[Return to Part One][End of Transcript] clubfoundersclub says, okay, On Topic -- What do you think about Warren's reply to our item #10? Lo_Forde says, wow! Lo is impressed Lo_Forde says, refresh our memory Angel? Secretive__ says, cfc: what was item #10 ... so many wish lists were posted on thre clubfoundersclub says, We want a real person to answer real questions, not auto messages clubfoundersclub says, and he said: that he was real and answering questions multicat01 says, ... I tend to remember by content, not item numbers (too many "senior moments" these days) clubfoundersclub says, What do you think that means? Secretive__ says, heheheeh... skipped the question mistybunny says, ya HE might be.....but not in yahoo! LOL Lo_Forde says, that he is ignoring the point Secretive__ says, meant he was answering questions on the board, didn't touch on customer care thoughts Lo_Forde says, so we need to be more specific on wish no 10 multicat01 says, Yes, it seems to me that he was dancing around the issue. clubfoundersclub says, I think so too mistybunny says, me too clubfoundersclub says, that sort of peeved me at the time as well damsel_in_ddk says, oh oh speaking of customer care, a -real- person emailed me from yahoo clubfoundersclub says, seemed just a touch flip Lo_Forde says, how many people tho would be needed to handle all those club members? Secretive__ says, I don't think customer care will drop the auto message, as it shows your e-mail was received on their side and at what time the e-mail was accepted on their servers clubfoundersclub says, yah, but it often displays no understanding of the question Secretive__ says, but I wish they would say something like "we will have someone e-mail you for more clarification after it is read" Garrit_Sherova says, i emailed yahoo about a problem with a club i am cofounder of and i think i got a real person, but the problem is still there... Secretive__ says, so you know that someone will read it adn be required to respond back multicat01 says, I don't mind an auto message that says my question has been received and a "real" answer will be forthcoming. clubfoundersclub says, that's another one...if it is a system wide problem, wouldn't it be nice if they admitted it damsel_in_ddk says, well this is what you can do clubfoundersclub says, truth is usually so uplifting Secretive__ says, (oddly though, it was my ranting about an auto response that had me land a CL position) damsel_in_ddk says, I emailed that woman back and I put ATT: Erica in the title damsel_in_ddk says, she got back to me the next day damsel_in_ddk says, so use her name mistybunny says, brb Secretive__ says, I just call them Lo_Forde says, call? damsel_in_ddk says, I did that, they didn't answer me clubfoundersclub says, newsflash...they have completely dismantled Geocities CL program clubfoundersclub says, gone Garrit_Sherova says, do they say their name if they are a real person? Secretive__ says, takes less time ... you got them right on the phone Lo_Forde says, what is CL? clubfoundersclub says, Community Leader multicat01 says, That's one of the things I like about the Excite clubs ... in order to access any clubs there you have to go through the sign-in page and they use that page to post information about temporary glitches, etc. Lo_Forde says, they got rid of that??? clubfoundersclub says, volunteer peer users with training Secretive__ says, it was a thing where people could volunteer to help other people with web design, geo problems and such Garrit_Sherova says, i think they got rid of that when geocities and yahoo merged Secretive__ says, cfc: one of the reasons why I left the program after the merger was that it was too overhauled adn ticked lots of folks off clubfoundersclub says, well, you remember me mentioning that you couldn't use the Profile ID address to enter our website yesterday Lo_Forde says, shame, that was useful. Guess they could no get the volunteers clubfoundersclub says, think of the poor suckers who don't know their neighborhood address Garrit_Sherova says, newer geocities accounts dont have neighborhood addresses, or at least yahoo doesnt say what it is Secretive__ says, Lo: they were 'redefining' the CL structure within the CLs but actually had them becoming more distanced and no longer feeling they were working as a "team" clubfoundersclub says, The CL program was still working in HelpChat last month clubfoundersclub says, not yesterday when I tried to report the glitch clubfoundersclub says, I know. Secretive__ says, they have a neighborhood address but yes, the vanity URL that you used to pay for is the more prominant one clubfoundersclub says, not only that ~angel-pie