Following are selected posts to the Holisticat (TM) Mailing List on the subject of cat diets: raw, cooked and commercially prepared. There's a lot of information here, and the posts are arranged in ascending chronological order. If there is a particular word you're looking for, it's probably best to utilize the "Find in Page" function in your edit menu! You may also want to check the raw archive for more posts on this subject.
Happy hunting :)
<23 Jul 1998 From Sandy A Re Chicken feet>
<< I saw chicken feet in the supermarket a few weeks back. I wonder how those would be to feed to the cats. >
Sharon and all,
Many yrs ago I had a landlady who was from Poland. Her hubby used to be a History prof at the Univ and was in the looney bin (for real) and her sanity seemed rather questionable too. So when she told me that back in their home country, they made a soup out of chicken feet and drank it if they had backaches, we thought she was bonkers so ignored her but now I do think she had something there. After all, it is cartilage and we take Shark Cartilage and glucosamine for arthritis so this is just another way of getting something similar.
Maybe I should get some and feed Booey the broth for his hind leg problem.. I agree w/ Peggy tho in that I doubt it has hi nutritive value.
Sandy
<< I'm very curious about the half a quail! Is it whole (head, feet, organ meats, etc.) or supermarket cleaned? Does Casey start at one end and work his way through to the other <g> or do you cut it up? Do you give him anything else in the morning - supplements, vitamins, greens, grains? It seems like a nice easy way to feed - does anyone else use this method? >>
The quail that I give Casey comes from the grocery store. It's already
cleaned. (thank goodness) Some of them still have an organ or two
left inside (bonus).They come in a 4 pack in the freezer dept. I slit them
in half with a kitchen scissors, right down the middle, wash in grapefruit
seed extract, and plop it into his dish. The first few times he wasn't
too sure what to do with
it, and would leave a leg or wing, now he devoures the whole thing,
working from one end to the other, and then licks the bowl clean. He gets
no supplements in the morning. His evening meal is a mix of ground meat
and bones, organ meat, alfalfa sprouts, carrots, sunflower seeds, Solid
Gold Sea Meal, egg, taurine supplement, lecithin, nutritional yeast, wheat
germ oil, cod liver oil.....I think that's all. Everything is raw and it's
ground up and mixed together. I make enough for about a week, divide
it up and freeze.
Yes, it is very easy. The quail is a little expensive...4 for 5.99, but that's 8 days worth of breakfast, so not really that bad! I don't imagine I could afford it if I had more than one cat to feed though. Anne
<<<'Course, if you following the conventional plan, you *would* feed a kitten higher protein foods. I wonder if that causes problems in the long run.>>>
<<That's a good point and worth thinking about. As I understand it, cats with kidney problems are fed a lower protein diet. So could feeding a kitten higher protein diet in early life cause a predisposition towards kidney problems?>>
Finally, the myth that high protein intake may lead (aggravate) to kidney disease has been overcome. Most interestingly, the studies have been published by IAMS Food Company and they have finally already designed a dog food for dogs with kidney disease with higher protein content that is so much important to support the already compromised kidneys!
So don't worry about too much protein but rather about digestibility and biological values of proteins. Cooking beside others does denature proteins to a certain degree (depending on the heat and how long) eg. and thus make it less digestible.
Following is the address to the IAMS abstract: http://www.iams.com/fftfb/library/tpn/1%2D60396.htm
Christine
From my little 'at home' trial, I can report that after I raised Sammy's protein % his BUN went from a normal 27 to 43, and his creatinine from 2.6 to 3.3. The 27 and 2.6 held for 5 blood tests
Judy
<<If you feed meat and vegies, how much meat and how much vegies are you mixing?>>
75%-85% meat. I actually use pounds. Right now I'm using 1-1/2 pounds
of meat to 1/2 pound of veggies with a handful of organ meats thrown in.
(If you're not grinding bones, you need to add 1-2 tablespoons of bonemeal
or another calcium supplement per pound of meat.) However, with this 20%
organ thing, I think I'm going to re-calculate my poundages for
my next batch.
