14	---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15				BLAIR GLUBA
16	having been first duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole
17	truth, and nothing but the truth, testified as follows:
18			 DIRECT EXAMINATION
19	BY MR. CARLSON:
20	Q	State your name for us, please, and spell your last
21	name.
22	A	My name is Blair N. Gluba, and my name is spelled
23	G-L-U-B-A.
24	Q	What’s your business, profession or occupation, Mr.
25	Gluba?
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1	A	I’m presently a part-time college assistant professor
2	and consultant.
3	Q	Prior to your present employment what was your
4	business profession or occupation?
5	A	I served 27 years and 11 months as a federal criminal
6	investigator as a special agent.
7	Q	And who was that with?
8	A	The United States’ Naval Investigative Service.
9	Q	And can you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury
10	what the United States Naval Investigative Service is and
11	what it does?
12	A	The Naval Investigative Service or the N.I.S. is the
13	agency chartered by presidential edict and federal law as
14	the law enforcement arm of the Department of the Navy.
15		It is comprised or approximately 2,000
16	individuals, 1,200 of whom are civilian special agents,
17	sworn federal law enforcement officers who conduct major
18	criminal investigations involving members of the Navy, the
19	Marine Corps, civilian employees, and then they also are
20	engaged in national security investigations.
21	Q	Did you hold a particular position with the Naval
22	Investigative Service?
23	A	My title was special agent, and the last position
24	title that I occupied for four years prior to retirement
25	was special assistant to the directory for policy
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1	development in national and international liaison.
2	Q	Have you been involved in the investigation of
3	homicides?
4	A	Yes, sir, I have.
5	Q	Okay. Would you tell us and tell the ladies and
6	gentlemen of the jury about your experience with regard to
7	homicides, please?
8	A	I have served in several different capacities in the
9	investigation of crimes of violence including homicide
10	both as a practicing special agent being assigned
11	investigative tasks. I’ve also had specialized training
12	in forensic medicine and homicide investigation. Between
13	January 1978 and April 1980 I was the head of the crimes
14	of violence and homicide division of N.I.S. where I was in
15	charge of a unit of six people. We were responsible for
16	the coordination, the supervision and the quality control
17	of homicide investigations being conducted by the N.I.S.
18	on a worldwide basis.
19	Q	Have you served internationally on behalf of N.I.S.?
20	A	Yes, sir. I have served in several assignments
21	overseas throughout the Far East and the Mediterranean and
22	in Europe.
23	Q	Have you had occasion to work with other law
24	enforcement departments?
25	A	Yes. Both in the United States, counsel, and over a

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1	number of years I worked with local police officials,
2	state police officials, other federal agencies. And
3	overseas I worked with host country police officials in
4	Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines.
5	Q	Have you had occasion to teach or lecture in regard
6	to the area of crime scene investigation?
7	A	Yes, I have. Since 1980 I have served as a part-time
8	instructor or assistant professor of criminal justice. At
9	one time for Central Texas College when I was assigned in
10	Japan, and since 1987 as a guest instructor for the
11	Northern Virginia Community College in Annandale,
12	Virginia. And at the present time I’m an assistant
13	professor of criminal justice there serving in a part-time
14	capacity.
15	Q	Have you had occasion to speak to any law enforcement
16	groups?
17	A	Yes, counsel. On several occasions over the last 15
18	or 20 years I have participated in training of local
19	police officials. I have also participated in various
20	teaching seminars. For example, with the Buford County
21	Tri-County Law Enforcement Training Center at Buford,
22	South Carolina through the sheriff’s department. I
23	presented a symposium on the handling of homicide
24	investigations. And just last month I was a participate
25	in a seminar presented by the International Association of
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1	Chiefs of Police in Washington, DC for approximately 35
2	command officials from police departments from around the
3	United States and Canada. The theme of the seminar was
4	the management of major criminal investigations, and I was
5	asked to teach a portion on the responsibilities of those
6	initially responding to the scene of a homicide or a crime
7	of violence.
8	Q	Can you tell us your education background please.
9	A	I graduated from Michigan State University School of
10	Police Administration and Public Safety with the class of
11	1963, and then entered Federal Service where I underwent
12	the ordinary basic training as a special agent. I also
13	hold a Masters of Forensic Science from the George
14	Washington University in Washington, DC, the class of
15	1977. And from August of 1976 until August 1977 I served
16	in a fellowship of forensic medicine at the Armed Forces
17	Institute of Pathology, which is a one year training
18	program for federal investigators and attorneys in the
19	investigation of question death. It’s a concentrated
20	course involving study in forensic pathology, crime scene
21	handling, the management of investigations into violent
22	death.
23	Q	Have you published any articles or publications in
24	the area of crime scene investigations?
25	A	I published an article in the Journal of Forensic
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1	Science through the American Academy of Forensic Science,
2	involving a bullet wound studies and a particular type of
3	firearm ammunition. I have published a couple of other
4	articles on international policing and cooperation and
5	that kind of thing. That was in the Police Chief magazine
6	published by the International Association of Chiefs of
7	Police.
8	Q	Have you had occasion to do research in regard to the
9	area of crime scene investigation and law enforcement?
10	A	Oh, yes, sir. For the last 27 years keeping myself
11	abreast of state of the art techniques through various
12	journals like the Journal of Forensic Science, college
13	textbook material which I was responsible for as a
14	instructor or assistant professor.
15	Q	Have you ever had occasion to be involved with
16	INTERPOL?
17	A	As a matter of fact, I was the liaison officer from
18	the Naval Investigative Service to the international
19	criminal police organization INTERPOL from the fall of
20	1987 until my retirement recently.
21		MR. CARLSON:	Your Honor, we’d ask that Mr.
22	Gluba be qualified as an expert in the area of crime scene
23	investigation and crime scene procedures.
24		THE COURT:	So reflect.
25	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) How did you become involved in this

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1	particular matter, Mr. Gluba?
2	A	I happened to have been visiting in Tulsa, Oklahoma,
3	in February with a retired colleague who was aware of this
4	case and the involvement of attorney Carlson. I was asked
5	if I would be interested in participating, and I spoke
6	with attorney Carlson and later accepted his offer or his
7	request that I join in as a member of the defense team.
8	Q	Did I ask you to review certain information in regard
9	to this particular case?
10	A	Yes, counselor, you did. Various transcripts,
11	photographs, a video tape.
12	Q	Was that a video tape of the crime scene in this
13	particular matter?
14	A	Yes, it was. It was a video tape that was made in
15	the residence of the accused, Mr. Allen, at 1808 Jefferson
16	here in Bartlesville.
17	Q	And this is the video tape that was made by officers
18	there at the scene?
19	A	My understanding it was made by police officers of
20	the local police department.
21 	Q	Mr. Gluba, I’ll hand you what’s been marked
22	Defendant’s Exhibit 18, and would that be the video tape
23	which you reviewed?
24	A	Yes, sir, it is. I reviewed a video tape which had
25	enhancement to the speaking or the audio portion of that
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1	video.
2	Q	And as part of your opinion from this particular
3	matter, do you rely upon what you viewed in the video tape
4	and what you heard with regard to the video?
5	A	Yes, sir, in part I do.
6		MR. CARLSON:	Your Honor, we would move
7	admission of Defendant’s Exhibit 18, which we have
8	previously furnished to the state.
9		THE COURT:	Defendant 18 allowed.
10		MR. CARLSON:	Your Honor, at this time we
11	would ask that the jury be allowed to view the video tape
12	before we go into Mr. Gluba’s opinions.
13				THE COURT:	Go ahead.
14				(AT WHICH TIME DEFENDANT’S EXHIBIT 18 WAS
15				PLAYED FOR THE JURY)
16				THE COURT:	Go ahead.
17	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) Mr. Gluba, after having reviewed
18	certain information which was furnished to you in the way
19	of transcripts and the video and as far as photographs of
20	the crime scene, I’d ask you first to direct your
21	attention to the first arrival on the scene and tell us
22	your observations with regard to the responsibilities of
23	an officer as applied to this particular instance.
24	A	Well, counsel, the response of the first law
25	enforcement officer to the scene of a violent crime is a
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1	very complex emotional situation. That police officer,
2	when he or she has been dispatched by radio, if they’re in
3	their car, has several things to think about immediately.
4		First off, they don’t know what they are
5	going to for certain. They don’t know what’s going to
6	greet them, so to speak, when they arrive. That officer
7	not only has to manage going to the scene perhaps using
8	red light and siren on the car, which can be a dangerous
9	situation, but also has to keep in mind that there might
10	be an armed perpetrator or a suspect at the scene. That
11	that police officer might be walking into a very dangerous
12	situation upon arrival, so certainly the officer has to
13	think about his or her safety and the safety of others who
14	might be in the area, a member of the family, neighbors,
15	witnesses, other victims that are still there, whatever.
16		The officer also has to keep in mind that
17	when they arrive at the scene the victim may be badly
18	injured, and that the most important thing for them to do
19	at that time is to see that immediate emergency medical
20	assistance is rendered. So put yourself in the place of
21	the agent or the police officer arriving at a house like
22	on Jefferson not knowing exactly what they’re walking
23	into, being concerned about their own safety, being
24	concerned that they may find a very badly injured victim
25	that they’re going to have to administer aid to.
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1		So it’s a very complex and emotional
2	situation, and certainly the paramount thing for the
3	police officer to keep in mind is if that victim is alive.
4	That’s the most important thing is to save that human
5	life.
6		But then let’s also consider that the
7	police officer has other responsibilities. The moment
8	that they are dispatched to go to that scene of crime,
9	they become an intrical part of the investigation, of the
10	investigative team. Yes, there will be other people come
11	to the crime scene. There will be detectives,
12	investigators, crime scene technicians, command personnel,
13	perhaps chief of police or sheriff or agent in charge or
14	whoever. But that police officer and that officer’s
15	observations, those things that they take in on the way to
16	the scene even.
17		That officer has to be cognizant that he or
18	she has to remember what time they were dispatched and
19	when they arrived. What they saw as they were proceeding
20	to the scene. Maybe they see a car leave the vicinity of
21	the house or the neighborhood or coming down the street.
22	Maybe they see someone on foot who could be a suspect or a
23	potential witness or even maybe could be the victim who’s
24	badly injured wondering about.
25		So that police officer has many things to

