RANT 6 BIG RANT COMING UP!

Well, first of all, I agree with the points brought up by Vickie, Jen-chan and the others, and I'm sure that they can state things better than I can, but here's my take on it:
The saddest thing about all of the misconception of anime is that few people will even give it a chance. I love shoujo anime, such as Sailor Moon, FY, Sakura (of course), etc, and I tried to get my friend to watch a little of it. Because of the reputation of Sailor Moon (which was founded off of the dubbed crap, not the fansubs that I hold so dear), he won't even watch a single episode of anything shoujo once that I told him that it's similar to Sailor Moon. I'm not forcing him to like shoujo, but he could at least watch ONE episode and THEN tell me he doesn't like it. Much of anime is directed at a more mature audience than your average 5-year old drooling kid. Unfortunately, much of the anime we see on TV has been "dummed down" to fit this demographic, thus making us fans look even worse in the eyes of the public.
I am very happy with how much more exposure anime is getting in America (Fox having an Anime Invasion block in an important Friday timeslot? That's definitely a sign of popularity), but for some series the price has been too high. An example? The show that they are showing on the WB that is based on Card Captor Sakura. I have sworn never to mention its name and to NEVER watch it again even though it will (is? who cares) advance beyond the episodes of the original that I've seen. The sheer amount of story and character development that was skipped over is inexcusable, as is bastardizing the characters themselves (Tomoyo-chan saying "What-EVER" in a valleygirl accent? BLASPHEMY!!!). And the new opening just makes me shudder...
Enough of that though. I, too, find the price difference between subs and dubs to be annoying. By all rights, it should be far cheaper to subtitle an anime since all that is needed are the translation and subtitling/timing fees, as opposed to translation, script editing to make it fit the mouth movements, finding voice-actors, paying voice-actors, making sure the voices match the mouth movements (which is in itself not the biggest of deals to me), and adding the new sound track to the tape/dvd/whatever to create a dub. It makes no sense, and no supply-demand explanation could justify it to a reasonable extent.
Hmmm...I think I'll stop now. This went on longer than I thought, although it's certainly not all that I have problems with.

Jacob

RANT 7 Well I completely agree with the Essay "Jen-chan" wrote about the Dislike of Anime... but to the addition of that:

I find that for many ppl who don't understand us "Anime Lovers" tend to tease us or whatever else upon this subject. I mean being friends they think I'm weird or haven't grown up/matured or beaten when I was a child and turned KooKOo cause I watch ANIME, but the fact is that they haven't actually sat down and watch the beautiful magic that is Anime.... I have in many occasions asked them to watch my personal favorites "Eva, Nadesico, Slayers, Escaflowne, DBZ/GT...." but *Being Too Cool* and I hence that remark... They Reply (No!) Even though they now except me for watching Anime and going to Conventions they still don't like the idea of Anime.
Its sad really that some people miss the beauty, drama, action, and basically great entertainment that is found in Animation!

-Unknown

RANT 8 Hey,
Just thought I'd drop a line (oops, there it goes.... hang on... got it again!) and say I agree with all the rants so far ^_^;;
As for the public conception of anime in the US, just thought I'd add to previous insights into the UK scene -
1) A few years ago Manga Video (evil butchers of anime and responsible for ALL the bad press over here) released a 'special' tape. A compilation tape, to be precise. What of? The best episodes of series they'd released, as a taster for new fans? Nope. It was a compilation of the "Best Fight Scenes From your Favorite Manga Videos!" I also heard that it had all the "best" sexy moments, too, like Chun0Li in the shower from the SF2 movie, a few bits from Crying Freeman, Urotsukidoji, etc.

2) The only way anime gets on mainstream (ie, not satellite) TV here is on late-night Channel 4 (1 or 2 in the morning, anyone?), and they make it plain that it's Manga, so far as they're concerned, with series bought only from Manga Video. Oh, and to make matters worse, on their web forum recently they mentioned that they're going to start a season of "Erotic Manga"......