Peggy, Hester and Elleander
Hi all
Kristine, I think it's great news that your kitty is eating the necks, but if that's all he's eating it may explain the vomiting. Often when cats vomit bile or foam it's indicative of an empty stomach, and perhaps the empty stomach is nauseating him. Also, when I first started feeding Annie necks she'd vomit also, but that's because I made the mistake of feeding them to her on an empty stomach. I've learned that for Annie, it's best if she's eaten something first.
Hope this helps
Take care
Kathy and the cats
I give my guys a lightly beaten whole raw egg (with the shell well smashed and included) once every 10 days or so, with a veggie pulp and a sprinkle of healthy powder and flax seed. I can only really get them to eat their veggies if I add something yummy to it, and currently an egg fits the bill<G>.
The problem with feeding too many raw egg whites is that there is a
substance (avidin?) that binds with biotin in the existing diet and can
cause biotin deficiency - HOWEVER a whole egg (with yolk) is balanced and
if offered occasionally will not hurt - the addition of the shell provides
the calcium that balances the phosphorus in the egg.
Tracey
Just for your info http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/potscat.html Raw vs Cooked, talks about enzymes
-- Yumi
Hi all,
I add eggs to my entire batch of cat food each time. And I give it raw w/ shells and everything. After John is done grinding the meat and bones, we just put an egg thru the grinder and it gets all ground up nicely in teeny pieces. The kids love eggs raw but wil not touch 'em if they have been cooked. I notice the smell is rather icky too when cooked.
I figure an egg is perfectly balanced w/ Cal-phos etc. so I feed the entire thing. According to Pat MacKay, feeding the yolk along w/ the white takes care of the biotin deficiency problem but I haven't investigated this issue as much as I probably should. Also, I dunno how much is too much <shrug>.
FWIW
Sandy
<< Speaking of "not going on", my grocery store and *both* butchers in town have stopped getting in chicken organs!!!!! >>
Do u guys have abattoirs (sp?) there or independent butchers? They sometimes have good deals, and wholesalers too. Like try to call the manufacturers of the chicken themselves, perhaps? Here in CA, I sometimes get stuff directly from Harmony Farms. Get this - they charge $1.89 for organic chicken at the grocery store, and Yarnall charges her customers 3-5x that. I'm too cheap to be able to figure that one out!
<<Duck, quail, game hens and such are pretty much novelties around here these days too.>>
How terrible for you and the girls:( One tip for everyone - try the non-mainstream grocery stores like here in SoCal, I shop at Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Mexican stores a lot. You can find all sorts of wonderful (boy, the kitties sure did a number on this vegetarian mom, eh? LOL) meat parts at those stores. Like for some reason, Korean stores sell Game Hens at rock bottom prices (less than $0.90 a lb usually), and Mexican stores have organs real cheap etc. etc. Check it out if u have access to it.
Sandy
<< I went to the health food store yesterday with the intent to prepare my own supplements to use in the cat's raw meat diet but I couldn't figure out which products to buy. The receipe I have calls for bonemeal w/red marrow, kelp powder, lecithin granules, vitamin C (prefer with bioflavinoids), but I couldn't decide which brand is the best to use. Also where do I get: flax seed oil, codfish oil, borage oil, salmon oil, and evening primose oil and what brand is the best to use?>>
I agree w/ Judy that it should all be at the HFS, and that the brands should all be better than what you'd find at Publix or the drugstore.
I got all that stuff at the local HFS.
