JOURNAL II

The search effort went really well today....nobody drowned. We had an excellent day weather wise but we did NOT find the locomotive. Visibility was poor (Approx 1m or 3ft.) but the diver managed to locate pier remnants and pieces of train rail. The rail he found was what the magnetometer survey picked up in April. Luc also brought up some old steel spikes which he found near one of the piers.

I'm still not entirely convinced yet that the train was retrieved. Here are a couple of questions I'd like answered to get me to drop it:

1) Let's say it was retrieved. Why has it not been documented?...no pictures?....no newspaper articles?...no NOTHING? WHY? Not interesting enough back then? I don't think so! It's still interesting 103 years later. The bridge collapse event is fully documented right down to the passenger names, how many cars it was hauling, date, time, etc?!!?

2) Still assuming it was retrieved. How did they get it out? With what? When?and how did they pull that off back in 1900 without even a picture being taken? I know cameras where a commodity back then but we also know they had been invented. They also had paper and pencils if for some reason the camera was broke that day?!

I plan on meeting with the Director of Operations for Ocean Group again next week and discuss alternate search methods which he brought up last week in case we found nothing (train) today. They have all the high tech gear needed for a project of this nature and they are also experts in underwater salvage projects of this kind. I have come to far with this now to drop it without being fully convinced it was salvaged. Another thing to consider is that this project so far has cost 0$.

I also wanted to get the dive effort documented on video today and Pierre Morin of Grand Falls agreed to tape the event. We did little interviews at different locations and I'm glad to say I enjoyed it fully. In attendance today was: Eric Ouellette, Christine Mulherin, Luc Pelletier, Geatan Poitras, Pierre Morin, Maggie & Cyr Lebel, Dick Merritt.

I'd like to thank Luc Pelletier (Our Diver), Geatan Poitras (Our entertaining Captain) and Pierre Morin (our camera man) for making this all happen. Luc used up two oxygen tanks and came here all the way from Baker Brook (a full hour away)!! Geatan canceled his bookings in order to lend us his pontoon boat services for the day!! Pierre used up two tapes filming our adventure and re arranged his work schedule to make it. Thank you very much guys! ;) It's not all about money and these gentlemen went out of there way today to prove that.

If you need diver services or even diving lessons, Luc can be reached at (506) 992-3705.

If you want a nice pontoon ride with a hardy steak dinner call Geatan at (506) 473-1158.

Our boat and Captain Geatan Poitras (left). Also in the picture is Dick Merritt owner of the Merritt Press Print store in Grand Falls.

Me and my lovely wife to be in August, Christine Mulherin. I am holding a spike the diver found.

This story is not over yet....I won't give up until I can clearly say "It's not there!!" :)

If you think a retrieval project like this one would not have interested local people in 1900, check out this story which occurred in Boston (1908). Click HERE to read and view some interesting pictures. The locomotive in the Boston story is similar to the one that may still rest at the bottom of the river here in Grand Falls.

We are going to do another magnetometer scan of the river this Friday. Karl Butler (UNB) offered a couple of his students to help scan the third span of the bridge. Last time (April 6, 2003) we had scanned the second one (wrong one) and what we detected then was a rail. This time we will scan the entire width of the river by means of my canoe and a magnetometer which will be tied in to a precision GPS receiver.

I presented the train story to the Association of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of New Brunswick (A.P.E.G.N.B.) North West branch annual meeting tonight at the Pres du Lac Inn in Grand Falls. After the presentation they gave me a really nice picture frame and a 10$ card to the Canadian Tire store.

We are going to scan the River again today. Today's findings should reveal whether or not the train is at the bottom of the river or not. This time the the entire width of the river will be scanned and not just the third span.

It was raining quite hard this morning but around 11h00 the sun came out and we were ready to go canoeing. Nadine, Graham and Jean-Christophe from UNB arrived shortly after 11h00 and we were off to the marina to set up and get ready for the magnetometer scan.

A total of 17 passes were done up and down the river to cover the entire width. Nadine and Graham had quite a work out for about 3 hours on the river. Jean Christophe was on shore monitoring the base station set up. I was also on the river in a different canoe with Pierre Morin shooting some video.

After the scans were completed we started to analyze the data but ran out of time. It was 21h00 and Nadine, Graham and Jean Christophe had to head back to Fredericton. We will know the results from the scan some time early next week.