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1	keep in mind. It’s not an easy job. It’s a very
2	difficult task. That officer has to take in those things
3	that he or she sees.
4		And on arrival at the scene there are some
5	critical things that they should do. Keep in mind this is
6	a very busy situation in what we might call a mad 30
7	seconds. You have to take note of those conditions that
8	are liable to change, people moving about, weather
9	conditions, lighting, smells and odors that might tell
10	them something. For example, if it’s an unknown trouble
11	call, is there gas in the house. Has someone turned on a
12	gas stove or something like that. Perhaps a suicide. Are
13	there other odors lingering in the air like the residue of
14	a gun shot, because there is a -- if any of you have
15	engaged in the firing of firearms, there’s a unique smell
16	or odor in the air.
17		So this police officer just has to take in
18	so many things, and yet be concerned about their own
19	safety and be concerned about the welfare of the victim.
20	Well, human nature being what it is, we can’t remember all
21	these things and we can’t trust memory. So somewhere in
22	this course of action it’s most important for that police
23	officer to not only observe, start taking in and trying to
24	remember, but start taking a few cursory notes, if you
25	will. It might be in a pocket notebook, might be on a

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1	clipboard next to them on the seat of the car, might be on
2	a piece of folded paper. I always used long paper with
3	what we called the investigator’s fold. You fold paper in
4	three and you have a great deal of writing space, and I
5	would jot just little cursory things down as I walked into
6	a death scene. So that police officer has so many things
7	to do.
8		They also have to keep in mind that —— as I
9	was reminded on many occasions -- that perhaps one of the
10	most crucial elements of a homicide investigation is the
11	scene where the offense or the crime took place, and you
12	have to kind of visualize, and bear with me for a minute,
13	that this is a complex situation. You may have an injured
14	person or a dead body. You may have all kinds of things
15	on the floor or in he area that could be very crucial
16	items of evidence. And that officer, while he or she is
17	rushing to the victim, looking at things, maybe getting a
18	witness out of the way or a family member, they have to
19	try to be as conscious as they can not to move or disturb
20	or adulterate or destroy an item of evidence.
21		For example, a spent cartridge case on the
22	floor or a knife laying on the floor, or there might be
23	what one would call footwear impressions on the floor
24	where you can look and see that someone has walked in an
25	area. There might be water that -- then they left a mark
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1	or there could be blood that left a mark. There could be
2	dirt or whatever. It’s a very complex situation and
3	there’s a great deal of responsibility for that police
4	officer. And I think that you have to appreciate that
5	this is an emotion charged situation and a police officer
6	only has not minutes but sometimes seconds to get in there
7	and maybe put the tourniquet on to do whatever. Call for
8	the ambulance, the emergency medical people or however it
9	it's done in the jurisdiction. Fire department, emergency
10	services. Where I live we have an emergency services.
11	It’s an ambulance service out of our fire department.
12	This is a very complex situation.
13		I think we have to appreciate the fact that
14	while one can sit back and, as an instructor as I was at
15	the N.I.S. academy teaching crime scene and homicide to
16	basic agents and to advanced agents, that it’s easy to say
17	well, the textbook tells us that we do one, two, three,
18	four, but in that emotionally charged response to that
19	murder scene, that death scene, there are other things
20	that happen. Policemen are only human. They may walk on
21	something, they may move something.
22		I can give you a personal confession. I
23	once dropped a cup of coffee at a death scene that
24	adulterated the scene. I can tell that as a very young
25	agent I was very concerned and very upset because I had a

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1	boss that had several counseling sessions. The point I’m
2	making is that policemen are human. The emergency medical
3	people who respond are human. Each of them has their
4	thing to do. So this is a very complex and emotionally
5	charged situation.
6	Q	How do we determine, based upon situations like this
7	and as you reviewed the transcripts and as you review --
8	you look at the transcripts in this particular matter, as
9	to who should take control of the crime scene?
10	A	Generally it’s the policy in most agencies that the
11	senior person on the scene, if you have the luxury of more
12	than one police officer responding to that death scene or
13	more than one N.I.S. agent or whatever. The senior person
14	on the scene should take charge, and until relieved by a
15	senior command person, be it the chief of detectives or
16	the area sergeant or the chief of police, the sheriff, the
17	agent in charge or whoever, that senior police officer
18	should take charge and act as a supervisor, if you will,
19	to do those things that he or she might be able to step
20	back, take a breath, collect their thoughts and say now,
21	wait a minute. Officer so and so is looking at the victim
22	to see if he can render aid or she can render aid. What
23	should I do. Well, I better look around. What do we have
24	here --
25			MR. CORGAN: Excuse me, Your Honor. I’m

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1	going to object at this time and ask the witness be
2	instructed to respond to the question. I think he’s going
3	far beyond the question.
4				THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead.
5	A	So that senior person should step back, take the
6	breath, look at that scene. At that point it’s important
7	for that person to take a careful look and see what items
8	of potential evidence might be there. A knife, blood
9	smears on the floor or whatever.
10	If we know that emergency medical people
11	are coming, it might be good for that person to take a
12	very quick look and in his mind say, well, I don’t see
13	anything over here. It might be best that when the
14	ambulance crew arrives to say gentlemen or ladies and
15	gentlemen, how about coming in this door here and walk
16	over there because please don’t walk in this over here.
17	Don’t step on this knife or don’t walk in this blood or
18	don’t step on this clothing or whatever.
19		Now, again, let me just say, emotionally
20	charged situation, a lot of things going on, and it is
21	easy for someone to step on something or to move something
22	or to adulterate a crime scene. But an attempt at least
23	has to be made.
24	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) From your review with regard to
25	this particular situation at Jefferson Road, was there a

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1	particular officer which, in your opinion, would have been
2	the logical choice to take control of this crime scene?
3	A	Well, very early in the response there was a
4	lieutenant by the name of Davis who arrived moments after
5	the first officer on the scene, Patrolman Grayson I
6	believe his name is.
7		The lieutenant should have taken charge.
8	Perhaps directed the activities of the young officer to do
9	certain things. Whatever the logic would dictate at that
10	time. And that he should have just taken charge of that
11	scene, and as best he could to make certain that when the
12	ambulance crew or whoever was arriving would come into the
13	scene and do the least damage possible to what could be
14	items of evidence.
15		Out there at Jefferson there are a number
16	of doors to the house and avenues that someone could have
17	come in, through the garage, the utility room, the kitchen
18	into the dining room portion. Adjacent to that dining
19	room area is a door that would lead into living room and
20	then to the front door, the Jefferson Street entrance.
21		It’s possible that the lieutenant could
22	have directed Officer Grayson to ensure that no one came
23	in through the kitchen portion and maybe request that they
24	come through the front door, and perhaps that would have
25	been a way of doing it. That’s a difficult call, but at

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1	least an attempt should be made.
2	Q	Mr. Gluba, I have a floor plan. Could you basically
3	tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury of which you
4	speak?
5	A	The garage here, utility room and kitchen, with the
6	victim -- can you all see? With the victim lying here in
7	this dining room area adjacent to this bifold door going
8	into the family room. Pocket door here from the dining
9	area to the formal living room, and a door here going into
10	the entrance hall.
11		Well, there was blood on the floor here in
12	this area adjacent to where the victim Sandra Allen was
13	lying. There were also footwear impressions made in the
14	bed by someone walking about, I believe Mr. Steve Allen
15	the accused.
16		It’s important to protect this area around
17	the victim as best you can, and to see that folks don’t
18	walk over these footwear impressions made in blood on the
19	floor. It could be important in tracking the movement of
20	a logical suspect. So perhaps what should have been done
21	was Officer Grayson instructed maybe even to remove Mr.
22	Allen from the immediate scene. As the ambulance or the
23	fire department are arriving, to have the officer instruct
24	those emergency responders not to come in there through
25	the garage, utility room and kitchen, but to come right

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1	here through the front door hallway area. Perhaps leave
2	the gurney or stretcher here and come right through these
3	two doors immediately adjacent to where the victim was
4	laying and do that important thing with the lifesaving.
5	Q	With regard to the crime scene in this particular
6	case, what, if any, aid would that have lent to this
7	particular situation?
8	A	Perhaps it would have protected those footwear
9	impressions that had already been made on the tile floor
10	in the kitchen and the dining room, those footwear
11	impressions in blood. It would have protected it for
12	further examination by the investigators, the crime scene
13	investigators, perhaps to track movement of whoever was at
14	the scene, whether it was Mr. Allen or whomever. That
15	would have been really the crux of that. And any other
16	items of evidence which possibly could have been on the
17	floor near Mrs. Allen.
18	Q	With regard to once Mrs. Allen has been removed and
19	the emergency people have gone, can you give us how the
20	crime scene should be handled at that particular point in
21	time?
22	A	Well, once the investigating officers are past this
23	very important phase of the victim being there and then
24	being removed to hospital for care, that is the point
25	where very strict controls should be placed at that crime

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1	scene. In effect it should be sealed. Access must be
2	very strictly controlled because what we are doing at that
3	point is we are protecting the integrity of the death
4	scene or the crime scene for items of evidence, because --
5	please bear with me -- that as human beings come and go in
6	an area they leave all kinds of things, trace evidence, if
7	you will. They take away with them all kinds of things,
8	trace evidence. They leave fingerprints, palm prints,
9	footprints, hair, hairs and fibers of f their clothes,
10	footwear impressions, things that they brought in from the
11	outside, dirt, rocks, soil, grease, whatever. So it’s
12	very important that we establish -- that the investigators
13	establish control of the scene. And there are several
14	ways to do that.
15		The ranking officer at the scene should
16	take charge. A log, a crime scene log, if you will,
17	should be immediately established. And that can been done
18	on a lined piece of paper. Date, time, location and who’s
19	present.
20		Now, this is also the time, if I might
21	interrupt here just a second and then pursue that in a
22	moment. This is the time where those first responders to
23	the scene, those first police officials that come to the
24	scene like Officer Grayson and like Lieutenant Davis, to
25	get out the notebook or the ruled pad and to jot down