Bonemeal- Solgar brand, bone meal powder w/ B12 and bone marrow
was $7.00 for 12oz
Kelp powder- I bought it in bulk, so can't remember brand or price
Lecithin granules- Country Life brand, $9.00 for 8 oz
Vit C powder- Twinlab brand, w/ Vit C (as ascorbic acid), bioflavinoids,
and rose hips. 1 tsp=2000 mgs of C for around $10
Vit C tablets- I just got the store brand (Mother Earth Market) and
paid ~$5-$6.00 for 100 500mg tablets
I buy flax seeds whole and grind enough for 3-4 days. Actually, that's past tense. I took my in-laws' dobie to the local holistic vet Friday and spoke w/ the vet about my cats, too. He said cats don't get as much value from flax seeds or their oil because they do better w/ meat-based sources. So I bought an oil mix from him made by "VET Solutions" called "Omega-3 Fatty Acid Liquid" It has fish oils AND Vits A, D, and E.
I also have Vit E and Vit A&D I bought at the HFS. I bought the Country Life brand of those. Actually, most of the stuff in my cabinets is either Country Life or the store brand.
(The usual no monetary interest disclaimers apply :))
<<<What does everyone else use as supplements? >>>
<< If ya mean a multi-vitamin mineral supplement, I don't cause
I can't find a good one yet. Sammy has crf, so I add to his foodies
ester-c, and a b-complex. Then weekly I squirt the contents of an
A,D, and E softgel on a plate for him to lick up. The only things
I add to a batch of foodies are flax seed oil, kelp and eggshells to correct
the phosphorus.
This is weird tho guyz, if I don't add the B and C to a defrosted tub
of foodies, Sammy doesn't eat it with as much gusto.>>
I am feeding 3 of the 4 cats mostly mixed canned and dry right now,
to which I add the following:
1 teaspoon of digestive enzymes
1/8 teaspoon powdered Vit C (~ 250 mgs ascorbic acid)
1 or 2 squirts of the Omega-3 stuff from the vet
a sprinkle of Merrit Naturals' trace mineral powder (but it has garlic,
so I hafta use very sparingly or the picky ones don't eat!!)
The other cat eats canned only, alternated w/ raw meat. He gets 500mgs of Vit C daily, plus a squirt of the Omega-3 stuff and a pinch of C powder on his canned food.
Judy, I'm amazed that Sammy eats his vitamins and supplements so well. I just pill everybody when I add Vitamins and stuff so I know they'll eat. Well, Skippy will eat anything, but Sam, Max and Jezebel will not eat if I add too much stuff!
Vick, Skippy, Sam, (Mad)Max, and Jezebel
I attended a very interesting lecture last night - specialist with the company who makes Vet Select/IVD prescription diets discussed FUS/FLUTD and dietary management of these problems. The company has designed their 'control' diet around what they call the 'feral cat diet'. "Control" was compared directly with a rat carcass and was very similar. This diet is moderate - not an extreme like C/D, etc.
You may have heard that the 'paleolithic diet' is being investigated by veterinary researchers for other conditions. Colorado State is using it in cancer treatment (and Hills has produced something based on it, called N/D, for people who don't want to cook). Now, the Iams Symposium held last year had a talk about diabetes. The author suggested that high carbohydrate (mostly dry) diets are responsible for diabetes in cats as a lifestyle disease.
I asked the speaker this question. With diabetes, cancer and lower urinary tract disease all being examined as lifestyle diseases associated with our cat diets, or at least diseases that make us go back to the paleolothic diet for treatment, why aren't we producing a *maintenance* diet that is based on the paleolithic diet?
His answer was quite interesting. These diets (as well as a rat carcass) are very, very calorie dense - they are high protein, high fat and low carbohydrate. His comment was this - the diet is great, but do you think we can get cat owners to feed *even less food than they do now* to keep the cats' weight normal? You see, cat owners seem to want to feed the bowl and not the cat.
Is this the fault of food companies who perpetuate the idea that you can feed a cat a bowlfull of cereal? Or is the fault of cat owners who think that a 3-5 ounce helping of (mouse, or rat, or decent food, homecooked or not) just isn't enough volume? Can veterinarians help by teaching owners that cats are essentially desert animals, with very low water and food needs? How can we teach cat owners to feed properly, so that we can provide good diets commercially?
