by TERRY GROSS
Neuwirth plays a vaudevillian charged with killing her husband and her sister. She and other women prisoners tell their stories in song and dance. This original 1975 production went for period clothes, but in the revival, the women are dressed in tight, black, scant outfits, a look that is both timeless and sinister and sexy. Here is Bebe Neuwirth performing the opening number...
(Bebe Neuwirth performs a segment of "All That Jazz")
TG: Bebe Neuwirth, welcome to Fresh Air.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (softly) Thank You.
TG: You know..watching you dance in Chicago, I kept thinking, 'How could you possibly be content in a performance without dancing?' You just dance so wonderfully!
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (laughs) You know, that's actually...y-your actually right. I am not completely content in a performance without dancing. I have been dancing since I was very, very young..and my first stage experiences from the age of seven continuously have been in ballets and dancing and um..so, you're absolutely right, I don't feel like I've given a complete performance unless um... (chuckles), unless I start kickin' my legs around at some point - (laughs) unless I start dancing. So, as much as I have enjoyed some of the other work that I've done, I always feel like something is missing from the experience - something, um, didn't get covered.
TG: Now I know that..I think this is your third Bob Fosse musical. You were in a revival of Sweet Charity. You were in the dance anthology show Dancin'. Um, could you talk a little bit about how Fosse choreography is different - how it uses the body differently than other choreographers that you've worked with.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Hmm.
TG: ...or than ballet even.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Yeah, well actually I find that people who have very strong training in ballet do better actually with the Fosse choreography than those who..w-who lack the, um, the ballet background. (short pause) If you ever saw the guy, and if you saw how he stood and moved around a room, and looked at you when he talked to you, you understand his movement. Um, a lot of it is simply based on his posture. He was a little sloped-shouldered, a little hunched, his hips were a little forward, he was a little knock-kneed and turned in...and um, wildly sexy without being (laughs), you know, in-your-face sexy. He was just a very very - there was something really attractive about him, and it was kind of sly...and um, you know the way he looked up and looked at you. If you get the feel of that, if you understand that - then you understand something about the movements that will..um...make it not - that will fill out the movement. You know, you could technically replicate the steps, but if you don't understand that essence of it, then you're not gonna really make the movement dance.
TG: In-in Fosse choreography, there's a lot of like pelvis swivels, and shoulder swivels, and a lot of elbows moving...
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (overlapping) Yes - a lot of...it's a lot of isolation.
TG: Yeah!
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Yes.
TG: Did you have to learn how to move parts of your body that you hadn't thought of (as) dance parts before...or how to coordinate them in a different way?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (becomes very tickled by Terry Gross's wording and laughs)...Umm, (clears her throat and pauses) No, I have to say, I don't know why. Ever since I saw Fosse choreography when I was thirteen and saw Pippin, I just...uh..that movement spoke to me and it was quite clear and quite, um..(pause)..I just understood it, and um, it made absolute perfect sense. You know, it sounds very simple, but it actually requires a great deal of control, and uh, control physically - you know that a ballet dancer has especially the ability to be pulled up and very centered. Uh, and also uh-uh-uh (laughs softly) it requires a control taste wise. Uh, Fosse choreography is never vulgar. It's very, very sexy. It's very, very sensual, but it is never vulgar. There is a line - you could be doing hip isolations, you could be doing shoulder isolations - these very, very sexy moves, but there is something elegant about them always. They could even be part of a show that's based on vaudeville, which is a pretty bawdy medium, but there is something that is not, uh, just not vulgar. It is elegant.
TG: If you're just joining us, my guest is Bebe Neuwirth, and she's now starring in the musical Chicago on Broadway. The cast recording of Chicago has just come out, and I want to play another track from it. I'm gonna play your part of a song called "Cell Block Tango." This takes place in jail where you are being held on charges of murdering your husband and sister. And, um, the part of the song..song that we are going to hear tells your story (they both chuckles softly), so why don't we hear it?
(Bebe Neuwirth performs a segment of "Cell Block Tango")
TG: That's Bebe Neuwirth from the new cast recording of Chicago. Um, you have a very deep, strong voice. Now, do you think your voice has affected the kinds of roles that you have been considered appropriate for - and I'm thinking that often on Broadway the women's leading roles seem to be written for a higher voice.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Hmm, yeah, they have this sort of formula with, uh, most musicals - most classically, um, structured musicals, the leading lady is a soprano, and uh, who, you know, doesn't necessarily dance. Maybe she'll move around a little, but she's not a dancer - she's a singer and she's an ingenue and a soprano. And then she's got her best friend who's got a belting voice, and she's a great dancer, and she's tough as nails and has a heart of gold. And she's funny.
