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<21 Jan 1999 From: Vick Re that vet book>

hey all --

<<I don't know if I am just blind, but has a title been mentioned of this  book.  I would like to see if I can get it in Australia first.>>

mel, i, in my infinite wisdom, never bothered posting the title or author. i'm just hip like that sometimes.

the book is "The Cat: Diseases and Clinical Management" 2nd edition, 1994. Edited by Robert G. Sherding. $285 (i'm a bit over tired from late nights and early mornings, so periodic brain farts should be expected :)

Vick and the kitty company: Skippy, Sam, Max and Jezebel

hey all-

<<there's a good book that I should have, I can certainly plan for it and save for it. Oh, I would very much like the book I get to have a nutrition  section (not just a page or two, but an actual section, cat-specific :)>>

there is an older book by neils pedersen called "Feline Husbandry: Diseases And Management In The Multiple Cat Environment" that has a whole chapter on nutrition. it is, unfortunately, out of print. amazon.com will do a search for you (no obligation to buy). here's the link to the book itself : http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0939674297/theorigiholistm

oh, duh... dog and cat books has it in stock for $43 -- just go to: http://www2.dogandcatbooks.com/directbook/  (shop online, then health, then veterinary) they have a couple cool sounding, cat-specific texts....

there's also that new book out:  Home Prepared Dog and Cat Diets : The Healthful Alternative by Donald R. Strombeck, DVM. i haven't seen it, but i imagine it should have some nutrition stuff.

but honestly, i'm holding out for dr. wynn's and dr. schoen's book. i may get the Merck Veterinary Manual, too, but i got $30 worth of barnes and noble gift certificates for christmas, so that'll cover (almost) the merck manual. and my mom is getting me The Holistic Veterinary Handbook (same dog and cat books site, shop online, health, then natural health) so i can let ya know what that has...

Vick and the kitty company: Skippy, Sam, Max and Jezebel

<<I was reading Billinghurst's book about dog. When I talked to him about cats (he has cats), he said basically same as dog
 but less grains>>

Really Yumi? I would think that cats not only need a greater percentage of meaty bones, but more meat in general. Sort of like, dogs should eat wings but cats eat drumsticks or something like that. If you get a chance to talk to him next, could you ask him if he thinks cats require a greater percentage of meat overall?

Which leads me to my next topic. I just got Kmythy Schultz's book "The Ultimate Diet." It's...okay. Sort of Billinghurst lite. Or Billinghurst fat-free. Okay if you're already familiar with Billinghurst enough to be comfortalbe with inexact amounts, but I think it will be rare to find someone who would be comfortable with Schultz's as their first natural feeding book.

Billinghurst has some inaccuracies (talks about high-protein as a cause of kidney disease), but the sheer detailedness of it still makes it a better bet than Schultz's for the beginner, IMHO, unless they have someone else to lead them through it and bounce their questions off of.

So, final analysis. Bad for beginners. Good for people who are sure they want to do Billinghurst but don't want to wade through his book.

Peggy, Hester and Elleander

Read, read, read. Pat McKay's Reigning Cats and Dogs is simple. Anitra Frazier's The New Natural Cat is a good overview, but it's feeding section is very outdated. Dr. Pitcairn's Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats is also a great overview, but I think it's recipes are flawed as well.
<<snip>>
I've also ordered the new book The Ultimate Diet : Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by Kymythy R. Schultze. I have very high hopes about this one. If it's what I hope it will be, I'll be able to recommend it over the others without any reservations.

Peggy, Hester and Elleander

There is Dr. James Balch's Book, Prescription for Nutritional Healing

I like 10 Essential Herbs by Lalitha Thomas for an in depth look at 10 of the most important herbs..some of which are talked about all the time on this list..like Slippery Elm and Ginger and Cayenne. It is also fun to read.

Emily

Jean,

A homeopath told me she had an opportunity to attend Late Dr. Macleod's workshop in, I believe was in England. She said there were so much thought went though his mind before choosing the remedies. What you see in his book is the outcome of that. She said it was too bad that he didn't include those process in the books. But what you see in his book is a result of his long time experiences with many animals. I really like his book.

