Following are selected posts to the Holisticat (TM) Mailing List on the subject of FIP. There's a lot of information here, and the posts are arranged in ascending chronological order. If there is a particular word you're looking for, it's probably best to utilize the "Find in Page" function in your edit menu!

Happy hunting :)

Hi Randall,

I have recently had a phone consultation with "Dr. Debbie" Mallu fron Az. Besides being a holistic vet, she is also an "intuitive" (her word for animal communicator).  I recommend her highly, altho she charges $96.00/hr with a $48.00 minimum - she helped me alot with my kitty "Domenique", and I will be using her again to do a follow-up consultation.  If you'd like, I can send you her phone # and e-mail addy.

Kat (New Jersey)

On Sun, 26 Jul 1998 EchoSynch@wrote:

<< Thank you so much. Yes, the FIP nosode sounds very interesting. Promising,  even. As far as my vet (the holistic one, I have three vets)...let's see, how can I put this nicely....let's just say I'm not impressed. She had few answers for me. Anything outside the Pitcairn book, she'd never heard of. Anything inside the Pitcairn book, she'd open the index and look up the page. Umm, I
coulda done that myself :)  Her best advice to me was "Keep reading the book."
Last night, in my continuing quest for assistance, I came across some holistic veterinarians who offer long-distance telephone consultations. One such veterinarian is Dr. Larry Bernstein of North Miami, Florida...which is about 3 hours away for me. Dr. Bernstein appears to be a good candidate for us. Has anyone else heard of him or done homeopathy via long-distance? He's a bit expensive, but if he's the man with the answers, then I'm there.
Sandy, I appreciate your telling me what an Isode is. I will be sure and discuss that option with Dr. Bernstein. I sent him a detailed fax and email last night with my concerns, questions...and we'll see what he has to say.
Also I will ask him about the FeLV combination treatment you were so kind to  write about. So many things to consider. I guess one of my concerns there is that I understand FIV, FeLV, and FIP are all somewhat similar, but I also know that FIP is different in that Tails' blood cell counts are all fine. But maybe the common denominator is that all of these kitties need their immune system boosted. Lots of questions.
Our new friend Kathryn also told me about an article in Alternative Medicine digest which talked about a promising treatment of FIP with thymus. Anyone else read or hear about that?>>

<<Purrsonally I'd consider the FIP nosode if I suspected FIP  based on symptoms (like in the case of Tails).  I've been
searching the web for some time now and haven't seen any  mention of the FIP nosode...darn, maybe it's not available in the US:(  Anyone know?

Randall, u mentioned your vet trained w/ Dr. Pitcairn, right?  If so, s/he would be familiar w/ an Isode.  That is when u take the diseased tissue of the person/cat u are trying to cure, and make a remedy from that using homeopathic principles of dilution, succussion etc.  That is closer to classical homeopathy than a nosode (FWIW, I'm not saying won't work since I have never tried it) which is not from that individual.

The other option is to try that Leukemia combo remedy (homeopathic) from that co. as per the article in Alternative Medicine.  Susan, do u think that article might help u w/ George too?  Poor kid is only a yr old, huh? That is so sad:(

All the very best healing vibes to Tails, George, Smudge, and all other kitties who need it.

Sandy>>

Hi Odila, listers,

Here are some sites which discuss FIP.  All are allopathic.  I haven't found any internet articles on holistic treatments.  Hope this helps!

http://web.vet.cornell.edu/public/fhc/felinehealth.html

http://www.tezcat.com/~ermiller/FIP.shtml

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/fab/is14.html

http://www.vetinfonet.com/fipnew.htm

http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/CEPS/petcolumns/fip97.htm

http://www.vetinfo.com/cfip.html

Susan

mailto:katseven@

<<Susan I just finished to read your message to Nick ,and happens that I need informations about FIP. Could you do me a great favor, please  post the URL FIP or otherwise>>