TG: God, that's so true, isn't it?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Yeah..so, I've played a lot of those parts (laughs).
TG: The best friend?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Yeah.
TG: (In) What musicals are you the best friend?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (overlapping) Tough and nails, heart of gold...um, well, uh, Sweet Charity. Uh, "Nickie Pignatelli" to Sw- to, uh, Charity. Um, even "Sheila" in a way - "Sheila" in A Chorus Line - is a similar type of part. (In) West Side Story is a similar kind of part.
TG: Were you "Anita"?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Hm-hm, yeah. I've done almost all of Chita Rivera's roles (laughs).
TG: That's true (laughs).
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Thank God for Chita Rivera!
TG: 'Cause she originated the part in Chicago?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Yes. (pause) There is (a) number called "Velma Takes the Stand" where "Velma," my character, describes what she thought she just might do once she gets, uh-uh, takes the stand in her trial. Um, ways to win the jury over (laughs) and um, it's should be very funny- it should be very funny, and um, Chita Rivera was just amazing! I was about fifteen when I saw it and just looking at that stage thinking, "What the? God..." I just couldn't believe what she was doing - she was fantastic.
TG: Describes what happens with the chair.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Uh well, (nervous laugh), um...it's kind of hard to describe. I mean, I dance..with it, on it, around it, on top of it, under it, um, I carry it...I wiggle my butt...I, uh, lay out on it. It's, um, I did a production of Chicago about five and a half years ago with Juliet Prowse in um, Long Beach, California, and Chita Rivera called the theatre on opening night and she said to me, "You make very good friends with that chair." (laughs)
TG: (laughs)
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (through her laughing) That was her advice.
TG: Why don't we hear the song that you were just referring to, "When Velma Takes the Stand." This is Bebe Neuwirth...
(Bebe Neuwirth performs a segment of "When Velma Takes The Stand")
TG: That's Bebe Neuwirth from the new cast recording of the musical Chicago. How does the revival of Chicago compare to the original 1975 production?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (takes a breathe) Well, (pause), we've really, uh, pared it down quite a bit. We let the, um, we let the script, music, and words, and dance speak for themselves. We don't impose any period on the piece...it's - I-I like to think of it as existing in no time. Um...
TG: (interrupting) As opposed to flapper costumes and feathers.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (overlapping) As opposed to...that's right, that's right. And uh...
TG: 'Cause it's originally set in the 1920s?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: That's right. So it's..as a vaudeville show, I mean basically it (stutters) moves as each-each number is a number and um, the orchestra sits onstage in what amounts to a jury box. The, um, the cast members are lined up on either side of the stage, um, upstage to downstage sitting in chairs so that everyone is essentially a witness to what happens - as we are all witnesses in this country to these grave injustices and we see them. And um, it's interesting, I think the message is quite clear. There's beautiful set and beautiful lights that happen, but there's nothing to (slyly) inkabotch it up..there's nothing to, uh, gussy it up. It's really the material, it's a human experience, and I think the audience really, really appreciates that.
TG: My guest is Bebe Neuwirth. She's now starring on Broadway in the revival of Chicago. The cast recording has just come out on CD. We'll talk more after our break. This is Fresh Air.
(BREAK - "Entr'Acte" from the Chicago cast recording is played.)
TG: Back with Bebe Neuwirth. She played "Lilith," Frasier's wife on Cheers. Now she's starring on Broadway in the revival of Chicago. How did you first get the role as "Lilith" on Cheers?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (chuckles) I was in Los Angeles for a couple of months. When we did Sweet Charity on Broadway, we had a run in California - San Francisco and LA - and then we had a few months off while Debbie Allen was finishing her season of Fame, she was our star. And then we were going to start up for Broadway in the spring. So during those months I was in Los Angeles and I thought, "Well, I might as well, you know, see if I can pick up, you know, some television work"...because I had never worke d on television and that was sort of all there was in Los Angeles for me. So it was just a one shot deal on the show, just a one scene in one episode. And, um, I read for it...I didn't think I was right at all for it, but uh, went in and read and...that's what happened.