-- Yumi

hey all --

<< I know some of you have this book. Would it be useful for a beginner or  might I be better to go with "The Consumer's Guide to  Homeopathy" by Christopher Hammond or the one by Dr. Andrew Lockie and  Nicole Geddes?>>

jean, i have all three and use all three.

the cat one is used exclusively for the cats, but the other two i use for all of us.... i like the macleod book cuz it deal more with symptoms that a cat owner could figure out, as opposed to things like 'pain moving from left to right'.

for me, i like the geddes and lockie book, Complete Guide to Homeopathy  but they use peoples' pictures when describing constitutional remedies which can be kind of self-defeating cuz there are some pictures that i don't want to be like!

well, i just double-checked, and my Consumer's Guide to Homeopathy is written by Dana Ulman, so i can't really comment on the hammond book...

**ed note, the Hammond book is The Complete Family Guide to Homeopathy; An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Safe and
Effective Remedies **

the geddes and lockie book does have a list of lots of homeo remedies, a picture of the source and a description of its' properties, tho, with longer descriptions and details about the common ones. i do like that part. it also helps you pick a constitutional remedy.

Vick and the kitty company: Skippy, Sam, Max and Jezebel

wordlady@interlog.com wrote:
<<I know some of you have this book. Would it be useful for a beginner or  might I be better to go with "The Consumer's Guide to  Homeopathy" by Christopher Hammond or the one by Dr. Andrew Lockie and Nicole Geddes? Thanks.>>

Jean, they are both excellent books to keep on hand.  I like the remedy profiles and mini-rep type chart in the latter book.  it's really good if u don't wanna mess w/ a big Rep and MM.  However, the Hammond book is better for more acute-type ailments.  it also has several pages for various ailments such as cough, cold etc. w/ a few key symptoms.  I sometimes use it as a short-cut if I'm rushed for time.

I found the hammond book at Barnes & Noble for $10 but it's a bit harder to find deals on the Geddes and Lockie book.  They're both good books so u can't go wrong either way.

There's also another book I like called "Practical Homeopathy" by Sylvia Treacher (she's an English homeopath).  It also has a good acute section and very quick and easy reference for beginners.  i think I got that one at B&N too but many yrs ago.  Recently saw it at a discount store for $3..shoot, i shoulda bought it and sent it to u!  Will do that next time:)

Sandy, owned and operated by the mountain cats

hi Vick,

On Saturday, January 23, 1999 12:42 PM, Vick [SMTP:vick@gator.net] wrote:
<<for me, i like the geddes and lockie book, but they use peoples'  pictures when describing constitutional remedies which can be kind of  self-defeating cuz there are some pictures that i don't want to be like!>>

Of the three listed, this is the only one I have. It's very informative for people, but anyone who wants to use it for cats will have to extrapolate a lot.  And you're right, some of the models are weird. I think they tried to overaccentuate the strange, identifying characteristics to make their point. They're almost caricatures. My consitutional model is really hideous. LOL But then I match all the mentals and only a few of the physical aspects of it.

<<the geddes and lockie book does have a list of lots of homeo remedies, a  picture of the source and a description of its' properties, tho, with  longer descriptions and details about the common ones. i do like that  part. it also helps you pick a constitutional remedy.>

I'm in the process of typing the questionnaire up for my sister and some friends. Have you ever tried it for one of the cats? Obviously, there are a lot of questions that don't fit, but many would. I wonder if it would still work out OK for a furkid. I've GOT to try it one of these days.....

<< Vick and the kitty company: Skippy, Sam, Max and Jezebel>>

Be well,
Nancy and the furkids

hey everyone --

<<Have you ever tried it for one of the cats? Obviously, there are a lot  of questions that don't fit, but many would. I wonder if it would  still work out OK for a furkid. I've GOT to try it one of these > days.....>>

nan, i tried using it for sam's constitutional way back when. i came up with many of the same remedies that sandy did, and she's way better at this stuff than i am... i think it can be used for a cat you're well attuned to, because you do know some of the mentals, then. i think it works best w/ bitchy whiny cats, tho, cuz you know what they like and don't like. a cat like skippy or max would be much harder cuz they just deal with stuff way better than sam does....

