Many of the points you made [on your website] are correct however stop and think seriously at the substance of some of the arguments.

Mike
I've given extremely serious thought to all of the statements I've made. Nothing is taken lightly!

Kim
I too have struggled with Christianity and for certain it takes time >and perseverance. I removed myself from "organizational church" and now I just meet with my friends at home to discuss the scriptures.(this is church to me)

Mike
I'm curious. When you discuss the scriptures, do you interpret them? Do you decide on the meaning of the scriptures? Any reading and discussion requires making decisions regarding the meanings.

Kim
I have spent much time studying other belief systems and have had now about 25 years of time around the "the bible".

Mike
I'm interested in knowing what other belief systems you've studied. Were the studies formal (class settings, e.g. college courses) or informal readings and discussions? How much time did you 'spend' studying these other belief systems?

Same question for your Bible study. Formal or informal? What study aids do you use, if any?

Kim
There is so many places to start so I can only start and finnish on a few points. CHRISTINAITY IS BASED ON THE CROSS ANDTHE RESSURECTION not on theology or on an argument or on the different points of view found within the church.

Mike
Unfortunately Kim, ALL views are based on theology whether denominational or personal. The Bible is extremely inconsistent with contradictory statements. How do you reconcile these inconsistencies? In order to attempt to reconcile and/or harmonize them, it is necessary for you to come up with theological opinions and views/interpretations of meanings. The Bible is extremely ambiguous. How do you handle it?

Kim
The Ressurection is historical in that to me it answers the rise of Christianity and the eventual spread of it world wide. A man who claims much must meet this criteria, for he has much to answer.

Mike
The resurrection is NOT historical. With regard to historical documentation there is little and none. Would not such an earth shaking event, if it actually happened, be one of the most written about happenings in the history of the world? And yet the Bible is the only source of information. And even the source tells several very different stories about how it happened.

Kim
Can you explain the spread so rapidly of the belief in Christ? Myths take time to spread but as we can see within a short time Christianity turned peoples ideas upside down.

Mike
It was no more rapid than the spread of Islam or Hinduism or the various aspects of Paganism from which Christianity has borrowed so much of its teachings and doctrines.

Kim
Name another myth that conqured an empire and spread so rapidly. What I am trying to say is that in all arguments concerning the validity of scripture and all these side issues the most important piece is totally ignored.

Mike
The most important piece would apparently be the resurrection and you have provided no documentation or proof beyond the Bible which begs the question of the resurrection. You attempt to use the Bible to prove the Bible. It can't be done.

The autographs no longer exist. There are no origninal writings to compare to the copies of copies of copies to verify whether they are even correct. If you can't verify the copies you can't prove their validity.

Kim
I have dealt extensively with people who argue from your point of view and I have been there myself however let us keep our eye on the real issues and let us try to use reason and logic to come up with answers. I will deal with one of those side issues that keeps being repeated in our society lately.

Mike
If you've used the arguments you've used here, your extensive dealing comes up short. Once again, you use scripture to prove scripture. No validity there. Provide extra biblical documentation/proof that the resurrection occurred or that there was a virgin birth.

Kim
Consider the text of John to prove my point. JOHN 1:1 - THE WORD WAS GOD. JOHN 1:2- HE WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD JOHN 1:3- ALL THING WERE CREATED BY HIM JOHN 1:4 - IN HIM WAS LIFE AND LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN JOHN 1: 9- THERE WAS THE TRUE LIGHT WHICH, COMING INTO THE WORLD, ENLIGHTENS EVERY MAN. JOHN 1:12- TO THEM HE GAVE THE RIGHT TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD . JOHN 1: 13- WHO WERE BORN NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF MEN, BUT OF GOD( SOUND FAMILIAR??) JOHN 1:14-AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH.

(SNIP)

Mike
I've deleted the rest of your argument because you simply attempt to use the Bible to prove the Bible. I'm not trying to take you away from your beliefs Kim. My thrust is toward those who have left born again fundamentalism, are in the process of leaving or who are thinking of leaving it.

The entire website and the support group exists to support those walking away from what I am convinced is superstition. You may call it faith which is blind belief in the unknown.

I'm still waiting for extra biblical documentation and proof

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