Susan W, DVM
<< diagnosed with osteoarthritis and so i am interested in either shark cartlidge or glucosimine for her so she is>>
I think Judy has a reference for glucosamine being good for IBD as well so u might kill 2 birds w/ 1 stone by giving her glucosamine sulfate in case she does have IBD. I am not sure of the dosage tho..I think Judy would know. I just give my cat (10 yrs old w/ other health problems) Booey 1 capsule of glucosamine sulfate about 1x a week for his arthritis.
<<I am also looking into a more natural diet for the cats - interested in what anyone is doing that the cats will actually eat!!>>
My cats eat just about any meat I give them. They don't like veggies of any kind or grain so I have to grind it all up to wet food consistency or else they eat the meat and leave the non-meat stuff on their plates. For starters, u could get some ground turkey and mix a little into their canned food. Then slowly add some pureed veggies to the ground meat. Continue to add more and more of this mix to smaller amounts of commercial food. Take it slow, and it won't be so daunting. It took me a year to get the nerve up to start feeding my cats a homemade diet; I'm really glad I did.
Sandy
<<If I remember correctly from wellpet posts, nightshade veggies aren't necessarily bad in and of themselves but will exacerbate pain conditions such as arthritis, lupus, etc. Potatoes are also of this family.>>
~~** Solanine inhibits the formation of the collagen that makes up cartilage. It is highly recommended that anyone/thing who suffers with any form of joint ailment stop ingesting all nightshade plants. To avoid any type of 'growing pains' as the vet called Pano and joint dysfunction, especially if predisposed, avoid all consumption of nightshade plant material.
For future reference, here is a list of nightshade plants: In the veggie/fruit- world it's white potatoes-unless ALL green parts are removed(Solanum tuberosum), peppers - all types (this does not include regular pepper as in the salt & pepper spice), eggplants, and tomatoes.~~**
<copied from post by Dr Debra Moore>
Release...... Kristy
<<Can anyone tell me if wheat grass and wheat sprouts are the same. >>
Sprouts usually refer to the seed right after it has extended a leaf and root. They're at their most edible when the root is just as long as the wheat kernel. They haven't developed any cellulose at that point, so aren't as good a fiber source, but have lots of nice lively enzymes and vitamins. Sprouts don't need any nutrition aside from the seed itself, so they can be grown on a plate or in a jar in just water. They are a GREAT thing to drop into the blender as an additive for any food. I'm glad you reminded me of them! Most people who are wheat-intolerant can eat sprouts because right at that point they're a sort of different animal, chemically. I bet most cats would tolerate them fine; there isn't any gluten or starchto speak of.
Leslie
<<Is anyone using a kidney glandular with their crf kitties? I've read about their use in cases of kidney stones, but not failure......wouldn't they help either way?>>
Tricia, I add kidneys to Booey's food along w/ the rest of the giblets but then I do this for the girls too. Sometime back we discussed glandulars a little bit. I'm including one of those posts below (will send u the other privately). What I decided to do instead of giving a glandular tablet was add extra hearts to Booey's raw diet. have not been able to find organic kidneys by themselves or I would add them for sure. I can't remember off the top of my head how much nutritive value there is in kidneys; my guess would be not too much. Heart OTOH is hi in taurine so I like the idea of giving that.
<< How much do you use, and is it a single glandular or part of a complex?>>
Susan is giving her FelV+ kitty George a glandular and it sounds pretty
good. Here's her post about it. Hope it helps.
__
>From Susan (katseven)
I'm using Thymus Organic Glandular: LAMB for my felv+ kitty, George. The brand name is NutriCology (San Leandro CA 94577-0489). A few of us (w/ felv+ kits) are using this after Kathy G. posted the info about the kit Thomas who reverted to negative after six weeks on Thymus, Immunoregulin, & CoQ10. I just happened to come across the lamb (ovine) thymus...most of the thymus available (in capsule form at least) apparently is bovine. (Ovine would be better, right? The label claims the lambs were range fed & had never been given antibiotics or hormones. Also the stuff is fresh-frozen then vaccuum-dried.)