Special thanks to: Karl Butler, Nadine, Graham, Jean Christophe and Pierre Morin.

I did not write the following in my journal last Friday but I really thought the locomotive had been taken out of the river at that point. I did not want to confirm it till the results came back from the university.

Last Friday it was getting late and Graham, Jean Christophe & Nadine had to return to Fredericton (2 ^1/4 hr drive). Before calling it quits for the night we were a little discouraged thinking the data we had looked at did not look promising. Jean Christophe said not to jump to conclusion just yet and wait till Monday for a better interpretation of the data in Fredericton.

I had to go to Fredericton today and decided to stop in and finally meet Karl Butler in person. I also wanted to see how things were coming along with the data interpretation. Jean Christophe was almost done working on the data when I walked in. Well...I shouldn't have told people in the last few days that the locomotive probably wasn't there anymore because now that the data has been carefully studied and located in reference to the original survey, it looks totally different. It would appear that the information about the third span being the one that collapsed was accurate. According to Fridays survey the magnetic debris field is located between pier 3 & 4 (third span). Another interesting peace of information gathered last Friday is the magnetic field variations are far grater this time than last (April 6, 2003 survey of the second span). With all the data plotted on the same scale of reference, the rail detected last time is now faint in the new surveyed area. This still doesn't confirm the presence of a locomotive in the river but the scan did pick up the presence of heavy metal debris down there.

- Observing closely the details on the collapsed bridge picture on the main page (I have a more detailed picture to view here at home), it would seem that the bridge deck was constructed out of wood which signifies no metal except for spikes, rails, locomotive and cars. So the magnetic peaks are most likely not the deck.

- Now that we know how intense a rail reading is on the new scan (Span 2), we also know that the readings generated above the third span area are far more intense. The size of the metal objects detected by the magnetometer are directly proportional to the magnetic filed variations. This signifies that higher magnetic field variations relate to bigger metal (magnetized) objects. Very interesting and encouraging results for those who like this project to date.

I am going to post the new survey map as soon as I get it from Jean Christophe. I am also going to try and organize a second dive effort tentatively this weekend (time? weather?, diver (s)?, boat?). This time I will be better prepared to direct the diver (s) exactly where to search the river bottom. Stay tuned!

We are going DIVING again this Saturday. Luc Pelletier from the 1st dive and Daniel Tardif have accepted to go down. The weather forecast is calling for a sunny day but we still need a boat. I will find one tomorrow.

I got the magnetic maps from Jean Christophe today. The one bellow is the entire surveyed area last Friday. Speaks for itself where we think the train might be? I will try to acquire high resolution pictures of these maps soon.

The following map is a close up look at the area of interest. The small rectangular grid located on this map is the approximate area of the first magnetometer scan in April.

We plan on locating points A, B & C on the river using homemade markers to help facilitate the search Saturday. These markers will be painted florescent Orange, labeled in black (A, B & C) and linked underwater by a rope forming a triangle. This rope triangle at the bottom of the river will help concentrate the search efforts in the right area. The corner markers will be located by means of a precision GPS device and will have flotation devices linked to the surface for site location purposes above water. Seven other markers will be located, painted florescent Yellow and labeled in black (1 to 7). The Yellow markers are areas of interest which definitely should be searched.

I decided to go see Gilles Laforest (Esso) my loco 508 information center today. Gilles has been very helpful in getting good contact information for this project. I wanted to ask him who he thought might be available and interested in helping my out on Saturday. He found a pontoon boat in just one call. Well now we have a boat, 2 divers, some sunshine and possibly some interesting discoveries on Saturday. Thank you to Camille Godbout from Grand Falls for his boat.

Me and Marc Laforge from work went to place our markers tonight after supper. Things went really well and it only took us an hour. Here are some pictures from tonight.

Our corner markers A, B and C in orange with yellow floaters (refer to the second magnetic map from June 11). The green ones were used to locate some points of interest inside the triangular search area.

Here's Marc all ready to go canoeing. The little orange cylinders on the back of the truck were used to delineate lines AB, AC and BC in the bottom of the river (refer to the second magnetic map from June 11). They were dropped while canoeing along those lines after having placed the corner markers A, B and C.