which I still pay for = AngelPie_Mouse which I don't and Athens/Acropolis/2321 clubfoundersclub says, and for my 4.95 a month, I get 5 meg Secretive__ says, cfc: ah the joys of yahoo IDs when you have a geocities site clubfoundersclub says, I am thinking about dumping GeoPlus unless they up the ante Secretive__ says, but the yahoo ids being so easy to get cancelled out the monitoring of people having more than 2 personal freebie sites clubfoundersclub says, yah, and the e-mail address restriction is off now too Lo_Forde says, with the very small and disapearing banner they use now, is it still worth paying $5 a month? clubfoundersclub says, nope Secretive__ says, Lo: not really, just if you need the extra space damsel_in_ddk says, k guys I have to get ready for work tomorrow damsel_in_ddk says, thanks for the info on egroups clubfoundersclub says, hey, we're drifting off topic here Lo_Forde says, welll, we are talking about Yahoo.... [text missing] Secretive__ says, besides, we are already griping abotu their help desk folks Lo_Forde says, Well first thing is they have to streamline the menus ArrylT enters. Secretive__ says, if they brought in someone off the street and said monitor this club and here's your tip sheet of responses ... then we would be griping even more clubfoundersclub says, well, how much would it cost to have an all volunteer army? Lo_Forde says, hello Arryl clubfoundersclub says, Hey, Arryl ArrylT says, well Survivor finally ended hehe Garrit_Sherova says, hey arryl Secretive__ says, cfc: again, why are people questioning Warren's identity? They don't want a volunteer but someone who KNOWS something about the actual orkings of clubs and the programmings to answer their questions or consider their suggestions clubfoundersclub says, didn't you get that when they trained you to be a Geocities CL? Secretive__ says, but we could not answer from GeoCities perspective Secretive__ says, many times we were given general responses only clubfoundersclub says, no, you had a better perspective...from the user side ArrylT says, I know next to nothing about TOC, I am here in a supporting role to MistyBunny our Chat Co-Founder & clubfoundersclub (aka A-P) our technical genius Secretive__ says, or told to refer the person to an e-mail addie they could write to clubfoundersclub says, well, ArrylT, you'll just have to read up on it on our homepage later Secretive__ says, again, we were told to keep our personal opinions to ourselves Lo_Forde says, But the CL people were there to help with web page set ups and such right? clubfoundersclub says, oh, my goodness, I am the technical genius? we're in trouble now. Secretive__ says, I didn't like some things they did ... but i could not say that to someone griping to me about it being a part of their homepage or something ArrylT says, I've already browsed a bit and I think the idea of TOC is a good one, but like any such idea it will help only those who truly want help mistybunny says, Hi Arryl Secretive__ says, Lo; that was basically it and to help monitor sites for the content value to be turned in for warnings clubfoundersclub says, we were thinking that they have just about blown all the questions on features we could ask by now Lo_Forde says, so Yahoo needs 2 sets of help scenes, one techy and one for founder problems clubfoundersclub says, trying to come up with a new list now mistybunny says, good point Lo Secretive__ says, Lo: *nod* the help desk should have a club area Secretive__ says, then they could man that with 'trained' volunteers Lo_Forde says, yes Secretive__ says, like the help chat or help forums in GeoCities clubfoundersclub says, Yah, that might be helpful...might put CFC out of business, but then it would be better for founders in the long run ArrylT says, I think everyone is in agreement that Yahoo needs to work on its customer support eh?> clubfoundersclub says, that's the main topic right now Secretive__ says, cfc: not out of business out all! Lo_Forde says, that will certainly not put CFC out of biz Secretive__ says, cfc: your club and other fuonders ones would still be just as important mistybunny says, okay I hate to be a big ole party pooper here. As a club founder I agree that yahoo has problems that we need addressed, but when you look at yahoo/geocities as a whole, the organization is HUGE, and they must get thousands of emails a day........there is WAY MORE to yahoo than the clubs,.....although important to us, they are a drop in the bucket to yahoo clubfoundersclub says, I am not worried about our niche; I am worried that people are not getting the help they need mistybunny ducks out of the way. Secretive__ says, clubs like this