*DESPAIR*

- Paul, who's sick and tired of 'suits' in the west not giving our favourite storytelling mediums the respect they deserve, and wishes they could see it in some other way than "for the kiddies" OR "blood, violence, swearing & rape"

RANT 9 Wow, everything I've heard has been very on-target, and I agree completely. My rant, however, is over something sorta different.
What really makes me mad about anime is that it is becoming *too* popular, but in all the wrong ways. At my school, it is suddenly the way for rich girls who think Asian stuff is cool to show off, i.e., their new $15 Rayearth handbag, or their brand new boxed set (boxed sets are EVIL) of escaflowne or saber marionette. These girls would never dream of watching a fansub if they could possibly avoid it, because fansubs have such bad tape quality sometimes, even though the translations are more faithful and unedited. These girls don't want to watch Ranma or Bubblegum Crisis because those aren't new. Half these girls don't know Rumiko Takahashi and megumi Hayashibara are, and wouldn't care if they did. Anything that's not commercially released isn't worth watching, and anything shown on tv isn't any good because then they can't buy it and show it off. They see anime stuff as their newest trophy, bought with daddy's credit card, and a status symbol of how they're *so* much cooler and more cultured than the rest of us. That some of us have to spend hours downloading anime, or searching the internet for fansubs doesn't matter, because we're just lame. So they don't care about the high cost of subs vs dubs, because they can afford it. These are the same girls that treated one of my ESL students (a Chinese boy raised in both china and japan) like their own little yo-yo toy, dating and dumping
repeatedly, because he was Asian, but they didn't want to learn about his culture, so they'd get bored and dump him. The culture of Japan doesn't matter in their interest of anime (it doesn't matter to every true otaku either, but many at least earn enough to appreciate the anime better), because Japan is cool, and because of that, Japan is automatically perfect. Never mind that Japan has terrible sexism and repression, because Japan is just cool. Never mind that Japan has a thousands of years old history, because that's just boring stuff. Those of us who care as much about *why* a character acts this way, and their place in Japanese culture as we do about drooling over bishounen and cute anime girls are just obsessed and geeky, because even though we know and care much more about anime than they ever will, they have the money and thus they are the cool ones. If anime becomes even more popular, I'm ditching it altogether and calling myself a manga fan. after all, 'comic books' are still geeky, and the more Japanese I
learn, the sooner I'll be able to read them without even a dictionary.

A few things I have overheard from these people:
(when watching a preview for Original Dirty Pair) "ew, eighties anime" (told to a group of people at lunch) "and then, I bought all of escaflowne, but I forgot to get a boxed set, so it cost twice as much* so my mom said I couldn't use my credit card for anything but clothes for the rest of the month."
*my note- The price she quoted was over $200.
"I never saw evangelion, because I heard that there's no cute guys in it."
Now, do these sound like otaku to you? They're the ones people are beginning to think of as anime fans, so watch out, because either you're a cool anime fan (i.e. rich, popular, and cute) or you're just another geek. i'll take the geek, myself.

-Mamoru, who apologises for the inconsistent capitalisation of this; her
shift key is broken and only works one time out of about seven.

RANT 10 Ok, de javu...
just this morning, me and this girl from work had a discussion about
anime...eerie, isn't it? She was saying that she went to her college anime club once and they were showing this film and she though it was "disturbing". Obviously they were showing "hentai". People like her, who have no knowledge in Japanese animation what so ever would think that all animes are like pornography and would turn their backs on something great. People think anime= pornography or anime= cartoon(for little children only). It's true that some anime series are targeted for younger viewers, but they are also targeted for more mature audience as well. That's what is so great about anime. Anyone can enjoy anime. There is no age restriction. But why can't US, or other countries, don't understand this simple fact?

I simply dislike dubbed version. I know there are many people who favor dubbed over subbed and I respect that 'cause everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I have three reasons why I dislike the dubbed version. First, they completely change the story line. Second, editing, I mean butchering. Third, voice actors. Do the voice actors really have to speak like that? What's up with that? (emphasizing every syllables, no one in real like speaks like that!) Since I have so much respect for seiyuus such as Suzuoki Hirotaka(Saitoh from Rurouni Kenshin and Kuno from Ranma 1/2), Seki Tomokazu(Van from escaflowne and Chichiri form Fushigi Yuugi), Hayashibara Megumi(Rei from NGE, Rina Inverse from Slayers) and so many more... I can modify my three reasons, but no one likes to read a long rant..

