Received 7.2.2001

Great Website!

Keep up the good work!
Simon

My Reply:

It seems like the counter-culture of every age embraces some new variety of belief system and then, once it becomes mainstream, dumps it for something less trendy. In the 80's it was Zen Buddhism, in the 90's it was New Age, and today it seems to be paganism and Wicca. I think we should start campaigning now for atheism in 2010.

You have to admire the tenacity of Wiccans. Miracles are random and uncontrolled, conveniently making them exempt from any sort of empirical testing. Wiccans, however, can cast spells. They could do so in controlled environments, behind glass at laboratories. There is probably some witchcraft version of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle that keeps them from doing so. In any case, every time they cast a spell nothing happens, yet they still "keep the faith" so to speak.

I think people have sort of a subdued respect for these other beliefs because they know that they don't fully understand them. Unfortunately everyone thinks they understand atheism, regardless of how misinformed they are. The presumption is that atheists are either serial killers, scientists who have lost touch with reality, or lawyers for the ACLU. Since I don't think you are scientist or an ACLU lawyer, it is no wonder that your party-friends were scared.

Reply from another reader.  Received 8.14.2001

As I write this, I'll admit that I haven't browsed through much of the site yet, but the opinions I have read so far have prompted me add my own take on some of these subjects.

I read the article about the person who told people at a party he was an atheist. I also did that, but my experience went a bit differently, probably because it was a cast party filled with (mostly) open-minded actors and other stage personal. Of course, no degree of general open-mindedness, I discovered, completely circumvents the initial reactions to telling people you are an atheist. One thing I noticed is that the first thing people often say is, 'what, so you believe in nothing?' And eventually, yes, it does get 
to the topic of morality, and where mine as an atheist comes from. It's simple, I tell them; it comes from the experience of everyday life. We learn all the time, we retain quite a bit of it in our brains, and that is what forms our morality, which is truly subjective and ever changing. I tell them that I set out on my own, without aid from a Bible or Vedas or Koran or Talmud, etc., to discover what is right and what is wrong to me. And I think that most people do the same, only they won't admit it.

One time, there was a fundamentalist Christian present at a party with the same people when I told someone about my atheism. We ended up getting in to a long debate, but in the end, he was fairly civil, and everyone who was watching us seemed to enjoy it too. I guess the point I am trying to make is, 
pick your moments wisely, and know the crowd you are around. I wouldn't reveal my atheism at say, a frat party or some other event where I knew the reaction would be less than favorable. As a somewhat persecuted/misunderstood minority, we may have to make concessions for the time being. It's a good thing we have the Internet now, and many college campuses now have freethought organizations. And also, it works better if you tell someone one on one, face to face, rather than in front of a group of hostiles. 

A final thought, I think the study of memes may just be what propels atheism on to the mainstage in the coming decades. We need to devote as much time as we can to this; I personally think it is the key to vanquishing theism once and for all.

Joe Hargrave 

Reply from another reader.  Received 7.8.2001

When I read your latest letter, your comment that other people presume that they understand atheist beliefs and so don't respect them got me thinking about what it is they they think they understand. I mean, the word itself "a-theist" suggests that we have no metaphysical theories about the world, and therefore what we base our lives on must either be something we can understand, verify, and readily explain... or nothing at all. I know plenty of atheists who fall into category #2.

Of course, category #1 also leaves very little to follow. Much of what has been called 'scientific discovery' is little more credible that religion. Ironically, evolution (or at least vital aspects of it, such as genetic selection) can be understood, verified and explained... and yet is probably the most contested. But to be honest, Carl Hemper's raven paradox sums up a little too much of Science to make me entirely comfortable with it: If I think that all ravens are black, then that becomes a scientific truth until a non-black raven is found. However (as has been pointed out by many more critics) you will always get some scientists who will then write clauses to make the original statement true, and the latter addition irrelevant... High levels of conservatism in the scientific community it often painful to watch from an objective point of view.

So where does that leave the atheist who wants to base his life on something? I have decided we need look no further than other people. While I'm still critical, I found a lot of "moral laws" (as far as they can be called so) visible in the works of Marx and Engels, a lot of information on who we are, why we are in our place, where we can go in life, etc. And this isn't even a scientific or theistic doctrine. It's a political doctrine. I can see clearly that society exists, and almost everyone understands certain bylaws that go with living in society... not under a specific religion. It's not structured, and it's not a stable source of belief... but these days when people ask what I believe in, rather than say "atheism", "science" or "nothing"... I say "society". The response is more accepting as well, which is nice.

And let's not root for atheism in 2010... or else by 2020 it'll be a has-been... and we wouldn't want that now, would we? :)

MSK

Reply from another reader.  Received 7.8.2001

I have visited a website about Wicca in order to understand it better since I have a close friend who is Wiccan. The site is WICCA: PAGAN INFORMATION CENTER and on it I found the Wiccan definition of Magic:

"Magick - Focusing your will and emotions to change the world around you and within you. You change things in the astral/spiritual world and the changes manifest in the physical world. Magick is not good and it is not evil: it is the intent of the person using it that makes it good or evil."