TG: And then after your performance, they wanted to enlarge the role?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Well, um, the following season, I guess that was in January, so the following season, I was playing on Broadway in Sweet Charity and they called up. They said, "Would you come and do another episode?" So I went out and did another episode. And then, that was in the fall, and then that winter, they called and said, "Oh, could you come and do another episode?" So I said, "Sure." So I went out and did another episode, and then after Sweet Charity closed, they asked me if I would do, like um, oh it was this thing where you would do four episodes and then there was an option to pick you up for a seven out of thirteen - a part-time player on the show. And I had a really hard time deciding whether or not to do that. I mean, I remember sitting backstage during Sweet Charity with Michael Rupert, who was playing "Oscar" in the show, and uh, after I had done an episode or two, and he said, "Now what would you do if they asked you to go out there and be on that show?" And I said, "No way would I go out to Los Angeles and be on a TV show. Forget it. I'm on Broadway, I like Broadway, this is where I'm staying." And, uh, so I deliberated for a very long time about that, and I had some, you know, advice from some people whose opinions I respected, er, were really smart about either me or about show business and decided that it wouldn't be such a bad thing to do. And I'm very glad I did.
TG: You said that when you first read for the role of "Lilith," you didn't think you were right for it. What was the role like that first time, and why didn't you think you were right for the part?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Well, the des- the description of it was um...I don't know...dry, no sense of humor, rigid, hair-slicked-back, intellectual, analytical (laughs)...all this other stuff - you know, unattractive, older - quite a bit older than I was. And, um, all these things we-w-which were a description of a character that I would've never been sent up for. As I said, I was always sent up for, you know, sexy, funny, tough-as-nails, heart-of-gold...you know, dancer, big belt. Um, so, it was a very unusual character description for me. And, um, I actually had a hard time cracking the script for a while and then, um, something, I don't know, some character just occurred to me and really tickled me and made me laugh. So that's what I did at the audition.
TG: See, that's the thing. You found a very funny way of playing somebody who is humorless.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (laughs) Yeah...there's something...
TG: (interrupts) I guess that's the key. So, can you talk a little about how you did that?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (still laughing) I don't know - there's something funny about being humorless, isn't there? (voice lowered, nervously) At least to me, I don't know. I think there is something funny about being really not funny at all.
TG: I thought you were particularly funny during the pregnancy episodes when-when it was as if you were the first woman ever to be pregnant.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (overlapping, laughing) Yeah, yeah right.
TG: And you embodied all that was Mother Earth.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (still laughing) Yeah, yeah, they-they asked me to do some funny stuff on that show. They had great writers, great producers.
TG: Could you talk about the pregnancy episodes?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (takes a breathe) I liked it, this one time we went off to a cabin - Kelsey and I went to, uh, er, you know, "Frasier" and "Lilith" - went off to a cabin, and she was pregnant and I - well I guess this is just 'cause I liked the episodes where I got to sing 'cause I thought it was really funny that Lilith loved to sing. And, um, I think I was singing "My Funny Valentine," pregnant out there in the woods, freezing (chuckles).
TG: (laughs) How did you sing as "Lilith"?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Well, um, I tried to sing pretty well, but I also tried to sing, you know, in her voice.
TG: Could you demonstrate how that sounds?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (laughs loudly and sings) "My Funny Valentine!" (laughs again)
TG: (laughs with her)
BEBE NEUWIRTH: But then they did a lovely thing. One time they had, um, something about "Lilith" - I think the story was that she had taken singing lessons so that she could sing her child. And they did a really sweet thing when, um, she sang this, wh-what was it...it was an Al Jolsen song - "Sunny Boy". She actually got to sing "Sunny Boy" really sweetly to the baby and it made everybody in the bar cry (laughs).
TG: Like, "Climb upon my knee Sunny Boy?"
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (sweetly) Yeah.
TG: Did, uh, were you ever asked to be a regular on Frasier?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (bluntly) No - No, they never asked to be, uh - me to be a regular on Frasier. They don't need me.
TG: (interrupting) But you do make appearances?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Yeah, I go on once in a while, but they really don't need my character on that show. Gosh, they do such a good...they do such a good job with, uh, um, with this world that they've created. Uh...it's - that's fine.
TG: My guest is Bebe Neuwirth. She played "Lilith," Frasier's wife, on Cheers. Now she's starring on Broadway in the revival of Chicago. We'll talk more after our break. This is Fresh Air. (Theme music plays from NBC's Frasier)
TG: Bebe Neuwirth is my guest and, uh, she starred in Cheers as "Lilith," and is now starring on Broadway in the musical Chicago. So you grew up in Princeton? Was-was your father a professor there?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: No, he, uh, he went to school there, um, but he's, uh, he's a mathematician and was working in town. He has taught occasionally there just for fun, but that's - no, he works, he works somewhere else.
TG: Princeton, uh-uh, could I ask what kind of work he did, er ....
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (pause) Um...yeah...I think it's for sort of a quasi-government think tank, actually. I don't really know what he does, it's all classified (laughs softly).
TG: Oh, well, that must have been interesting ...
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (overlapping, sarcastically) Big secret (laughs).
