Correspondence Relating to my Leaving KYGenWeb

X-Sender: trice@vci.net
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:13:34 -0500
To: kygen-l@sirius.dsenter.com
From: Nancy Trice 
Subject: KYGEN: Ky Archives 
Sender: owner-kygen-l@sirius.dsenter.com
Reply-To: Nancy Trice 


Hi all... I've heard from several of you concerning the archives
directories for the counties. I'm working on several things to get us
going... 

I.  I will be establishing a mail list for us to discuss the archives
without bothering those of you who won't be handling your counties.

2.  I have made arrangements at rootsweb to obtain passwords for each of
the counties for you.  If your county page is already on the rootsweb
server a password won't be required. Brian will set it up in your current
directory where you can get to the archives directory directly from your
county directory.  If your county pages are not on rootsweb you'll receive
an acct and password from Brian.

3.  I have been working on a guidelines page and will have it up ASAP.
I'll post a message when it's there.

I would like to request that each of the county coordinators send me an
email ASAP indicating whether or not you want to handle your county archive
directory.  If you want to handle it as an extention of your county pages I
need to know, and if you don't I need to know that as well so I can assign
additional counties to those CC's that want them or find other volunteers
to handle them.  I don't want to give them to someone else if you want to
handle it for your counties.

Please put Xxxx Archives in the subject line, and at this point a simple
yes, no or maybe will do.  If yes, let me know if you are on rootsweb now
and I'll go ahead and tell Brian to get you set up.

For those of you with additional questions about the archives procedures,
please visit the USGenWeb Archives Guideline page at: 
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/timetodo.htm

The Ky guideline page I'm working on will also have a link to it as well as
a few quidelines for the current setup for Ky.

Thanks guys,
nt

To which I responded privately:

At 03:13 PM 9/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I would like to request that each of the county coordinators send me an
>email ASAP indicating whether or not you want to handle your county archive
>directory.  If you want to handle it as an extention of your county pages I

I suspect you know my answer.  :-)  If it didn't involve participation in 
USGenWeb, I'd do it in a Trice (you should pardon the expression).

I'm concerned, though, that you are equating membership in the KYGenWeb 
Project as de facto participation in USGenWeb.


X-Sender: trice@vci.net
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:01:42 -0500
To: Jeff Murphy 
From: Nancy Trice 
Subject: Re: KYGEN: Ky Archives 

At 07:29 PM 9/18/97 -0700, you wrote:

>I'm concerned, though, that you are equating membership in the KYGenWeb
>Project as de facto participation in USGenWeb.
>

KyGenWeb is part of the USGenWeb project Jeff.  That was accomplished when
you were the state coordinator and established the USGenWeb project.  The
fact that you resigned as Ky state coordinator and US coordinator didn't
change that fact.

How's that new baby doing?  Glad it's you and not me... don't think I could
cope with a little one again... or the 2am feedings... or the diapers... or
the crying... 

Later,
nt

My quick response was:

At 12:01 PM 9/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>KyGenWeb is part of the USGenWeb project Jeff.  That was accomplished when
>you were the state coordinator and established the USGenWeb project.  The
>fact that you resigned as Ky state coordinator and US coordinator didn't
>change that fact.

But Muhlenberg Co. is not part of USGenWeb.  It is a part of KYGenWeb.  
And just because I have an interest in that county does not mean that I 
have an interest in supporting the USGenWeb Archives.  So I restate my 
concern:

>>I'm concerned, though, that you are equating membership in the KYGenWeb
>>Project as de facto participation in USGenWeb.

Let's not be confused on this issue.  At the point you decide that we 
have all become participants in USGenWeb, you leave me no choice but to 
disconnect myself from KYGenWeb.  I will NOT be associated with USGenWeb, 
except as creator.  It's a little moral blind spot, I know, but having 
morals has always been a problem for the leadership of USGenWeb, one way 
or another.

I encourage you to rethink your stance.  It seems to me that you have 
confused which hat you are wearing at which time.  No one doubts your 
enthusiasm for USGenWeb; you've made that clear.  But you have to decide 
if it extends to each county coordinator under KYGenWeb.  To me, it does 
not.  My position in this is unalterable: I will have nothing to do with 
USGenWeb, period.  It has become something to be ashamed of, precisely 
because of the way it has been mismanaged.