Rayman
p.s. How about we talk about seiyuus next time??


RANT 11 So far I pretty much agree with what everyone has said. I also have the
general gripes. Being an anime fan shouldn't label me as a moonie or a pokemon freak, or even Dragon Ball for that matter. Sure, I like those shows. I love sailor moon. BUT. that isn't all I like! :)
So far I haven't run into the hentai problem yet, but I'm sure i will eventually.
I live in Maryland and finding a store that sells a decent selection of
anime is.. well... hard to say the least. Time for gripe #2. PRICE! the only place I can really go to buy vids is Suncoast. and their prices are astronomical! I payed $40 for a tape just the other day. Oh sure I would love to buy anime on DVD but I'm not a millionaire :)
So I'm left to buy my anime off of Amazon.com or something similar. Shipping kills me and I have to wait weeks sometimes to get a title if it isn't sold out. Also I live in an apartment so if I miss the ups guy I don't get the package that day. It shouldn't be so hard to get anime!
Then we get into fansubs. I'm all for them but I am not cool with people who try to make lots of money off of them. I have seen some distributors charge $20 or $25 a tape. That's silly. And I won't even go into the anime store near me that actually rents fansubs! Fortunately there are a lot of good distributors out there that keep their prices good. And I don't even mind paying an extra dollar or so for their time and effort. that's a lot of hard work I've done it before, but if its more then 6 or 7 dollars that's allot. And finally, the last gripe of mine is some people. Around here we get a lot of these and I'm sure some of you do too: people who have seen 1 episode of 1 title and believe that they are then anime god/goddess. All of a sudden they know everything there is to know, have seen everything there is to see and they want to tell you all about it. I think it's great that a lot more people are getting into anime. Share the joy! But this is just ridiculous. And I know they exist for just about any topic out there, but still. They are soooooo annoying and Maryland's Baltimore county seems to be full of them. I want anime to be spread but is it getting so popular that all the jerks come out of the woodwork to act all cool and think they are the hottest stuff? like back a few years ago, if I saw one more tamagotchi hanging around I was going to shoot someone!
ok I think I'm done.
-Aly

RANT 12 Well since so much has been said I guess I won't have to say much. Anyway, what pisses me off (besides all the things that were already said) about people who watch Anime is they only go for one gender. It's the type of people who ONLY likes Kenshin, FY, Slayers and the rest because there's sword fighting, there's action, there's special effects, there's big booms and stuff like that. Can't they see it's much deeper than that? Even in Kenshin, FY and Slayers there's character development, you get romance, you get pressure, you get all that story and really nice Japanese history(well, only Kenshin applies in those 3), but they tend to ignore it.

You know how the animators tend to stretch on a single event over a few episodes so they can really get at the details (e.g. Kenshin's fight with Surjiro that lasted something like 3 episodes) and the background info that some love about. However, these "action lovers" gets bored. Some of them would even leave in the middle of it if they see another "development episode" coming up.

Due to their love for action, it also turns them away from series that aren't action oriented such as Sentimental Journey, Seraphim Call, Love Hina and more. I personally like these since I tend to like romantic stories and lots of character development (I get lots of ideas from them for my writing). I like action too (you just can't hate the sight of Dragon Slave - including the casting process), but it's not everything. Some of them actually say stuff like Card Captor Sakura sucks because it's got a cute little girl as the cover even though there is action inside.

Oh well, too bad for them. Guess it's their problem, not mine. I just want to enjoy Anime, it doesn't matter if everything thinks I'm crazy about Sailor Moon while I'm actually crazy about Magic Knight Rayearth... Or perhaps it does ~_~

-unknown

RANT 13 Not trying to start an "unnecessary debate", but you said all countries muck up Anime right? Well, I can think of 2 exceptions:
Japan itself and Hong Kong (well, maybe not a country anymore, but who cares).
Let me explain, although ALL Anime that gets shown on TV in HK are dubbed (they even dub English shows like X-Files, which... Well sounds really weird), they tend to stick to the original ideas. There is minimal cutting involved (depends on which channel) unless it's something a bit more extreme(a few scenes from EVA). They also do a *generally* good job in the dubbing since most of the meaning is conveyed correctly (like you don't get Kenshin saying "me" when he's not Battousai). They do sometimes do weird things with names, but they're either direct translations (think Romaji in Chinese ~_~) or take the meanings of the names (did that for names of the 3 girls in MKR). For more violent shows that's got more blood (like Seiya), they show them late at night when there's no restriction from the government and broadcasting councils.

