On It's Own

(Or: This one was too big for the other page!)

Richard Clarke - 12/14/00 20:35:04
My Email:m25anticlockwise@hotmail.com
Belief: Christian
Location: Bath

Comments:

Dear Mr English Atheist. I love you. God loves you. I am as bad as you, yes....and as bad as Hitler. I am as good as Princess Diana or Mother Teresa. The Bible teaches us about the human condition. None of us is perfect. In fact, the opposite is true; we are all hopeless sinners. All good things come from God. I too have read Orwell, Huxley and the rest. You can trust in your intellect if you like, but it won't get you anywhere. Read Ecclestaistes: 'Meaningless, meaningless says the teacher...' You can look all you like for answers from this earth, but you won't find anything. It is tempting to dismiss all Americans because they are different. May i remind you, though that it is not intellect or education that makes you any better than anyone else. Remember Albert Einstein's (possibly the cleverest guy) words about God and Science. I will pray for you. God can move mountains. I fear you have some misunderstandings about Christianity, though. You will believe only if someone can prove it to you. Oh well done!!!!!! (sarcastic) Please think very carefully about the importance of faith -and where faith would be with proof. Also find me proof about gravity or the big bang. Science itself is only an assessment of the likelihood of something being true, based on the evidence. If you have read the gospels of Jesus, what conclusion does that leave you with. Was Jesus liar, lunatic or Lord?- As C.S Lewis once asked. When jesus was tempted in the wilderness, what did he do?? Did he perform the magical displays that he was baited, or did he resist? Could Jesus have performed them....yes he could....see his other miracles. (healing etc) Jesus did not test his God, but God could have provided. If you want you can do this little test to see whether you will become a Christian. The bible also makes it clear, though that the word of God may harden some peoples hearts as it reveals the truth about them. Becoming a Christian isn't about religion. On the little survey, which asked 'has religion done more harm than good' i said it has done more harm. Yep, the crusades etc were hopelessly misconstrued for political reasons, under the banner of religion. (Possibly a similar generalisation was made about Arabs as you make about American Christians). If you don't believe in Jesus as man and God (the only religion that makes such a claim) i hope you have taken note aabout the way he did things- his compassion and servanthood. He was not religious, put he cared deeply about people. You and me. i would love to hear from you. I am praying for you. Please, please, though... i am not going to get into apologetics. If you want that go to a theology lecturer. I will leave you with this question: Do you think you are better than Hitler? Do you think you are a worse person than Mother Teresa? Do you think that you are capable of doing amazing things? Do you love me as much as i love you? (remember God loves you infinitely more!) Yours, Rich Thank you for your web-site!!!!!!

Hi Richard, your entry in my guestbook has a feel of the jester about it, a feel of the atheist posing as a Christian, but I will reply as though you are serious.

Dear Mr English Atheist. I love you. God loves you.

Mmm... what do we have here then? How about this Richard, why do you need an imaginary super-being to be kind to people? Can't you be nice and loving without the supernatural clap-trap? Loads of people are gentle, caring and loving without recourse to a bronze-age myth. Let's imagine your god does exist - if your god is omniscient, he knew from the first moment of his existence that I would be an Atheist. At that exact, same moment he condemned me to eternal torture in Hell - because of my non-belief, which he ordained that I should embrace. How can your god love me? It seems like you worship a nasty, hateful sky-brat.

I am as bad as you, yes....and as bad as Hitler.

You know nothing of me apart from what you have seen on this website. Am I bad for speaking my mind? Or would you have me follow the Christian ignorance is bliss doctrine? To accuse me of being even remotely akin to Hitler would be a really nasty insult. But to accuse me of being as bad as Hitler is that plus a pathetic, invalid personal attack. What can I say? You seem as though you are in need of medical assistance.

I am as good as Princess Diana or Mother Teresa.

Keep taking the pills - I am sure they will kick-in any day now, but make absolutely, doubly sure that you do keep taking them.

The Bible teaches us about the human condition.

Your point being? Your guestbook entry certainly taught me about your condition!

None of us is perfect. In fact, the opposite is true; we are all hopeless sinners.

Speak for yourself. I'm innocent until proven guilty. :-)

All good things come from God.

And if god is the creator of the everything, all bad things come from god. You forgot that bit.

I too have read Orwell, Huxley and the rest.

Ah, you read the 'Lying for Jesus page' did you? Yes, I was an avid reader when I was a spotty adolescent. But you missed the point of what I was saying on that page didn't you? Do you interpret your Holy Bible in the same slipshod fashion?

You can trust in your intellect if you like, but it won't get you anywhere.