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1	observations and those things that they observed early in
2	their response. They become an intrical part of the
3	investigative team. Their observations and their notes,
4	their written notes, and the reports that they will write
5	eventually form the foundation of the beginning of that
6	investigation. And that’s the plant form for not only the
7	investigation, but for the whole criminal justice process
8	that eventually leads to either prosecution or not.
9		So it’s very critical that the crime scene
10	be protected. And that log that I mentioned, what it does
11	is whenever a police official, whether it is a patrolman,
12	the investigator or detective, supervisors, the chief of
13	police or the sheriff or the agent in charge, when they
14	come to that scene the time they arrive should be logged,
15	what they do should be logged. Are they the photographer,
16	are they taking measurements of the scene, are the
17	gathering evidence, are they providing supervision. And
18	that becomes a record to identify everyone who’s been
19	there.
20		Now, this could be important later on down
21	the road. Let’s just assume that we find -- that the
22	police officials find latent fingerprints or palm prints
23	at the scene of that crime. One of the things that
24	they’re going to have to do is identify who those
25	fingerprints belong to. Now, they might be family

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1	members, persons living in the house. Might be the
2	victim. Very well could be a logical suspect, the person
3	responsible for the crime. Also very logical that it
4	would be policemen, police officers who came to the scene
5	to conduct the investigation. It’s important to know who
6	was in that crime scene. It’s important to know when they
7	were there. It might alleviate any false leads.
8		If a police official or police officer
9	smoked at the scene and left a cigarette or a cigar butt
10	behind, that might just preclude a lot of time being
11	spent, well, did that belong to the offender, the suspect.
12	So there’s very strict controls have to be made, because
13	there’s a rule of thumb in criminal investigation
14	especially in homicide investigation, that in the
15	processing of the crime scene that nothing is moved or
16	handled or otherwise altered until it is photographed and
17	placed and measured so that it can be located on a diagram
18	that should be prepared later in the investigation.
19		By measured I mean from fixed points of
20	reference. If in this courtroom we were doing that we
21	would perhaps measure from a doorjamb or a corner so that
22	we could pinpoint where a particular item was found and
23	that goes into the notes written by the officers
24	investigating the scene and is also placed in a diagram or
25	sketch of the crime scene and eventually incorporated into

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1	the report.
2		So the protection to make certain that
3	nothing is moved or altered or otherwise adulterated until
4	it’s photographed and measured is very, very important.
5	And, again, we’re talking a complex situation and it’s
6	very easy for someone to step into an area or kick an item
7	of evidence and move it.
8		So it’s important that there is management
9	at the crime scene; that there are controls at the crime
10	scene; that access is actually restricted. If a police
11	officer doesn’t have a function at the scene then he or
12	she should not be there. And this is not a situation
13	where spectators should come in and watch to see what’s
14	going on. The best way to do it is to assign tasks of
15	those police officers at the scene, those investigators.
16	There should be an overall supervisor. Now, maybe at this
17	point the first senior person who has come to the scene
18	will be relieved of that duty. Maybe that will be the
19	detective supervisor that comes and becomes the boss and
20	runs that crime scene. But then assignments of officers
21	to do specific tasks. One to do the photography, perhaps
22	one to take the measurements and to start doing a rough
23	crime scene diagram or sketch at the scene, and then
24	perhaps two other officers who, in a controlled methodical
25	detailed systematic way, starts to examine the scene for

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1	items of evidence.
2		And it’s very difficult to say what an item
3	of evidence can be. It can be dirt on the floor, it can
4	be hair, it can be fibers, it can be something as obvious
5	as a gun or a knife or baseball bat used in an assault or
6	whatever, but there has to be a systematized methodical
7	and detailed approach to the way that the crime scene is
8	done, and there are a couple ways that are accepted in
9	this day and age to do it.
10		One is to start at the immediate area where
11	the victim lay, and then to move -- to examine that area
12	and then to move away from that scene. Where there is a
13	crime like this, a killing in a house in a residence, the
14	crime scene is not just the room in which the killing
15	occurred. You really have to extent way beyond that,
16	because you have to visualize that perhaps that person
17	responsible, that assailant, came to that house and then
18	left. So the entire premise, the property, the yard,
19	certainly should be protected for integrity of the scene
20	and then eventually examined. The entire house should be
21	examined in a very methodical manner.
22		In this instance at 1808 certainly the
23	dining room and the kitchen area where obviously there
24	were things that went on. But beyond that into the family
25	room, the utility room, the garage. Really what I’m

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1	trying to say is attic to basement, wall to wall, the
2	entire house. The bedrooms, the bathroom, the entire
3	interior, but that’s only part of it.
4	Q	With regard to the issue of control at 1808
5	Jefferson, can you address your review of the transcripts
6	and the information that you’ve been furnished? Can you
7	address that particular issue with this crime scene?
8	A	One thing that struck me from viewing the video on
9	quite a few occasions and listening to the enhanced audio
10	portion and then reviewing a transcript that I was
11	provided of the audio -- and I compared the transcript
12	with what I was able to hear on that enhanced audio or
13	talking portion of the video -- was that there was not
14	firm management or supervision of the scene at the time
15	the video was made. In fact, I heard on the audio portion -
16			MR. CORGAN: Again, Your Honor, we would
17	object to the hearsay.
18			THE COURT: You may answer.
19	A	I heard a comment by someone on the scene, a police
20	officer, police official, whatever, questioning someone
21	else about is this your scene, and then -- and I can’t
22	quote, but words to the affect, there are a lot of people
23	in here milling around or moving around; and that struck
24	me in watching that video that there were a number of
25	police officers at that crime scene. At least during the

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1	portion of the video there did not appear to be a
2	systematic approach to the examination. There was a great
3	deal of movement and speculation as to what had happened
4	to Mrs. Allen.
5	Q	Why is that a problem?
6	A	It’s a problem because human nature as it is it’s
7	easy to step on something, to move something, to alter the
8	crime scene. And this is the portion of the investigation
9	where the investigators, the police, are firmly in control
10	of that crime scene. They’re firmly in control to the
11	point that they can decide who is in the room and who
12	moves about, who makes the observations, who picks up
13	items of evidence; and it’s important that that’s done
14	very methodically to ensure the integrity of the scene
15	that nothing is moved or stepped on or adulterated or
16	otherwise altered.
17	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) If you’re presented with a crime
18	scene log, what does that tell you?
19	A	It tells you who is there and what they have done.
20	It will also tell you who should have recorded their
21	observations in their notebook or in their notes or
22	clipboard or whatever and who should have written a
23	report. Whether the report stands on its own or they
24	prepare paragraphs for a report that’s eventually
25	incorporated into what we could call the master reportive

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1	investigation, which should start at the very beginning
2	with the receipt of the complaint, the initial response
3	and the processing of the death scene in detail.
4		One way that it can be done is a
5	chronological, starting at the very beginning and moving
6	through all the investigative steps with details of the
7	observations and the actions of all those who were at the
8	crime scene who were there. Whether they were high
9	ranking officials doing something or the lowest in the
10	rank there, the patrol officer or whoever.
11	Q	As you viewed the video and you listened to the
12	audio, did you have a chance to make a determination, from
13	your experience and your education, as to where this
14	investigation focused early on?
15	A	In viewing the video and reviewing the transcript,
16	putting that all together, I was struck with the fact that
17	early on in the investigation that the investigation was
18	starting to focus on the accused, Steve Allen, as a
19	logical or possible suspect; and this was from a few
20	things that I heard on that video and then read in the
21	transcript that I was provided of the audio portion of the
22	video.
23	Q	What should be done, even assuming for purpose of
24	this discussion, that you have directed your attention to
25	that -- to a particular suspect?

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1	A	It may be proper and logical to focus on a suspect
2	early one, but still the investigation has to be conducted
3	in a very detailed and methodical and thorough fashion to
4	eliminate, if you will, any other possible suspect.
5		So that means that even though early on you
6	may have a logical reason for assuming that you already
7	have a good possible suspect, you don’t close down the
8	investigation, so to speak, and just focus on one person
9	or one set of circumstances or one set of facts.
10		But really it’s incumbent on the police
11	officers involved, the agents involved, whomever, to do
12	that investigation detailed and thorough and eliminate
13	this possibility and to exclude any other suspect.
14	Q	With regard to the gathering of evidence and
15	specifically you’ve mentioned trace evidence, would you
16	tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what, in your
17	opinion, based upon your education, experience and
18	training, should have been done compared to what was done
19	in this particular case?
20	A	This scene is indicative of one with a great deal of
21	movement and violence. There was a lot of blood. There
22	obviously was a great period there of a very violent
23	encounter between Sandra Allen and whoever killed her.
24		In a situation like that, there’s a great
25	deal of exchange, if you will, of trace evidence, perhaps

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1	blood on the attacker, and especially in cases involving
2	women, because women’s hair is generally longer than most
3	men. An abundance of hair will be exchanged. If they
4	came in bodily contact, transfer of hairs and fibers off
5	the clothing of the victim and the killer. If they
6	grappled, if there was a struggle where they actually had
7	hands on one another, it’s very possible that there would
8	be an exchange between the two. If there was scratching
9	and a braiding away of the surface skin there could be
10	skin or tissue under the fingernails of both parties or
11	one of the parties.
12		There’s always something left behind, and
13	it’s fair to say something always taken away, trace
14	evidence that I’ve already mentioned. But also things
15	brought into the scene that may have come from the yard.
16	Leaves on the shoes of the assailant or dirt or rocks or
17	gravel. In a case like this where there was a great deal
18	of blood and violence, looking at that scene to see where
19	the assailant may have left. There should have been a
20	very thorough examination of the entire house for the
21	exit, and then where did the assailant go?
22	Q	Was that done?
23	A	I don’t believe so. Not in exact detail. In this
24	instance Mr. Allen had indicated to 911 and to the police
25	officers who responded that when he came to his residence