However, Anime is not really all that widely acknowledged as != cartoons. Manga is appreciated for all ages, but Anime is sometimes still interpreted as cartoons. Although HK gets most series that come out of Japan (at least more than US or UK), they tend to stick to the ones that are still aimed at younger audiences (e.g. CCS, Sailor Moon, Cha Cha, MKR) while occasionally they'll show stuff for older people (e.g. Patlabor, Elf Princess Rane, Seiya, DBZ, To Heart, AMG).

So besides all the bootlegs that come out of HK, it's a nice place to get Anime (and Manga, it's usually around 1-2 issues behind Japan).

-Unknown

RANT 14 Yes, the "Action-Only Fans"...how annoying they are! I don't have much in common with them, and it's so hard to try to enlighten them since very little of my collection is the kind of action-anime they'd want to see. "What!? You fell ASLEEP during Ghost in the Shell because it had too much TALKING!? >.< Must...not....strangle fool..." Frankly, I would much rather have an anime with story and a plot with no action at all rather than an action-anime with mediocre story and plot at best.

Jacob -- wondering why he's typing all this

RANT 15 More ranting ahead-

I would just like to say that I was properly horrified by Mamoru's message. I agree with you. It sucks so much whenever anime gets too mainstream b/c you're right, people don't care about the important things, like the cultural backgrounds of characters, or the more accurate translations of fansubs. They're the ones who have never heard the word "fansub." I know exactly the type you are referring to, and they totally suck. And I think that totally think it sucks that they use the Asian guys at your school b/c it's "trendy." That just bites so bad, and it totally infuriates me.

Anyway, it's nice to see other people out there who share my views on stuff like this.

*Jen-chan

RANT 16 I can think of a hundred things to complain about when it concerns the way anime is brought to America, but I'll just focus on one point.

I hate the way anime companies sometimes decide what I want for me.
Censoring, changing things because the target audience is ignorant of Japanese culture, assuming that I'm a child, etc. Obviously with all the different types of fans (sub vs dub, etc...) a lot of people will want different things, but why can't there be a company that does things exactly the way I want?

Which is of course, the anime w/ any bonus stuff, no changes, no edits, no censorship, no cuts, no replacing the Japanese title with an English one, no dialogue translation changes to bride the cultural gap, just everything the Japanese get with subtitles on the bottom. Is that too much to ask?

-Ken

RANT 17 I pity you Mamoru who have to deal with such people. I also experience those types of people too. Plus it's bad enough that they think they know everything about that anime based on the "Americanized" version... but in reality.. they don't know the origin or the "main point" to it.

About the word "otaku"... I don't like that word and I DESPISE it. Why?
It's too misleading... cause the definition is different in everyone's Point Of View.

Here's my definition: One that loves anime (even if they don't like it) but can't be biased or hate towards any anime at all regardless of reasons(justified or non-justified).

Honestly, I bet most of you won't fit that category since you all have an anime you've despise... even I don't fit that persona. Believe me, I've seen so many people (when I was in Taiwan and Japan.. Summer of 1999) and I ask them if they are anime fans.. they would reply.. "I am a true otaku". Then I'll be asking them about like Miyazaki's works (Mononoke Hime, Nasussia of the Valley of the Wind, Laptua).. some would reply that they "hate" it cause the art works sucks or another reason. I'll ask about seiyuus.. and again.. more biased answers with no justifications.

Tell me.. how can that be a hardcore "true" otaku? I don't believe it's
possible to be a perfect one.. nor a hardcore one (although it IS possible to be one).

Master LL- "Anime lover?"... Yes. "Hardcore otaku?"... NO.