TG: ...growing up with work that was a secret.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Yeah it was pretty interesting during the-the, uh, during the war...it was pretty awful actually...'cause it - he works for a place called, um, The Institute for Defense Analysis - uh, the Communications Research Division. And the students, certain students at the University and in town got it into their heads that they were making bombs in the basement, uh, during the Vietnam War. So they sat in and demonstrated and painted the building, and made my father's and our family's life pretty hellish actually for a while. Of course, my father is an, um, you know,(with emphasis) arch-liberal-pacifist and, uh, you know, we'd go out and sit on the lawn wearing his dashiki talking to the kids (laughs) about the fact that they are not building bombs in the basement, and, you know, saying as much as they could.
TG: Must have been kind of mysterious to you when you were young that, you know, y-your father was a subject of such controversy.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (takes a deep breathe and sounds emotional)....It was- it was very difficult, um....I remember sitting in the back of the car with my brother - I mean we were little kids, my brother and I, I have an older brother - and my father in the front seat, and having some bearded man walk in front of our car and violently give my father the finger. It was, uhhh, that's very unpleasant for a small child...to see that. Um, and uh, I suppose there were death threats, I know my (voice trails off)...And um, there were also - I went to a very small private school, it's a wonderful school in Princeton. I remember being treated, again, not very nicely by some of the teachers there who, um, may or may not have been finding a way not to be in the army by being teachers. I'm not really sure about that, and I wouldn't judge them on that myself because who knows what I would do in a similar situation. But I don't think it's, under any circumstances, right to be, uh, cruel to a child because you don't because you think that, uh, their father is working to escalate the war...which I can assure you...(voice drops) he wasn't (nervous laugh).
TG: So, did-did this affect your attitude toward, uh, left-wing politics or toward hippies?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (takes a breathe) No, not at all! I mean I, uh, I tried as hard as I could to become one myself (laughs) - a hippie that is...and I tend to have very liberal leanings, uh, in politics. I, you know, I-I didn't see it as a political event. I saw it as an emotional, personal event. Um, it didn't really (matter-of-factly) I knew that my father wasn't making bombs in the basement, and I knew that he wasn't working to escalate the war because he promised me that he wasn't. And my father is a good man and an honest man, and has great integrity, and if he promises his little girl and his little son that he's not, I know he's not.
TG: So you grew up in a college campus environment even though you weren't on the campus, and the campus is such a big part of Princeton.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Right, and my father was also very active with his, you know, alumni association and all that.
TG: So what did you do for college?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Me? I didn't do nothin' for college (laughs).
TG: You didn't go?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: No, you know, um, I went to Juilliard in the dance department for one year and um, you know, my parents said, "OK, y-you have to go to college." So I auditioned for, ummm, Purchase - you know, State University of New York at Purchase - their dance department and Juilliard's dance department, and I got into both and I picked Juilliard just because it was in New York City. I just wanted to go to New York and start working as a dancer. So I went there for a year and that was it. And then my parents, uh, in their, um (pauses and laughs softly) their wisdom said, "Alright, we have provided for you to have four years of college education. You can leave Juilliard, but make up your own college within the city...since that's what y-you'd, you know, be doing at Juilliard. And, you know, we will support you in that. Um, you know, pick up- pick your ballet classes, jazz classes, singing lessons, acting lessons, whatever that is, and make up your own school day within the city and that will be your college."
TG: What a really wonderful thing to do!
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Isn't that great? Yeah, yeah.
TG: So that's what you did?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Yeah, and....and...
TG: (interrupting) And I guess by eighteen you were in A Chorus Line.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (cutting back in) And-and, they-they, they actually , they owe me two years (laughs loudly).
TG: (laughs) You started making money by the time you were nineteen.
BEBE NEUWIRTH: That's right (laughs again). Well, you know, I mean, uh, and I have an older brother who was at Harvard for four years, so, you know, it's a little imbalanced there. So they really came up with a good plan for me.
TG: Do they come see you in shows now?
BEBE NEUWIRTH: Oh my gosh do they ever! Yeah, they come all the time. (pause) Yeah, they're wildly supportive...wonderful.
TG: Well, Bebe Neuwirth, a real pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much!
BEBE NEUWIRTH: (sweetly) Thank you very much for having me.
TG: Bebe Neuwirth is starring in the Broadway revival of Chicago. The cast recording has just come on CD. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our engineers this week are Bob Purdick, Joyce Lieberman, and Chris Frailey. Dorothy Farabee is our administrative assistant. Regina O'toole is our intern. Roberta Shurock directs the show.
I'm Terry Gross.
(Bebe Neuwirth performs "I Simply Cannot Do It Alone" to finish off the show.)