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1	in his automobile that he had seen someone at the side of
2	the house. His lights had kind of spanned across that
3	scene, and that whoever that was had not run past him out
4	towards Lincoln. It would appear that maybe that person,
5	whoever it was, turned and ran or moved the opposite
6	direction. Well, that’s a corner lot. 1808 Jefferson
7	sits on a corner. Behind the house or beyond the house is
8	a privacy fence, a board privacy fence that’s six or seven
9	feet high, and on the side of the yard is a -- what I
10	would can a chain link fence, but it’s maybe four feet.
11	Well, that means that whoever was there, if that person
12	was the assailant, they could have gone around the house
13	and then just moved out to Jefferson or they could have
14	gone to the fence, either the one behind the house or
15	beside the house, and gone over that fence.
16		That means that in the processing of this
17	crime scene, as I started to mention a few moments ago, it
18	must extend beyond the room where the assault took place
19	in the interior of the house, but the entire yard and then
20	perhaps even beyond.
21		But let’s concentrate on the yard for a
22	minute. The entire property should be roped of f or taped
23	off, as you see on television or whatever, with the yellow
24	tape or the red tape saying police line, do not cross, to
25	control entrance into the yard. And just as should be

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1	done in the house, that yard then should become part of
2	the crime scene.
3		A suggested way of doing it would be to
4	start at a reference point on the outside of the house.
5	Right -- the very wall, and for the officers assigned to
6	do that part of the crime scene then in a spiral fashion
7	to go around the house and then start moving their area of
8	search out in a spiral, if you will.
9		Or another way of doing it is to take the
10	yard and kind of divide it mentally into grids, but the
11	yard must be gone through like a comb through hair,
12	looking for items of evidence that may have been dropped
13	by the suspect either on the way into the house or on the
14	way out. And what are you looking for? You’re looking
15	for such things as footwear impressions in dirt. You’re
16	looking for a weapon that may have been dropped either
17	intentionally or accidentally by an assailant who runs
18	from the scene. It could be a piece of lead pipe or a gun
19	or a knife or whatever.
20		In this instance the entire yard should
21	have been gone over looking for what could have been left
22	behind to include the fence lines. That six or seven foot
23	privacy fence should have been examined its entire length
24	and its entire height.
25		Now, this could have been done during the

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1	nighttime hours with policemen using a good flashlight,
2	but then with the follow back at the first light to make
3	sure that something hasn’t been missed in the dark. So
4	we’re not talking about one time through; we’re talking
5	about maybe two, three or four, but certainly those fence
6	lines should be gone over. The privacy fence from one end
7	to the other from the top to the bottom looking for such
8	things as maybe blood left by the assailant if he had
9	blood on his hands, or hairs and fibers or even maybe
10	where he would have caught clothing and there’s a tear of
11	material left behind or a button, or just indications that
12	maybe someone scaled the fence with a smudge or a foot
13	mark left where if they’re athletic enough to hit the wall
14	with a foot and go on over.
15		Now, the fence, the shorter fence that I
16	would call a four foot chain link fence, examine that in
17	minute detail in the same manner, entire length and entire
18	height, looking for blood stains, hairs and fibers or
19	whatever, and also along the fence line again as we have
20	near the house and in other areas where there’s soft dirt,
21	looking for footwear impressions or at least disturbance
22	in the earth which may indicate that someone had gone over
23	that fence. In this instance, I believe it was Lieutenant
24	Davis, during the night did go out and make an examination
25	at the fence at least near the area of the corner where

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1	the wooden privacy fence comes together with the chain
2	link fence, and he did discover some leaves on Iris plants
3	which had either been bent over or broken off. And that
4	was on both sides of that chain link fence. It was on the
5	Allen property and on the other side in the neighbor’s
6	yard.
7		It may be even suggested —— in fact in many
8	instances in a case like this then the crime scene extends
9	beyond the yard and the property of that house to include
10	adjacent yards in the neighborhood. And even the
11	surrounding area for one, two or three blocks. And this
12	should include a canvass of the neighbors where police
13	officers go and knock on doors and talk to neighbors about
14	what they may have seen or heard. This would include an
15	examination as they do that along the street, gutters,
16	storm drains, trash receptacles, garbage cans, dumpsters
17	or whatever, looking for what may have been dumped or
18	abandoned by a suspect, by whoever did that violence, a
19	weapon. In this instance, the weapon should be bloody,
20	some sort of a heavy blunt object.
21		So, it’s not unreasonable for the police
22	officers, as they do this investigation, to extend maybe
23	two blocks either way to canvass the neighborhood and to
24	look for a weapon or other items of evidence. Bloody
25	clothing. Maybe the assailant had on a jacket or a vest

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1	or something that he or she may have taken off, wadded up
2	and thrown into a storm drain or someone’s garbage can.
3		And this shouldn’t be done just once, but a
4	canvass in the neighborhood like that should be done, of
5	course, immediately as soon as the police have the
6	necessary people on the scene to do this. But then again
7	the next day, and certainly at about the time that that
8	crime could have occurred.
9		And here the best that I can determine we
10	have a window, so to speak, from around 9:20 p.m. to about
11	9:30	-- it seems like a window when this attack could have
12	occurred. So there should have been a canvass the next
13	night at about that time, and maybe four, five, six,
14	seven, eight nights following. Certainly a week later.
15	And what you’re looking for is to jog the memory of a
16	neighbor who may have forgotten something, or by taking a
17	look through that neighborhood as to who may walk their
18	dog at that time, who is a nocturnal jogger or walker who
19	likes to go out when it’s dark and walk for exercise or
20	run, or who might come through that neighborhood who
21	doesn’t live there but may live some distance beyond, but
22	perhaps is someone who’s taking a class at night at the
23	college nearby or a lady who attends a bible class or a
24	social club of some kind who may come through that
25	neighborhood.

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	1	So it’s not even unreasonable that perhaps
	2	the police would establish a roadblock, if you will, to
	3	where they may ask motorists at about that time the next
	4	night or a few nights later were you here on the night of
	5	the 11th of June, did you see anything, did you hear
	6	anything, did you see	anything suspicious or whatever. 
	7		So what we’re talking 	about is we’re
	8	talking about a pretty thorough and very time consuming
	9	investigation. It requires a lot of detail and a lot of
	10	attention.
	11		(FOR FURTHER TRANSCRIPTION OF PROCEEDINGS, 
	12		REFER TO VOLUME III OF JURY TRIAL
	13		PROCEEDINGS.)
	14
	15
	16
	17
	18
	19
	20
	21
	22
	23
	24
	25
	
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	1	(FOR PREVIOUS TRANSCRIPTION, SEE VOLUME II
	2	OF JURY TRIAL PROCEEDINGS. THE FOLLOWING
	3	PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD ON JULY 30, 1991.)
	4
	----------------------------------------------------------------------

	5	    		
  BLAIR GLUBA
	6	having been previously duly sworn to tell the truth, the
	7	whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified as
	8	follows:
	9		 
 DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUED
	10	BY MR. CARLSON:
	11	Q	Let me hand you, Mr. Gluba, what’s been marked as
	12	Defendant’s Exhibit No. 2. And it appears -- what does
	13	that appear to be to you?
	14	A	This appears to be the residence at 1808 Jefferson,
	15	and we’re looking at a view from Lincoln and we’re looking
	16	at what’s the garage area of the house with the patio
	17	around to the right side to -- as I view the picture this
	18	way.
	19		The other thing that strikes me, as I
	20	mentioned a little while ago, is this entire yard, all of
	21	the Allen property, should have been considered the crime
	22	scene. And in this picture --
	23	Q	Can you show the ladies and gentlemen of the jury
	24	what you mean?
	25	A	I’m sorry. In this picture you’ll notice the
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	1	standard police tape, if you will, that says police line,
	2	do not cross, or whatever. And it’s here along -- this is
	3	the driveway would be right here with the garage over
	4	here. But I noticed that the tape only goes out so far in
	5	the yard and then is wrapped around a tree and then on to
	6	trees to the back of the house. It does not encompass the
	7	entire yard of the Allen property, which it really should
	8	have.
	9		I think what this would do is that this
	10	would then set a -- it would just set the preconceived
	11	notion that that is the scene to be examined and that
	12	nothing beyond would be examined because it’s not
	13	protected. And the tape should have gone basically around
	14	the curb area, if you will, or whatever, for the whole
	15	yard.
	16	Q	With regard to the particular leaves which you
	17	mentioned on both sides of the fence, what, if anything,
	18	does that indicate to you?
	19	A	It would indicate movement by someone or something in
	20	that area; that someone could have gone over that fence at
	21	that point. And that’s about where the four foot chain
	22	link fence meets the six or seven foot privacy fence.
	23		I think it’s logical to assume that unless
	24	one is very athletic you look for the least resistance,
	25	and that’s the point where someone went over that fence at


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	1	about the time, I would think, of the day in question that
	2	we’re concerned about here.
	3	Q	If there were an 11 year old dog in the -- I’ll say
	4	catty-cornered yard where that fence meets, what, if
	5	anything, would that indicate to you with regard to
	6	someone possibly gone over that fence?
	7			MR. CORGAN:	Excuse me, Judge. I think
	8	we’re getting beyond the witness’s area of expertise now
	9	unless he has crime scene dog training as well.
	10			THE COURT:	Sustained.
	11	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) What should be done in regard to
	12	those particular plants or leaves?
	13	A	At the time they were first observed by the
	14	lieutenant would be during the dark hours. They should
	15	have been photographed in place using a flash attachment
	16	on a camera, and then it’s a judgment call as to whether
	17	they be collected at that time as an item of evidence and
	18	protected or that maybe this area could have been covered
	19	with a piece of plastic, if you will, or a tarp or
	20	whatever; and that then during the daylight hours that
	21	they be gathered as items of evidence. But certainly
	22	first photographed and noted on the sketch of the crime
	23	scene, which should include the property, and then
	24	collected.
	25		From there it’s reasonable to think that


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	1	someone could have looked at that like a botanist or a
	2	horticulturist or maybe even just a local florist who’s
	3	got a lot of experience in the handling of plants who
	4	could have looked and perhaps rendered an opinion as to
	5	how long they had been snapped off and if they were days
	6	old or hours old, that night or whatever. Because if you
	7	envision -- if you do gardening like my wife does, if you
	8	break a leaf off that edge is kind of sharp for a while
	9	and it bleeds a little bit with whatever that viscous
	10	material is in plants. I’m not much of a green thumb. I
	11	don’t like gardens. But someone could have looked at it
	12	and maybe -- it could be a long shot -- but render an
	13	opinion as to how long they could have been there.
	14	Q	Would you do that if you had directed your attention
	15	to somebody else at that point?
	16	A	Yes, sir. Because we’re still working on the premise
	17	that the investigation has to be as detailed and as
	18	thorough and as complete as it can be to eliminate -- if
	19	we’re focusing on a possible suspect, we still have to --
	20	the officers involved and in charge of that case still
	21	have to eliminate the possibility that someone else
	22	committed that crime.
	23	Q	Let me take you back just a moment to inside the
	24	house. There’s been evidence in his particular case in
	25	the way of crime scene photos with regard to some books.