<<We're told to feed between 50-80% meat or other protein, depending on whose recipe you follow (I'm including bones & skin in there). That means 20-50% is something else - veg/seeds, grain, fibre of some sort. If we feed grainless (which I'm leaning towards) then the 20-50% is vegetables/seeds or a combo of veggies/seeds and some other bulk. Now that's a lot of veggies! Do these obligate carnivores :-) normally eat that many? Even if stomachs were a habitual part of their diet, I don't think they would provide that high a percentage.>>
My cats get about 80% meat (a part of which is organs) and 20% veggies in their mixed foods. One of them will eat the necks, organs, etc. without me cutting them up, but the other kitty is being very stuborn about this, so she eats mostly the mixed food. I think that this ratio is probably more veggies than they would get in the wild, but my cats occasionally will nibble in my herb garden or eat a fresh berry or two off the bush. The larger amount in their food is fine with me because I feel it adds some needed fiber, lots of vitamins and some enzymes and fatty acids they can use.
<< So as kitty owners what are we substituting for fur and feathers, stomachs, feetsies and heads?>>
I think that the higher amounts of veggies can go a long way towards being a substitute for these fiberous parts with the exception of the head which of course has brains in it. Ideally we should feed some brains once in awhile. I buy the veal ones whenever I see them in the store, but that's not very often.
Be well, Nancy and the furkids
Hi everyone,
<<I think you're right about the veggies... I include seeds in that definition.>>
I'd be hesitant to lump all seeds in as veggies - after all what are grains? They're seeds of cereal plants or grass type plants. Wheat, rye, corn, etc. are all just seeds. Course, something like sunflower seeds are not from the grass family. Same goes for flax seeds too. Anyone here but me ever grow flax? It sure looks like a grass. Well, sort of. :-) And have you ever smelled the oil that's used industrially from flax? Peee-uuuu. Stinks. But back to the subject.....seeds are very concentrated sometimes, unlike plain veggies.
Anyway, except for the legume seeds, I consider most of them to be closer to a grain than to the fruit or fleshy part of a plant which "contains" the seeds which I'd call a vegetable. Just another way of looking at things.
Be well, Nancy and the furkids
<<Yesterday, I checked a book I have on supplements and it said
sunflower seeds have about 88% fat (1/2 in monounsaturated and 1/2 in polyunsaturated
oils). And now I can't remember but I recently came across a reference
to
sunflower seeds being good for the kidneys so am thinking of adding
some (unsalted of course) to Booey's food.>>
Okay, I've been screamingly busy and have barely had time to scan the
posts lately, but I have to speak up about sunflower seeds. These
are one of the commonest sources of rancid (toxic!) fats. Sunflower
oil has very little natural antioxidant content and the oil goes bad quite
soon after the seeds are hulled. (Unhulled seeds are supposed to
keep a little better; I dunno.) The flavor most people associate
with sunflower seeds is actually a spoiled-oil taste; try some seeds fresh
off the plant if you can, and
you'll taste a big difference. Sunflower oil keeps just a little
better than the seeds themselves, but still is very fragile. Nothing
in sunflower oil or seeds is worth the risk of rancidity. I don't
know why this is not common knowledge--maybe the sunflower producers' lobby
is very effective.
All my life I've been picking nasty sunflower seeds off my salads and hearing people say, "But I thought you LIKED healthy stuff!" Sheesh.
Leslie, snarly with a headache
Sunflower seeds almost killed my parrot several years ago.......my sister thought she was doing him a favor and collected all her seeds from her flowers....they didn't dry out properly and some must have been rancid without me knowing. Poor Bingo had a bad time.....but the vet finally pulled him through and said no more seeds.....feed him pellets from now on!
