The following conversation was with Rabbi Avi Shafran, Director of Public Affairs for Agudath Israel of America. It is reprinted with permission from Kalman Packouz's Shabbat Shalom Weekly, and originally appeared in "Coalition", the Agudath Israel newspaper.

"Agudath Israel of America, Public Affairs."
"I will never give to an Orthodox cause again."
"Pardon?"
"No more tzedaka from me. I hate everything you stand for."
"I am saddened to hear that, but could you explain why?"
"Because you hate me and consider me a goy --"
"I do nothing of the sort --"
"Don't give me the run-around! Everybody's talking about how those right-wing fanatic rabbis of yours have put down all of us who aren't religious enough for you!"
"Please, sir, give me an opportunity to tell you what really happened."
"I know what really happened!"
"No you don't. Will you hear me out?"
"You're full of garbage, all of you, I don't need to listen to you -- you can all -- "
"Please don't hang up on me, sir."
"I called another Orthodox organization and they hung up on me."
"That's unfortunate, but I promise you I won't do the same."
"All right, talk."
"What an Orthodox rabbinical group recently said was simply that a philosophy that rejects the Torah's laws cannot be called Judaism."
"Well, I drive on Shabbos. But I feel the day in my heart. So, that makes me less Jewish than you?"
"I didn't say that, and neither did they. No Jew is perfect in observance. All of us, though, need to try to grow in observance, you and me both, wherever we are in terms of observance. But while I hope you'll consider keeping Shabbos more fully, you're as Jewish as any rabbi with a long beard."
"Listen, man, when Hitler sent us to the ovens, he didn't care if we were Orthodox or Conservative or Reform."
"You would let Hitler decide what Judaism is?"
"I didn't say that!"
"Think about it. You did."
"All I know is, nobody can tell me I'm not living a Jewish life. Even if I eat at McDonald's, it doesn't mean my prayers don't go to G-d."
"It certainly doesn't. But it doesn't make McDonald's kosher either."
"I didn't say it was. Only that you Orthodox reject me for not keeping kosher."
"Our belief that G-d wants all Jews to keep kosher doesn't mean we reject Jews who don't."
"Well, I see them looking down on me."
"Who does?"
"All the religious Jews who pass by my house when I'm on the porch. I live right on Ocean Parkway. They never say anything to me. They consider me a goy."
"Well, do you wear a yarmulke or otherwise display your Jewishness?"
"Not really."
"Well, then, maybe they don't even know you're a Jew. Why don't you reach out and speak with one of them, let him know who you are, and ask him if he thinks of you as a non-Jew?"
"Nah, I don't want to. I'm 65 years old and I think I know what they think of me."
"I don't think you do at all. But I'll tell you one thing. If any religious Jew sees you as anything but a fellow Jew, he's not very religious himself."
"Well, I am happy to hear someone say so."
"No one has said otherwise. Please believe me. When we Orthodox are forced by those who redefine the meaning of Judaism to stand up for the principle of Torah, we aren't judging people who are simply less observant than we are. All of us should try to be more observant, but only G-d can judge any of us. You're my fellow Jew, and that's that."
"Do you really believe that?"
"If I didn't, do you think I'd be spending time talking to you this morning?"
"Well, I'll think about that. You have yourself a good and happy Pesach, rabbi."
"And you as well -- and all our fellow Jews."

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