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	1	And you’ve been to the scene, have you not?
	2	A	Yes, I have.
	3	Q	Okay.  And you’re aware that we had left the scene as
	4	we found it back when we first arrived at the house, is
	5	that correct?
	6	A	Yes, sir. That’s what I was told.
	7	Q	And if you go out there today the scene would be
	8	exactly like we found it, correct?
	9	A	Yes, sir. I was there in February and I was again
	10	there yesterday, and it was my memory it was very much --
	11	it was the same.
	12	Q	Okay. With regard to the books that we have
	13	reference to, can I orient you as to the books that are
	14	fallen or down and that are just inside what we call the
	15	family room?
	16	A	Yes.	Just inside the door from the dining area into
	17	that family room. Just to the left as one goes through
	18	that door.
	19	Q	Okay. The first day you were there what did you do?
	20	A	I made visual observations of the whole scene. I
	21	spent time in each of the rooms, and in the family room I
	22	did note that a number of books had been pulled or pushed
	23	or whatever you want to call it, off one of the
	24	bookshelves and that they were laying on the floor in
	25	front of that bookcase.


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	1	Q	Did you form any kind of an opinion as to how that
	2	could have happened based upon the whole crime scene as
	3	you viewed the situation?
	4	A	It appeared that there had been a struggle or
	5	altercation right there immediately in the area of that
	6	bookcase. It would indicate movement, movement of one or
	7	more persons. Maybe a struggle.
	8	Q	If I used the term void with regard to those books,
	9	can you address that issue?
	10	A	Well, there appears to be a void, if you will, or a
	11	space in the manner in which the books now lie or remain.
	12	If a pillar or a post were there and someone were pulling
	13	books off, that would explain a void.
	14		But I think in this instance what we have
	15	to realize is that this was a very mad matter of seconds
	16	or minute with a great deal of violence and movement. At
	17	least two people, the victim and the assailant. There
	18	would have been a lot of movement.
	19		It’s my opinion that Sandra Allen was
	20	moving, she was trying to get away from whoever was
	21	striking her. There was a lot of violence there. It
	22	would appear that maybe she was moving to the kitchen, the
	23	dining area in the kitchen, because that’s where the
	24	telephone is. If you move from that bookcase in the
	25	family room through the door that leads into the dining

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	1	area and where she was eventually found, a few steps away
	2	to ones left is the telephone on the wall. I would say
	3	that what we have is a great deal of movement and a lot of
	4	violence.
	5	Q	If you have movement -- Strike that. Let me rephrase
	6	it. Do you put any significance in the fact that if
	7	there’s a void there that someone may have intentionally
	8	pulled the books off?
	9	A	Not necessarily.
	10	Q	And why?
	11	A	Well, with that kind of movement, especially if
	12	there’s a struggle with two people moving around, maybe an
	13	arm up -- maybe the victim was -- grabbed to get her
	14	balance to try to get through that door. It’s logical to
	15	assume that those books could have come down off that
	16	shelf in all of this fury and all of this movement and two
	17	bodies moving around. It doesn’t strike me as someone who
	18	is methodical, taking a book out and throwing it on the
	19	floor or even intentionally taking two or three and
	20	pulling them down.
	21	Q	Have you seen that type of situation in crime scenes
	22	before?
	23	A	Yes, I have. Where there has been a great deal of
	24	violence and struggle with the victim trying to run away
	25	from an assailant.

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	1	Q	Approximately how many homicides have you been
	2	involved in the investigation of either as an agent or as
	3	the supervisor?
	4	A	Between four and five hundred as a head of the
	5	homicide division. I’ve personally handled between 50 or
	6	75 where I was on scene with the victim and suspects and
	7	personally handling crime scenes. But between four and
	8	five hundred as the one responsible for coordination and
	9	supervision of the N.I.S. Crimes of Violence and Homicide
	10	Division.
	11	Q	You mentioned a telephone in this particular
	12	instance, Mr. Gluba. Could you tell me, based upon the
	13	information that we have in this particular case, how the
	14	phone should have been treated with regard to this crime
	15	scene?
	16	A	One of my early observations in going to the scene
	17	was the fact that there are visible prints on the phone,
	18	if you will. If you can envision blood on your hand and
	19	then reaching for a telephone.
	20		The other thing that struck me was that the
	21	phone was still there on the wall and that it did not
	22	appear to have been dusted with what we call latent
	23	fingerprint powder. The telephone is a light color. It’s
	24	kind of a beige or a cream. That means when you dust
	25	looking for latent fingerprints that you would use a dark

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	1	powder.
	2		In this case, since we have a visible
	3	smudging or printing on the phone -- I mean, it’s there.
	4	You can just look and see it. It’s in blood. The phone
	5	should have been removed, made an item of evidence, taken
	6	to the crime lab and then examined first to see if there
	7	is sufficient definition in those prints, just like a
	8	fingerprint that has been raised with powder, for
	9	identification purposes.
	10		Once that is determined and all those
	11	smudges, prints and whatever, are photographed, then
	12	process it using fingerprint powder to see if there are
	13	latent or invisible prints that will become visible when
	14	dusted with the metallic fingerprint powder.
	15	Q	We know, Mr. Gluba, that Steve Allen made a phone
	16	call.
	17	A	Yes, we do.
	18	Q	From that phone. What’s the importance -- what
	19	significance does it have to print it once we know -- when
	20	we know he called on it?
	21	A	Even though Steve Allen used that telephone to call
	22	911 for the police and emergency services, yes, his prints
	23	should be on there and probably Sandra’s prints and maybe
	24	even the children in that house, but I think we still have
	25	to ask ourselves did someone else use that telephone. In

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	1	fact, did another possible suspect use that telephone.
	2		In reviewing the case materials made
	3	available to me, there’s indications or a report that Mrs.
	4	Allen received a telephone call at her place of employment
	5	at Dillards Department Store. I think one has to ask,
	6	could the assailant have been in the house at that time
	7	and did the assailant or a logical suspect, the person who
	8	maybe killed Mrs. Allen, did he or she use that telephone
	9	to make that phone call to Sandra Allen.
	10	Q	Were there other items that you felt should have been
	11	printed with regard to that residence?
	12	A	I think all of the areas of entrance and exit should
	13	have been very, very carefully gone over, dusted for
	14	latent fingerprints. There are chairs and other items of
	15	furniture in there where there could be -- I’m not saying
	16	that there would be, but it’s possible there could have
	17	been latent fingerprints.
	18		In viewing the photographs of the scene and
	19	then later the video tape that I was allowed to study,
	20	there was an overturned chair in the family room. It has
	21	wooden legs and, as I recall, wooden sides to the chair.
	22	Probably should have been examined for the presence of
	23	latent fingerprints. That chair was in the den where
	24	there was movement, where that assault very well may have
	25	started. And after all, there was a door that had a pane

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	1	of glass smashed out and the door was open.
	2		The books on the floor should have been
	3	taken as items of evidence and examined for whatever may
	4	have been there, blood spatters. And as remote as the
	5	possibility is, perhaps even latent fingerprints. And,
	6	again, keeping in mind, the prints could be Sandra
	7	Allen’s, could be Steve Allen’s, could be the children,
	8	but also someone else. So they should have been gathered
	9	up and made part of the crime scene investigation, should
	10	have been made as items of evidence, taken to the crime
	11	laboratory for examination.
	12	Q	You mentioned a door. When you were there in
	13	February information was related to you in regard to a
	14	screen door, was it not?
	15	A	Yes, it was.
	16	Q	Can you tell us about your particular observations
	17	there in February of 1991?
	18	A	You’re referring to the door that leads from the den
	19	or family room onto the patio. It is a very common
	20	aluminum screen storm door, as I recall it.
	21		Counselor Carlson indicated that there was
	22	indication that that door may have been locked, that
	23	screen door. I was outside on the patio. I had walked
	24	through the yard and I had gone on the patio. We were
	25	discussing this fact and I asked if anyone had done a test

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	1	with the door to see just how secure the lock is. Many of
	2	those doors -- they wear and they’re not real secure
	3	anyway. I reached up and without a great deal of energy
	4	or pull I managed to pull the door open.
	5		I looked at the door and I looked at the
	6	door frame. I didn’t see that there was damage to the
	7	door or the door frame to indicate it had been pried on or
	8	any other way adulterated. There was either a -- there
	9	were either rivets or screws that held that frame into the
	10	door frame of the house. I don’t recall that any of them
	11	were in any way damaged, popped or broken or anything like
	12	that. And I didn’t put a great deal of effort in
	13	springing that door open. I pulled on it, I tugged and it
	14	came open.
	15	Q	Was the door locked?
	16	A	It was locked at that time, because I had gingerly
	17	tested it first. I had a little bit to make sure it was
	18	locked. In fact, Mr. Carlson had ensured that it was
	19	locked and then I popped it open.
	20	Q	And that was the screen door that was, I’ll use the
	21	word, adjacent to the patio door?
	22	A	Yes. In fact, I was standing outside. I was
	23	standing on the patio facing the door when I pulled it
	24	open. So that was the exterior door at the patio.
	25	Q	Should that particular door have been printed?