Noreen >^,,^<
<<i meant, dry food. my friend's cat had a big problem with kidney
and since he switched the cat to dry scientific diet,
he became a very healthy cat (knock on the wood). my cat used to eat
everything, when he was young, but got diarrea once and a vet advised to
give him only dry food. we were sorry for him and mix dry and canned food
and stopped giving him any food, we eat. since that he does not eat anything
but canned food (commercial). does not eat any canned food from the health
store. the dry food we give him, claims to be good for ph balance. there
is no point to make a food for him - he will not eat it, but we can reduce
the dry food. we thougt we were doing good to him making him eat dry food.
thank you for your advice. >>
Hi Olga. Well, you've heard lots more from the list by now. This can all be very confusing, but let me try to explain a few more things that I have learned by experience and by reading a lot.
Many cats do better after they are put on Science Diet. That is usually because the cat was on a very low-grade food previously or was on an incomplete diet. Science Diet foods (and to some extent Iams also) are carefully formulated for the proper chemical balances and protein amounts, and that often helps cats get healthier.
The problem is that the manufacturers of those foods use some very,
very low-grade protein sources. I once worked in a fish processing
plant where we sold a lot of our waste to a cat food manufacturer.
Everything that was left over got shovelled off the floor and put in the
cat food tank--there was often dirt, sawdust, and machine oil in there
as well as very indigestible parts like crab shells. By the time
it was chemically turned into "digest," it looked like it might have been
a kind of fish meal, but
there was a LOT of toxic stuff in it. Any food that contains
"by-products" has that sort of junk in it.
So, some cats improve at first on a dry food that has the ph balance they need. However, many of those cats will later develop problems from the toxins in the food. Others will develop problems because dry food is just too overcooked and too high in grains for them. Still others will have allergic reactions to some of the ingredients--this can happen with ANY food.
Sometimes the practical approach is to use the vet's advice to correct an immediate problem your cat has. Then, see what you can do to really improve the cat's diet for the long term.
Many cats have eaten "cat food" for so long that they don't recognize other food as being edible--you know that typical "cat food" smell? It's the smell of mass-processed dead carcasses, generally treated with denaturing chemicals. Chicken, beef, or turkey--it doesn't matter what the meat base is, the food all smells pretty much alike. That's the emulsifying and preservative chemicals. After years and years an animal thinks that is what food is supposed to taste like. You'll be doing your cat a favor by trying to mix in some other, cleaner foods if you can. As I said, at least go to a high quality canned cat food mixed with the dry food.
The big manufacturers have an enormous stake in keeping all the cats on their foods. This is BIG money and has nothing to do with cat health. These same manufacturers have supported the veterinary schools and provided grants for vets, and the Science Diet people also provide a nice profit item for the vets to sell. The only thing they need to show is a short-term benefit from the foods in order to keep the vets using them. Even as crooked as human doctors are, they don't have the nerve to be that obvious about it!
Some medium-sized manufacturers, like Sensible Choice and Nutro, are
doing a better job of caring about ingredients. Their food costs
more, of course, because even low-grade real meat costs a lot more than
byproducts. I think the canned versions of their foods are a reasonable
compromise, and if you can work some home-prepared ingredients in then
you have a pretty
fair diet. That's SO much better than grocery store food!
About the fish--as I said, I sometimes feed fresh fish. One of the objections to fish is that it smells and tastes like candy to cats--as you say, it's the only thing your cat will eat besides dry food. Perhaps you can mix some other things with a bit of fish to get your cat interested in more variety?
It's a difficult thing, trying to fight the big money companies.
They have lots of scientists and marketing people; all we have is our experiences
and our common sense--and common sense is often WAY wrong about body chemistry.
(Like the old idea that milk would help "coat the stomach." People
believed that for years and years!) We aren't always right, and we
can get
pretty excited about something that seems like it will "fix" a lot
of problems and reduce the constant stress and confusion of trying to stay
open-minded. But at least we care about cats, which is NOT something
that we can count on from the stockholders of whoever owns Science Diet
now.
Gee, maybe we could follow the political trend and kick all the cat food manufacturers out of office after a specified term limit...