Are you trying to get me out of KYGenWeb?  There is no surer way than 
to insist that I must consider myself to be part of USGenWeb.  I invite 
you to leave me alone to manage Muhlenberg Co. as best I can.  If you 
can't do that, let me know so I can make whatever arrangements I must.

X-Sender: trice@vci.net
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:45:18 -0500
To: Jeff Murphy 
From: Nancy Trice 
Subject: Re: KYGEN: Ky Archives 

Jeff, 

I have discarded most of the messages from the original kygenweb and
usgenweb mail lists so this is from memory.  Perhaps you still have them
and can go back and pull out whatever messages are pertinent to the subject
tho.

During the first couple of months of KyGenWeb we began having discussions
about page requirements, logos, etc.  As I recall, I was so enthusiastic
about the project that I jumped in to give you a hand in any way I could to
help make it a success.  I remember that when I became the page evaluator
committee coordinator, I was answering the same questions over and over
again for the new people coming on board and set up the "rules" page where
everyone could go for the basic information on the project.  I put the page
up and sent you an email to check it out and let me know if it met with
your approval. (I have a copy of your response back to me that it was a
good idea and the page was ok.)  One of the requirements was that the
KyGenWeb Logo was a requirement.  Later, when you began the USGenWeb page,
we began using the GenWeb logo and someone played with it making several
different variations of it.  

This is where I need help if you still have any of the original mail
list... I recall discussion that everyone was encouraged to use one of the
logos on their page and if and when an official USGenWeb logo was adopted
everyone would be expected to put it on their page.  As a result of the
discussion it was incorporated into the original "rules" page. This was all
during your tenure.  (Although I don't have copies of the discussion that I
can find, I know it took place since I would not have taken it upon myself
to add it to the rules page without your approval since you were the head
honcho at the time.) Several months after you resigned an official logo was
voted on and adopted.  I also remember some discussion that a link to the
US page would not be a requirement since you would have a link to it on the
Ky page and it was a requirement that everyone link to the state page.

My point is, KyGenWeb was made a part of USGenWeb by all of us during your
tenure due to the above discussions.  Most of us have become further
involved with USGenWeb by becoming coordinators for other states and or
counties.  Some have elected to remain with just their original KyGenWeb
county.  IMHO, if anyone is part of KyGenWeb they are part of USGenWeb.

I'm not trying to get rid of you Jeff... I never have, and knowing how you
feel I have not asked you to follow the rules established during your
tenure about including the USGenWeb logo on your page, although I should
have.  I have "left you alone" as you put it, to manage it and your
biography project.

If you still have any of the above discussions and can provide me with a
copy of anything that shows that my memory on any of this is incorrect, I
would appreciate it if you would forward them to me.

KyGenWeb is part of USGenWeb...  that's a given, IMHO.

I hope that you will reconsider your position concerning the Muhlenberg Co
page and KyGenWeb/USGenWeb. Your page has been a model for all of us and I
would hate to have to unlink it and find another coordinator for the
county, but that is up to you.  

nt

So, given no choice, I responded in the KYGenWeb mailing list.  After 
quoting from previous messages to show what the discussion had been 
up to this time, I wrote:

Goodbye, all.  I see that I'm being removed from the KYGenWeb Project.  
It's been fun, right up to this point.

I hope those of you who link to the Muhlenberg Co. page will continue 
to do so.

As long as we have reached this point in our relationship, let me say a 
few things that may be of interest to those of you not exposed to the 
vagaries of USGenWeb when all the power politics were being played.

The creation of the KYGenWeb Project was based on two things: my 
successful Muhlenberg Co. page, and answer to prayer.  (I'd like 
not to be obliged to say that, but I can't very well take credit 
for something when I didn't have the idea in the first place; so 
God gets the credit, and I get what I deserve pretty much, too.)  
When Bill Couch decided to imitate us with his Arkansas page, with 
my complete support and approval, he and I discussed going ahead with 
a comprehensive project that included every state.  I encouraged him 
to do it, since I had my hands full with the details of the KYGenWeb 
Project; he said I should.  In the end, I set up the USGenWeb Project, 
based on our success in KY.

