demanding role it would have to play in the film, it was decided that
a replica would be constructed. With the help and assistance of Bovington
Tank Museum, two fully functional replica Tiger tanks were designed
and constructed. Both of which were armored to sustain the heavy action
and battle impacts in the realistic action sequences of the film. http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/pr-art/pr140998.html]
-
So obviously
all of you who insist the Tigers were modified T-34s are
mistaken. The replicas weren't perfect, but not bad considering the relatively
modest budget of the film compared to Titanic or other shows. The lack
of defensive machine guns on the Tigers was very disappointing,
however. And of course portraying the Self-propelled artillery as "Panzers"
was equally disappointing. Impressive, however was the replica? Sd Kfz
250 half-track in the field combat scene- nicely done. Also the so-called
"rabbit" (actually an Sd Kfz 2 "Kettenrad" which must have been the real
thing) was a nice touch. I get so tired of seeing surplus US Army
tanks dressed up as Tigers and
Panthers in
Hollywood films. See the photo
of one of the replica Tigers at the Tank Museum. D.
Rowden.
-
[Reply
to D. Rowden:]
Since much of the filming was done in Ireland, it didn't have far to go
to return home to Bovington. I saw one of the 'Tigers' in action at Bovingdon
before the filming in Ireland was completed. The Tigers are not the
ones from 'Kellys Heroes', one was constructed specifically for 'Private
Ryan.' When Steven Speilberg saw it he was so impressed that he re-wrote
the village battle scene around it and asked for a second one to
be produced. They are indeed constructed on top of a T34 chassis hence
the distinctive running gear. The smaller gun barrel (a sleeve on top of
a 76mm) is also a result of this as the T34 is a much smaller tank than
the Tiger and a proper 88mm gun barrel would have looked horribly oversized.
M
Ellson
-
Reply
to D. Rowden:]
One of the Tiger tanks DOES briefly use it's machine gun. When Upham runs
down the stairs of the building where he has just left ammo with Mellish,
he has to duck into the cover of the building because the Tiger fires 3
or 4 bursts from its machine gun. It's hard to see, but in slow motion
it is clear. R. Smith
-
An important
'remark' is that the "Tigertanks" used in the movie are modified T-34's.
If you look at the tracks and the driving wheels, it's obvious. And it
gets even more obvious when you look at the proportions. It's not broad
enough and the turret is out of place. You may also question the frequent
use of the Tiger in war movies because of it's limited numbers (only aprox.
1500 units where produced). If you study the Tigers used in "Kelly's Heroes"
you will find out that it looks like the same Tigers used in Private Ryan.
Not because of its fulfillment but because of its shortcomings and because
it's obvious that these modified Russian T-34/85 are identical (almost)
to those used in Private Ryan. Excuse my poor English writing, I am Swedish.
-
D.M.S. Pino
-
This film
is great, but I've noticed an error that seemed shocking to me; indeed
the Tiger tanks in the last battle scene are just modified Russian T34
tank chassis. The modification was really good and I've noticed it after
viewing several times the scene. I think the did it very well. It changes
others film where American tanks were featuring German ones, (a.g; Patton.)
Jamil
Mourad
-
The "Tigers"
WERE T-34s. Read about it in the special issue of After the Battle magazine
which explains all this. L. Bishop
-
The tiger
tanks are converted from T-34s; the small front "non-driving" road wheel
is a dead give away. EAE630
-
The Tiger
tanks shown were both early production versions. There were no early production
versions at any time in Normandy 1944. Mark
Mitchell
-
The planes
that bombed the tank at the end of the movie where not tank busters. They
were P-51 Mustangs. The tank busters were the P-47 Thunderbolt. States
-
Reply
to States:
That is partially true. It happened in the first times of the
invasion that P-51 were used as ground attack aircrafts, even if P-47 and
British Typhoons were doing most of the job. Bruno
Asselin
-
Towards
the end of the film, the tanks are attacked by aircraft that one of the
men calls P-51 tank busters. The primary role of close air support for
the ground troops was done by P-47 Thunderbolts of the 9th Air Force. While
I'm sure that some P-51s did do some "angel zero" work, it was frowned
upon due to the vulnerability of the liquid cooled engine to small arms
fire. The P-47s of the IX TAC supporting the First Army and XIX TAC supporting
the Third Army wrote the book on air ground cooperation that is still the
model for such combat. The tanks should have been attacked by Thunderbolts
carrying 500# GP bombs at a minimum, not Mustangs. As good as the .50 cal
Browning MG was, it would just scratch the paint on a Tiger tank. Jeffrey
Lucash
-
The only
SS unit Miller and his men would have been able to fight against is the
17 SS Mechanized Division (the only one in northwestern France).
At this time, order of battle of the SS was not including Tiger tanks anymore
but the famous Panther G instead. Bruno
Asselin
-
[Reply
to Bruno
Asselin: That is Incorrect. SS Panzer
Battalions would have been equipped with Mk IVs and Panthers, but there
would also be a Heavy Tank Battalion equipped with Tiger I's. i.e. the
101st Heavy Panzer Battalion of the Ist SS Panzer corps. Mike
B]
-
[Reply
to Mike B: No, Mike, it is you who are
incorrectly informed. There were no Panzerbattalions in the 17.SS-Panzergrenadierdivision,
only a battalion of Sturmgeschutz III G assault guns. The 2.SS-Panzerdivision
'Das Reich' wasn’t even in the area, it was fighting the British around Caen. Spielberg and Co wholly missed out on this one. The organization
you refer to is the one of the Panzerregiment of a Panzerdivision (a Panzerdivision
also had two motorized/mechanized regiments). The Panzerregiment had two
tank battalions, by this time one of them Panzer IV:s and the other PanzerV:s.
A Panzergrenadierdivision is not a Panzerdivision and it was meant to be
equipped with only one tankbattalion (instead of two) and those were never
Tigers. Later in the war, tanks of a Panzergrenadierdivision were generally
substituted with assault guns for production reasons, like in the 17.SS-division
'Götz von Berlichingen' just referred to. Tigers were basically organized
in independent heavy tank battalions. A handful of elite Panzerdivisons
were directly issued an independent company of them however, and among
those was the 2.SS. At full strength it operated 14 viechles. The reason
Spielberg had to have Tigers in the film is probably due to their legendary
status. Panzerkampwagen IV H-J and the superior Panzerkampwagen V ('Panther')
were both about five times as common as the Panzerkampfwagen VI B, 'Tiger'
I. Snafu]
-
[Reply
to Snafu: Whilst you may be right about
the composition of the units and types of German armour Mike
B is not wrong at all. At no point does
he state that he believes that the 17th SS had Tiger tanks, nor does he
disagree with the concept that Panzer divisions contained mostly Panzer
IV's and Panthers. He does not even claim that the Heavy battalions were
at any stage attached to divisions. He is merely disagreeing rightly with
the idea that the SS contained no Tigers.
Neil
Holmes]
-
[Reply
to Snafu: Actually, you're right
about the SS divisions having Panthers (Mark V) and Mark IV H's as the
main Panzers in there Pz Rgmts, but the "Tiger I" was the Tiger E, "Tiger
B" was the Tiger II, the official designations Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf.
B and Panzerbefehlswagen Tiger Ausf. B (for the command version). The official
designation was frequently shortened to Tiger B. SdKfz182 Tiger II "B"
or Royal or King Tiger (the suggestive name Königstiger (King Tiger)
was an unofficial designation first used in early January 1945 in a monthly
production report from the Speer Ministry. This was never an officially
accepted designation during the war by either the Panzertruppen or the
Waffenamt) was an updated design of the "Panther" because the decision
was made at standardization of as many components as possible for use in
both the Tiger II and the Panther II (which was never put into production).
The only "relative" the Tiger I had was the PzJagd (tank hunter) Ferdinand
or "Elephant", being constructed on the Tigers chassis and basically a
Tiger w/o the movable turret (lack of ball bearings made that decision),
the Elephant not being on scene long because of it's extreme use of armor
and lack of secondary armament. Buddy R]
-
Nobody
in the history of war would have been stupid enough (maybe the Russians)
to send the tanks at the same time as the grunts in an area such the street
we see in the movie (in the final fight). Aufklarers and Schutzens
would have cleared the place long before and the tanks would have stayed
far away enough from antitank weapons (except the weak baz, Americans had
none) but close enough to provide very good fire support. Bruno
Asselin
- [Reply to Bruno
Asselin: What about Michael Wittmann? He was a extremely
experienced soldier and yet he went into a village that HE KNEW was
occupied, without any accompanying infantry and it cost him his Tiger. K.
Nault]
-
In the
scene where the American soldiers, about 6 of them, climb on top of the
Tiger, and then they all get blown away by the 20 mm flak gun. They just
tumble off, not visibly damaged! At any range, especially that close up,
a 20 mm round would totally disintegrate you. They just fall dead, when
in real life they would've been splattered all over the place. Not a pretty
fate for a soldier, but that's what would've happened. Cyrus
Clennon
-
[Reply
to Cyrus Clennon: I recall that one of
the soldiers on the top of the tank was decapitated. J.
McCarney]
-
The American
soldier that fires into the Drivers Port on the Tiger would have had the
Bullets deflect off the Thick armored Glass. David
Hughes
-
[Reply
to David Hughes:
He's right about the tiger scene when a Thompson was fired into the drivers
OB slot. The slot has a 3.7 inch multi layered glass visor, which in my
opinion would be pretty much bullet proof.
Greg & Katy]
-
The diameters
of the barrels on the Tigers 88mm Guns are too small. They are probably
about 50 mm. David Hughes
-
[Reply
to David Hughes: Actually since the tank
was built around the T34/85 the barrel is at least 85mm in diameter, surely
we can forgive them 3mm! Neil Holmes]
-
The movie
takes place within the first two weeks of the Normandy invasion.