one have the personal touch of 'been there done that' ArrylT says, customer support as a whole needs work ArrylT says, in every department ArrylT says, not just clubs clubfoundersclub says, Part of the problem is that clubs are modular mistybunny says, Yes Arryl thats right Secretive__ says, sadly, the problem is the e-mails go to one addie basically Secretive__ says, then divvied out clubfoundersclub says, chat for instance is a different department clubfoundersclub says, news is another department Secretive__ says, whereas calling them, you are given selections of what area you need to talk to ArrylT says, the best thing they could do is install a 1-800 # clubfoundersclub says, even club colors and backgrounds come out of My Yahoo Secretive__ says, or your call is transferred Lo_Forde says, so, back to what I said earlier: they need to streamline the menus. Different help desks for different needs Secretive__ says, arryl: but paying for the call has many people rethinking "is this worth a long distance charge?" multicat01 says, They also need to make it easier to find the link to customer support. mistybunny says, yes Lo, just like filters......put the department in the subject line: ei: Chat, Clubs, News etc ArrylT says, they can make you listen to advertisements on the 1-800 # as you waited Lo_Forde says, they need to make everything easier to find. That is my main bitch about Yahoo mistybunny says, that would make the mail easier clubfoundersclub says, that's why I was saying they should install a link in the founder tools clubfoundersclub says, make it that easy for a founder to contact them for a problem ArrylT says, good idea Secretive__ says, arryl: heheheh... well I wish they would get differnet music clubfoundersclub says, and use that info to check the system clubfoundersclub says, my e-mail isn't going out in mass mail...user problem or system wide? ArrylT says, I asked a specific question a week ago on something Secretive__ says, well, their 'help pages' ... honestly ... I think they tried to limit it a paragraph or less in explanations ArrylT says, they sent back a generic response ArrylT says, that i could have found myself clubfoundersclub says, if it is a system wide problem, address it before you get five hundred complaints Lo_Forde says, and nothing else? ArrylT says, and didnt answer the question at all mistybunny says, just make sure you check the FAQ before you write....LOL Garrit_Sherova says, when i emailed yahoo about one of my clubs, im not sure if it was an automated one or a real person... it said that they were looking into the problem Secretive__ says, their founder's and member''s pages for help need more content before they option of "did this help you? Yes? No?" ArrylT says, yep Lo_Forde says, yes clubfoundersclub says, always click "no" and go to their feedback Lo_Forde says, I tried that, gets not much back Garrit_Sherova says, i think they need a system status page for the clubs servers clubfoundersclub says, I'm still ticked that they are not even acknowledging the address error on their system status page in Geocities Secretive__ says, GS: I asked for that also, so far no response on that Secretive__ says, I will have to repost it clubfoundersclub says, last entry is July 14 clubfoundersclub says, yah right clubfoundersclub says, and that's the problem Secretive__ says, I asked for a status page for the servers in yahoo - and one for founder's usage within their clubs, extended versioning of stats clubfoundersclub says, too we don't really know how long Warren is going to stick around clubfoundersclub says, he's not here to answer customer care problems clubfoundersclub says, so ... mistybunny says, well people need to get on topic in TOC mistybunny says, and Warren needs to put his foot down clubfoundersclub says, that's a good idea, secretive Secretive__ says, I will look those two former posts of mine and respond from them asking him if he has a possible response to them clubfoundersclub says, at least a check on whether they know there is a problem Secretive__ says, misty: he has been today, oodles of posts deleted clubfoundersclub says, no kidding clubfoundersclub squirms. Lo_Forde says, about time Secretive__ says, hehehhehehe clubfoundersclub says, I am a little ashamed I got into that war ArrylT says, war?? clubfoundersclub says, but you notice, he didn't delete any of my messages Secretive__ says, cfc: I tired to stay out of the petty wars in there but earlier this morning I got so dang ticked Secretive__ says, he deleted one of mine before he launched in answering questions clubfoundersclub says, ooooooo Secretive__ says, well ... I was 'cattier' in it than I