It also makes the following claim about science and technology:

"That's magick, too! Craft practitioners of old WERE the scientists ... there was need for healers and herbalists, agriculture and astronomy experts. The scientific method has now made teaching these subjects respectable in universities. But in the process we have lost the lore's former integration of the spiritual relationship between God Expressed As Nature and ourselves."

I wrote an article (yet to be published on my own site, but it will be eventually) debunking this stance, which can be summed up in the following way. The definition of magic is so vague that the term magic looses its meaning. Any effort, of any kind, becomes magic. By adhering to that belief, yes, science and technology are magic. However, by that logic, we
are all wizards. The definition makes the natural and supernatural interchangeable, and negate each term's meaning.

Also, equating scientists with craft practitioners of old is like equating fish with ducks based on the fact that both can swim.

As to the problem of spells never having an effect, there is a reason for Wiccans continuing to believe that their spells work. It's the same reason Pavlov was able to get his dogs to salivate on cue. There is a chance that a desired effect will come about whether or not we do anything. When a spell is cast (nothing is done that will actually have any effect on the result) some of the time the desired result will occur, other times it won't. Since the effect is desired, ANY time the desired effect occurs, it will reinforce the belief that the spell is the cause. Spell casting events which do not result in the desired effect will be blamed on improper casting of the spell, bad karma, the presence of an unbeliever, or just the unpredictability of supernature. Wiccans believe what they do because they THINK their efforts have the desired effect. It doesn't hurt that much of Wiccan spell casting is meditative and relaxing.

So while the logic behind Wicca may be as fallacious as other religions, its beliefs are self-reinforcing and thus it is difficult for the Wiccan to notice the logical flaws. Also, since it is so therapeutic to cast spells, the Wiccan won't WANT to notice the flaws.

As an afterthought, I think that the party atmosphere doesn't lend itself to discussing atheism. Parties are by and large empathic events, not reasoning ones. People can talk about different kinds of religions at parties because religions are themselves empathic. Since no one side has a strong logical argument to rely on, only arguments based on how the religion makes its member feel, no discussion between two members of two different 
religions can seriously challenge the logical flaws of either religion, so everyone is safe. Atheism, however, depends upon logic and reason. By supporting his beliefs, the atheist, wittingly or not, hammers away at the foundations of the theist's beliefs. Since parties are supposed to be fun, and feeling like your beliefs are under attack is decidedly not fun (as we atheists know all too well), theists at parties are generally going to be particularly less amicable about the atheist's beliefs than the same theists outside a party environment.

My advice: talk to theists about your beliefs only during those times when they are amicable to the discussion. At parties, just be comfortable with your beliefs and the beliefs of others, and have fun.

Reply from another reader.  Received 12.30.2001

I'd like to take gentle exception to some of the thoughts various individuals have expressed concerning Wicca. While I am not a member or a devout believer, I am a devout dabbler in a number of religions/coping philosophies and this is one I studied for many years so I feel qualified to comment.

What is actually happening when one casts a spell? Let's take a common example: a spell to get a better job. The fact is that most people are heavily influenced by their societies and upbringings to accept restrictions on themselves that limit their achievement. I have seen the mere act of daring to cast such a spell become a potent catalyst for an individual to break free to new, life-changing achievements. Another facet is that people who are bogged down in a rut may not notice opportunities. The act of 
considering possibilities can raise the awareness needed to catch circumstances and make changes. Alchemy? Chemistry? Psychology?  Whatever...

Nor are pagans dogmatic or unified on the subject of deities. A common quote is that the gods may or may not exist, but the universe behaves as if they do. And not even all pagans agree with that. Some believe in literal gods, developing personal relationships with them. Others consider the deities to be forces or energies.

I don't know why people think witchcraft should play well in the lab. Love, friendship, joy, and beauty are hard for science to deal with too. Witchcraft has been described as "prayer with props." It is way more poetic than anything and touches deep chords in the human mind.

In the beginning of the pagan revival, some groups preached a very restricted and dogmatic line (i.e. Gardnerian and Alexandrian witchraft) and these groups still exist, but they are no longer dominant in paganism.

The sheer weirdness of circumstances and luck in people's lives gives pause to anyone who has witnessed phenomenal bad or good luck. To attempt to tweak reality is an understandable response. Sometimes these activities seem to work, often enough to keep occultists believing. And everybody occasionally engages in magical thinking especially if they are stressed or frightened. I wish atheists would not seem to portray occultists as frauds or stupid when so many of them are not.

Pagans know how to give themselves and others potent positive "strokes." They tend to be way more open-minded than many other religious believers. Sometimes they are too credulous of questionable techniques, too emotional, or too unquestioning of things just because they date from pre-Christian times. But the vast majority are sincere, intelligent, and artistic people.