01:
Before I say anything else, I want to thank all of you who have
participated int the survey on the "false call waiting interruptions"
problem. Thank you for investing your time and effort in completing the
long and complicated survey that was posted to this site in the last few
weeks. I also want to express my thanks and gratitude to Pete VanMaaren,
the host of this very informative and useful site for Webtv users, who
has devoted many hours of his precious time to this project, and without
whose support and friendship I would not have been able to continue on
in my persistent effort to isolate the real cause of this very annoying
problem of false call waiting interruptions, that so many users have
been experiencing for so many months now.

02:
Well folks, I have good news for you and bad news! The good first: I
BELIEVE I HAVE  ISOLATED THE MAJOR CAUSE OF THESE INTERRUPTIONS. Before
I continue, and tell you what it is, I must first also give mention to
ONE Webtv user who completed the survey, who very astutely gave me the
first real clue to what was, perhaps, causing the problem. His comments
to the survey can be seen HERE: David's comments:


THANK YOU DAVID, for your very astute observations, which led me to follow up
with research and experiments that finally uncovered what I BELIEVE to
be the MAJOR cause of this problem.

03:
THIS IS IT:  You have been told tht these mysterious interruptions have been due to possibly
several things: too many phone devices on your tel. line; "noise" in
your phone line wiring either inside or outside your residence;
capability of your local phone companys' lines to handle certain high
modem speeds, etc., and have been given advice by WeCare reps and users
alike ranging from moving the box off top of tv set, to phone line
filters, to batteries in your keyboards, to using surge protectors,
etc., etc., ad infinitum! Well folks, this is what I believe to be
causing the problem for most of you. The ISP (Internet Service Provider) you are using to connect
to Webtv (the access numbers your terminal dials into to connect you to
Webtv) has programmed in what is known as "timeouts" during periods of
"inactivity" when you are online. This "timeout" is a common practice
that most ISP's employ in order to alleviate the traffic congestion
caused by too many people trying to connect to the Internet, and stay
online, at any given time (not just "peak periods"). Webtv uses
Concentric Networks and UUNET (major Internet Service Providers) to
provide you with the access numbers assigned to you, in your location,
to connect yur terminal to the Webtv service in California.I am not
aware, at this time, if Webtv utilizes any OTHER network providers,
other than Concentric and UUNET for their access numbers, but in any
event, these are the two networks from which most of you are connecting
to Webtv. I know this because I obtained a list of Concentric Networks
access numbers for the entire U.S., and the majority of you (who
reported your access numbers in the survey) are using those numbers for
access and some are using UUNET access numbers. I called Concentric
Networks' customer service and learned that they do indeed utilize
programmed "timeouts", on a 24 hour basis, regardless of whether it is
during a peak period or not.Their service senses when the person online
is in an "inactive" state, and in intervals of 15 to 30 minutes will
interrupt that users connection if they have been "inactive" for from 15 to 30 minutes. 

04:
Upon learning of these programmed timeouts, I realized that webtv had me on an 800 number for access while
they were testing my connections from their offices in Calif. I
experienced much fewer interruptions on this 800# access than when they
put me back on the local access numbers, which were Concentric Networks
and UUNET access numbers. (I don't know why this would be so, other than
perhaps that those 800# access numbers do not go through the same
Concentric or UUNET networks. So I then conducted several
experiments (which I would like you all to try as well) that revealed to
me that the false call waiting disconnections were indeed caused by
these "timeouts" by the local ISP you are using to connect to Webtv. The
first experiment I tried was writing a long email. I pulled up the
"write" screen in email, and started a letter and noted the time I
started. You will notice that when you are writing an e-mail (or doing
anything else online) that the status bar at bottom of your screen, in
the right hand corner, has a green line which is called the "heartbeat".
When you are typing your letter and do nothing else but type, and do not
use the "back" button, or link to anywhere else while writing the email,
that the "heartbeat" line dos not move - it stays flat and straight.
This means that you are not "loading" anything, and thus is interpreted
by the ISP (your local access connection) as an "inactive" state, even
though you are "actively" writing your email and creating "movement" on
the screen by either typing or scrolling up and down. (If you leave the
box for awhile, and do not create this "movement" the Webtv box will
disconnect so as not to burn the image into your t.v. screen. This is
the automatic 10 minute disconnect that we are all well aware of).

05:
In my experiment, with call waiting ENABLED, I continued writing my
letter without using the back button at any time, which would create the
"heartbeat" to pulsate indicating "activity". After exactly 30 minutes
of typing, I then received my first interruption producing the screen
message: "Your connection to Webtv has been interrupted, freeing your
line for another call", and, of course, THERE WAS NO CALL! I reconnected
to the same place I was on screen and continued to type my letter for
another 30 minutes. Exactly 30 minutes later, I received the second
interruption, same screen message stating I was interrupted to free line
for another call, still no call. After reconnecting again, I continued
on for another 30 minutes and received yet another disconnection, with
same screen message, exactly 30 minutes from when I reconnected in the
same email. I then ended my first experiment.