Hi,

One of the main things to know about FIP is whether you're dealing with the effusive or noneffusive form.  I'm not sure, but I think the non-effusive form is less contagious.  The only thing I can share is personal experience. In 1990, my cats somehow managed to get fleas, even though they're strictly indoor cats.  Anyway, after unsuccessfully trying powder, spray, etc, I was
desperate enough to have all the cats dipped.  It was the day from hell.  I had to catch everybody ( and they usually know what's up and make themselves invisible), sneak all the carriers out to the car ( I was worried about nosey neighbors), get everybody ( I had 13 kitties at that time) to the vet, come home and flea bomb, etc.  Anyway, I brought the kitties home later that evening and everybody seemed ok.  The next dayone of my males (9yrs old- had from birth) was sort of drooling, lethargic, etc.  Took him to the vet-I  thought it was reaction to dip, etc. She hospitalized him- did x-rays found that 1/2 his chest cavity was full of fluids--xrays looked like he had organs in only 1/2 his body.  She took a needle sample of fluids- they were yellow and sent for a biopsy/analysis, which came back FIP.  Needless to say, I was DEVASTATED because with all my other cats I was sure I was going to lose everybody.  Andy ended up dying the next day-there was nothing we could do :((   On the other hand, I I have been lucky because none of my other kitties came down with it , so don't automatically give up because it's FIP.   We think Andy may have been a carrier and with the stress of fleas and dippiing, it pushed him over the edge.

Hi, Niki--

I had a kitty who became infected with FIP and died from it.  My understanding is that this disease, once it develops into full-blown FIP, is virtually 100% fatal, but many kitties are exposed to the virus itself and do not develop the actual disease.  There are two forms, if I remember correctly, a dry form, and a wet form.  My kitty had the wet form.  She showed only signs of rapid breathing and weight loss at first, which caused me to take her in to the vet and thus get the  diagnosis.  It is hard to really diagnose the disease.  When my kitty had it, about 5 years ago, it was basically a trial-and-error process for the vet, eliminating other things until FIP was the only logical diagnosis.

I would definitely get the titre rechecked, and I would immediately start doing whatever possible to pump up the kitty's immune system.  I would get the kitty on a good diet, preferably a raw food diet, or at least a quality premium food, and make sure that s/he is getting all the vitamins necessary to keep as healthy as possible.

It's possible that the kitty was exposed to FIP, and because of a compromised immune system is now also battling other stuff, like an upper respiratory infection that just won't go away. Regardless, I'd question the vet about the necessity of continuing the antibiotics.  If there's no bacterial infection any longer, then antibiotics aren't serving much use, I don't think. They can't do a lick of good against a viral infection.  Your friend might want to consider trying some homeopathic remedies for the upper respiratory stuff (other people on the list are far more qualified than I am to give you info on those). I've used Pulsatilla on my kitties when they've had URI's, and I've had great success with that, while also using Vit C and Pet-tinic (an iron/vitamin supplement that's good for kitties that are anemic).

Good luck to your friend, and I hope all goes well.

Oh, and you might want to tell your friend that the FIP vaccine (at least, the one that was around a year or so ago, when I asked my vet about it) is considered a risky proposition by many vets, and so if it turns out that her cat doesn't have FIP, she might want to give SERIOUS thought to getting that vaccine.  It apparently has caused the disease in some cats, and has proven totally ineffective in other situations.

Gabby and los gatos fregados (the darn cats!)

In a message dated 1/17/99 8:24:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, gmperez7 writes:
<< understanding is that this disease, once it develops into full-blown  FIP, is virtually 100% fatal, but many kitties are exposed to the virus  itself and do not develop the actual disease. >>

It seems to be 100% fatal EVENTUALLY.  Less than those 5 years ago a friend's cat had FIP, she was told the cat HAD to be put down, even tho she was not near death, that all my friends' cats would get the disease and it was for everyone's good to put her down.  This cat's son is George, who has FIP.  He is the only cat from this mom who got it, and the breeder usually has around
10 cats at any given time.  My own Kelly has been "exposed" from George.  He is on prednisone, which has apparently reduced the inflammation in the liver. I also gave my friend a milk thistle/dandelion combination for the liver.  I of course think that has helped him, but the vet feels it is the pred.  and continues George on it.  Who knows?  Altho under other circumstances I would
never suggest pred., but in a life or death situation like George's I would probably do it.