RANT 18 Warning... Warning...
Ranting initiating... 3...2...1... 0

As for myself... I think the whole public image of anime is screwed and controlled by the big companies (ie WB in the US) with their release and version of CCS. Oh god...they butchered it til it was just bloody pieces of CCS all over the floor. Anyways, they control what shows on public TV and that is what the general public sees and believes as what anime is for. Just for kids. Most of my friends know that I'm like a avid fan and all that and know enough that that junk that they put on TV is just butchered anime 99% of the time... I personally think Esclaflowne isn't that bad other than the fact that they got really really cheesy voice actors for the Dub...

And then there is SM which a few years back was "pop" anime as I call it cuz all the girls in school thought it was "cool" and all that. And getting back on that other post where it was mentioned that it is consider trendy to date a asian guy? WTH???? If it were me, and those girls tried that stunt on me... I would give them a tongue lashing that would make them cry like 3 year old babies... I'm chinese and I feel really ticked off that he is subject to being treated like that. But if he is taking it in good stride... then more power to him that he isn't letting these valley girls break him... (hopefully he isn't broken) ...

And on the subject of hentai... Well, I simply think it is sorta interesting but, not exactly disturbing... I personally think they kinda suck and that plot lines are weak... But hey, they are just that way. I personally like Anime that has good plot/character development and some action or thrills are a plus also.

Now, as for dubs... I'll watch them but I'll have to give my opinion on them after I watch it to say if it is a good dub or not. As for me, I'm part of several non-mainstream scenes and most ppl don't know much about. Anime for one... The real otaku are ppl like us...here in the ML or else where on the internet and all that...

And then when you try to explain to these posers what the scene is really about or point out why they are "wrong" then they get up in your face and give a lot of BS to you...they won't change unless they want to change...

Basically both the Rave scene and the Anime scene are both totally misunderstood by the public and all their misconceptions are due to the fact of either the media or from straight up ignorance...
Raves are based upon the concept of PLUR - peace love unity respect... and Anime is based upon (IMO) learning a little bit of another culture, the plot and character development and so forth which make it a culture in its own...

anyways... I'm spent and I think I might of broke the record for the longest rant but if not...oh well...

Gremlin
aka gabberhouse128

RANT 19 *takes a deep, deep breath*
Okay, my 5 cents on the topic:

Please, please stop calling Anime a scene!!!
Why do you think, we, the "real Otakus (I'll just take it you mean it the "western way", not what a Japanese would call an Otaku... ^_^)", are the only ones who should be able to watch Anime? And yes, that's want you are saying when calling it a scene (That's what pisses me off about scenes... you are either an insider and have the right to watch Anime/listen to Rave music/dress like a Gothic/etc or you are not, you're one of the "posers" who Dares to use the scenes main activity)...

Anime wasn't meant to teach foreign people Japan's culture, or to unite people who "deserve" to watch it... Anime was meant to entertain people, and if there are some who are not interested in the cultural background or who are only interested in bishounen... well, let them be!
They have the same right to watch our favourite series, films and OVAs, and why should I get disturbed by them?

Sure, I dislike those mainstream puppies, too. But if they have fun, the main reason for a series/film was fulfilled... And why should I care about how much money they spent on fan articles?

If you are hurt by not being one of the "cool" ones I can't help you, but if you are not, why do you care? (Believe me, if it wasn't Anime it were any other thing they'd use to be cool and pick on other people...)
It's not them who force that image upon Anime, it's just plain the companies faults... Well, those are the ones one can really start to hate sometimes...
^_^
And it's people's ignorance, but, hey, why should we care about THEM? I mean, if they don't want to watch Anime, they'll just miss quite some good shows, but that's THEIR problem... and believe me, those who are that ignorant aren't the ones we "need" to be in any market researches for companies to see that there's heavy demand for Anime...

