Hi all
CARDIOMYOPATHY
Cardiomyopathy refers to impaired function of the heart muscle. There
is more than one cause in cats, and not all causes are known.
Dilated cardiomyopathy occurs when the heart muscle loses its tone and becomes flaccid. The heart chambers overfill, the walls of the ventricles become thinner and the chambers enlarge. One cause of dilated cardiomyopathy is taurine deficiency. Another cause is myocarditis, which is inflammation of the heart muscle. (Virus diseases and autoimmune diseases have been implicated in the cause of myocarditis in humans.)
Dilated cardiomyopathy is often a rapid onset disease that progresses over two or three days as the heart begins to fail. The most frequent sign is labored breathing at rest.
The treatment of dilated CM is directed at correcting taurine deficiency when present, and controlling fluid retention. A restricted mineral and sodium diet is recommended.
Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy tends to affect cats one to five years of age. In this condition the walls of the ventricles become thick. However, because the muscle fibers are replaced by scar tissue, the thicker heart wall does not translate into increased pumping power. Loss of pep and appetite and reduced exercise tolerance are signs.
Hypertrophic CM requires the use of drugs that relax the heart and increase its efficiency. Most of the drugs used in treating heart disease in people are used for similar purposes in small animals. The choice depends on the stage of illness and presence or absence of complicating factors such as arrhythmia. These measures often yield results in a longer, more comfortable and active life for your cat.
Accurate diagnosis is necessary to establish which form of the disease is present to provide the proper therapy. Chest X-ray, electrocardiogram, ultrasound of the heart and thyroid function tests are utilized.
Coolness of the feet and ears and a below normal body temperature are
signs of poor circulation. Heart murmurs are common.
Loss of appetite, rapid weight loss, weakness, fainting attacks and
crying out spells often accompany the above signs of illness.
I haven't found a lot of stuff on the Net connected with CoQ10 and cats, but http://www.homevet.com (Dr. Jeff Feinman) mentions it. He may be willing to direct your vet to his info if you wish.
Also:
It's true that the human studies seem to have dealt more with CoQ10
and dilated CM but if it was my cat I'd try it with hypertrophic CM also.
10mg daily seems to be a minimum dose, with 30mg having been recommended
by a feline cardiologist as a therapeutic dose, and the owners on the Holisticat
list with CM cats are using that dosage.
--Jean, Saski Basket & Amber Sweet T'ing
On 29 Nov 98 at 19:47, Sandy A. wrote:
<< wordlady@interlog.com wrote:
Saski is still taking Diltiazem for his cardiomyopathy, and I've just
found out that, among many side effects, it can cause severe liver damage.
Jean, Booey was prescribed Cardizem for his HCM. Is this the same drug or diff? I was so alarmed when I went to pick it up at the pharmacy cuz it's side effects were - irregular heartbeat and kidney failure!!! I had a cow, man! Cuz those were Booey's symptoms to beging w/..arghhh.>>
Hi Sandy and Jean,
Long overdue greetings to you and to Booey and Saski! It's been so good to read about Saski's improvement. Jean, have you adopted this guy yet, or is he still a foster cat (she asked hopefully)?
When Luigi was first diagnosed with HCM, I read everything I could about heart disease in general, this one in particular, and the possible treatments from every perspective I could find. One interesting read was a book on human heart disease I found in a health food store, and one of the most startling things to me was how it said that with the usual allopathic methods of treatment, it was just about ASSUMED, statistically speaking, that the disease would ultimately kill the patient anyhow. Some "treatments", I thought! The conventional apologists defend the drugs of choice that are typically used by saying, "look how much more quality time we can buy for the patient by using these wonderful therapies!" (I think that is a hollow victory, though.)
The writer of the book went on to explain from a holistic viewpoint
how the drugs were actually only useful for the short term, to get through
a crisis that might have otherwise killed the patient, and prevent that
from happening. But they would lose their usefulness very soon thereafter.
And if the drugs were used long-term, they would actually began contributing
TO the diseaseprocess, rather than doing anything positive to help it!
They apparently have the effect of causing the heart and circulatory system
to progressively weaken over time, due to their dependence on the drugs'
action, which functions as a
sort of "crutch". I wish I could remember more details about
this, including the name of the book and the author, but I read it in the
store cover to cover (translated: I was too cheap to buy it <g>).