was in the other ones Secretive__ says, showing more of my temper mistybunny says, Don't take the deleting of posts personally guys......he's probably so overwhelmed with posts clubfoundersclub says, maybe that's it...I didn't get catty Secretive__ says, misty: I didn't know he was thre until I clicked enter on one of the posts that showed up right behind his clubfoundersclub says, would you believe he'll hit 3000 on his 30 day anniversary Secretive__ says, so he deleted it right then and there multicat01 is away (Auto-Away). Secretive__ says, I wasn't too surprised once I read his message though Secretive__ says, I am all for him putting his foot down Secretive__ says, too many people were trying to use that as an area to blacken someone else upon clubfoundersclub says, yah, someone has to reign us prima donnas in. mistybunny says, yes me too Secretive.......if the crap would stop in the club, I might be able to get caught up! Lo_Forde says, if the crap would stop it would be a decent club to join Secretive__ says, or worse, what peeved me off, was the assumption jumping on what kind of person some folks may or may not be clubfoundersclub says, I think I gave up somewhere around message 2000 until today clubfoundersclub says, gosh, that was only last weekend multicat01 is back. multicat01 says, Exactly, Misty. Too time-consuming to sift through the bickering posts to get to the true info posts. mistybunny says, I got lost when I went on holidays mistybunny says, had to get Angel to fill me in Secretive__ says, "I don't like Secretive because she has red hair ..." or "so&so has a founder's club thus they are getting preferential treatments ..." mistybunny says, So, what kind of impact has TOC had on CFC? Good ? Bad? inderferent? clubfoundersclub says, actually, Valerie is doing a great job with the TOC homepage Secretive__ says, like honestly ... some people needed get a better grip on things clubfoundersclub says, well, I was thinking more of the impact on clubs in general ArrylT says, *shrug* i dont know Garrit_Sherova says, i gotta go... Garrit_Sherova says, bye everyone mistybunny says, bye Garrit clubfoundersclub says, goodnight Garrit multicat01 says, Hate to bug out in mid-chat, but still recovering from surgery and need to get to bed. Good night everybody! Can someone who is in here thru CC save this chat and post it to a web page somewhere? mistybunny says, Well Angel, it hasn't bothere GOTG Garrit_Sherova leaves. clubfoundersclub says, oh, hope you're feeling better soon, multicat mistybunny says, we are doing that multicat Secretive__ says, misty: well, it gives us a side venue without the bikcering aspect to explore together what eGroups offer clubfoundersclub says, yes, but do you see anything coming out of it that is going to improve your club? mistybunny says, out of THIS chat? Lo_Forde says, You have perhaps more posting CFC. How about what impact has CFC had on TOC? multicat01 leaves. clubfoundersclub says, and I think the answer is YES Secretive__ says, and some of our personal opinions ... along with helping us still with our personal club problems clubfoundersclub says, LOL mistybunny says, only thing is........if bickering starts in my club like whats happening in TOC, I'll quit the club or kick out the shit disturbersLOL clubfoundersclub hides from the world. mistybunny says, TOC could be a great help with out the people causing probs Secretive__ says, people took advantage of the fact that there was only one of him and he wouldn't be able to log in every day clubfoundersclub says, what I am getting out if are the possibility of more customizable features clubfoundersclub says, html code to our messages clubfoundersclub says, attachments to posts Secretive__ says, he showed today that he would pop in to not just answer questions though Secretive__ says, I don't like the last two, but knwo some folks want that clubfoundersclub says, we're seeing that there will be a new permission level to foundership clubfoundersclub says, current founders will remain founders Secretive__ says, (which is long overdue in my opinion) clubfoundersclub says, but new co-founders will be granted authority according to the founder per club clubfoundersclub says, so more founder control clubfoundersclub says, polls are coming in from eGroups clubfoundersclub says, some of the other features there...expanded e-mail from eGRoups clubfoundersclub says, which misty isn't going to like at all mistybunny says, Angel, does that mean when we write newsletters, they can be longer and not cut off? nowaywins enters. clubfoundersclub says, and backgrounds by Christmas mistybunny says, HEY why won't I like that? nowaywins