Yahoo! Mail - coolguy247365@yahoo.com

A Discussion with Mark Via E-mail

Do Atheists even Know if Atheism is True? Seems like Poor Mark is having Trouble with this Question.
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
From:"Corey Washington" <coolguy247365@yahoo.com>
Subject: Hello
To:JCnot4me@aol.com

Hi Mark,
 
I visited your website. It's quite impressive to say the least. I have a question though: How do you know that atheism is true?
 
Hoping to hear from you,
 
Corey W.
 
PS As a matter of disclosure, I am a Christian and no, I'm not the same Corey Washington that debate Dr. Craig.

Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:09:25 -0400
From:JCnot4me@aol.com
To:"Corey Washington" <coolguy247365@yahoo.com>
CC:robertus365@hotmail.com
Subject: How Know Ath. True???

Hey Corey;

Thanks for writing.

I surprised that none of the arguments or evidence on my web page inspired any questions. I would guess in that case then that you have all the answers, and none of the arguments touched you??? In particular, none of the evidence proving that Jesus was a False Prophet meant anything to you- you were able to read those over and just shrug your shoulders???

As for your question, how do I know that Atheism is true} Atheism is a LACK OF belief in gods, based on the lack of good evidence. I "know" that Atheism is true the exact same way you know there are no green Martians living at the North Pole of the moon: there is no good evidence showing such a claim to be true. And my guess is, you are an avowed Atheist when it comes to gods outside the Christian faith- such as Thor or Zeus. How do you "know" your Atheism in THOSE gods is true???

Let me know what you think.

--mark

Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:26:33 -0700 (PDT)
From:"Corey Washington" <coolguy247365@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: How Know Ath. True???
To:JCnot4me@aol.com

Mark,
 
Thanks for replying. Your website did inspire me to ask a question: "How do you know that Atheism is true?" After all, the chapter you criticize from Craig's books is subtitled: "How do I know Christianity is true?".  So, you shouldn't be surprised nor should you second guess me :0)  I didn't read your website on Jesus being a false prophet. Perhaps, some other time.
 
As for your answer to that question - so, atheism per se is true because it is a lack of belief in gods because of lack of good evidence then? And how can I be an atheist when I believe in at least one God?  Can atheism and Christianity be true at the same time?  And if I am an "atheist" because I don't believe in any God except for the one in the Bible that proves atheism is true then? These aren't rhetorical questions by the way.
 
Corey W.

From:JCnot4me@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:12:15 EDT
Subject: Re: How Know Ath. True??? Take Two
To:coolguy247365@yahoo.com
CC:robertus365@hotmail.com

Hey Again Corey;
Let me try again;
 
How do I know Athiesm is true? I go with the available evidence, and from what I see of the evidence, there is not sufficient evidence for me to support the belief that there are or were gods and goddesses running the universe. 
 
In particular, I can tell you with certainty that there sure ain't no Biblegod running things.
 
 
 
 
---Mark Smith
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:59:24 -0700 (PDT)
From:"Corey Washington" <coolguy247365@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: How Know Ath. True??? Take Two
To:JCnot4me@aol.com

Hello Mark,
 
So, you know atheism is true because there is no sufficient evidence for the existence of god(s), then? I don't mean to be repeating myself I just want a straight answer.
 
Corey W.

What's this?! Mark brings 2 more people into the discussion?!

From:"Robert Hitchcock" <robertus365@hotmail.com>
To:JCnot4me@aol.com, coolguy247365@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: How Know Ath. True??? Take Two
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:33:22 -0700

Dear Mark and Corey: As a Deist-half-way position between your own two misquided worldviews, let me throw my two cents worth into the question about the truth or falsity of atheism. Christians are 99.9% 'atheist' in that they deny the ontological existence of any other Supreme Being{or Beings} than the one Mark calls "Biblegod."  Thus, by defintion Chrisitans are Atheists.  The ancient pagan Romans recognized this to be true when the obstinate Galileans refused to swear allegiance to the Roman Imperium by recognizing the divinity or 'genius' of the Latin God-Man, Augustus Caeser and his royal successors.  The Romans accused the christians of being immoral and ungodly by refusing to accept the existence of other gods, save their peculiar Biblegod-who may or may not be one, two , or three distinct persons.

    Modern Atheism is merely the next logical step in the reductionisitc wordlview of post -Enlightenment Western man.  Contemporary Chrisitans operate in a rational scientific material world and go to great lengths to show that they are rational and scientific men who accept the possibility of some really weird non-material and non-empircal events ocurring a long time ago in a land not so far away-Palsetine.  Modern Chrisitans cannot do miracles and as  their holy texts demands that they beleive that these "rare" events occurred at least once in human hisotry-i.e. the Rez. of Jesus. the bible theist is left in cognitive limbo.  Atheists recognize that all of the avialable evidence {so they asser} is insufficent to empircally validate the god hypothesis, much less "prove" the claims of biblegod to being this one and only universal deity.  Christians on the other hand, mistake their personal subjective experiences are bieng the same as empirical evidnece and demand that non-chrisitans accord them the same status as say two plus two equals four or the existence of the Egyptian Pyramnids.