Anyway, this concept really freaked me out, made me wonder why on earth my vet would want Luigi on his meds "forever", and provided the impetus for my resolve to wean him off all drugs a.s.a.p., which I did within the next couple of months. I figure that if he ever has another crisis, I can put him on those again, but not for the long term. Meanwhile, I feel better just keeping him on the herb and supplement regimen which has done him a world of good so far, and I don't think anything he's taking can have any bad side effects to the liver or kidneys.
Luigi feels a lot better too, as one of the side effects of the drugs
(I don't know if it was the diltiazem or the atenolol) was to put him in
an almost contant state of lethargy. Now he is generally more boisterously
active than I would have ever thought possible two years ago, when he was
just mostly lying around or ambling slowly about like an old man.
He now regularly runs
full-speed through the house, unable to stop but sliding 4-5 feet on
the vinyl floor with his big furry feet. He will bolt straight up
to the top of the cats' treehouse in about a split second, making it shake
on its limbs, or jump up on my shoulder for a treat. In short, he
behaves like a normal 4 year old cat. He never did these things while
we had him drugged. Now this is truly what I call "quality of life",
and it does MY heart so much good to see it. We have a lot to be
thankful for!
Just my $.02, and a belated Thanksgiving wishes to all!
-- Susan in FL (unlurking briefly in the midst of busyness)
In a message dated 11/29/98 4:36:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, wordlady@
writes:
<< Saski is still taking Diltiazem for his cardiomyopathy, and
I've just found out that, among many side effects, it can cause severe
liver damage. I'm thinking of giving him milk thistle to counteract
this. Any comments on advisability, dosage and method of giving it?
>>
Milk thistle is excellent for protecting the liver. I think it's a good choice. You could also use hawthorn for the heart rather than a drug that will cause problems.
Elaine C, N.D.
Up With Herbs
Hi all
Well! Talked to my friendly pharmacist today about the plateau stage for Diltiazem. In Saski's case at 15mg a day, it's approx 25 hours.
So I said to the pharmacist -
Scenario: Cat with severe cardiomyopathy, with episodes of heavy panting
on exertion approx 10 or 15 times a day. I start him on Diltiazem, CoQ10
and taurine. For 2 months there's no difference in the panting. After 2-1/2
months it starts to lessen, and after 3 months it stops. Would you say
this is the Diltiazem "kicking in"? (The vet's phrase) Or the natural medicine
taking its usual 3 months?
Hmmm, says my pharmacist, I wouldn't say it's the Diltiazem.
No, says Jean, I wouldn't either. Guess who's going to be (slowly) withdrawn from Diltiazem? <VBG>
--Jean, Saski (who's about to get *much* healthier) and Amber the Gentle
On Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:33:54 Leah writes:
<<doesn't like this vet much). I guess the enzymes that pertain
to heart activity have been somewhat elevated all along, but now the CPK
is higher than it should be. For those of you who have CRF kitties
with heart disease, when you've had blood panels done, what is the CPK
level? >>
That's interesting..Booey's CPK levels have always been well w/in the normal range. None of his vets every brought it up so I just checked and see it has been rising but is still normal. His hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM) was diagnosed first when the vet discovered the murmur and irregularity in his heartbeat. Then we took him for an ultrasound and EKG to confirm that the heart walls indeed were thickened.
<< It must be a given that a CRF kitty will eventually have some heart troubles?>>
I think it all comes down to blood flow in the sense that I think Boo's kidney problems are a result of his heart problem. The heart pumps too fast and inefficiently; this decreases blood flow to the kidneys and makes his kidney problem worse. They are most definitely interrelated, as is the hi BP. If I had a cat w/ just a CRF diagnosis, I'd worry first about the BP. I lost my file that had the statistics for this but I do remember it was a pretty hi % of CRF cats that also had hi BP..makes sense that the arterial tension would be affected. That's where allopaths go wrong; treating one part of the body in isolation thereby making the other organs weak..to wit the kidney/liver failure problem from Cardizem <sigh>
So if I were u, I'd just monitor Giddy's heart and BP while tossing in a few BP and heart-friendly herbs such as Siberian Ginseng and Hawthorne (which is a mild diuretic so good for kidneys too).