During that time the 2nd SS Panzer Division which attacks at the bridge
in Remel (a town which is probably imaginary) in reality was no where near
the front and was stuck far to the south fighting French partisans. Jeff
Sherwin
-
one of
the Tiger tanks (Russian T-34 mockups used in Kelley's Heroes) bears insignia
of the 1st SS Panzer Division (crossed skeleton keys on a shield) which
also was no where near the American sector and didn't arrive on the front
until well after this movie ends. I don't even think either division
fought against the Americans (only the British and Canadians) until well
into the breakout. Jeff Sherwin
-
The Panthers
or panzers identified by the man in the tower were not supposed to be Wespes
(Wasps) since Wasps were mobile artillery units with 105mm guns.
They were supposed to be Panzerjagers IIIs (Marders) which were built on
Czech tank chassis'. I think they did a reasonably good job with
those exception that I don't think professional soldiers would ride an
open top vehicle down the middle of an unsecured street where they would
be vulnerable to small arms fire from above. Then again by that time
many of the German soldiers were pretty substandard. Jeff
Sherwin
-
[Reply
toJeff Sherwin: In the movie it is stated
that the Panthers didn't 'take the bait' and were therefore not part of
the fight. The Wespe was apparently in support of the Tigers. Mike
B]
-
When the
20mm gun is spraying the tiger with the U.S. soldiers on it the 20mm gun
itself does not traverse back and forth at all just points straight ahead
yet the bullets spray all over the tank hitting all the soldiers. Andrew
Ferguson
-
Why were
there only 2 crew members in the Wespe, before it was destroyed? Greg
Way
- [Reply to Greg Way: Nope.
Some others would be out of site - like the driver.
Neil HOLMES]
-
Why do
the Tiger tanks sound like dinosaurs? He made them sound like living breathing
animals.
W1037
-
RE: Two
Tigers & one Panther. I am sure that he said two Tigers and one Panzer.
He was wrong anyway as there was a Wespe and a Jagdpanzer (Guderians Duck),
as you so rightly mentioned (Wespe). I also heard that the Tiger was made
from the chassis of a T-34, but I don't believe that at all. Whatever,
It was a fairly accurate copy except for the road wheels, commanders cupola,
track links etc). Greg Way
-
No machine
gun fire from Tigers. Anonymous
- [Reply to Anonymous: Moving
vehicle or stationary unable to traverse would cause the hull mg problems.
Firing mg and the main gun would be pointless because the Main gun's recoil
would spoil the aim.
Neil HOLMES]
-
The soldiers
defend the bridge against German Tiger tanks. According to a reliable source,
there were no Tiger tanks in the American sector during the D-Day Invasion
time frame. Anonymous
-
Although
most people probably wouldn't notice this, the mock-up tiger tank actually
depicts an early production version with air cleaner hoses on the rear
deck and drum-like commander's cupola, which were long gone by 1944. Anonymous
-
And isn't
it a little strange that a German tank equipped with anti-personnel bomb
throwers in its roof managed not to use it while being swarmed over by
American troops? J. Warwick
-
A sticky
bomb may have damaged the Tigers tracks but there is no way it would have
penetrated its side armour and caused the damage seen. J.
Warwick
-
A "sticky
bomb" would not penetrate the side armor of a tiger tank because the armor
is to thick. Yes, it will effect a track to be thrown - which is what happens
in the movie. Jeremy Waters
-
Panzer
in German means "Armor" not a particular type of tank or armored vehicle.
All vehicles or tanks are considered Panzers. Jeremy
Waters
-
[Reply to Jeremy Waters: I beg to differ, but the term "Panzer" means "Tank" in English.
Miguel Bravo]
-
[Reply
to Jeremy Waters: Yes this may be true,
but the Germans rarely referred to such vehicles as half tracks or Panzers.
Such vehicles were usually referred to with the prefix SDKFZ then their
number which means special purpose vehicle. Even tanks and armoured cars
contained this number - e.g. the Panther G's full title was "Sonderkraftfahrzeug
171 Panzerkampfwagen V Ausf G Panther". This designation applied to many
different types of vehicle and was certainly more widespread amongst the
Germans than the term "Panzer." Neil Holmes]
-
This was still one hell of a movie and we must remember that all the events happened over 50 years ago and there just isn't the original equipment to be had. My dad was in the 16th rgt. 1st Div. and I am very proud of him and all of the others of his generation for what they sacrificed! God bless America.
DocBob39
-
On a Tiger
Tank the tracks got blown off, but it's still going. Weird, considering
Tigers used their front sprocket... says the book of the Tiger Tank!! SmthBrnd
Please
Feel Free To Contribute To This List Of Errors in
saving
private ryan
Thanks,
EZ Langston
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