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	1	A	Absolutely.
	2	Q	Meaning the screen door?
	3	A	The screen door should have been examined for latent
	4	fingerprints. And I am the first to admit sometimes
	5	that’s difficult. An exterior door can be dirty,
	6	whatever. But it still should be examined for pry marks,
	7	indications of force, and latent fingerprints. It’s the
	8	typical unpainted aluminum, so one would have dusted with
	9	the darker contrasting fingerprint powder.
	10	Q	With regard to the photographing of evidence in
	11	place, can you tell me if you’re picking up items how that
	12	should be handled?
	13	A	As I mentioned earlier, there is a rule of thumb or
	14	the so-called golden rule. It was presented to me when I
	15	was going through the one years training at the Armed
	16	Forces Institute of Pathology, as the golden rule of death
	17	investigation; that nothing at a death scene is touched,
	18	altered or moved until it’s photographed in place,
	19	measured in place, entered onto the sketch, entered into
	20	the crime scene notes and made a part of that
	21	investigation, and also entered into what we	 call a chain
	22	of custody, which is a formal document which lists,
	23	starting with item one all the way through every item of
	24	evidence picked up at the crime scene.
	25		There are a number of ways of actually

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	1	handling evidence. The police officer, the investigator
	2	involved, has to be cautious that he or she doesn’t leave
	3	something behind on it, like their fingerprints. So there
	4	are a number of ways that evidence can and should be
	5	handled.
	6		It is suggested that a police officer doing
	7	a crime scene wear gloves. Early on I was trained to wear
	8	surgical gloves like a doctor would wear, but in working
	9	with the Japanese police they explained that they don’t
	10	like that technique because some times there are those
	11	little minute smudges that can come through, and they use
	12	soft white cotton gloves.
	13		Tweezers can bee used, forceps can be used.
	14	And device that can be used to pick up an item of evidence
	15	so that the person doing it doesn’t leave his or her
	16	fingerprints or their sweat or stains or whatever.
	17	Q	Why do you photograph a particular item -- First off,
	18	do you photograph it close up before you take it?
	19	A	The method of photography is basically kind of a two
	20	part thing. One is generalized photographs of the area.
	21	Maybe you use a wide-angle lens as best you can and
	22	photograph -- if we were in the courtroom -- as much of
	23	the entire courtroom as we can. Then working down to
	24	close ups of particular items of evidence, and where we
	25	have an item that’s going to be collected that is going to

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	1	become part of our evidence, a close up photograph.
	2		And there are a number of reasons for doing
	3	this. Being able to positively identify where an item is
	4	located in a room or whatever might become crucial when we
	5	are focusing on a logical suspect to explain positions of
	6	people or movement. It’s not just enough to know that a
	7	bloody garment or a towel or a knife or a gun was picked
	8	up near a counter or near a bathroom sink or whatever. We
	9	need to know exactly where it is. It may explain where
	10	the victim was standing at the time he or she was struck
	11	or stabbed. It may help us explain where the assailant
	12	was standing.
	13		Often times you can trace the course of
	14	movement through an assault or a murder by items of
	15	evidence, by footwear impressions, by fingerprints, by
	16	things that are dropped. For example, if I were to
	17	grapple with this young lady right now maybe I would tear
	18	a button away from her blouse. It’s important to know
	19	that it started -- he or she may run from the courtroom
	20	with me chasing after her. So we can trace the course of
	21	movement, positions of people. That’s very critical when
	22	we focus on a suspect. Especially where that suspect may
	23	tell us well, I was there, but I never got close to the
	24	person or I came in later or I was only a bystander. So
	25	the location recorded by photography is crucial.

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	1	Q	Could you tell me for just a moment, sir, based upon
	2	your education, experience and your review, having been to
	3	the crime scene and of the information that’s been
	4	furnished to you, the additional items that you feel like
	5	inside the house that could have been handled better?
	6	A	We have touched on the examination of latent -- for
	7	latent fingerprints. The gathering of several items that
	8	could be of evidentiary value. Towels with stains. There
	9	is an issue here of a hammer. And certainly the handling
	10	of anything like that has to be done very, very carefully.
	11	Photographed in place, recorded in the sketch.
	12		The furniture, the chairs for example, in
	13	the area where that assault could have taken place. It
	14	doesn’t cost us any more to take something that we
	15	eventually eliminate as evidence, but if we don’t take it
	16	when we have the opportunity as the investigator on the
	17	scene it’s lost forever.
	18		There was a chair lying on it’s side there
	19	in the den that appeared to have blood stains on it. That
	20	was a crucial item of evidence. There was a chair in the
	21	kitchen at the end of the table that mention was made may
	22	have been turned over or lying on its side. That’s
	23	crucial.
	24		Any other times that appear to have been
	25	potential weapons were crucial to the investigation, and

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	1	this would include not only an examination inside the
	2	house, but outside the house. A length of pipe or a
	3	hammer, a piece of chair, a tire iron, a baseball bat, a
	4	cane. Because this victim was beaten, and there’s every
	5	indication that this weapon is a blunt object.
	6	Q	Based upon your education, experience and training,
	7	do you have an opinion as to whether or not, based upon
	8	the way this investigation was handled, that there’s a
	9	good probability that there may have been evidence that
	10	could have eliminated Steve Allen?
	11			MR. CORGAN:	Judge, I’m going to object.
	12	Calls for speculation on the part of the witness.
	13			THE COURT:	Sustained.
	14	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) Based upon your education,
	15	experience and training, do you feel like there’s a
	16	probability that there could have been additional evidence
	17	at the scene that would have been instrumental in this
	18	particular investigation that might possibly have revealed
	19	additional suspects?
	20	A Yes.
	21			MR. CORGAN:	Your Honor, we object. It’s
	22	the same question.
	23			THE COURT:	Sustained.
	24	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) 	Do you have an opinion based upon
	25	your education, experience and training, that there would

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	1	have been a good probability additional evidence was there 
	2	at the scene that was not obtained of whatever nature? 
	3	A	Yes, I do. 
	4	Q	And what do you based that on? 
	5	A	I based that on my observations and review of the 
	6	materials made available to me, transcripts of testimony, 
	7	the video of the overall management, supervision and 
	8	control of the examination of the crime scene, and the 
	9	absence of complete investigation at 1808 Jefferson. By 
	10	not examining the entire property, by not extending beyond 
	11	into the neighborhood and by not going room by room and 
	12	inch by inch in the house. 
	13	Q	If you had been informed in this investigation at 
	14	some point that there were -- from the injury pattern that 
	15	it was not consistent, not characteristic of the hammer 
	16	which was found in the attic, what, if anything, as a 
	17	crime scene investigator, then should you do? 
	18	A	Certainly you should pull out all the stops so to 
	19	speak, to go back and maybe start over. But before you do 
	20	that, gather all your forces, all of those investigators 
	21	involved just like a football team before the game. Map 
	22	out the strategy, say where -- what haven’t we done. 
	23	Start from the beginning. Pick up the pieces and keep 
	24	looking. Pull out the stops. It’s not in the house; is 
	25	it in the yard. It’s not in the yard; is it a block away 
			
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	1	in a storm drain or lying in a gutter or thrown into 
	2	somebody’s flower bed or bushes or whatever down the 
	3	street. One would have to put himself or herself, as the 
	4	investigator, into the mind and the shoes of an assailant. 
	5	Where would that person have run to, where would that 
	6	person have gone; and follow your instincts, your 
	7	training, your experience and examine those areas. 
	8	Q	As a skilled investigator in regard to this 
	9	particular matter, what, if anything, have you seen in 
	10	regard to situations where someone walks in on someone 
	11	they do not know? 
	12	A	I have been involved in investigations and supervised 
	13	them and read of them as a matter of personal training 
	14	where a householder enters their apartment or their house 
	15	and comes on someone they don’t know who’s broken into 
	16	that house. 
	17		Now, the first thing that you might think 
	18	of is that they’re a burglar, but that may not be the 
	19	case. I have been involved in a few violent attacks on 
	20	women where the intent of the attacker and intent of the 
	21	assailant was not burglary, but just someone bent on 
	22	violence. Who knows what drives them, but bent on 
	23	violence. Maybe bent on killing. I know of cases -- I 	
	24	have been involved in one and I know of others -- where 
	25	the assailant went with the expressed purpose in their 
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	1	mind to kill, and then after they had done the crime, 
	2	after the attack was over, they wanted a souvenir, 
	3	something to take away with them. 
	4		I know of a case I was involved in where 
	5	the assailant liked jewelry. He’d take a reminder. 
	6		MR. CORGAN: Your Honor, this is 
	7	fascinating, but I’m not getting the relevance as to this 
	8	particular case and we’d object. We don’t think it’s 
	9	responsive to the question. 
	10		MR. CARLSON: Can we respond? 
	11		THE COURT: Sustained to the form of the 
	12	question. 
	13	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) Do you have an opinion, from your 
	14	experience, education and training, based upon the fact 
	15	that we may or may not have anything missing from the 
	16	scene, as to whether or not that tells us specifically as 
	17	to whether or not there was a stranger or intruder in the 
	18	home? 
	19		MR. CORGAN:	Again, I think it calls for 
	20	speculation on the part of this witness. 
	21		THE COURT:	You may answer in general 
	22	terms. 
	23	A	May I ask that you repeat that please. 
	24	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) I’ll do the best I can. Based upon 
	25	your education, experience and training, do you have an 
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	1	opinion  and based upon the fact that we may or may not
	2	let's assume for a minute that we may not be able to
	3	prove that there was anything taken from the home of
	4	value, as to whether or not that specifically tells us
	5	whether or not there was a stranger or intruder in the
	6	home?
	7	A	The value of what could be missing I don't think is
	8	the important consideration here. A stranger could have
	9	been in there bent on violence or whatever who --
	10		MR. CORGAN:	Your Honor, I'm going to ask
	11	that the witness be directed to answer the question,
	12	respond to the question.
	13		THE COURT:	Just respond to his specific
	14	question.
	15	A	I don't think that tells us, counsel.
	16	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) Why is that?
	17	A	Value is not the crucial thing here.
	18	Q	What could the crucial thing here?
	19		MR. CORGAN:	Again, Your Honor, we're going
	20	to object to the speculation on the part of the witness.
	21		THE COURT:	You may answer.
	22	A	Being there, doing the act and maybe carrying
	23	something small and insignificant away.
	24	Q	(By Mr. Carlson)	Could you give us an example of
	25	what you mean by small and insignificant?

