Bangkok Post November 16, 1997


AN INTERVIEW WITH SULAK SIVARAKSA

Back to basics for middle classes



by CHITRAPORN VANASPONG

As he sat among huge piles of books in his study, Sulak Sivaraksa sipped tea and smiled about Thailand's crisis.

"Of course the economic slump affected my business," said the 64-year-old social critic in a relaxed manner.

"Our book orders abroad, for instance. The prices soared when the baht devalued and then government agencies - our main customers - don't buy our books anymore. And then we received a lot of cheques that bounced."

Nothing, however, broke his composure.

"I am trying to avoid laying off my people. I am not sure how long I can run this business but I am not, as yet, cutting the pay of my staff," he said cheerfully. "I run it like a small family business."

Sulak said international bodies have taken over the world economy. Examples of these bodies are the WTO, the IMF and the World Bank, which support the growth of transnational and multinational companies, not small, local businesses like his.

"I know I could be bankrupt soon," he admitted with a grin. "Then we may look for some other kind of business. The whole system is just like that."

Sulak lives simply, without many of the conveniences of the material world. As he spoke of social chaos, political problems, and economic crises, the corners of his lips remained benignly upturned.



How can urban middle-class people live happily in this economic crisis?

You are suffering because you think you are. In truth, the middle-class continue to have three meals; half of the world population go to bed without having eaten.

The middle-class must know that it is the lower-class that supports them. Eat the cheaper food that these urban poor sell on the streets and save your money too. However bad the economy is, you'll never die. You may get less pay and receive no bonus, but spend 10 or 20 baht for a meal is enough.

People feel they are very much affected because the economic system makes them feel that way. You have to stop drinking expensive wines, buying imported clothes, and eating expensive food. For me, those things are extravagant and you should not have adopted them in the first place. Now they become your burden by making you feel that your life is getting worse, which is not true.

If you ask me why I still am smiling although my book business is about to collapse, the answer is: I am contented with life and I understand the whole picture of the large system that we live under.

I don't buy imported stuffs. I don't eat fastfood. I don't buy imported wine . . . well, I drink some if somebody gives me wine.

And given another business chance, I'll do it. If I have to cut my own salary to keep my employees hired, I'll do it.

Let's think of the world in the Buddhist way: that everything we do affects others.

Despite everything, I see the good side of this crisis. I hope that it will open the eyes of the middle-class and make them aware how they have been manipulated by consumerism and materialism.



What can the middle-class do to improve the situation?

They should go back to their roots. They should go back and join hands with the lower-class. Under this economic system, the Thai middle-class are cut loose from their own roots. There are those who are embarrassed by a grandmother who can't speak Thai, or of a grandfather because he is a farmer. There are things that teach us to be embarrassed because we are Thai.

I disagree with the concept of globalisation, which I think is just another form of neo-colonialism. The term "development" is neo-colonialism too. These are the terms for the things that hurt us when the economy slumps.

That's why I feel that we must go back to our own roots, to respect ghosts, gods and goddesses which teach us not to abuse anything.



So you are not against superstition?

Superstition itself has two sides. I equate superstition with technology. Like superstitions, we don't understand technology but we believe it. We don't understand how automobiles and airplanes work but we believe they will.

Superstition can be beneficial if we use it well. For instance, to believe in the goddess of the tree is good because we don't cut the tree. That is one superstition that serves a good purpose. It is in this sense that I am not against superstition.



What can you say about the prevalence of superstition in daily life?

There is nothing wrong with that. Superstition can be cheaper than modern technology, which is a mental support system for poor people.

For instance, you get sick and have no money. You go to a government hospital, wait for four or five hours for the doctor. The doctor never smiles and you have to pay for the medicine. You feel like a beggar asking for help at the hospital. You lose your dignity at the hospital.

On the other hand, if you go to the Erawan Shrine, you know it is open for you 24 hours a day and all the four faces of Brahma smiles at you, all his eight ears always listen to you.

I don't say that superstition is better than science. But I see it as a cheaper system for the poor, while modern medicine is available for people who have enough money.



How do you view social problems that follow the economic crisis?

The answer is the same: You suffer because you think you are. People commit suicide because they think they have lost everything: money, face.

These people allowed the illusion of wealth lead them; they think money is everything. They feel that without money, they have nothing left. They think that to lose a job is to lose face. They feel that they lost dignity because they are labeled "unemployed".

But all of these is only how you perceive the world and how you perceive yourself.



Do you feel that this crisis of the economy can be solved?

The ecomony can be good and bad anytime. That is natural. But that is not the point: if the economoy recovers, people will enjoy it again, and then they will be hurt again.

We should give up the hope that we will go back to richness again. We have to accept the truth that an old man cannot go back to become a young man again. We have to understand that is life and accept it.



Let's talk about politics. With the new constitution, do you think Thailand is entering a new stage of democracy?

In the short term, there will be no changes.

Don't believe that the new constitution is better than the old one. First of all, we know that the constitution drafting committee members were elected by MPs. These MPs enter the House with bought votes. How can these kind of people create the democracy we dream of?



Do you feel that people would feel this in the coming election which is held under the new constitution?

The old system of vote-buying has not been changed. It is easier for politicians to buy votes under the one-man-one-vote system. The general public does not understand the context of the new constitution. We hardly discussed the strengths and the weaknesses of the constitution. Instead, many feel that it can solve all their problems.

It is an illusion to believe that the economy will recover now that Chavalit has resigned. I tried to warn the public when they rallied for the resignation of Chavalit. They got angry at me.

The concept of democracy as the government is out of date and selecting the right leader will not help. This economic slump is a problem with a larger structure than the Prime Minister. Don't hope for angels in the next election. These people campaign for parliamentary seats because they want to enrich themselves.

The only good thing about the constitution was the drafting process. It showed the important step of political concern among the Thai public. People show more interest in politics than before, and it it a good sign of Thailand's political development in the future. Just hope that this economic crisis can make people concern more about the real problem we are facing.



Would you agree that a real, working democracy is not about parliamentary activities?

Of course. We must empower the people's power. The middle-class should step down and unite with the lower-class and fight together to put the pressure to the government and create some changes, that is the real democracy. Thailand has adopted democracy for 65 years, and we never go anywhere far from the start because we never step down to the ground. And in this sense, I think Chavalit is still better than previous prime ministers.



Can you name the reasons why you supported Chavalit when the public was against him?

I respect Chavalit because he listens to the poor. It was proven when we the Forum of the Poor rallied in front of the Government House for 99 days. He did try to solve as many problems as possible. This is, for me, a good sign. When the government listens to people and see that they are powerful, I think it is the good sign of a real democracy.

He is better than other previous prime ministers, such as Mr Chuan and Mr Banharn who never cared to listen to the voice of the public in this way.



You mention many times that middle-class should step down and join hands with the poor. But how can you make the middle-class realise that this is the solution of the crisis?

It is true that the education system teaches people to always look higher. University graduates dream of better lives and getting richer. Even the Buddhist monks have a system of hierarchy.

We should stop, look up, and step down to the truth of life. You should go to see how people under the bridges live their lives.

As Tolstoy said: I will help you but I am not going to get down from your back. The middle-classes should understand that the whole system of present development hurts these people, the way we see things, and the way we live our lives. Just these little things hurt the little people.


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