We put in a good effort today but mother nature did not. The dive still took place but the overcast skies made visibility even worse than last time. Daniel Tardif told me he had to feel the bottom with his hands to search. Very similar to walking in the dark with no light. What is kind of funny is that he found the pier underwater by banging his head into a log sticking out of it! I'm not laughing at him but it really made it all clear for me when he told me that....zero visibility (too dark and turbid). Kind of gives you an idea of the conditions they had to work in. They did find some metal debris down there today but no train.

We will try to get a lot more divers lined up next weekend for a tentative Dive #3. As a group they might have better luck searching the area. The markers we set out last night worked out well today and we will improve on them some night next week.

This morning my story came out in the Telegraph Journal (front page). No my name is not Marc by the way ... but the story got excellent provincial coverage.

Loco 508 got plenty of excellent coverage today! The Grand Falls and Edmundston radio stations were broadcasting results from dive #2 and the need for volunteer divers this coming Saturday. I also had a live interview on CBC radio at dinner time. I couldn't believe this but loco 508 also made headlines in the "Edmonton Sun" newspaper in Edmonton Alberta!! The Telegraph Journal and l'Acadie Nouvelle newspapers also had mention of the locomotive search efforts. The Times and Transcript newspaper in Moncton had a write up on loco 508 in today's paper. This week the local "Cataract" newspaper will also be posting my diver request and the Madawaska newspaper will be interviewing me Saturday morning before Dive# 3.

I finally got hold of the divers who had supposedly found the train back in the Fall of 2000.

The divers were not from Edmundston but from Moncton, New Brunswick. They assured me 100% that the train is still resting in the bottom of the St-John River. This is what I found out:

- It was found exactly where it plunged 100 years ago at that time. It never drifted.

- All other pieces of the train where gone except for the locomotive. The other lighter cars most likely where pulled to shore but the much heavier locomotive was left to soak .... for 103 years??

He also told me that the best time to dive in the St. John River is in the fall. The low water level and the lack of current render it more fruitful for divers wanting to find locomotives.

We are still going diving on Saturday now that we are sure we are not wasting our time? We now have one diver from Baker Brook (Luc Pelletier...of course) five divers from Quebec, and possibly a few more in the days to come. A couple of the Moncton divers who found the engine in 2000 might also show up to give us a hand. We are also planning on having a BBQ at the Marina on Saturday. Gilles Laforest Esso will also be having some festivities in conjunction with the search on Saturday. When you gas up at Esso on Saturday, a portion of the proceeds will be going to the local Children's Foundation. So on Saturday lets gas up and go Chou Chou hunting!

I also had a live interview today at C.J.E.M. (95.1) one of our local French radio stations in Grand Falls. It went really well but I found out about the divers from Moncton just after I came out of the interview.

After Saturday the fun is over. This is where it gets serious. It won't be easy but I haven't given up so far and I certainly won't ease off the gas now! ;) Now that we are certain that it is there, we can move on to Phase 2...SALVAGE EFFORT time. This contains many areas to be looked into.

- Technical advice as to how to fasten the locomotive properly in order not to damage it when it gets pulled up & out.

- Needed preservative or other agents to be applied to the locomotive as soon as it comes out or even before it comes out of the water. Otherwise it will rust within 30 minutes of being exposed to air, just like the spikes did.

As for the fund raiser, I would like for the community to come together on this and raise the needed amount for the salvage without any government funding. We need to get it out ourselves and then approach government as a group and say to them: We as a community have made the effort into salvaging it, now we would like for the government to restore it and make it part of one of our new attractions in Grand Falls, N.B. for 2004. It might just work because of the fact that we took the initiative!? Local support will be the deciding factor in this one...we shall see!

One hundred and three years later we were still unable to find the locomotive....for FREE that is. We were on the river from 11h00 to 19h30 toady. Mother nature made up for last week but still no sign of 508. Eight divers took the challenge today but the 4 to 5 feet visibility is still no picnic. We tried different search methods but none of them turned up the train.

I challenge the divers from Moncton (N.B.) who reportedly found it in 2000 to step up to the plate and do it again next weekend.

Yesterday was a great success from the turn out point of view. Here are the volunteers that made it all happen (hope I don't forget anybody). I want to make sure that everybody who reads this journal know that this was all VOLUNTEER work (FREE).