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	1 	A	The driver's license of the victim that has the
	2	picture of the person who was attacked or murdered. An
	3	item of clothing that could be very insignificant. A
	4	blouse, undergarments, a piece of jewelry. It may not
	5	have a lot of intrinsic value.
	6	Q	Have you had occasion to be furnished information in
	7	this particular matter in regard to the interrogation that
	8	was conducted in this case?
	9	A	Yes, I did, counsel.
	10	Q	Based upon your education, experience and training,
	11	would you address that for us?
	12		MR. CORGAN:	Excuse me, Your Honor. I
	13	don't believe it's been established as to this witness's
	14	qualifications in the area of interrogation.
	15		MR. CARLSON: I can do that if you want me
	16	to.
	17		THE COURT:	Well, there's no foundation and
	18	the question is too general anyway.
	19	Q	(By Mr. Carlson)	Mr. Gluba, have you had occasion to
	20	be involved in the interrogation of people who various
	21	authorities were considering as a possible suspect?
	22	A	Yes, sir, on hundreds of occasions.
	23	Q	Have you done that yourself?
	24	A	On hundreds of occasions.
	25	Q	And have you also worked in conjunction with other

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	1	police forces simultaneously when that was being done?
	2	A	Yes, I have.
	3	Q	I would like to direct your attention in this
	4	particular case to the fact that we have had evidence that
	5	there was an audio recording made at approximately three
	6	o'clock a.m., but the audio recording is no longer
	7	available.
	8	A	That would strike me as an absence of case management
	9	in this investigation, and perhaps would lead me to
	10	question the depth, the thoroughness and the detail in
	11	which this investigation was conducted.
	12	Q	Have you ever had that happen to you?
	13	A	No, sir. Not in my 27 years.
	14	Q	How is a particular audio recording -- how should it
	15	be handled within authorities' hands to prevent something
	16	like that?
	17	A	First off, the fact that an interview is recorded
	18	must be noted in the notes of the event maintained by the
	19	investigator, and then the audio tape, the plastic
	20	cassette, should be marked for identification. A label
	21	can be affixed with the name of the case, the date, the
	22	time, the place if there's sufficient room, the initials
	23	or the name of the investigator, and then the integrity of
	24	that recording should be protected. The service that I
	25	served in required that those recordings become part of

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	1	the master case file, marked as evidence and secured along
	2	with other items that were pertinent to the investigation.
	3	Q	With regard to when you were present at the home the
	4	first time in February, I'm going to direct your attention
	5	to that. Did you have occasion to notice that there was
	6	carpet that had been cut out of a portion of the rug?
	7	A	No, I did not.
	8	Q	If I were to advise you that there was some carpet
	9	that was cut out and that it had been submitted for
	10	evidence, would you have then understood why that would
	11	have been done?
	12	A	Yes, I would.
	13	Q	All right. And why would that have been done?
	14		MR. CORGAN:	Judge, I'm going to object.
	15	We're really getting into speculation at this point.
	16		MR. CARLSON:	He's a crime scene
	17	investigator.
	18		THE COURT:	You may answer.
	19	A	The carpet is a crucial item of potential base for
	20	evidence. The door in the family room, the glass had been
	21	broken. Part of the investigation should have included
	22	the thought that maybe an assailant came that way and
	23	exited that way. The carpet should have been first
	24	examined visually by the investigators looking for large
	25	items of evidence, glass or whatever. You do that by

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	1	getting down on your hands and knees and using a bleak
	2	light. Shine your flashlight across -
	3		MR. CORGAN:	Excuse me, Your Honor. Again,
	4	I don't believe the witness is responding to the question.
	5	As I recall the question was why do you send it to the
	6	lab.
	7		THE COURT:	Just respond to his particular
	8	question.
	9	A	Should be sent to the lab to look for trace evidence
	10	for dirt, rocks, gravel that could have been brought in by
	11	an assailant, for glass that was broken out of the door.
	12	There was also other glass broken in that family room out
	13	of a television set and mirror, for footwear -- well, for
	14	blood stains. For other stains. Any other kind of stain
	15	that could have come off a person's shoe for example; like
	16	grease or paint or any item that can be used to trace to a
	17	person. Fibers, hairs. It should have been examined.
	18	Q	How do you collect trace evidence, from your
	19	experience as a crime scene investigator, from carpets?
	20	A	Generally by first the visual examination and then by
	21	vacuuming using -- there are vacuums that are designed for
	22	this that have filters that will catch small items like
	23	hair and fiber and dirt and whatever. So it's a vacuuming
	24	process.
	25	Q	What do you do after you vacuum?

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	1	A 	What is captured in the filters is then treated as
	2	evidence, placed in a sealed container, whether it’s a box
	3	or a bag, and sent to the crime laboratory for analysis,
	4	for examination.
	5	Q	Were you furnished the crime scene photographs in
	6	regard to this particular case?
	7	A	Yes, I was.
	8	Q	Within those crime scene photographs, did you have
	9	occasion to see any photographs of any pieces of plants?
	10	A	Pieces of plants. As I recall leaves from the
	11	outside, from the Iris.
	12	Q	Were you presented photographs in regard to those or
	13	do you recall?
	14	A	I’m not specifically certain. I know that I have
	15	read some reports on the fronds or the leaves.
	16	Q	Okay. We’ve established that that would have been
	17	important to have photographs of those.
	18			MR. CORGAN: Judge, we’d object to the
	19	leading nature of the question.
	20	A	Absolutely.
	21			MR. CARLSON: I’ll rephrase it.
	22	Q 	(By Mr. Carlson) What, if any, significance would
	23	it have so far as photography is concerned?
	24			MR. CORGAN: It’s been asked and answered.
	25			THE COURT: It’s been covered.

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	1	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) Have you been presented any
	2	evidence in regard to a log of the victim’s purse in this
	3	particular case?
	4	A	I have not.
	5	Q	Are you aware of any type of a log of what was in the
	6	victim’s purse, and tell me what the log should encompass?
	7	A	The log should encompass all the contents, describe
	8	the purse, color and whatever, and then what all the
	9	contents are.
	10	Q	I hand you State’s Exhibit 5 and ask if you’ve had a
	11	chance to review that before?
	12	A	Yes, I have. It’s a photograph made in the kitchen
	13	area of the house there at 1808, and there is a white
	14	light-colored purse here on the sink counter.
	15	Q	What, if any, significance would that have to you as
	16	a crime scene investigator based upon what you know so far
	17	as a log and inventory of the purse of the victim?
	18	A	Well, it should be inventoried as part of the
	19	examination of the scene. The significance could be
	20	whatever the contents of that purse are. I mean, writings
	21	or letters or keys or photographs, personal things. It’s
	22	hard to say. But every item must be looked at.
	23		THE COURT: Let’s go ahead and recess for
	24	lunch until 1:30. Recess until 1:30.
	25		(THE NOON RECESS WAS HAD. AFTER WHICH THE

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	1			FOLLOWING PROCEEDING WERE HAD OUTSIDE THE
	2			HEARING OF THE JURY:
	3			THE COURT: Show that we’re in chambers
	4	with counsel and that we’ve just completed viewing at
	5	least in part five-- six video tapes having to do with ---
	6			MR. BUCHANAN: Four glass breaking
	7	experiments, one showing Steve Allen's car pulling into
	8	the driveway at 1808 Jefferson Road and one showing the
	9	pulling open of a storm door.
	10			MR. CORGAN:	Well, Judge, our position on
	11	all of those is --  let me start first with the glass
	12	breaking. We think the scene has been altered in that the
	13	carpet is obviously higher in the room than it was at the
	14	initial breaking. It’s up over the baseboard. It’s not
	15	properly under the baseboard. The glass is broken out
	16	substantially more than the scene indicates. We think it
	17	just goes to a matter of speculation and would do nothing
	18	to aid or assist the jury.
	19		That would be in regard to the glass
	20	breakings. As far a the opening of the door goes, I think
	21	we have the same type suggestion, you know, almost a year
	22	later. We have someone at that point jerking open the
	23	door. Obviously the door is not the same a year later
	24	that it was a year before. So we don’t know that that has
	25	any probative value.
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	1		And then as far as pulling into the
	2	driveway in the car, again, it’s a year later. It shows
	3	what it looked like at the time. I don’t know that it
	4	necessarily shows what the driver would have seen. So we
	5	object to all of those for that -- for those reasons.
	6		MR. BUCHANAN: Judge, on the glass
	7	breaking, of course we’ve submitted a case this morning to
	8	the court, you know, indicating that the testing
	9	conditions for any kind of experiment do not have to be
	10	exact. We have the pane of glass being replaced and
	11	broken in the same square, if that’s the right phrase, in
	12	the door. And it’s securely held by, the picture
	13	indicates, door molding or frame molding on all four
	14	sides. That, you know, is -- the exact same hole is left
	15	in the glass as was left in the glass that night.
	16		Basically what Mr. Corgan is saying is you
	17	--  it’s not possible or not feasible or credible to do any
	18	experiments breaking that glass because you’re never going
	19	to get the same cracks and the same hole. If that were
	20	the requirement before the test being admitted you
	21	couldn’t do it period. You just couldn’t do it if you had
	22	to make the same hole in the glass as the one that was
	23	done that night.
	24		The carpet, especially in the first two
	25	videos, you can actually see the pad and carpet laying on


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	1	the pad so you can get an idea that the carpet is lying
	2	just on the pad. It’s not higher or lower or whatever.
	3	Certainly the last two may be overlapping in one place,
	4	maybe a little bit higher, but Mr. Corgan can certainly
	5	bring that out on his cross-examination as to a change in
	6	condition, and it’s up to the jury to decide whether, you
	7	know, that somehow or another that makes the four glass
	8	breakings different than it was that night. But that’s
	9	not a matter of admissibility; that’s a matter of weight
	10	to be given to the test, any differences in it.
	11		And as to the door opening, I’m not -- I
	12	guess I need to have Mr. Corgan explain how it’s obvious
	13	the door is not in the same condition. I didn’t see in
	14	the video how it was obvious that it was different a year
	15	later. It’s the same door. I’m not sure what is so
	16	obvious about that. That was just a bald representation.
	17	I don’t know what that means, but certainly we’re going to
	18	have someone here to testify as to what he did and what
	19	the results were when he opened the door.
	20		And last the video camera is obviously in a
	21	position looking from, you know, what, south to north, and
	22	you can see the Allen car and the Allen headlights as it
	23	pulls in and as it flashes across the patio, and it shows
	24	very, you know, shows what a figure looks like turning and
	25	running from that point.