No, actually those ignorant people are much fewer than we think, it's just that they are the ones we recognise the most...
And on Hentai: Well, yes, they are responsible for the bad image Anime has, but I still think they are okay... as long as there are people out there who enjoy it, why not? I personally don't like them that much (although Hentai Mangas can be quite interesting sometimes... ^_^), but that's no reason to call those who do sick perverts... well, some like action, some like romantic, and others like sex... nothing wrong about that, ne? ^_^
Okay, okay, I'll stop right here before I start getting too hated... ^_^ (Well, just to make sure: I didn't intend to offend anybody, it's just that I know quite some people who complain about "posers" all day long and it's getting on my nerves, for EVERYONE has the right to watch Anime, and we are not "better" viewers than the others... just my opinion)
D.A

RANT 20 From what I have heard so far in this thread, this is the only thing people have a problem with. American companies releasing anime. While I don't intend repeating details, there is a perfect solution which would (as far as I can see) please everyone. Learn Japanese and move to Japan. See the anime you love the way it was intended to be seen. I can see that to most people this would take some time. But to any real "otaku" it is well worth it.
Anyone who doesn't agree with me, feel free to voice your (constructive, hopefully) criticism on the list.
> why can't there be a company that does things exactly
> the way I want?
>
> Which is of course, the anime w/ any bonus stuff, no changes, no edits, no censorship, no cuts, no replacing the Japanese title with an English one, no dialogue translation changes to bride the cultural gap, just everything the Japanese get with subtitles on the bottom. Is that >too much to ask?

My original intention was to reply to this post saying that yes it was too much to ask, but after some thought I came to the conclusion that it wasn't. I mean if a fansubber working on a ridiculously low budget can do it, for big corporation to do it would be a piece of cake.

Okay while I'm here (figuratively speaking, that is), I will put in my two cents on the "otaku" topic. I consider myself lucky as I can appreciate all forms of entertainment, with one exception: anything that has been "dumbed-down". You know what I mean? Entertainment that assumes that its entire audience has a sub-85 IQ.
The thing I love about anime is (except for a few shows) it NEVER lowers itself to that level. I dislike very few shows. And I Don't "hate" any of them. For that reason I consider myself to be an "otaku"
In response to yet another topic: Ghost in the Shell.
I consider it one of the best anime movies I have seen.
The sci-fi setting is beautiful, the music perfectly sets the mood, the story is intelligent, the action is great, and it gets you thinking about philosophical questions. The only bad thing I can think of about it is the dubbing. But I watch it subbed anyway so, problem solved.

- Chris,
big fan of the anime no-one has heard of; Gokinjo Monogatari.

RANT 21 I prefer subtitled anime over dubbed anime since dubbed anime is subject to the views of the society. I am tired of hearing that anime is only for kids and I'm tired of America always censoring parts of the anime because they think it's unsuitable for their children.

There's my two cents.
Cindy


RANT 22 WOW...
you poor things...
I never knew there were so many problems to face with anime...
You all should move here (that is---Israel)
no, I'm just kidding...
No one here has ever heard of anime, manga or such...
I don't even know how I ever got to it!
Usually I get all I need from the net (the shipment costs but I work so..)and that's that.
It can be a bit of a drag when I need to tell someone of the great movie Mononoke or the ending of CCS and stuff but I can handle it!
Mainly because of you people!!
so....THANX!!!!!!!
(sorry for my poor writing!)

-unknown, Israel



RANT 23 Sorry I'm so late. Okay, what I hate about Americanised anime and other
stuff:
1) They kill it
2) All the major females sound [terrible]. Just stupid simpering air heads (Sailor Moon, Sakura, etc)
3) They kill it
4) 99.9% of my friends have no clue what is the difference between S. Moon and other shoujo. Every time I bring manga to school hey, it's automatically dubbed Sailor Moon.
5) They kill it
6) Americanised anime is pure shit
7) They kill it
8) Americans leave so much to be desired by true anime fans
9) They kill it
10) Most of all, Americans only show the shows after they've been twisted,
chewed up, spit out, and dragged- through- the- mud.
-Mindy
PS They kill it

RANT 24 What pisses me off is the elitist attitude of certain sub fans and their hypocricy. They refuse to really explain why the Japanese VAs are better and they never criticize any seiyuu. Yet when dub fans point out stuff like Fujishima thought the English dub of the YUA OAVs were the better than the Japanese, they say that Fujishima does not no English and can not properly judge English acting. They don't speak Japanese and yet they praise seiyuu to no end.

-unknown