    I write this because you two essentially{for whatever reason} are talking past each other. There is a Supreme Being who made the Universe and this is a reasonable premise on which to build a worldview,  Unfortuanely, you might not want to "know" this Being as It appears to be uninterseted in our existence and or anoyed when hairless apes assert that they are made in Its image.  Humility and non-dogmatism will serve you well in considering these things.

 

From:MojaveNate@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:54:44 EDT
Subject: Re: How Know Ath. True??? Take Two
To:robertus365@hotmail.com, JCnot4me@aol.com, coolguy247365@yahoo.com

Dear Fred, Wilma, Barney, and Betty

I believe in at least three impossible things every day before breakfast.  Just this morning I asked my dear little dog Bitty into my heart as my personal savior, and she obliged by licking my hand and eating a piece of proffered leftover chicken.  Now, you might be tempted to ask yourself exactly what I mean by this, and I would be tempted to ask the same question.  However, I have learned not to give in to temptation, at least not where canines are involved.

Looking back over a long and satisfyig life, I feel confident that I have uncovered the Mystery behind the universe, and I'll be damned if I'm going to share it with anyone who is not a subscriber to the theory that time is a universal constant.  To hell with Einstein.  For that matter, to hell with Heisenberg.  He was such an uncertain little twit anyway.

Furthermore, and in conclusion, let me say that it has been an honor to serve with you men in the task of unraveling reality, or at least a reasonable facsimile therof.

Yours in secular delirium,
Nathan
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:57:44 -0700 (PDT)
From:"Corey Washington" <coolguy247365@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: How Know Ath. True??? Take Two
To:MojaveNate@aol.com, robertus365@hotmail.com, JCnot4me@aol.com

I'm not so sure why I suddenly got into a conversation with more than just one person. My questions were directly to Mark Smith and to Mark Smith only. Nathan hasn't answered my question and I'm not so sure how relevant his illustration is. But, on the other hand, I'm concerned about Robert who comes from a DEISTIC point of view. Mark, do you actually agree with Robert's e-mail?
 
Corey
 
PS I don't mean to be a party-pooper but I would only like Mark's input. Thank you.
From:"Robert Hitchcock" <robertus365@hotmail.com>
To:coolguy247365@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: How Know Ath. True??? Take Two
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:05:39 -0700

Dear Corey: No Mark doesn't agree with my Deisitc positon, but he occasionally forward's me Chrisitan responses to his website, since Nathan and  I both post on it as we are friends with the godless atheist, Mark Smith! A word to the wise: Corey, if you are sincere in your questions, Mark will respond,, but if, you are a bored Christian philosophical/apologeitcal hack, he will sense your duplicity and refuse further communication as he refuses to " cast his pearls before swine."  Check out his Jesus the False Prophet site-no Christian has been able to refute it in a coheent and logically fashion-as yet!  I wish you the best and hope you kick the Christian habit as your Rabbi is dead and the Real God lives! Robert

P.s. Nathan is just having fun with you and his analogy about his 'personal relationship" with his Dog should be self-evident. For do you not call bibleGod,"Master?"

From:MojaveNate@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:31:10 EDT
Subject: Re: How Know Ath. True??? Take Two
To:robertus365@hotmail.com, coolguy247365@yahoo.com

Greetings

I for one am convinced we are all prisoners of our sensory input and the "self" that we construct from our memories is the culprit of most of our misery.  Is there a personal or impersonal God?  Was there a burning bush?  Jeepers.  Did Buddha jet into the sky on a plume of flame?  Was his mother impregnated by pachydermic deity?

These questions haunt my mind with the regularity of an automatic flush toilet, and leave just as quickly as the turds said toilets disperse.

On a more serious level, I was born into this world same as you, and have been slip sliding toward Death ever since.  As have we all.  From time immemorial thinkers and idiots alike have given Answers to the Big Questions.  Take your pick.  Just dont force your decison down my throat or pound it up my ass. 

Why cant we all just get along?  :)
Nathan

Hey, Mark's Back!

From:JCnot4me@aol.com
Date:Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:12:04 -0400
Subject: Re: How Know Ath. True??? Take Two
To:"Corey Washington"
CC:robertus365@hotmail.com


Wednesday, April 28
Mark here
I think you are getting it.

In the abscense of evidence for the existance of "square circles" the DIS-belief in "square circles" (i.e. atheism) would be the logical choice, the "true" belief.

In the abscense of evidence for the existence of Godzilla, the DIS-belief in Godzilla would be the more correct belief, regardless of how many people claimed (without suffiecient evidence) that Godzilla exist and lives "within their hearts".

--Mark
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:01:33 -0700 (PDT)
From:"Corey Washington" <coolguy247365@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: How Know Ath. True??? Take Two
To:JCnot4me@aol.com

Mark,
 
So, atheism is true because it is a lack of belief in god(s) because there is no sufficient evidence for god(s) then, right?
 
Corey W.

More Conversations with Mark Continues >>>