In the process of developing USGenWeb, as Nancy said, many people from 
KYGenWeb supported the idea by taking other states or other counties 
within those states.  But a new note of power politics was introduced 
into that project - one that has not reared its ugly head in KYGenWeb 
until now.  The details of all this I have refrained from publishing, 
although you can look for a new page to appear shortly to cover that 
omission.  Basically, a group of people decided they didn't like the 
way USGenWeb was being run, and thought the best thing (for them) was 
to remove me as head.  These conspiring individuals were successful.  
I was in fact so hurt by the way it was done that I abandoned leadership 
of KYGenWeb at the same time, in order to remove myself from any 
participation whatsoever as touching USGenWeb.  It was me who asked 
Nancy to take it over.  I wanted nothing further to do with them.  
Since then I have refrained from mentioning them in our mailing list, 
or becoming involved in some of the USGenWeb discussions that have taken 
place here, when properly they belonged in other forums.

That was a year ago, last July.

Now the head of KYGenWeb tells me that I can no longer be left apart from 
the vagaries of USGenWeb - that KYGenWeb is a part of that, and thus all 
counties are a part of it.  You can read what she has said herself, 
above.  If she has to unlink my page, why, that is up to me.  (Strangely, 
I would have thought that would be up to her.)  But it is clear that she 
intends to do that, because I refuse to have anything to do with 
something I didn't create.  And believe me, with USGenWeb in the shape 
it is in now, I didn't create it - as is.  What I created bears almost 
no resemblance to the political entity that has become USGenWeb.

All this stems from the same thing that was the last straw in USGenWeb - 
the Archives.  You recall Nancy wanted each of us to handle the archives 
for the county we coordinated.  My response to that is what triggered all 
this.  Did I ever mention how much I love the Archives?  No?  It's a 
great idea, but should never have been appended to the USGenWeb Project.  
(That was the reason the KY Biographies Project was kept away from 
KYGenWeb: it didn't belong there.  We all had enough to worry about 
without some archivist creating more for us to do.)  Now the Archives 
have gotten appended to the KYGenWeb Project.  How did that happen?  If 
I was a John Bircher, I would claim the Council on Foreign Relations was 
somehow involved.

The only thing I will miss is the feeds from the automated query system.  
I would feel bad about using that, but then I created the web page and 
the form to get the queries back to John.  And the database of addresses 
used to distribute it.  He created the distribution system.  And if I can 
do it once for USGenWeb, surely I can replicate it for my own Muhlenberg 
Co. page.

Giving up Muhlenberg Co. is something I will *not* do.  My father told 
the story about us kids and chicken: "I've retreated from the leg to the 
thigh, from the thigh to the breast, and from the breast to the ass-end 
of the chicken, and I'm damned if I'll give that up!"  Same thing with 
Muhlenberg.  Any attempt to replace my county - obviously the intent is 
there - with something inferior will be handled with my usual panache.  
Muhlenberg needs KYGenWeb about as much as KYGenWeb needs USGenWeb.

To those of you who have been involved with KYGenWeb from the beginning, 
I cannot begin to properly express my appreciation of all you've done for 
genealogy.  I get a lot of compliments for creating this thing, but we 
all know that I really didn't.  It was a team effort, where each of us 
did the best we could to make our own counties work - and gave a little 
time to making KYGenWeb work too, over and above.  None of this would 
have been possible without all of you.  We did something together that 
we could all be proud of, that made our county pages more unified, and 
that brought a sense of unity to the genealogy of Kentucky.  Together, 
we did something great.  I would not like the history of this project 
to be lost.

At the same time, I would like to see the history of what is happening 
now to be retained in an accurate form.  This is not my decision.  It 
is Nancy's.  I have done nothing different with my Muhlenberg Co. page 
since July of last year.  Where is the mighty need to cut me off now?

But all this rhetoric gets us nowhere.  I would hope that - in fact, I 
expect - that the Project will survive nicely without me.  It was 
designed to survive the loss of any supposedly key member.  I hope you 
all keep doing what you do best: managing your county pages for the 
benefit of KY genealogists.  I intend to do the same.  If I can't do 
it within the scope of KYGenWeb, well then, I can't.  The tens of 
thousands of hours I've devoted to this and other web genealogical 
projects, joined with all the hours from all of you, have already 
helped.  We have queries.  We have lookup volunteers, those of us 
that weren't frightened out of it by later USGenWeb leadership.  And 
most of all, we have a huge network of friends.