says, hi Lo_Forde says, hey Roger clubfoundersclub says, exactly Secretive__ says, well, if they bring over the message length from eGroips ... posts and newsletters can be longer mistybunny says, Hi R clubfoundersclub says, My briefcase section on your clubsite which will expand document storage and photos mistybunny says, so? I don't send out long newsletters from CFC, but will more than welcome them with my own club clubfoundersclub says, I am not sure I understand that one, misty. clubfoundersclub says, there's still a few questions that we need to get clearer answers on mistybunny says, well you said I wouldn't like the expanded mail.......but in CFC it wouldn't affect me, i don't send out long letters, clubfoundersclub says, and a few that he refuses to be pinned down in answering mistybunny says, but in my own club, lots of times I have to send out the news in two parts Lo_Forde says, will you rephrase the item 10 Angel? clubfoundersclub says, definitely clubfoundersclub says, we need to get an asnwer on that one Lo_Forde says, it is probably one they have yet to decide on. clubfoundersclub says, one of the things he said was that he was very interested in the concept of including clubs in Webring.ORG clubfoundersclub says, and for those who do not know, Yahoo! owns Webring Lo_Forde says, yes, why not? they own everything else clubfoundersclub says, They don't own Tripod nowaywins says, next week Lo_Forde says, lol, ok, almost everything else clubfoundersclub says, that would mean they get Lycos nowaywins says, cant buy the world in one week nowaywins says, have to spread it out clubfoundersclub says, and Angelfire ArrylT is away (Auto-Away). Lo_Forde says, oh lord I hope not clubfoundersclub says, Lycos owns Angelfire and Tripod and a bunch of guestbook and mail servers nowaywins says, i hear they are looking at canada for sept. clubfoundersclub says, About.com is more my worry Lo_Forde says, why is that Angel? clubfoundersclub says, because I think they are linked to eGroups mistybunny says, About.com took out the girl scout stuff.........twits ) Lo_Forde says, clubfoundersclub says, they may have been told that they had to clubfoundersclub says, did you save it off when you had the chance? Lo_Forde says, sorry Misty, had to try that one out mistybunny says, ya I think they were..........but they had good stuff, nothing to tick anyone off about mistybunny says, nope Angel I didn't clubfoundersclub says, ouch mistybunny says, try what Lo? Lo_Forde says, the smiley ArrylT is back. ArrylT says, sorry i need to leave now ... wish i could have contributed more, but very glad to see everyone clubfoundersclub says, okay, so our number one priority out of this meeting is all item #10 on our wishlist Secretive__ says, bye arryl nowaywins says, tootles ArrylT leaves. mistybunny says, yes Angel! clubfoundersclub says, making customer care accessible Lo_Forde says, yes CFC clubfoundersclub says, Do you feel we have exhausted this topic or should we schedule another meeting? Lo_Forde says, wait and see how tomorrow goes? many not here tonite mistybunny says, I agree with Lo clubfoundersclub says, true clubfoundersclub says, and thanks for reminding me mistybunny says, someone else will have to take transcripts though, I won't be here clubfoundersclub says, I'll ask at the top of the meeting Lo_Forde says, angel? arent you on Cheeta? clubfoundersclub says, yah, but it doesn't keep a running transcript and I sometimes forget to save clubfoundersclub says, so a back-up I can use is good mistybunny says, I'm the back up! LOL clubfoundersclub says, then I just cut and paste the whole thing together into one document clubfoundersclub says, also, for some reason, voice chat lags me and I don't get to see things I say clubfoundersclub says, so I ask a question and someone answers, but my question doesn't show up Lo_Forde says, hmmm, perhaps your settings are off clubfoundersclub says, might be mistybunny says, that works CFC unless you have short term memory probs and forget what you asked clubfoundersclub says, I am currently using the defaults Lo_Forde says, latest version? clubfoundersclub says, well, I need to go... my honey gets home from work at 10 p.m. and I need to make his supper Secretive__ says, well, I am off to check in one last time on my club circuit Secretive__ says, *waves bye to everyone* Lo_Forde says, ok, got to run also, nite nite all Secretive__ leaves. Lo_Forde leaves. clubfoundersclub says, Goodnight, everyone! [End of Transcript] Focus on Item #10 The following document was drafted for presentation on the TOC message board. It was posted to our message board Thursday for amendments and changes and