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	1			THE COURT: Anything else?
	2			MR. CORGAN: No.
	3			THE COURT: Okay. Show the objection
	4	overruled.
	5			MR. CARLSON: I need to take up one quick
	6	matter. We have filed a motion to substitute an original
	7	witness. We have a William Haggard who’s listed as a
	8	witness. A person who works in his organization named Lee
	9	who is also a person who will testify as to weather
	10	conditions on June 11th, 1990. We would like to call Mr.
	11	Lee. We filed this motion Monday and gave the state a
	12	copy of it. We’d like to call Mr. Lee instead of Mr.
	13	Haggard for the reason Mr. Haggard can’t be here.
	14			MR. BUCHANAN: The testimony is not
	15	different.
	16			THE COURT: Expert opinions on what the
	17	weather condition was?
	18			MR. CARLSON: Expert in regard to--
	19	wouldn’t be an expert --  yes, probably would be. It would
	20	be based on the dew.
	21			THE COURT: Whether you can leave dew
	22	prints or not?
	23			MR. BUCHANAN: Or whether there was or was
	24	not dew that night.
	25			MR. CARLSON: Well, weather data and time

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	1	and temperature and that sort of thing.
	2			THE COURT:	State?
	3			MR. CORGAN:	Were we given notice of Mr.
	4	Haggard?
	5			MR. CARLSON:	He’s on the witness list.
	6			MR. CORGAN:	I don’t recall him being on
	7	the list.
	8			MR. CARLSON:	Yeah, Jim Otte has talked to
	9	him.
	10			MR. CORGAN:	Okay. He’s the one from North
	11	Carolina.
	12			MR.CARLSON:	Right.
	13			MR.BUCHANAN:	We’re just asking to take
	14	him off and substitute Mr. Lee in his place.
	15			MR.CORGAN:	Well, I thought the one you
	16	gave me said something about Peter Pan Street in Norman.
	17	What's that?
	18			MR. CARLSON:	That’s --  they're the same
	19	organization. They work together.
	20			MR.CORGAN:	One's in North Carolina and
	21	one’s on Peter Pan Street in Norman and they work
	22	together?
	23			MR. CARLSON:	It’s not uncommon.
	24			MR. CORGAN:	Well, do they commute?
	25			MR. CARLSON:	They don’t commute. They're


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	1	both meteorologist.
	2			MR. CORGAN:	Well, I mean, I see a
	3	distinction between being a meteorologist and working
	4	together.
	5			MR. CARLSON: I mean they work together in
	6	that they both are involved in the consulting business
	7	together under the same business.
	8			THE COURT: The same corporation.
	9			MR. CARLSON: Yeah. They guy also teaches
	10	at the University of Oklahoma.
	11			THE COURT: Fine.
	12			MR. CORGAN: Do I understand the court is
	13	going to allow --  we’re going to watch the same four glass
	14	breaking videos? I mean, we’re going to watch all four of
	15	those? Not only are you going to allow them, but you’re
	16	going to allow all four?
	17			MR. CARLSON: Judge, from our point of view
	18	it’s important to show the jury that we didn’t get out
	19	there and have a fluke. We had four times, four different
	20	breakings, and they can see that for themselves.
	21			THE COURT: Can we do like we did when we
	22	watched it, go all the way through one and just sort of
	23	show the breaking on the others? I assume he’s going to
	24	testify to it.
	25			MR. CARLSON: In other words, I guess the

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	1	main point is that there’s glass on the hearth.
	2			THE COURT: I assume that’s the primary --
	3			MR. CARLSON: Forward it up to that point?
	4			THE COURT: To show the breakings, the
	5	important parts.
	6			MR. CARLSON: We can do that and we can
	7	testify as to what happened.
	8			THE COURT: I assume you’re going to have
	9	testimony as to what you consider the critical locations
	10	of the laying of the glass.
	11			MR. CARLSON: Right. I think we can do
	12	that. I think that would be fine.
	13			(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD IN THE

	14			COURTROOM WITHIN THE HEARING OF THE JURY:)
	15			THE COURT: All right. Show that the
	16	jury's back all present. Mr. Gluba, if you’d resume the
	17	stand and, Mr. Carlson, if you’ll continue your direct
	18	examination.
	19			MR. CARLSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
	20	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) Mr. Gluba, could you tell us what
	21	your ultimate opinions are in this particular case?
	22	A	That it is probable that there was evidence at that
	23	crime scene which would have --
	24			MR. CORGAN: Again, Your Honor, --
	25	A	--  excluded Mr. Allen --

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39

	1			MR. CORGAN: Excuse me, sir. Might we
	2	approach the bench, Judge?
	3		(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD AT THE
	4		BENCH OUTSIDE THE HEARING OF THE JURY:)
	5			MR. CARLSON: I assumed that the court
	6	sustained the objection because of the leading question.
	7	We’re asking his opinion that --  he’s entitled to give his
	8	opinions in this particular case as an expert.
	9			MR. CORGAN: Well, Judge I think as an
	10	expert it’s going beyond that to say and I think it’s
	11	probable that there was trace evidence of other people
	12	there, it’s probable there were things that would have
	13	indicated Mr. Allen --  that’s pure speculation.
	14			MR. CARLSON: That’s not speculation,
	15	that’s his opinion. He’s a crime scene investigator. You
	16	can cross-examine him on the basis for that opinion, and
	17	if you can show that that opinion is not well-founded then
	18	that’s your job and it’s just like --
	19			THE COURT: Well, he can’t give an opinion
	20	like he tried to give.
	21			MR. CORGAN: Your Honor, that’s going
	22	beyond what an expert can do.
	23			THE COURT: He’s testified at best that the
	24	police did a shoddy job and you can’t get step two in your
	25	questioning.

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40
	1			MR. CARLSON: Well, do you want me to just
	2	exclude --  ask his	opinion on more specific terms?
	3			THE COURT: Well, I think you’ve covered
	4	specifics all morning.
	5			MR. CARLSON: Well, I guess I need to ask
	6	you, you know, his	written report in regard to this matter
	7	which was given to	the state, can I ask him to state those
	8	particular opinions?
	9			MR. CORGAN: Judge, he’s done that.
	10			MR. CARLSON: No, he hasn’t.
	11			MR. CORGAN: We’re just replowing old
	12	ground. Kicking a bucket that’s been kicked.
	13			MR. CARLSON: He hasn’t given his ultimate
	14	opinion so far as overall investigation. I asked him
	15	about specific things, but that’s what I’m asking is his
	16	opinion on the ultimate investigation.
	17			THE COURT: Well, the opinion that he just
	18	attempted to blurt	out would be improper so I don’t know
	19	what else you’re going to ask him. What else do you
	20	expect him to say?
	21			MR. CARLSON: What about if I ask him with
	22	regard to his opinion so far as the focus of the
	23	investigation?
	24			THE COURT: I don’t understand your
	25	question.

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	1			MR. CARLSON:	Well, what, if anything, does
	2	he have as far as an opinion with to the focus of
	3	the investigation in regard to Steve Allen.
	4			THE COURT:	What does that mean?
	5			MR. CARLSON:	Well, I anticipate that he
	6	will say that he feels like that they focused on Steve
	7	Allen and to the exclusion of almost anybody else at a
	8	relatively early time which can be a problem.
	9			THE COURT:	I don’t have a problem with.
	10	that.
	11			MR. CARLSON:	Okay.
	12			THE COURT:	I have a problem with him
	13	saying anything more than the next step saying if they
	14	hadn’t foreclosed their mind obviously they would have
	15	found somebody else or could have -- well, the next step
	16	he’s not capable of doing. No one’s capable of doing.
	17			MR. CARLSON:	Well, I’ll ask him about his
	18	opinion so far as focusing on Steve Allen.
	19			THE COURT:	All right.
	20		(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD WITHIN
	21		THE HEARING OF THE JURY:)
	22			THE COURT:	Ladies and gentlemen, if you
	23	would ignore the last partial answer of the witness. Go
	24	ahead, Mr. Carlson.
	25	Q	(By Mr. Carlson) What, if anything, Mr. Gluba, is

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42
	1	your opinion with regard to this particular investigation
	2	focusing on Steve Allen?
	3	A	That the premature focusing on Mr. Allen as a suspect
	4	to the exclusion of others resulted from tunnel vision, if
	5	you will, on the part of the investigators, which resulted
	6	in their fitting the investigation to Mr. Allen as the
	7	suspect.
	8	Q	Let me ask you -- I asked you this morning when -- I
	9	think we’ve touched on the issue of carpet. What, if
	10	anything, have you noticed about the carpet?
	11	A	I misunderstood your question. I thought you asked
	12	me if the carpet had been removed. There has been a
	13	segment or a strip of carpeting removed out of the den or
	14	the family room there at 1808.
	15	Q	Was it that way when you were there in February?
	16	A	No.
	17	Q	With regard to your time, are you being compensated
	18	for your time in the hearing here?
	19	A	Yes, I am.
	20	Q	And are you being compensated on an hourly basis?
	21	A	Yes, I am.
	22	Q	Okay. And would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of
	23	the jury how you’re compensated?
	24	A	I’m compensated at $75 per hour that I engage in this
	25	investigation in this case.

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	1	Q	And does that include the time that you spend working
	2	on this particular case?
	3	A	That’s correct.
	4	Q	You and I ever meet before this?
	5	A	Not before this case, counsel.
	6		          MR. CARLSON: Okay.
	7		          THE COURT: State may inquire.
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