So, as I am sent shuffling through the door with my retirement papers 
handed to me, I think I should leave some vital parting words.  Like 
Patrick Henry's "Give me liberty or give me death!"  Or Nathan Hale's 
"I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country."  I 
have it: "Remember my dad's chicken!"

Oh, and one last thing.  I don't believe it will do any good to try 
to argue Nancy into changing her position.  So before both of you who 
were going to fire off that hot email do so, please consider the die 
cast, and move on.  I am assuming I'll be cut off momentarily from the 
mailing list, so I won't see it either.  Best wishes to everyone.


The following was the reply from Nancy, cc:ed to the mailing list:

X-Sender: trice@vci.net
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:41:55 -0500
To: Jeff Murphy 
From: Nancy Trice 
Subject: Re: KYGEN: Ky Archives 
Cc: kygen-l@sirius.dsenter.com, billc@osage.astate.edu

Jeff... you do me a disservice.  I DID NOT and AM NOT asking you to leave
KyGenWeb.  Further, nothing was said about you, or any other KyGenWeb
county coordinator, having to assume the archives directory for their
counties.  Another volunteer can be found to handle any of the county
archive directories, just as they were found to handle the KyGenWeb
counties.  There are several Ky county coordinators who have declined to
handle the archives for their county or counties, for one reason or
another, and that is fine with me.  I have not said that being part of
KyGenWeb means that anyone HAS TO  embrace the Archives or be involved with
it.  I also did not say that anyone HAS TO embrace USGenWeb.  What I did
say, is that IMHO KyGenWeb is a part of USGenWeb and was made so by the
discussions on the KyGenWeb project mail list during your tenure when you
started the USGenWeb.  If my memory on this is incorrect I again ask you to
forward  the appropriate emails to me.  Even if this is not correct, I
think the visitors to KyGenWeb and our pages associate us as being a part
of the larger project, and as state coordinator for KyGenWeb and county
coordinator for Hopkins Co. I certainly do.  I think that most of the
county coordinators do as well.

You said:
>>>Let's not be confused on this issue.  At the point you decide that we have
>>>all become participants in USGenWeb, you leave me no choice but to
>>>disconnect myself from KYGenWeb.  

I again ask you to reconsider.  I DO NOT WANT to unlink your Muhlenberg Co
page.  I DO NOT WANT you to resign from KyGenWeb.  I also don't plan on
removing you from the kygen-l mail list at this time unless you ask me to.
If you decide that you do not want to be part of KyGenWeb, that is your
decision to make.  I would assume that if you want to "disconnect" yourself
from KyGenWeb you would remove the logo and KyGenWeb information etc from
your page and unsub yourself from the mail list or request that I do so.
If and when you do I'll unlink the page and find another coordinator, the
same as I would do if any other coordinator decided to leave the project.
As long as the page looks like a KyGenWeb page and you are subscribed to
the state list and have not ASKED ME to unlink the page or unsub you, I'll
leave it as it is.  

I have asked you to reconsider and remain with KyGenWeb.  If you don't want
to that's your decision to make Jeff, not mine... and I won't stand still
and say nothing while you try to make me out as the bad guy on this list
with the other county coordinators.

As to the 2 others that Jeff said was ready to fire off a hot email to me,
please do so... IF you are a KyGenWeb county coordinator.
nt


In the meantime, some of the peanut gallery was getting into the act:

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:38:53 -0400
X-Sender: durp@mail.one.net
To: Jeff Murphy 
From: Pam Carey 
Subject: Re: KYGEN: Ky Archives 
Cc: kygen-l@sirius.dsenter.com

A little out of context, I know, but here's my impressions.....

The state coordinator wrote:
>>I hope that you will reconsider your position concerning the Muhlenberg Co
>>page and KyGenWeb/USGenWeb. Your page has been a model for all of us and I
>>would hate to have to unlink it and find another coordinator for the
>>county, but that is up to you.  