Great news about his kidney values holding steady! The PMG u were referring to - is that the Renafood? I need to check w/ you on your regimen and see what I can do to modify Booey's since his kidney #s are so much worse now:(
Sandy, owned and operated by the mountain cats
On 30 Nov 98 at 9:56, wordlady@ wrote:
<<Elaine, I've been holding back on hawthorn b/c of something Nancy K wrote some time ago (in case anyone is still in doubt, I'm an email packrat <g> ) Apparently her vet cardiologist said do not mix hawthorn & CoQ10 b/c hawthorn can both increase and decrease contractility of the heart. So without an alt-med vet seeing Saski, I'm reluctant to use it... Any other comments from anyone welcome, please!>>
Jean, as I've mentioned here before, I have been giving Luigi both hawthorn
and CoQ10 since long before that post was made. It did make me wonder
when I read it, but I ultimately asked myself, why should I mess with what
seems to be doing so much good? On the other hand, the CoQ10 I've
been giving him is crystalline powder, so maybe it is ineffective anyway?
I've always wondered about *that* too, ever since it was discussed here,
but since I've not found a liquid version of CoQ10 other than in grossly
overpriced gelcaps, I've stuck with it... I began with the herbal
extracts including hawthorn (am now using
Gaia brand "solid extract", which I've been given to understand is
very high quality stuff), and added the CoQ10 later after hearing good
things about it from a friend who was giving it to a dog with good results.
Relevant to the discussion on the other thread, I started him with the herbs oh, about two weeks after the diagnosis and beginning of allopathic heart meds, added the CoQ10 about a month after that, and weaned him off the drugs completely by about 4 months after diagnosis (only I took about a month to accomplish it, reducing the amounts little by little each week).
I'm an e-mail packrat too, but accidentally dumped all the cat stuff I'd saved (argggh!) If you wouldn't mind forwarding me that one about the hawthorne, I'll take better care of it this time. ;)
I haven't been to any alt-vets with Luigi, either.
-- Susan
hi All
I *love and respect* Susan Wynn for her scientific rationale, but herbalists
and vets disagree on the use of Hawthorn in Hypertrophic cardiomyopathies......herbalists
believe that it is such a Tonic herb/food, that it will not hurt the heart,
no matter what the dis-ease is. People/animals EAT the berries, they EAT
the plant, without any problems whatsoever. It is a very tonic herb/medicine,
and it will adjust to what the heart needs......
--
Mary Wulff-Tilford, DIHom; Professional Herbalist,A.H.G.
ANIMALS' APAWTHECARY
Hi all
<<Yes, Nancy, you're right, I was mixed up for sure. I did more checking in my old emails and found that Peggy mentioned that Dr. Susan Wynn posted advising caution in using it with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (she doesn't recommend it) because one of its properties is that it increases the strength of the heart's contractions. OTOH, Sandy has been using it for Booey, and Susan for Luigi - right, guys? - with good results. So the debate continues.>>
FWIW, the homeopathic vet we've consulted in the past for Kashmir was adamantly opposed to me using hawthorn for Kashmir's enlarged heart for that very reason. She said that Kashmir's heart is working hard enough as it is and to make it try to work harder could be dangerous. I've never found any information to back that up, but it scared me into not using it. No, I can't argue with success that others have had using it, but I for one am afraid to.
Take care all
Kathy and the cats
Hi, Jean, everyone,
<<Poor Thackeray. :-( Did your vet say how his form
of dilated CM differs from the one caused by lack of taurine? And how was
the vet able to make that diagnosis? Is Thackeray a rescue cat? Kate,
I'd be really interested in knowing more about this b/c I
didn't realize that dilated CM could be caused by anything but a lack
of taurine...?>>
Good questions! I don't know how Thackeray's form differs from the usual dilated CM. Thack's heart muscle may be inflamed, but I'm just not sure. We were at the vet's a *long* time, and he hates going to the vet so I tried to hurry the visit along. I'll keep everyone posted as I learn more.
Yes, he and his siblings are rescue cats. Fifteen years ago, my
hubby's favorite cat was run over by a car. Shortly after that I
read about a kitty foster-home project in my area, and I decided it
would be a good way to "interview" cats. I asked for one or
two, and got a sibling set of four. We named them "A", "B", "C",
and "D" so we would not become emotionally attached :>
We were to keep them eight weeks and then return them to the center. So, we taught them how to scratch, how to go to the bathroom, how to get along with dogs, how to get along with kids. In the end --yup, you guessed it -- we kept all four.
Charles Dickens died nine years ago. I think he had dilated CM
too, but I am not positive. My heart still grieves for him; I
miss him so!