So even tho 5 years ago FIP was considered a death sentence for the cat and any others in the household, and many cats who had only hi titers and not a positive diagnosis were put down, things have changed.  Vets have tried many treatments to see what might work.  If a vet diagnoses FIP, please don't give up until you've checked out all the options.  George has not gained back all the weight he lost, but he is eating very well and his liver is not as inflamed.  He's holding his own, goes in for tests on Tues.

Hang in there, all who are concerned about FIP.

Lee

<1/18/99 From Mary W-T Re: FIP>

hi

even if FIP has developed, a skilled veterinary homeopath can prescribe on the symptoms of the disease...

best wishes,

--

Mary Wulff-Tilford,DiHom;Herbalist,AHG

hey all-

here's that post from dr. susan little re: FIP.

begin quote:

Current research, I emphasize, shows that once a cat develops clinical FIP, they rarely - rarely - shed virus. All top researchers, all over the world, agree that cats with clinical FIP do not have to be isolated from other cats. FIP, the disease, is not usually contagious. The feline coronavirus, FECV (enteric coronavirus) is. This virus can sometimes mutate in an individual cat, under specific conditions, to cause the FECV to mutate into a disease-causing virus we then call FIPV.

I caution you that some vets are still diagnosing FIP on the basis of blood tests, either the antibody titres or the newer DNA-based tests. This is not wise and not recommended. It has been said that more cats have died because of the coronavirus antibody test than because of FIP. In other words, people were, and probably still are, falsely recommending euthanasia by diagnosing FIP on the basis of blood testing.

Outbreaks of FIP in households have been reported, but in the overall scheme of things, they are rare. They are most likely in a household or cattery where the individuals are closely genetically related, so that all may have an inherited susceptibility to develop FIP. Janet Foley, a leading researcher in Dr. Pedersen's lab at UC Davis, spoke to this point at the last American Assoc of Feline Practitioners meeting in Santa Fe NM (fall meeting 1998).

All I can do is caution breeders, pet owners, and vets to base their information on recent research. Many textbooks are now out of date in light of current research. The very nature of printed material like pamphlets and texts is that they are rapidly out of date (it takes at least 3 years for a textbook to reach print). FIP research is moving too rapidly for texts to keep up. Vets must update themselves - it is an effort, I know, and requires using precious time resources we are all short of - but this is one case where it is imperative.

As to your question about odds of exposure, we do know that the chances of having endemic coronavirus in your household rise with 6 cats or more. However, recent research done in catteries has shown that total number of cats is NOT a risk factor for FIP. Janet Foley's research shows these things are NOT risk factors:

• mean number of cats present
• mean age, sex of cats
• mean coronavirus antibody titre
• husbandry practices
• caging or breeding
• most coincidental diseases (FeLV and FIV would be an exception)
• in catteries or large multi-cat households, the shedding frequency of FECV (hard to determine at this time), proportion of chronic FECV shedders present

• age of an individual cat (peak age for FIP is 10 months of age)
• fall and winter seasons (mild effect)
• genetics (inherited susceptibility)
• age at exposure to coronavirus
• antibody titre (very weak effect and not reliable for prediction)

As to acquiring articles from veterinary journals - first try interlibrary loan systems, then university libraries. On the internet, you can use Medline - use PubMed - find the article in the search engine, and then order it via the document delivery system called Lonesome Doc. The free Medline site I use is at the National Library of Medicine:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/
Most articles in this database have good on-line abstracts you can read.  Go there and search using authors names: Foley, Pedersen, Addie, Horzinek  especially, and look at articles published from 1995-1998 for the most current research.

Dr. Susan
^^--^^--^^--^^--^^--^^--
Susan Little DVM

end quote

Vick and the kitty company: Skippy, Sam, Max and Jezebel