I am not an intellectual. And you make an invalid proposition. Intellect is no guarantee of 'getting anywhere'. However I do place my trust in facts, evidence and reality. The very things that you have to abandon in becoming a god fearing Christian.

Read Ecclestaistes: 'Meaningless, meaningless says the teacher...' You can look all you like for answers from this earth, but you won't find anything.

Bloiahh hf[ ioioo, ij sd p[0iwp[oi! Oooomsl mmksm as'kj,slkslk: "s;kj kjaf;klkk jdiuyrt nnnn". Tjdfj. Jootuuy asokijsg a dkjfdkj kjj. I skk r kjfd. Hey look! Meaningless babble - just like you wrote!

It is tempting to dismiss all Americans because they are different. May i remind you, though that it is not intellect or education that makes you any better than anyone else.

Why on earth are you tempted to dismiss all Americans? Are you crackers? And where on this website have I said that I am better than anyone else? Why did you make that up? I had nothing more than a mediocre education. Why not try reading what I have written, not what you want to see. Do you do the same with your bronze-age book? You are almost forcing me to think that Christians are worse than I originally thought.

Remember Albert Einstein's (possibly the cleverest guy) words about God and Science.

You mean this?:

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science", New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930.

Or this? (from Albert Einstein: Philosopher Scientist, Harper Torchbooks, Vol. 1,1959 page 103) :

"Einstein was once asked -- to settle an argument -- whether he believed in God. He replied that he believed in Spinoza's God’. Since for Spinoza the words 'God' and 'Nature' were synonymous Einstein was, in the eyes of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, unequivocally an atheist."

So are you asking me to agree with you concerning what Albert Einstein had to say about religious belief despite what you wrote earlier? Help me here, you are beginning to sound as though you are mad. And no, I won't teach you about Spinoza. Look him up - like I did. I won't go into the "dice" quote - it's been done to death.

I will pray for you.

OK. But to what ends? The phrase means nothing unless you say what you hope to achieve in your act of prayer for me - prior to the event. When and if you do, and depending on what happens in the real world, we will be able to determine if your prayer was worthless mumbo-jumbo won't we?

God can move mountains.

OK. Where? When? Proof? Show me, I dare you.

I fear you have some misunderstandings about Christianity, though.

This is a hollow assertion. Perhaps some examples that I could work with would have helped. And why be afraid about any misunderstandings that I may have? What's the point?

You will believe only if someone can prove it to you. Oh well done!!!!!! (sarcastic) Please think very carefully about the importance of faith -and where faith would be with proof.

Yup, proof. And until that time, I will remain an atheist. Please think carefully as to why Adam and Eve, Noah, Moses, Abraham, well, loads of Biblical characters really, did have proof. They were supposed to have met your god almost on a daily basis. Faith was not required for the 5000 people who the Biblical character Jesus was meant to have met and fed. Faith was not required for the so called apostles. Faith was not required for the tens of thousands of people who must have seen all the zombie saints jitterbugging around Jerusalem. If faith was not required or important for them, why should it be for me? Or you? You only have to have faith to carry the myth through time, because that's the only way your non-provable paranormal beliefs can survive.

Also find me proof about gravity or the big bang.

I am not a cosmologist. I am quite neutral as to the possibility of the big bang being - at the moment. However, CERN have recently detected what they believe to be Higgs particles. Who would have dared to think of that 30 years ago? Even if it takes hundreds of years we are nearer to proof of a naturally occurring universe than we are to proof of anything supernatural. Even if a formal proof of a naturally occurring universe were not forthcoming, how would that omission prove a pre-universe creator god? Gravity? This one is easy to prove - it is a testable theory that has been around for hundreds of years. Go and find a tall building, jump off the top, and on your way down say this to yourself, "I wonder what Isaac Newton had to say about the force which appears to be pulling me towards the ground at exactly the rate I would expect to be accelerating, due to the gravitational pull of the earth-sized planet below me?" Just before you hit the ground, pray to your god to make you float down safely to a nice, gentle touch-down. I guarantee that at the exact moment you land you will believe in gravity, but not your fictional god or the power of prayer. Isaac Newton was a Christian.

Science itself is only an assessment of the likelihood of something being true, based on the evidence.

Even though I make few calls to science on this site, there are a couple things that that you forgot to mention. Testability and repeatability. Neither of which have ever applied to the paranormal.

If you have read the gospels of Jesus, what conclusion does that leave you with.