06:
I then tried several other experiments: 1: I DISABLED call waiting in
dialing options set up, performed the same experiment in email, with the
"heartbeat" remaining still throughout my typing, and at exactly 30
minutes I received a disconnection with the screen message that says:
"Your connection to Webtv has been interrupted" without the added
"freeing your line for another call", the TYPE 2 interruptions, as
described in the survey. 

2: I then did the same experiment while connected to my secondary access
number, which is a UUNET access number, and produced the same results:
disconnection every 30 minutes, with same "freeing your line for another
call" screen message popping up. 

3: I then did same experiment while viewing a website, by reading a long
page from that website, without ever linking or loading anything else,
the "heartbeat" remaining still while I read the page, or scrolled up
and down in it. this test also produced the same results: disconnected
every 30 minutes, same screen message. 

07:
At this point I was jumping up and down with excitement, exclaiming:
"THIS IS IT", "This has GOT to be IT !", I had isolated the MAJOR cause of these interruptions!!!
If I can manipulate the disconnection screen messages to pop up, then it
can't possibly be a phenomonen exclusive to my own Webtv terminal, and I
MUST have isolated the real cause of these interruptions, that MUST be
effecting all other users experiencing this problem as well. 

08:
EXPLANATION: When the local ISP senses that you are in an "inactive"
state, i.e., the "heartbeat" is still and not loading anything, the ISP
then "hangs up the line", thus triggering the screen message that you
are disconnecting "freeing your line for another call" (this is a Webtv
screen message, it is not programmed in by the ISP). This particular
screen message is only available in the box when you have call waiting
ENABLED. When c/w is DISABLED, or whenyou don't even have call waiting
phone service on your line, the only screen message available in your
Webtv box is the one where it merely tells you you have been
disconnected, without the "freeing your line for another call" part. It
is not available because the box "knows" that you have "blocked" call
waiting in Dialing Options Set-up, or chose "no call waiting on my line"
in Dialing Options. The box recognizes the local ISP "timeout" as though
it were a "hang-up" of your telephone line. Notice that if you pick up
the receiver of your telephone while online, it will produce the same
screen message you get when you get these false call waiting
interruptions, or real incoming calls. 

09:
I have asked two other Webtv users who have had this disconnect problem
to conduct the same experiments. They both produced the same results as
I did in my experiments, at the same 30 minute intervals. I want to
caution you that when you do this experiment, you MUST not just leave
the screen still, you MUST KEEP IT IN MOTION by typing or scrolling. If
the screen is not kept in motion, you will then get the automatic 10
minute "screen saver" disconnection, which then in just a few minutes
will show the rolling Webtv logo until you log back in. If you get this
type of disconnection you will have to log back in (reconnect on the
"reconnect" box on the screen) and start the timing all over again.
Likewise, if you get a real incoming call during the experiment, you
will have to reconnect and start the timing of the email all over again. 

10:
I would like to ask all those who complete the survey to conduct the
same type of experiments. Do one when you are writing email with call
waiting enabled; do another when you are viewing a website, and perhaps
another when you have call waiting disabled. Also, check to see if your
secondary ISP access number produces the same results: disconnected
after 30 minutes of "inactivity" (remember, do not link to anything
else, or use back button while you are conducting the experiment). 

11:
I would also like for all of you to be aware that Concentric Networks
informed me that these "timeouts" (disconnections) for "inactivity"
programmed in for all their customers, regardless of whether you are on
a p.c. or Webtv box to access the Internet. They also told me that they
can't answer any questions about their "contract" with Webtv, and cannot
know if Webtv can do anything to alleviate this problem for Webtv users.
(some pc users can actually write email when they are not logged in to
the Internet, so that that "activity" is not recognized as "inactivity",
and they can't get bumped offline. I doubt if Webtv can do this for
Webtv users). Also, Concentric informed me that the timeout intervals
can range from 15-30 minutes of inactivity before you are disconnected.
It was also not made clear to me whether this is a standard interval for
ALL areas of the U.S., or whether ALL Webtv users have this timeout
programmed in by their local ISP connection through Concentric's access
numbers and network. Therefore it is still unclear as to why MOST users
of Webtv, in all areas of the U.S., have not complained to Webtv about
the same type of call waiting interruptions. This MAY be explained by finding
out if ALL Webtv users, in ALL areas of country, are ALSO getting these
"timeouts" set at intervals of 15-30 minutes, or if they are not, why
not? This remains for the Webtv engineers to determine.