Luc Pelletier (Lac Baker), Sebastien Senechal (Riviere du Loup), Eric Fraser (Riviere du Loup), Alain Lagace (Riviere du Loup), Michel Thibault (Riviere du Loup), Leo Ouellet (Riviere du Loup), Sylvain Ouellet (Riviere du Loup) and Mathieu Viel (St Marc du Lac Long).

Camille Godbout, Daniel Paradis, Gilles Cormier, Bob King, George Theriault and Joe Desjardins.

We did not start the fundraiser yesterday for the simple reason that we have not yet officially found the train. It really impressed me yesterday to see the turn out we had for this event. It's encouraging to see that even though we live in a money driven world, we can still come together and forget about that ($) for a while. I want to find this locomotive without spending a penny. There is NO reason why this cannot be done....we just have to think a little different.

While I am on the money subject I would like to clarify the following question I've been getting:

A - It's not about how much it's going to cost but rather how much this is going to benefit the Town of Grand Falls. An event like this will be BIG positive news for us and will get attention from all over the world. We can make history without spending a great deal of PRECIOUS money. The tools needed to make this salvage happen are at our disposal now! The only reason I am pushing this project the way I have been is because of the fact that this could be done without having to spend a lot of money. A barge and crane of this magnitude will not be on the river for very much longer and when they are gone they are gone for good.....it will be to late. The window of opportunity is closing fast and I need all the help I can get to make it happen. The 508 has a great deal of rich local history and is possibly still at the bottom of the river.....let's work together and rescue her from the murky waters of the St. John River....we won't have a second chance.

Again .... Thanks to everybody who participated yesterday! It hasn't gone unnoticed.

The locomotive 508 story makes the National Post newspaper tomorrow. Getting some serious attention. Even if she never comes out of the river or if she is never found...this will certainly be a nice tribute to her eventful trip 103 years ago.

Front page on the National Post today. You can read it online at the National Post website. I was unable to find a copy of it here in Grand Falls. A correction to bring that story is that I never said CPR records are unreliable. I told the National Post reporter that the only mention of the engine being number 508 was found in our local history archives. I went on to say that those records might be unreliable.....NOT CPR's. Anyways the story got national coverage. I know this can be confusing for somebody to stumble onto this project after it being started 6 months ago.

We got ourselves some Moncton divers this weekend. No... its not the ones that reportedly found the train in 2000. These divers however have spoken directly with the ones that reportedly found it back in 2000. I take it this way. If they were not convinced that the train was there they would not be coming from Moncton to Grand Falls this weekend (Holiday weekend). I'll have more details later this week.

Dive # 4 is tomorrow around 11h30. ATV News might also be around to get a peek. The divers are from Moncton but are not the ones who reportedly found the train in 2000. Dan Mazerolle one of the divers coming tomorrow is also a believer that the train may still rest at the bottom of the river because he heard it first hand from them (2000 divers). Let's give it another try tomorrow and hope that this one will turn up the train.

The Potato Festival has started this week and it would be nice to be able to celebrate the find tomorrow.

Dive # 4 has been cancelled. One of the divers wife had a baby last night and understandably has put a dent in our efforts for today. We will hopefully regroup next weekend. In the meantime, for those in the area, enjoy the Potato Festival activities and have a happy Canada Day weekend! :)

George Theriault, founder of T-RIO Doors and Windows here in Grand Falls, tried to find the locomotive yesterday by using a very simple instrument. He used a magnet attached to a rope and fished for metal within the area where markers A, B, C are located. He invited me out today to show me exactly where he got caught up on a significant piece. This object is located in the vicinity of anomalies # 2, #3 and #4 in the map bellow.

Still not sure if it's the train or not but we will find out this weekend. We might also go fish some more some night this week.

Here are the pictures which are mentioned in the message board section with the following subject "Train hauled out when new bridge constructed ?". They are not real clear but you can see the existing CPR (N.B. Trail) bridge in them. You can also notice the rock and gravel which was once submerged. These pictures were taken in the early 80's when they lowered the water level in the river. This was done in order to perform some maintenance work on the underground water tunnel which feeds the hydro electric power station a few kilometers downriver from the wreck site. I have a feeling Emmett wanted me to post them, so here they are.

INTRO	FUN STUFF	POLL	SOUNDS	CONTACT ME	LINKS
RESEARCH DOCUMENTS					HOW TO GET MARCEAU'S BOOK
GUEST MAP	www.locomotive508.nb.ca				GUEST BOOK