I was unaware that the Biblical character Jesus wrote any gospels, so I will assume that you mean the gospel of John and the synoptic gospels. The multiple variations of the resurrection story, the stolen pre-Christian philosophy, the adoption of pre-Christian virgin born/crucified saviour theology, the anonymous post-resurrection authorship, the dragons, the man-headed monsters, angels, the Christ-taught threats of hellfire, the multiple contradictions, the absurdities - these are the conclusions that this reader is left with.

Was Jesus liar, lunatic or Lord?- As C.S Lewis once asked.

The point is moot - I don't believe that the Biblical character existed in reality.

When jesus was tempted in the wilderness, what did he do?? Did he perform the magical displays that he was baited, or did he resist? Could Jesus have performed them....yes he could....see his other miracles. (healing etc) Jesus did not test his God, but God could have provided.

Incoherent babble. Again. Sigh.

How do you know that your Jesus figure was tempted in the wilderness? Who was there to record the events? Until you can answer this with known facts, I cannot continue down this track. Remember the gospels were not written until way after Jesus was supposed to have ascended to heaven, and they are by anonymous writers. And I don't think that you are in possession of hitherto unknown 1st century extra-Biblical, contemporary evidence are you? Why do you spout this fairy-tale nonsense?

Magic tricks. Boy, are you easily impressed! Did David Copperfield really make the Statue of Liberty vanish? Does David Blaine really float in mid-air?

If you want you can do this little test to see whether you will become a Christian. The bible also makes it clear, though that the word of God may harden some peoples hearts as it reveals the truth about them.

You do know that using the Bible as evidence of anything Biblical is laughable, don't you? Please, you can do better than this.

Becoming a Christian isn't about religion.

It need not be, in this respect I agree with you. However, being a Christian is not a pre-requisite for being a good person.

On the little survey, which asked 'has religion done more harm than good' i said it has done more harm. Yep, the crusades etc were hopelessly misconstrued for political reasons, under the banner of religion.

OK. You forgot all the other nasty stuff though, didn't you?

(Possibly a similar generalisation was made about Arabs as you make about American Christians).

And then you go and spoil it with a bland, no example, assertion. You are not an American Christian are you? Well if you are, stop peddling your invisible space-alien lies over here in the UK. We don't want them, we don't believe them, and we are doing just fine without them.

If you don't believe in Jesus as man and God (the only religion that makes such a claim) i hope you have taken note aabout the way he did things- his compassion and servanthood.

I don't believe in the paranormal. Period. Try reading up on pre-Christian man/god mythology, because you are demonstrably wrong in your Christo-centric false assertion. Again, it does not take belief in your, or anyone else's mythology to be a good person. You must really think very little of yourself if you think that it does.

He was not religious,

This one beggars belief. I don't know what to write. We can't be reading the same Bible.

put he cared deeply about people. You and me.

Please see my previous replies (above). However the biblical character of Jesus equated gentiles (you and me) with "dogs" - Mark 7:27, instructed his disciples to "Go nowhere amongst the gentiles" - Matt 10:5, and even at first refused to heal a gentile child, finally doing so only after the child's mother came up with a clever saying - Matt 15:21-28.

Jesus accused the Pharisees of being "vipers" and "hypocrites" - there are too many examples of this , so try looking them up yourself.

He got angry with people - Mark 3:5.

He cursed people when they were not impressed enough with his "mighty works" to believe what he taught - Matt 11:22-24 and Luke 10:13-15.

Addressed his mother as "woman"!

... and bought disgrace on his father and mother - Gal 3:13.

i would love to hear from you.

This reply will be in "The English Atheist" for all to see.

I am praying for you.

And writing in my guestbook at the same time. Cool.

Please, please, though... i am not going to get into apologetics. If you want that go to a theology lecturer.

There is no reason to link apologetics with the teaching of theology. It is perfectly possible to an atheist theology lecturer. You have used the word 'apologetics' in a fashion that makes me think you don't know what it means!

I will leave you with this question:

Chuff me! You can't even count! And how much more ambiguous could you have made the questions anyway?

Do you think you are better than Hitler?

Well, I never commanded a Europe-wide blitzkrieg or committed genocide.

Do you think you are a worse person than Mother Teresa?

I don't consider that suffering is good for people, and would prefer that there was no poverty on the planet.

Do you think that you are capable of doing amazing things?

Yes. Proof? It's amazing that I am taking your guestbook entry as seriously as I am.

Do you love me as much as i love you?

There is no way of telling, because there is no way of quantifying deep affection.

Yours, Rich Thank you for your web-site!!!!!!

Thank you for your guestbook entry, it was mildly amusing. There is only need for one exclamation mark, but if you need any advice on this, go and see an English teacher.

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