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Do Not Feed The Trolls


- Lex Cunninghamensis

Basics

Last-modified: 7th January 2004

Frequently Answered Questions on soc.culture.irish. Send corrections, suggestions, additions, and other feedback to The FAQ maintainer.

Contents of Part 1

  1. What is the newsgroup "soc.culture.irish" about?
  2. Where is the Irish culture?
  3. I found a lot of nastiness here. Are real Irish people like that?
  4. What is netiquette?
  5. What is a troll? What should I do when I see one?
  6. What are the basics I should know about Ireland?
  7. What are the basics about the Republic?
  8. What are the basics about Northern Ireland?
  9. I'm a bit confused by all the names. Please explain.
  10. What about Irish-Americans?
  11. Why is there a conflict in the North?
  12. Where can I find more information about the flags of Ireland?

1) What is the newsgroup "soc.culture.irish" about?

soc.culture.irish was created by a vote of 539 to 21 following the usual process (see news.announce.newusers for more information on this process). The result was announced in news.announce.newgroups on 12 May 1995.

The vote approved the following as the charter of the newsgroup.


The soc.culture.irish newsgroup will be open to discussion of all subjects specifically referring to Ireland or Irish culture. This newsgroup will be created for reasons including, but not restricted to, the following:

* To encourage understanding and discussion of Ireland and Irish culture, in the many ways people wish to define it.

* To act as a focus for the Irish diaspora (Irish people, including emigrants and their descendants) and to draw together the global threads of Irishness.

* To act as a resource for Irish people who wish to use the Internet and for people who wish to encourage the development of the Internet in Ireland.

* To provide a forum for the use and support of the Irish language.

The following exceptions should be noted:

* Matters referring to the broader family of Celtic nations should be posted to soc.culture.celtic.

* Matters referring to Irish folk music should be posted to rec.music.celtic.


[ At the time the charter was written there was no separate newsgroup for Irish family names. Now there is soc.genealogy.ireland, which is more appropriate for this than soc.culture.irish .]

2) Where is the Irish culture?

Usually this question is a complaint. Many people are disappointed when they read soc.culture.irish and find it isn't quite what they expected. The newsgroup is not just for discussions about Irish culture (unless you broaden the word "culture" to encompass almost all things Irish). This is for the very good reason that soc.culture.irish is the only Irish newsgroup with worldwide distribution. (Other newsgroups, such as those in the ie.* hierarchy are not available everywhere.) It does not pay to read too much into a name when that name is fairly arbitrary (as is the case with most Usenet newsgroups).

Having said that, there is most likely a place in the newsgroup for Irish culture as you define it. If you don't see what you want to discuss, you should post an article on the subject yourself. If you express yourself well, you'll probably find that people will respond positively. On the other hand, it is not productive to complain about what's there if you have made no effort to contribute yourself.

Finally, remember that, as in most news groups, the interesting articles are often hard to find until you get to know the group. There are discussions going on all the time about things other than politics: you just have to look beyond the current flame war. You might want to read for a couple of weeks before you pass judgement. Good news reading software helps a lot as traffic through the newsgroup can upwards of 200 posts per day.

3) I found a lot of nastiness here. Are real Irish people like that?

No. You cannot generalise from soc.culture.irish to "real" Irish people (whatever that means to you). People often do not behave on newsgroups as they would in real life. A newsgroup is a great place to get on your hobby horse, make a lot of noise and get yourself some attention without suffering the consequences you might if you did it in a pub. Again, it pays to look beyond whatever rudeness offends you for quieter discussions that may be taking place in the next booth.

(See also the question about trolls.)

4) What is netiquette?

It's politeness on Usenet. People reading your articles appreciate it if you follow certain guidelines. Some of the guidelines are listed here. If you are not familiar with them, you might want to check the newsgroup news.announce.newusers.

5) What is a troll? What should I do when I see one?

A troll is an attempt to start a prolonged flame war (a fierce argument with rude, personal insults). A troll is usually an article that is so outrageous, insulting and stupid that you feel you have to reply. You can often recognise it because it is crossposted to several groups (very few articles posted to more than three groups are worth reading). If it is posted by someone from whom you have never seen posts before (especially if they are using an anonymous account), it is likely to be a troll. Trolls will often flagrantly violate basic netiquette.

If you see a troll, the one thing you must not do is post an angry reply. If you do, the troller will have succeeded. It is better to ignore the troll. Trolls crave attention and responding to them encourages them to keep posting. soc.culture.irish has at times been overwhelmed with trolls posting racist or sectarian rubbish that people naturally wish to refute. The huge waste of bandwidth caused by a troll's posts and responses to them destroys much of the enjoyment to be had from reading s.c.i. Arguing with a troll will not make them go away but only encourage them to continue polluting the newsgroup. The only effective way to get rid of a troll is to ignore it. This admonition is considered so important that it has been enshrined in the Lex Cunninghamensis, which states:

Do not feed the trolls

If you have a killfile facility (sometimes called a filter) in your newsreader, you can set it to ignore future posts from the troll. This facility is named BlockSender in Outlook Express. A good newsreader can also be set to "kill" a subject (ignore future posts with that subject line).

See the FAQ about trolls for more information. It is worth remembering that not everything you personally find offensive is necessarily a troll.

6) What are the basics I should know about Ireland?

Ireland is an island in north-western Europe with a temperate climate. Much of the coastline is hilly and large plains cover the middle and southeast of the country. It is inhabited by around five million people. Ireland was once covered with deciduous forests but fields are now the dominant feature of the landscape.