just my $.02 :)
Vick and the kitty company: Skippy, Sam, Max and Jezebel

<<One of the books I saw was Heal Your Cat the Natural Way by Richard Allport, DVM etc.  Apart from the fact that the print was too small and faint for my lil weak eyes <g> I thought it had a lot of good stuff in it. Is anyone familiar with it?>>

I've got it and I love it. The only problem is his suggestions for essential oils and their use on cats. I had a big to-do with him and his publisher last summer / fall because he refused to believe that oils could be harmful. That said, he does have a lot of really good suggestions -- I think that's where I got the info on administering eye drops that is included in the eye tea recipe. I would recommend it highly, except for the oil stuff.

Take care
Kathy and the cats

Hi Karen,

I just heard about this book on another list and remembered your question about recipes for oxylate stones.  I don't have the book, so I can't just copy the recipes, but I thought you might be interested.  Apparently there are several recipes (separate ones for d*gs & cats) for preventing stones (struvite, oxylate, urate calculi). These are computer-generated recipes to insure balance.  Here's the info:

Strombeck DR. Home Prepared Dog and Cat Diets : The Healthful Alternative.
Ames IA: Iowa State University Press, 1999.

Maybe you could adjust one of the recipes for allergies (a chapter on that, too).  I'm going to check this book out as soon as I can get a hold of a copy.

Susan

<<(struvite, oxylate, urate calculi). These are computer-generated recipes to insure balance.  Here's the info: Strombeck DR. Home-Prepared Dog and Cat Diets. The Healthful  Alternative.    Ames IA: Iowa State University Press, 1999.>>

Incidentally, does anyone have this book?  Dr. Wynn is probably at a conference so set n*mail but I seem to remember she liked it.  Was rather amused to read a review of this book by a traditional vet.  He even had the nerve to challenge the basic premise of Dr. Strombeck's book - that diet plays a very important role in the health of cats and d*gs.  Kinda sad actually.  Can't win 'em all.  I'm all for a dose of healthy skepticism but how can vets and parents not see the damage done by Science Diet and other so-called "premium food"  to the animals who come to their clinics?

If anyone does read this book, would u post a review? I'd be most curious b/c the book contains recipes for cooked cat food and curious cats want to know just how the computer "balanced" these recipes.  He had to have some data as to what is optimal..wonder where that came from.

Sandy, owned and operated by the poor abused mountain cats who are forced to eat "health food"

Moonpadler@ wrote:
<<OK, it's looking like it's time to take my education one step further. There's SO much info on this list I can only absorb things one step at a time....where do I find the symptom matches?   Would that be the Materia  Medica?>>

Yes.  The standard seems to be the Wolfe book Your Healthy Cat: Homeopathic Medicines for Common Feline Ailments which I'm sure you're aware of from this list.  I've recently discovered a new book, Homeopathic First Aid for Animals  by Kaetheryn Walker which I find very friendly for the lay person.  It is nothing like the Wolfe book so not a substitute for it but I really like it as a companion.

susan

Thought this might be of interest to some.

Hardcover - 320 pages (April 1999)   Knopf; ISBN: 0679455000

The Nature of Animal Healing
by Martin Goldstein

Pet illnesses and ailments are more prevalent than ever, seeming to strike with no regard for age, breed, or genetic predisposition. Because of this, owners are searching for options, and many are finding that alternative veterinary medicine may just be the key to their pets' health. In the upcoming "The Nature of Animal Healing: The Path to Your Pet's Health, Happiness, and Longevity," Dr. Martin Goldstein makes a strong case for alternative techniques and offers expert advice on a range of topics--including diet, vaccination, and treating specific diseases. Order a copy now, and we'll ship it as soon it's available.

hi All

don't  know if any of you have read Dr Strombeck's book yet, "Home Prepared Dog and Cat Diets", but he says that hyperthyroid in cats is attributed to feeding canned foods. He says that it is unknown why this happens. There is no reference to that particular comment, but he mentions a citation from the Waltham symposium(page 299 and 305)...