And Jeff responded:
>>>Let's not be confused on this issue.  At the point you decide that we have
>>>all become participants in USGenWeb, you leave me no choice but to
>>>disconnect myself from KYGenWeb.


Then he added:
>So, as I am sent shuffling through the door with my retirement papers
>handed to me   ... snip

A bit dramatic, don't you think?

This was clearly your choice, Jeff - I quoted your own words.  I don't see
where anybody forced you to do anything.  All the state coordinator did was
ask for some help with one of her many monumental tasks.  The mere mention
of the word "Archives", however, got your hackles up and rekindled an old
hatred that you haven't let go of.  The fact that you can't let it go - is
in itself very, very sad.

When we were asked to indicate whether we'd be able to take over for our
county in the Archives, you could have simply said "No" - for any reason,
and continued on as you have.  Instead of 'acting', though, you RE-acted.

Since you like euphemisms, I'll leave you with one of my own:  
"Life isn't about what happens to you, but how you choose to REACT to what
happens to you."  

Nobody did anything wrong by asking for help with the Archives, and the
request certainly wasn't directed at you personally, or intended to upset
you.  We all got a copy.  It's obvious that you're the one who started this
whole conversation - by jumping on the mention of the Archives, I'm sure.
You even made it the subject of your farewell speech.  What's wrong here is
your impulsivity and over-reaction, and the possible embarassment that
anyone may feel because of your choice of words and actions.  

For more than a year now, you've been nothing more than a county coordinator
(again ... your choice).  Other county coordinators have come and gone, but
none felt it necessary to give a farewell speech ... I have to wonder why
you did.  It would almost appear that you were trying to embarass someone.
I hope not.  That would be pretty low.

As they say, we only get one shot at life.  We can try to make it pleasant
and productive, or we can wallow in self-pity and begrudge every slight -
whether personal or not, real or imagined.  Again, it all comes down to
choices - and we each have to make them for ourselves.  You've made yours clear.

In the past, I've been your fiercest supporter and defender.  This time, my
friend, I'm afraid you don't deserve it.  This fuse has been sputtering for
a very long time.  We've all been waiting and watching for the "Big Bang".
Why?  Because anyone who knows you, knows that you haven't let the past go.
Perhaps it's time for a clean break - perhaps it's best that you go.  I just
hope you're mature enough to do it quietly. 

Pam


Did I do Nancy a disservice?  I sent her this query privately:

Well, I honestly don't know where to go from here.

My reaction to your messages was based on several things:

1.  You insist that KYGenWeb counties are a part of (and therefore under 
the administration of, to a degree) USGenWeb.  That approach is absolutely 
intolerable to me.

2.  In passing, when talking about not requiring me to conform to 
standards coming from USGenWeb, you said "Maybe I should have."  What 
does that mean?  I took it to mean that you intended to do so.

3.  Based on that, there is no way (I felt) you could let me continue as 
county coordinator with KYGenWeb.  You've made the point (#1) over and 
over again, with no apparent allowance for those of us who refuse to buy 
into USGenWeb.  Hence my farewell letter.

4.  Now you are saying you never intended to get rid of me, that leaving 
was all my idea, and that therefore the decision to remain is all my 
idea, or not.

So, I'm pretty confused about what you expect.  If you don't want me out 
of KYGenWeb, why the insistance that I have to believe I'm part of 
USGenWeb?  If I was in your position, and wanted someone to leave, and 
they had said they could not in conscience remain in the project under 
those circumstances, I'd hammer on that point, too.  But you've said 
specifically you don't want me to leave.  Why, then, do you insist that 
I must consider myself to be part of USGenWeb - which I've made clear is 
intolerable to me?

You've asked me to reconsider my position.  Arnie Dodge suggested now is 
the time for conciliation.  :-)  He's a good guy.  But there are some 
principles that are more important than "getting along".  For me, this 
relationship to USGenWeb is one of those principles, as I've made clear 
from the beginning.  I find myself unable to accept that as a desirable 
stance.  Like Thomas More, you've placed me in a position where my 
silence on the subject is taken to be assent, and my conscience doesn't 
permit that.  So there is no change of position that I can reconsider; 
until you made the point that every county falls under USGenWeb in a way 
that I could not ignore it, I was able to function within KYGenWeb.  But 
I can't ignore this.  It is a matter of conscience.