Charlotte Bronte is alive and well except that on the same vet visit that we discovered Thack's DCM, Charlotte was diagnosed with hyperthyroid. She's on tapazole, and improving. I need to work on her diet too. Willa Cather plans to live an additional fifteen years. She is fat and happy, and her coat gleams.
In the meantime, their mother is working hard to learn how to help them.
I am grateful to all of you for being so generous
with your advice and experience.
Best,
Kate
Hello Again--
I just wanted to offer an update on Pumpkin and his recent visit to a holistic vet for treatment of cardiomyopathy and pancreatitis. A couple of days ago, I wrote an update that was turning into a short novel--bad habit of mine. It is probably for the best that my computer froze before that message could be saved. This time I will make it shorter, but also offer that whoever is interested in more information that might be helpful to their kitties could please write to me privately and I will respond as quickly as possible.
First, he's doing great. The particular vet I went to is a DVM, homeopath, and also a veterinary acupuncturist--and I had excellent unbiased referrals that he was highly qualified and successful with his patients. I believe that the acupuncture treatment Pumpkin received was extremely helpful and plan to take him back for more. Pumpkin went through an interesting process after treatment that I would be happy to share with anyone who is interested. There has been little talk of cupuncture on this list, but I feel if you can find someone who knows what they are doing it is an extremely useful tool in balancing out your kitty's systems and preparing him to heal. Note: He did not use needles and the process was not in the least uncomfortable for Pumpkin or I would never have done it.
To add to the food confusion, what I got from him was a huge rally for Flint River and raw hamburger meat only. I'm using my own judgement on that and am trying to adjust Pumpkin's food using all the information I have gathered since learning about this list and other sources of information.
He prescribed his own combination herbal heart treatment. I would
be happy to share the ingredients with anyone who is interested, But will
say here that he does use Hawthorne and insists that it is perfectly safe
even when used along with Diltiazem and to treat hypertrophic (as opposed
to dilated) cardiomyopathy(i've been following the debate). I haven't
given this to
Pumpkin yet because he is easily stressed by any change to his food,
and we're trying to slow down the process of adding new things.
His energy has greatly improved since the addition of lecithin and digestive enzymes (to ease the load on his pancreas), his vomiting and constipation have decreased enormously , and the vet encouraged me to continue the 100 IUs of Vit E everyday. His heart rate is not terrible and the murmer and arythmia were not detectable. (this I have to say, must be attributed mostly to his daily Diltiazem since that's the only thing that I had been using, aside from the vits, to aid his heart) So thank you to everyone on the list for their helpful suggestions. I feel like I'm finally starting to put all the pieces together.
Now, I must begin research on CRF, since he has borderline kidney failure, but this has taken a back seat to his other more apparently threatening problems. Hopefully, I'll be able to slow down a worsening of this condition.
Thanks again to everyone!
Emily P
wordlady@ wrote:
<< And while I'm on the subject, can anyone describe what a cardiac cough sounds like? Saski does a sort of semi-sneeze thing fairly often, sounds like a short wet 'whurf' with a sneeze quality. Gee, hope that translates the way I want! <g> >>
One of my cats, and my d*g do something that sounds like what you described. When they do it there are several of the the wet 'whurf' sounds in a row, not just one....sort of like a "multi-sneeze." Our vets (both allo and holistic) examined the cat and suggested that the cause might be allergies because they didn't find any problems with his heart or his lungs. Later, I asked an online vet about the dog and he said pretty much the same thing, that it sounded like a post-nasal drip reaction. This seems plausible to me because I get a tickle from post-nasal drip occasionally and it feels just like they sound when they're coughing.
Carole (and the furry kids)
I'd say that most likely it's the antibiotics and the stress of strange
flavors put in her mouth that is causing her refusal to eat. The
form of diltiazem we give Pumpkin is in time- release pellets, specially
compounded for veterinary purposes. If you can talk the pharmacist
into making it without the powdery stuff they use to balance out
the weight(costs more), the pellets are virtually tasteless--or must be
anyway, because Pumpkin will refuse the flavor of anything remotely unusual
in his food. We wouldn't be
giving him anything daily, unless he'd take it in his food.
Since you are only doing this for 10 days, though, the pill popper might
be the easiest, less stressful way to go.
All my best strong healing vibes to Kashmir and Thackeray.
Emily
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