Um, I got kinda carried away there, I think I'll go have a nice cup
of tea now...
Leslie
Another thought on fish. Any canned fish are bad. They add so much salt.
Also, on parasites, Dr. Basko said fresh water fish has many parasites,
so you need to cook them. Sea water fish has minimum or no parasites. (these
are the one that used for sushi and sashimi)
-- Yumi
Hi All,
The Japanese Holistic Veterinarian conference was held in island of Kauai, where the spiritual energy is very strong. The lectures included how to have healthy dog, how to be healthy as a healer, massage, communication, and we did spiritual journey visiting holy places and identifying Hawaiian native herbs, and with Kava Kava ritual (traditional Hawaiian ceremony). The diet part is based on the chinese yin and yang, and was about dog. So I will omit the portion part.
First of all, you as a healer to your own animals, or other people's animals has to be healthy, physically. mentally, spiritually in order to heal them. The state of your health will affect the animals.
You feed basically neutral food as far as the yin/yang is concern. And you modify the diet according to their breed, age, sex, seasonal, where they live, stress.
Everything in this world has yin and yang. Yin is rest, yang is motion. Yin is inward, yang is outward. Yin is cold, Yang is hot. Yin is wet, and Yang is dry. Yin also is fermentation, hydration, juices, boiling water, refrigeration, spices, sugar, raw, vegetables, greens, potassium. Yang is also cooked food, processed food, dehydrated, pressurized, salted, meat, animal products.
Neutral foods are brown and white rice, azuki & kidney beans, milk products, pork kidney, duck, goose, chicken gizzards, sea fish, papaya, yams, carrots, turnips, coconut meat, peanut oil, alfalfa, shitake, honey, grapes, hard cheese.
Hot foods are nuts, red pepper, lamb, charcoal, grilled meat, trout, avocado, raw onion, ginger, soybean oil.
Cold foods are banana, grapefruit, watermelon, pineapple, asparagus, cucumber, tomato, bean sprouts, chinese cabbage, mustard greens, seaweed, zucchini, cauliflower, eggplant, wheat germ, salt. Hot and Cold foods should be used in small amount or less frequently. To modify the diet, you use warming or cooling foods.
Warming foods are oatmeal, black beans, beef liver, turkey, egg yolks, sweet potatoes, squash, leek, green beans, garlic, basil, pepper, vinegar, rosemary, ginger.
Cooling foods are pears, apple, plums, lettuce, snow peas, cottage cheese, celery, chard, cooked onion, spinach, radishes, cabbage, soybean sprouts, watercress, tofu, millet, barley, buckwheat, pork, chicken egg, peppermint, wheat, beets, potato, corn, broccoli, pumpkin.
Dr. Basko mentioned that lambs are dipped in pesticide. Although they don't have hormone injection, he said to avoid it. Also he avoid turkey, because of the growth hormone.
And he said if you have a dog (maybe cat too) that loosing fur inside of the body, like inner thigh, it is usually an indication of growth hormone in chicken or beef. If you are using organic meat, then the cause will be thyroid.
More to come
-- Yumi
<< Onion powder, an ingredient that may trigger a form of anemia called "Heinz-body anemia." >>
<Perhaps not onion powder but onions in some form are ok to use
right? (I know I read it in Fraziers book).>
Finally something about cats - - http://www.catdoctor.com/prevnote.htm a December 1995 "health alert" saying that this has not hit the vet journals yet but "One of my clients, Cindy Harris, recently noticed an article on her on-line service, Prodigy, and forwarded it to me. It seems that Gerbers recently reformulated its baby food in a way that is potentially very harmful to cats and kittens. Gerbers added onion powder to its strained meat baby foods to make it taste better. Unfortunately, the food can now cause a serious heinz body anemia (low red blood cell count) in cats. I called Gerbers and they confirmed the change in their food. I am currently checking with Beechnut to see if their baby food is still safe."