There are two cultures to be found in Ireland. Historically, the island has been politically dominated by the people of its eastern neighbour, Britain. One culture values its connections with Britain: people of this culture see themselves as British (though not always and not always exclusively) in the same way that the Scots and the Welsh are. They are called Unionists. People aligned to the other culture see themselves as Irish and put great value in being independent from Britain. They are called Nationalists.Unionists are mostly raised as Protestants, nationalists as Roman Catholics. (Unsurprisingly, nationalism and unionism both run in families.) The two cultures are often referred to as the two traditions, communities or identities.

Ireland has been divided into 32 counties since mediaeval times. Six counties in the north-eastern part of the island form Northern Ireland, which is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The majority of the people in Northern Ireland are unionists. The remainder of the island became independent from Britain in December 1921 and is now known as the Republic of Ireland. The capital of the Republic is Dublin, the largest city on the island. Virtually all of the people in the Republic are nationalists.

7) What are the basics about the Republic?

The population of the Republic was 3.9 million at the last census(2002). It has traditionally been divided into twenty six counties:

Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Cork, Donegal, Dublin, Galway, Kerry, Kildare, Kilkenny, Laois, Leitrim, Limerick, Longford, Louth, Mayo, Meath, Monaghan, Offaly, Roscommon, Sligo, Tipperary, Waterford, Westmeath, Wexford and Wicklow.

The Local Government Act (2001) divided County Dublin into three counties (Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown,Fingal and South Dublin) and Dublin city (which now has the status of a county in its own right). The Ridings of North and South Tipperary are now counties in their own right rather than divisions of a single county. However, the traditional counties are still the ones that people identify with in cultural and sporting terms.

Dublin, with a population of over a million, is the largest city and the capital. The government has tried to slow migration from rural areas to Dublin using measures ranging from grants to relocating government offices, but with limited success.

English is the language generally used in every day life. Irish is spoken mainly in areas located along the western seaboard known as Gaeltachts. There are also a large number of Irish speakers in the cities (particularly Dublin) but they are less concentrated there than in the Gaeltachts.

Ireland celebrates its national day on March 17th, the feast day of its patron saint, Patrick, who is traditionally credited with introducing Christianity to the country. The day is celebrated in the U.S. almost as much as (some would say more than) in Ireland.

Government
The republic has a bicameral Oireachtas (Parliament) consisting of an upper house, Seanad Éireann (the Senate) and a lower house, Dáil Éireann. Members of the Dáil (known as Teachtaí Dála or T.D.s) are elected directly and this house has the primary legislative role. The Seanad (whose members are not elected by the people at large) has limited powers and can in general be overruled by the Dáil.

The national flag is divided into three equal vertical bands of green (hoist side), white, and orange. The green symbolises the nationalist culture, the orange the unionist culture, and white symbolises peace.

8) What are the basics about Northern Ireland?

The CAIN website has extensive background information on Northern Ireland.

9) I'm a bit confused by all the names. Please explain.

Different people use different names.

There are two more important terms: "Republican" and "Loyalist". A republican believes in an extreme form of Nationalism, a loyalist believes in an extreme form of Unionism. Both terms are used to describe groups who advocate the use of violence to achieve political aims.

Unionists tend to call Northern Ireland Ulster, although Ulster actually includes three counties that are in the Republic: Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal. Republicans (here meaning nationalists who sympathise with violent attempts to force union between Northern Ireland and the Republic) often call Northern Ireland "the Six Counties" and the Republic "the Twenty Six Counties" (or, worse, "the Free State", a reference to the original Irish state with limited independence created in 1921).

British people often call the Republic Éire (possibly because it was the word used by the BBC for years) but the word is grating to many Irish ears when used in English. "Éire" is the name of the state in Irish, "Ireland" is the name in English. The Constitution says as much (but also contains the phrase "We, the people of Éire" in its preamble, arguably a case of mis-translation). Some Irish don't mind the mix and even use it themselves, however if in doubt, you call it "Ireland" if you are speaking English.

See the Constitution in hypertext. "Ireland" is ambiguous: it may refer to the island or to the part governed from Dublin. You may want to say "the island of Ireland" to avoid this ambiguity. "The North" and "the South" are often used as shorthand for Northern Ireland and the Republic respectively.

There is sometimes a subtle difference in whether the word is written with an initial capital or not, e.g. 'unionist' indicating a general connection with the idea, 'Unionist' implying a more direct political involvement especially relating to one of the Unionist political parties.

Finally, you cannot tell someone's political allegiance reliably from what names they use: these are all generalisations. The safest terms are "Northern Ireland" and "Republic of Ireland".

10) What about Irish-Americans?

What about them?

But seriously, "Irish-Americans" are a topic of heated debate, repeated misunderstandings and a flame war permanently threatening to break out as soon a newcomer says something inapposite on soc.culture.irish.

To summarise the problem, some Irish people don't like it when Americans refer to themselves as Irish or act in a way that implies (or seems to imply) that they are "really" Irish.

There's not much that can be usefully said about this problem except perhaps that people should keep an open mind and try not to apply preconceptions based on words on a screen. The word "Irish" can be specific, referring to nationality or it can be vague, referring to ethnic background or "identity". There's a whole range of meaning, which may not be immediately obvious.

See charter of the newsgroup.

11) Why is there a conflict in the North?

This is a question that is impossible to answer without offending someone but the maintainers of CAIN have bravely stepped into the breach with a list of FAQs about the Northern Ireland conflict.

12) Where can I find more information about the flags of Ireland?

Vincent Morley has a web page about various Irish flags at http://www.connect.ie/users/morley/flags.htm


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