NOTE: READING THIS LONG ANNOUNCEMENT MAY VERY WELL CAUSE ONE OF THESE
TIMEOUT INTERRUPTIONS. As you scroll and read this page, you may get the
interruption every 30 minutes you spend in this "inactive" state, while
NOT EVER using the back button to create the "activity" needed to
override the programmed timeout. Reading this page may very well produce
your first "experiment" to see if you get these interruptions every 30
minutes, or every 15 minutes as the case may be. While reading this
announcement myself, I DID get the interruption after 30 minutes of
reading and scrolling. 

12:
Some of you MAY experience these disconnections more frequently than
others, or more frequently than at 30 minute intervals (it could be that
certain areas of U.S., or during certain "peak periods" of Internet
usuage, Concentric or UUNET have their timeouts set at 15 minute
intervals, not 30 minutes). Furthermore, some of you reported in the
survey that you get these interruptions sporadically, or infrequently,
or not at all for days or weeks. The reason for this, I believe, is in
your online "habits" - some of you may write more long emails than
others, some may only write emails taking more than 30 minutes
occasionally, some may hardly ever write long emails, but do view
websites with long pages to read that keeps you on the same page
(without linking anywhere else) as your most frequent activity. Some of
you may be getting these interruptions when you are editing homepages,
because it takes you longer than 15-30 minutes, and you are not linking
anywhere else while you are doing your editing. Sometimes you may not be
getting these interruptions for days, weeks, months even, because you
are not engaging in these types of online activities that trigger the
disconnects for that period of time. This would explain the frequency or
infrequency of these disconnections for each individual user.

13:
Many of you have been told that these disconnections may be due to
telephone line "noise" in your residence phone line wiring. Please be
aware that I am not concluding here that telephone line "noise" in not
"possibly" also causing some of these disconnections. But it is my own
gut feeling that the ISP "timeouts" are the MAJOR cause of these
interruptions. Try the experiments and see for yourself, and draw your
own conclusions.

14:
I would like to recommend to all of your experiencing this problem to
take the following steps to identify the cause of your individual
disconnect problems.

1: Before you try ANYTHING try the suggested experiments described above
. Even if you get the same results as I did, do not presume that it is
the ONLY cause. Try step 2.

2: have the phone company check your lines from their central office
(they will not have to come to your home to do this, as of yet). If they
find "noise" in your phone lines, "static" let's say, they will then
have to come to your home to check your outside tel. lines. If they find
no noise in those lines, (but they did at the central office) they will
then have to check your inside telephone wiring. If no line noise is
found there (if they do find the problem you can then correct it) then
you can safely bet that the local ISP timeouts is the main cause of the
disconnect problem you are having. 

3: also ask the phone company what modem speeds your voice telephone
line (as opposed to a "data" tel. line) are capable of handling. Webtv
box uses "up to" 33.6bps modem speeds. Sometimes the speed of the modem
connection is operating at less than that speed. (The phone company, in
my case, said that my voice tel. line are near perfect for data
transmission, after which I concluded, as did the phone co. technician,
AND the engineer at Webtv, that line noise was not the cause of my
particular disconnection problem.). 

4: some of you have tried EMI and RF filters on your phone lines - some
reporting that they "never" got these interruptions again; some saying
they started all over again a few days or weeks later. for your
information, an EMI filter (electromagnetic interference) may be useful
to prevent interference like when you turn on an air conditioner while
you are connected to Webtv. An EMI filter may help prevent any problem
that may be causing, but I doubt if it DOES ANYTHING to eliminate the
disconnection problem. Likewise, and RF filter (radio frequency
interference), like if you are hearing radio stations when on the phone,
or over your tv speakers. Try it, if that has been your experience.

5: Surge suppressors, protectors: the Webtv boxes have surge protectors
already built in to them, but who is to say that these built in surge protectors
are functioning properly? Enough said! 

15:
I am now going to introduce to you a letter I received from a webtv
engineer just this past Thursday, May 8th. On that day I had called a
Webtv rep with whom I correspond and talk to frequently. I told this rep
what I had learned through the survey responses, my research and
digging, and my experiments. I asked her not to pass this on to the
engineers as of yet because I wanted all of you to do these experiments
first, to bolster my theory, and not just have the engineer think that
it was I alone who had "confirmed" my theory.  I can't be sure, but I suspect that this rep DID tell the engineer
about my "discoveries" because that same day I received the following letter from the engineer. See his letter HERE:, and then return to this page to hear "my side of the story".