if anyone is in Australia near a university, or anywhere with access to a college of veterinary medicine - you might be able to find this article in Australian Veterinary Practitioner Vol. 26 No 3. March 1996 Heinz Body haemolytic Anaemia Induced by Garlic or Onion (listed by name, but no content I could figure out how to get to, at http://www.farmwide.com.au/nff/vetasscn/asava/contents.htm
Sounds like the onion powder wouldn't have hurt human kids (other than those with the congenital problem). I can't imagine that baby food meat is a good regular diet for kitties anyway (with or without onion powder). I can see that onion powder would be more concentrated than onions, but it still seems likely that it would take *habitual* use to cause problems. Not that I'm recommending deliberately feeding a "bad thing" - - just trying to get a clearer picture of just *how* sensitive cats are to onion and garlic. My cats *love* garlic (which they get probably about once a week) and I have read good things about it as well as these negative things.
I am looking back up at the Pet Life site quoted above - it specifies problems with garlic fed *continuously* and *in excess*. Is it the same for onions?
jane (the other one :-)
Hi all,
According to the "study", onion raw or cooked, caused anemia in dogs, and recenty they came up with the report that Ann mentioned about cat.
Each onion and each animal are not the same. My dogs and cats eat raw or cooked onion here and there for past 6 years, and I know few people who fed onion to their dogs for past 20 years without any problem.
This questions was also asked by Japanese veterinarians during the seminar. Dr. Basko said he never had any dogs or cats had any problem with eating onion. And he also mentioned that his mother used to tell him that if you put onion in the brown bag under the sink and if it shot new leaves, it's a bad onion.
I was looking into this. I've talked to some holistic veterinarians. Some said cooking will kill the harmful effect. Some said onion is no no. But at the same time, Juliette Levy mentioned in her book about feeding graded raw onion to your pets. And onion is good for the skin condition.
I haven't seen the actual report, so I cannot really say how they tested and under what condition.
Anyway, here is a response from Dr. Shawn Messioner
The allyl propyl disulfide in onion and the allicin in garlic can be toxic, causing anemia. Small amounts of garlic or onion powder do not appear toxic. Feeding larger amounts of whole onion or heads or garlic or more likely to be harmful. I have not seen a safe dose reported with regard to how much fresh onion or garlic can be safely fed. My guess would be about 1 garlic clove (1 small piece of the head of the garlic) per 10-20 pounds of pet/day, and possibly 1 tsp of chopped onion for the same size pet. Stick with the powder and you'll be safe. However, I don't know if the garlic powder retains any "healthful" activity due to processing. A real clove (1 piece of the head of garlic) would probably be more beneficial.-- Yumi
Elaine writes:
<< Garlic is excellent for the cats. Just make sure that
you don't use supermarket garlic. There are no natural properties
left in it. All it does is flavor.>>
Diane writes:
<< Please forgive what is probably a very stupid questions...but
what *should* one use? >>
You can use the fresh cloves, minced up. Or capsule form. Of course, I like the Nature's Sunshine because it is processed at 480 degrees below zero--nothing is destroyed. It's a powder within a capsule and can be sprinkled into the food. It is 3 times stronger than anyone else's. When I started using it, I opened the capsule and sprinkled only a bit of it, and reclosed the capsule for the next day. Now my cats get the entire capsule. When they get used to the flavor, you can put anything in their food. And garlic does absolutely everything you can think of. I take it myself.
Elaine, N.D.
Hi Leslie, All
<<From what I have been able to find out, digests are the worst of the worst materials (meats) which can be used. What I said about the chicken digest in Sensible Choice is just what I've heard. I wish I really knew for sure WHAT to believe! Sometimes the only way you can try to figure out the truth is to read between the lines of the denials, or watch for what they don't try to deny. Sheesh.>>
According to the AAFCO (Association of American Feed Control Officials)
"digest" is defined as "Subjected to prolonged heat and moisture or to
chemicals or enzymes with a resultant change of decomposition of the physical
or chemical nature". Clear as mud.
Ann
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