You don't want me to leave, but you won't permit me in conscience to 
remain.  How is it my decision?

If you are unwilling to leave me the illusion of independence, you surely 
don't expect me to remain.  Yet that seems exactly what you have asked me 
to do.  How do you reasonably expect me to stay, knowing how I feel about 
USGenWeb?

And yet, you maintain that you have "not said that being part of KyGenWeb 
means that anyone HAS TO embrace the Archives or be involved with it.  I 
also did not say that anyone HAS TO embrace USGenWeb."  Well, it looks 
to me as if you have.  If not, why have you asked for supporting 
documentation, if not to justify that position?

I'm not saying anything different here than I have said from the 
beginning.  Your position seems to me to have changed.  I'm going 
to put it to you the way you've put it to me: "If you don't want to 
that's your decision to make Jeff, not mine... and I won't stand still 
and say nothing while you try to make me out as the bad guy on this list 
with the other county coordinators."  It is not my decision to make, 
Nancy.  That decision was made long before, when I decided never again 
to have anything to do with USGenWeb or the individuals responsible for 
the coup.

Pam expects that I should "get over it".  That's not going to happen.  
I view those people who screwed USGenWeb the way a father views his 
daughter's rapist.  No one goes around telling him to "get over it".  
Rather they say, "Don't act on it."  Watching you buy into USGenWeb's 
current approach to life as viable has been painful.  I wish you would 
think it through before you drag KYGenWeb into the miasma too.  Why do 
you think I'm so opposed to it?

YOU make the decision.  Remember that my goal in all this is to support 
those things which are good for genealogy, and to oppose those things 
which will ultimately damage it.  Permitting USGenWeb to die the long 
lingering death that has been inadvertantly planned for it by it's 
administrators over the past year is a lot less merciful than openly 
acknowledging that it has completely departed from its original goals, 
and that those departures are damaging.


Nancy responded to my message private message in private:

X-Sender: trice@vci.net
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:06:34 -0500
To: Jeff Murphy 
From: Nancy Trice 
Subject: Re: Muhlenberg Co.

Jeff...  I say again it is up to you what you want to do.  I did not ask
you to leave and am not asking you to leave now.  

Let me try to draw a parallel as to what my position is.

You are a resident and a citizen of whatever city, you live in.  You are
also considered a resident and citizen of whatever county and state you
live in and of a still larger area... the United States.  The fact that you
live in Redmond and that Redmond is in Oregon makes you no less a citizen
of the US.  

The same holds true with KyGenWeb/USGenWeb.  Your Muhlenberg Co page is
part of the KyGenWeb Project.  It is also a small part of the USGenWeb
Project.  That is the way that the entire project was created and the way
that the visitors to all of the county pages and all of the state pages
consider it.  The fact that you have a problem with the management of
USGenWeb, and now apparently with KyGenWeb, makes it no less so. You helped
to establish the rules by which we would govern ourselves, both in KyGenWeb
and USGenWeb.  You say that the USGenWeb Project is nothing like what you
created.  That may be so.  The project has grown immensely.  It has
experienced many growing pains during the past year, and all of us that are
involved in it on a day to day basis have grown with it, learned from
mistakes made, and gone on to make it what it is today, and despite what
you say and/or how you feel, it is something to be proud of.  The USGenWeb
volunteers have created something bigger than even you ever dreamed of.
No, it's not EXACTLY what you had envisioned, but that doesn't make it bad.
 I'm sure that the United States today is not EXACTLY what our founding
fathers thought it would be either.

You over-reacted to my message the other day concerning the archives.  I
never suggested in that post, or at any other time, that anyone had to
embrace the archives. What I did say is that I needed help with the
archives and asked the county coordinators if they wanted to be the ones to
handle the archive directories for their counties.  You could have said no
and let it go at that but you over reacted and fired back at me on the
list. Frankly I think that was rather childish of you, and it was also
childish of me when I fired back at you.  As KyGenWeb state coordinator I
should have kept my cool a little better, but that is all water over the
dam now isn't it?