I think that, overall, this book is good, and would like to be able to afford to buy it for our allopathic vets! ......he goes into great detail about food allergies, and is very much adamant about owner prepared diets, altho, the recipes are cooked, at least he is saying that commercial foods are really poor "nutrition" for our companions. IMO, the book is worth the $34.
--
Mary, DiHom;Professional  Herbalist,AHG

Hi again --

[snip]

<<<Well, Sam already eats chicken... I wonder if she means to decrease organ meats and use gizzards instead? Or just add extra gizzards?>>>

<<I took it to mean chicken muscle meat and gizzards, but no other organ meats.  Earlier in this section, Schwartz gives a recipe for cats w/  kidney problems and she only includes white chicken meat, chicken  gizzards and hard-boiled eggs as a protein source...hmmm.>>

Well, I just 'spoke' w/ a holistic vet online and she feels I am too heavy on veggies and organ meats...She's gonna send me her clinic's latest recipe -- she said it's based on research so new that it won't be "finished" for a few months, and they are one of the test clinics. She referenced Dr. Strombeck's book "Home Prepared Dog and Cat Diets" and says that according to him, cats need ("basically) meat, fat, calcium and a few vitamins and minerals"

Looks like more reason to get this book....

Vick and the kitty company: Skippy, Sam, Max and Jezebel

Hi all

Here are titles of 3 books that are new to me. Is anyone familiar with them?
- Natural Health Care for Your Cat : Quick Self-Help Using Homeopathy and Bach Flowers - Rudolf Deiser
- Small Doses for Small Animals : Homeopathy for Cats and Dogs (1999) -   Donald Hamilton
- Homeopathic First Aid for Animals  - Kaetheryn Walker

--Jean, Saski the Mellow & Amber Sweet T'ing

<<Small Doses for Small Animals: Homeopathy for Cats and Dogs (1999) - Donald Hamilton>>

Donald Hamilton was my homeopathic vet for two years - send me a private note if you need more info.  This book is basically to help enable people to treat their animals, both preventively and for health conditions, at home.  I received a letter from his office back in December and the upcoming publication of this was mentioned in addition to information about his new policies.

<<Homeopathic First Aid for Animals: Tales & Techniques - Kaetheryn Walker>>

I know Nancy has this book, maybe she can give you an idea of her impressions of it.

That said, there are no short cuts to doing a good job with treating animals homeopathically if you truly want to learn about it and effect more permanent good health and cures.

Leah

Hi all

<< Homeopathic First Aid for Animals: Tales & Techniques - Kaetheryn Walker>>

I love this book!! I love this book and think it's great!

It's well-written, clear and concise. She talks about a wide variety of animals and uses actual life-events in her descriptions. She cautions readers to read the book before they actually need it, which is good. My other caution is to keep it in a place where you can access it *easily*. It looks like a lot of other homeopathic books and BFE books (same grey cover, etc) and I keep losing my copy. It's never around when I want it. So, keep it handy.

I'd offer more insights, but it's been AWOL for several weeks now.

Take care
Kathy and the cats

Hi everyone,

<<<Homeopathic First Aid for Animals: Tales & Techniques - Kaetheryn Walker>>>

<<I love this book!! I love this book and think it's great!>>

I agree with Kathy's opinion of this book generally. The stories Walker tells to illustrate an individual remedy are wonderful and will have you believing in homeopathy if you're still on the fence. They also give a good example of how some of the terms/conditions we're used to hearing about actually present themselves or what causes them. These stories are worth reading on their own. And they go a long way towards getting the reader to read the remedy specific details.

Another good thing about the book is that each ailment is listed alphabetically and is easy to find in a hurry - very important in first aid situations. The book as a whole shows good design and organization which is woefully lacking in lots of homeopathy texts. She does a good job giving just the info you need to distinguish between the several remedies that might be indicated for a particular problem, too without getting too detailed. There are some really cute drawings here and there too.

One major problem I have with this book is the dosage schedule. I completely disregard that. For nearly every ailment she recommends giving remedies on a pretty rapid schedule depending on the severity of the problem. I personally feel that she goes way overboard with the repetition of doses. Also, a second point of disagreement for me is that she recommends 30C for almost everything. I think this is too high in many cases of first aid type situations.

But, even so, I'd recommend this book for the entertaining stories as well as the info that helps differentiate between similar remedies.

Be well,
Nancy and the furkids