became post #2942 and #2943 on the TOC message board on Monday, August 28, 2000. Original Question: We wish for REAL PEOPLE to hear real complaints and ideas to help improve the clubs. Possibly a voluntary peer chat of community leaders from Yahoo! clubs with input to the programming staff. Your Answer Was: This is what the Official Club is for. Believe it or not, i'm a "real" person. And i'm listening to your complaints and suggestions for Yahoo! Clubs. =0) You'll pardon us for point this out, but you are one person able to affect change in one department. Additionally, the focus of this club may be too narrow to address all our concerns. And finally, this current avenue of communication is just that "current;" you've offered no indication concerning the continuing access for this line of input. While we have you, however, let us address this particularly thorny question. It should be becoming abundantly clear that dealing with the various Customer Care departments are a cause of frustration and dissatisfaction for many users of the Yahoo! products, not just in clubs, but across the entire system. It should, also, be becoming more apparent that the causes of that frustration have to do with: a lack of responsiveness and/or a lack of acknowledgement that the complaint was received; inappropriate determination of the seriousness and/or nature of the complaint; failure to see that a single issue complaint may indicate a system-wide difficulty--that is: the problem is usually attributed to user error rather than system error; slowness of response, if any; difficulty in finding the appropriate Customer Care department to communicate with; and, a sense that Yahoo! just plain doesn't care. I realize that Customer Care is not your department, that you may have very little input concerning how it is run and how it services customers. However, in the coming months, as the merger with eGroups proceeds, the level of complexity concerning features and customization may affect more than clubs, may cause difficulties in other systems in the Yahoo! family of services. We, therefore, wish to revisit this issue with some added points of consideration. Proposal One: We suggest you invite other Yahoo! administrators to visit The Official Club, open the forum to include general questions concerning all Yahoo! products and services. Perhaps, you might invite administrators from eGroup clubs as well to learn first hand both the difficulties and the solutions users can provide if they but listen. Proposal Two: We ask that you include a system page for the reporting of known system wide difficulties and maintenance down times. Such a page might ease the tension and cut down on complaints if users were aware that you know a problem exists and are working to correct it. A little truth often sooths ruffled feathers. [This point addressed subsequent to our drafting of this proposal.] Proposal Three: A help link in the Admin Tools/Change Settings that could offer more information and more technical clues, in particular, once customization is added. Proposal Four: A more comprehensive technical guide on customizing features that currently exist such as News and Calendars rather than the general statements currently provided. Proposal Five: Customer Care immediate acknowledgement that a message has been received with some notation as to wait time for reply, if the problem is not immediately solvable and/or an acknowledgement that it is a known problem currently being addressed and not specific to user error. a chat room set up so that problems and solutions could be discussed 24/7. We are not talking about the focus of TOC, but all Yahoo! problems including Geocities and Yahoo! Mail. a more upfront point of access for feedback. We originally proposed a community leader program such as that which used to exist in Geocities. We know that you are more than familiar with this program, and we still believe this to be a good idea. Finally, please offer some indication whether this club--The Official Club--is meant to exist for the entire of the year as you begin making changes, is only to continue until such time as you have gathered sufficient information to satisfy your own curiosity, or will continue indefinitely. Reply from clubsproducer on each of these points may be characterized as non-responsive. That is: he either did not understand what we were proposing or did not want to understand. However, many of the TOC members who read his replies have begun to respond favorably or in the form of additional inquiry and interest such that we may wish to redraft on several key points and resubmit.

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