As to your question # 2: >2.  In passing, when talking about not requiring
me to conform to standards
>coming from USGenWeb, you said "Maybe I should have."  What does that mean?
> I took it to mean that you intended to do so. 
One of the rules that was established within just a few weeks of the start
of USGenWeb was that if and when an official logo was adopted for the
USGenWeb project that it was to be displayed on our county pages.  If I am
wrong in my memory of that please send me the emails to show me, but I know
I am not wrong because I would not have taken it upon myself to add that to
the page.  It was discussed and we all agreed that it would be a
requirement.  Several months after you resigned as National Coordinator
last year a contest was held to select a logo for the project.  I announced
it on kygen-l, giving everyone the URL of where to find the logo and the
variations of it and to add it to their pages and remove the Gary Hoffman
logo that had caused so many problems.  It was something that you did not
do.  Knowing how you felt when you resigned, I never pressed the issue with
you, even when the evaluation committee brought it to my attention several
different times.  I should have.  I should have told you then that your
page was not in compliance with the rules that had been established, but I
didn't.  I kept hoping that you would do so out of respect for me if for no
other reason.  I'm sorry now that I didn't...  I ended up giving many of
the other county coordinators the impression that I was showing favoritism
toward you and your Muhlenberg Co page, and I guess I was.  I was trying my
best to hold the project together after you tried to destroy it and I
didn't want to rock the boat.  

Now it's a different story.  With your dumb reaction to my request for
volunteers and my dumb reaction to your reaction, everyone knows that your
page is not in compliance with the rules established when we began the
project last year and I can't turn my back anymore and pretend that I don't
know it because everyone knows that I know.  I do not want you to resign
from KyGenWeb.  I've said so repeatedly.  I think it would be a terrible
loss for KyGenWeb.  Having said that, I'm sure you know that I have to do
what I think is best for the overall project, just as you did before you
resigned as coordinator.  I am going to ask you to put the USGenWeb logo on
your page.  Doing so does not mean that you are embracing the USGenWeb
project or it's management, only that you are following the rules.  I'm
asking you to follow the same rules that all the rest of the coordinators,
in Ky and the other 49 states, have to follow to be included in the
project.  I can do no less.  As you said, it's a matter of principal now.

KyGenWeb is a part of USGenWeb.  It has been since the day USGenWeb
started.  It might not be what you envisioned but it's here to stay and
growing bigger and better every day with the help and committment of
several thousand volunteers. 

Every coordinator has to make the decision of whether they want to be
involved with KyGenWeb, USGenWeb, or any of the other state projects. If
they do we will welcome them.  If they don't that's their decision to make.
 Someone can be involved with USGenWeb without being a part of one of the
state projects but if they are part of a state project they are part of the
USGenWeb project.  

I hope you will reconsider and remain with KyGenWeb.  If you decide your
conscience and/or your principals won't let you I'll understand.  I would
like to see you get beyond the problems of last year, putting it behind you
and moving on.  It does no good to keep harboring the resentments Jeff,
except to possibly give you an ulcer, and life is too short for that.  

nt


So obviously I could not stay.  It is just a matter of when she decides 
to pull the plug.  In the meantime Pam kept yapping at my heels:

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:27:52 -0400
X-Sender: durp@mail.one.net
To: kybiog@starbase21.com
From: Pam Carey 
Subject: Fwd: [Majordomo results: who kygen-l]

>X-From_: Majordomo-Owner@sirius.dsenter.com  Tue Sep 23 16:28:02 1997
>Members of list 'kygen-l':
>
>   ... snip
>
>kybiog@starbase21.com


You gave a very grandiose farewell speech.  I believe your first words were
"Goodbye All".  Yet you're still here!?!

As I see it, you now have 2 choices:
1.  If you've changed your mind and decided to stay, then a *public* apology
to Nancy is in order.  A sincere one.  And hopefully short.

or
2. Do as you said you were going to do - quit.  There won't be any gold
watch.  You made a fool out of yourself, and tried to take out our leader.
You're not exactly a "favored son" right now.

The first option will get you some of the forgiveness you need, and possibly
regain you a small portion of respect.  The second option would provide the
closure we all need, and allow you to build a new following ... one that
doesn't know your history.  It would give us all a fresh start - including you.