16:
As you saw, if you have already read the engineers letter, is that he refers to having spoken with the phone company technician that was at my home, and they concluded that my lines were "within tolerances" for a voice line "data" transmission. He then says that "he took the liberty"
to monitor my lines over "the last few days" and found only ONE "carrier
loss" (which means he saw only one disconnect of my line while I was
online, in the last few days). He says that a "carrier loss" reflects
not only legitimate incoming phone calls, but also the disconnection
kind when there is no call coming in. I can tell you with absolute
certainty, that in those "last few days" I had received at least 10 real
phone calls, in addition to at least 10 other false call waiting
interruptions I had when I was doing my experiments. Whatever his
methods of monitoring my connection, it was obviously not even close to
being correct. I have since spoken to the engineer who wrote
that letter, and he does not know why his monitoring of my connection
only produced ONE "carrier loss", in view of what I told him as stated above. 

17:
He then says that he and "others" at Webtv "talked it over" and based on
"previous conversations" (with ME?). THEY NOW BELIEVE I AM EXPERIENCING
THESE INTERRUPTIONS BECAUSE OF THE LOCAL ISP'S TIMEOUTS. I can tell you
that in all my many conversations withthis engineer, as well as the head
engineer, we NEVER, EVER even touched on the fact that the local ISP had
these types of "timeouts" in place, or the fact that I was experiencing
these interruptions during writing emails of 30 minutes or more
duration, or that I ever told him I was getting these interruptions
"every 30 minutes". he did not know that "fact" until I told the Webtv
rep all about my discoveries, that same afternoon as his letter to me. "NOTE: he now says that they are indeed giving me credit for this "discovery". I think I deserve it, pardon my lack of humility, here! And I will eat my Webtv box if this "theory" of mine turns out to NOT show that this is, in fact, the MAJOR cause of this problem for ALL of you as well.

18:
I now believe, after talking to the
engineer, that the Webtv engineers never really considered that the
local ISP timeouts may possibly be the cause of the "mysterious" 'false
CALL WAITING interruptions" problem. It took little ol' me, a webtv user with absolutely no computer knowledge, to analyze this problem (almost to death!) until I finally came up with the MOST LIKELY cause of this problem. (or, perhaps, what MAY turn out to be the major cause. I will exercise at least a little "healthy self-doubt" here, ok?)

But, in my opinion, the engineers, who have so brilliantly presented this wonderful product to us, were certainly not exercising their full creative abilities on this issue, to find the cause.

And to that I say this: 
"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows",
Epictetus.

I don't know who "Epictetus" is, but that little piece of wisdom was sent to me in an e-mail the same day I started writing this
announcement, and I thought it applied very well here.

It has been SIX MONTHS now, that we have been enduring these annoying disconnecting problems.

19:
In his letter he also states that they can do nothing about these timed
disconnections because they are needed for a good reason (I agree), and
it is Webtv's POLICY not to override these timeouts by the ISP's. He
then states that they can do nothing further to help me with this
problem. But please be aware that this particular engineer does not have the last word on Webtv policy. It remains to be seen what Webtv can and will do about it. In my next letter to them, I will propose various solutions, that I do not know will work or not work, to alleviate the problem, or whether my proposed "fixes" will be possible from a technical or "policy" standpoint. SUGGESTIONS from other users may very
well be useful here, so if you have any, please write to me and I will
pass it along to the engineers.


20:
Now I say this to all of you: If you find it acceptable that these
"timeouts" during very legitimate "activities" of writing email, or
viewing a long website, or editing a homepage, SHOULD be interpreted by the Webtv box as legitimate periods of "inactivity" (because we are not
loading or linking anywhere else during that time online) then you will
have to decide if you feel you can live with the disconnections you get.
If you feel this should not be considered an "inactive" activity, then
it is up to you to take it up with Webtv, and object to their "policy".

21:
To conclude: all of the above is my opinion (although I am not alone in
this opinion) and analysis of the interruptions problem. Please take it
for whatever it is worth to you. Do the experiments, if you wish, and if
you do, and find the same results as did I, or even find different
results, I wold very much like to hear from you, and would appreciate it
if you would write to me about what you have discovered in your own
situation. But at thispoint, I really want to wash my hands of the whole
affair, and say I gave it my best shot--which is, I feel, alot more than
the engineers at Webtv have done.

22:
I must end here, but if you wish, after doing the experiments and
finding that you get disconnected in 30 minute intervals while doing ANY
activity on Webtv, please let me know and I will send you a tip on how
to possibly avoid the interruptions before the 30 minute limit. 

Thank you for taking the time to read this very long announcement, and
if you any questions, please feel free to write me at
marionrose3@webtv.net, any time.

Thank you, Marion Rose (just another webtv user).