There *is* a 3rd option - stay and do neither of the above.  That's really
no option, though, if you would ever want to be respected again.

It's up to you.

Pam


But she later sent this:

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:07:44 -0400
X-Sender: durp@mail.one.net
To: kybiog@starbase21.com
From: Pam Carey 
Subject: An apology

I owe you an apology for my last message.

Nancy wrote me after she received my message that you forwarded her.  She
didn't know that I'd written you, and I didn't know that you two had been
corresponding.

I may have misjudged you.  According to Nancy, you've both been discussing
things civilly, and you're really struggling with this.  I'm sorry.  I
assumed that you intended to leave, and that the only reason you hadn't left
was because you were up to no good.  I never stopped to consider that you
might be staying because you wanted to still be a part of things.  In my own
defense, I have to say (and you have to admit) that your farewell message
was very bitter.  That's all I had to go on.  I attributed your bitterness
to ego, though, not pain.  That was my mistake, not yours.

I also used some pretty strong words with you - not all of them flattering.
I'd like to apologize for that, too.  If you're struggling with this, then
in effect what I did was kick you when you were down.  I'm ashamed of myself
for that.  I don't intentionally do that to anybody.

I don't know if it's possible for us to ever be friends again, but I hope
that you'll forgive me this time.  And that there'll be no animosity between
us.  

I don't hate you, I don't dislike you.  I think your hatred for USGenWeb is
misguided and I think you react to your hatred too quickly - injuring
innocent people in the process.  That's my only beef with you.

I also think the one you really hate is Linda Lewis, and that USGenWeb is
just a painful reminder of what you feel she and what I'll call "her
followers", some of them previous friends of yours, did to you.  But
USGenWeb, the entity, is not the enemy.  USGenWeb is a group of thousands of
volunteers and visitors.  It's not Linda and her crew.

I can understand you not wanting to support anything that Linda and the
others have their hands in, and for that reason I can understand what I
assume is your struggle right now ... how can you remain in KyGenWeb (which
is touted as being a part of USGenWeb), yet stay true to yourself?  But how
can you leave?  If you stayed, wouldn't it appear that you were in support
of USGenWeb, and wouldn't support of USGenWeb be the same as support of "them"?

Not necessarily, not if you think of USGenWeb as being made up of thousands
of volunteers putting in hundreds of thousands of hours, doing something
they love, and of the public who uses it.  These volunteers and the public
could easily survive without USGenWeb.  USGenWeb could easily survive
without Linda et.al.  But USGenWeb could NOT survive without the volunteers
and visitors.  So you tell *me* what USGenWeb is, and whether it deserves
support or not.  

In an attempt to show you that I think I know how you feel, I'll tell you
that I hate Bill Clinton with a passion.  To me, he's a spineless, lying
adulterer and more, and I'll never, EVER, feel any differently.  I can
neither forgive nor forget what he's done in the past, and I'm amazed that
others can.  Yet I proudly wave my flag at the 4th of July parade.  In other
words, I may hate the person in charge, but I don't hate what he's the
leader of, and will proudly display it's symbol.  I'd never degrade the
U.S., and would never consider leaving it just because Billy Boy's in
charge.  I hope you see the parallel to your situation, and might start
looking at it this way.

Whether you stay or go, you're going to have to deal with it, because this
hatred will follow you.  You can't escape it.  I still feel that if you
can't focus your hatred where it belongs, that it's best that you go.  I
don't feel that way out of nastiness or spite, though.  I hope you
understand that.  You have to agree that if you hate what you're a part of,
it just won't work - for you or anybody else.  And that you can't pretend
that you're not a part of it when the rest of the world believes you are.

My true hope, though, is that you'll be able to work through this.  I'd help
you if I thought you'd let me.

As it is, I've rambled on and on, and gotten far away from my original
intent - which was to apologize.  No matter how this all turns out, I have
no hard feelings.  If anything, I empathize.  I wouldn't want to be in your
shoes, and I'm sorry if I've made things any more difficult for you than
they already are.  *I* was the one who was impulsive this time, and I'm sorry.

Pam


There were some nice comments from a number of others, but in the 
interest of protecting them from possible reprisals, I have omitted 
their messages.

This page hosted by Get your own Free Home Page