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1 MR. CORGAN: Your Honor, the State would 2 call as our next witness Debra Geurin. 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 4 DEBRA GEURIN 5 after having been duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole 6 truth, and nothing but the truth, testified as follows: 7 DIRECT EXAMINATION 8 THE COURT: Please go ahead. 9 BY MR. CORGAN: 10 Q Would you state your name, please, ma’am. 11 A It’s Debra Geurin. 12 Q Miss Geurin, what is your business, profession, or 13 occupation? 14 A I’m an accountant for Phillips Petroleum Company. 15 Q Would you tell us, please, ma’am, a little bit about 16 your educational background? 17 A I was born in Oklahoma and went to high school in a 18 small town called Calcord and went on to college at 19 Northeastern Oklahoma in Talequah. 20 Q And did you graduate from there? 21 A I graduated from there with a degree in accounting. 22 Q Could you tell us, please, ma’ream, how long you’ve 23 been employed with Phillips Petroleum Company? 24 A A little over 10 years. 25 Q Are you assigned to any particular type group or
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1 section? 2 A I work in what’s called comptrollers, which is our 3 general accounting area and a small group within that 4 called compliance accounting. 5 Q Miss Geurin, do you know the defendant in this case, 6 Stephen Lee Allen? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q How are you acquainted with him? 9 A I have worked with him for probably six years. 10 Q And could you tell us where you two were as far as 11 your working relationship goes physically? 12 A We worked side by side. There was -- we shared a 13 cube for like a year. 14 And then we were -- there (sic) had a wall 15 dividing us, a half wall dividing us for the rest of the 16 time. 17 Q And during that time that you worked with Mr. Allen, 18 did you have occasion to get to know him and to visit with 19 him? 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q Ma’am, has he ever in the past had occasion to visit 22 with you about problems in his marriage? 23 A Yes, sir. 24 Q And could you tell us the general time frame of that, 25 please?
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1 A Probably would have been in April or May of last 2 year. 3 Q That be 1990? 4 A Uh-huh. 5 Q And could you tell us how the topic of problems came 6 up and what it was you discussed at that time with Mr. 7 Allen? 8 A As far as how it came up, it was just general 9 discussions. 10 Q Who brought up the topic? 11 A I do not remember. 12 Q Either you did or he did. 13 A Yeah. 14 Q And tell us a little bit about your discussion. 15 A Any particular -- 16 Q Did he tell you about problems he was having in his 17 marriage? 18 A Uh-huh. 19 Q Tell us what he told you in that regard. 20 A He said that him and Sandra were having some 21 problems; and they were not getting along well as far as 22 physical relations go, that type of problem. 23 Q Is that the term he used, “physical relation”? 24 A I doubt it, but I’m not sure that I could quote him. 25 Q As you recall, what wording did he use?
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1 A I don’t know. He may have called it sexual problems. 2 I’m not -- 3 Q And did he-- 4 A -- positive. 5 Q I’m sorry. Go ahead. 6 A I said I’m not positive of wording. 7 Q Either sexual or physical type problems. 8 A (The witness nodded her head up and down). 9 Q What was your impression that the problem was from’ 10 talking with him? 11 A That Sandra was less or not as interested in sex as 12 he was. 13 Q And did he tell you about any discussions that he had 14 had with Mrs. Allen concerning that? 15 A He said that he had talked with her. 16 Q And did he relate to you any concerns that he had as 17 a result of that conversation with his wife? 18 MR. CARLSON: Your Honor, we’re re trying to 19 refrain from objecting; but this is leading. 20 THE COURT: Overruled. Do you understand 21 the question? 22 A Could you repeat it, please? 23 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Yeah. Let me do this, please. I’m 24 having a little problem hearing you. 25 If you would try -- I’m going to put that right
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1 there, and try to speak up as best you can, okay? 2 You’ve told us that there was some discussion 3 about problems in the Allen marriage. 4 Would you tell us your conversation with Mr. 5 Allen concerning that? 6 A The main conversation that I can remember, he said 7 he’d talked with her and that he -- or maybe I got the 8 impression that she was not interested in sex and did not 9 probably want to have it in the future. 10 Q And you got that impression how, ma’ream? 11 A Obviously from the way it was worded. I’m not sure 12 that I could -- 13 Q Did Mr. what did Mr. -- or did Mr. Allen tell you 14 how he thought or felt about that? 15 A Well, obviously, he was upset about it. 16 Q And did you all discuss what could be done in that 17 regard? 18 A I asked him what he was going to do, and he said that 19 he would obviously was going to work on it and see what 20 could be done. 21 Q Now, when he told you about these problems, did he 22 give you any type examples? 23 Other than the fact that Mrs. Allen did not want 24 to have sex, did he give you any examples of problems that 25 he perceived between the two of them and their
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1 relationship? 2 A Most of them seemed to be related to that area or, 3 you know, in essence communication obviously. 4 Q Did the two of you have any type of occasion to 5 discuss something concerning Mother’s Day in 1990? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q And would that have been an example of one of the 8 things he was talking about? 9 A Well, obviously, we talked about that. 10 Q Tell us what you talked about, the substance of that 11 conversation. 12 A They went home to their respective parents in 13 Missouri for Mother’s Day. Steve stayed with his parents, 14 and Sandra stayed with hers. Steve took the eldest son 15 with him for the weekend. 16 Q Did Mr. Allen relate to you why Mother’s Day was 17 spent in that manner? 18 A I believe he said that Sandra suggested it. 19 Q Did he have any explanation to you as to why Mrs. 20 Allen wanted that arrangement? 21 A I don’t know that Steve said it. I had-got the 22 impression she just wanted time away. 23 Q And when you say “away,” what do you mean? 24 A Away from Steve. 25 Q Now, as you discussed these problems, did Mr. Allen
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1 give you any examples of how he was being treated at that 2 time by his wife that caused him concerns about their 3 relationship? 4 A She appeared to be -- I’m not sure of the best 5 word -- treating him coldly, not doing a great deal of 6 communicating with him. 7 Q Did you ever discuss with him if they ever had 8 arguments between the two of them and how the respective 9 parties reacted to each other? 10 A We talked about arguments or disagreements some, I’m 11 sure. 12 Q And what did he tell you in that regard? 13 A I got the impression most the time they didn’t argue, 14 that Sandra just didn’t talk back. 15 Q What do you mean by that, or what impression did you 16 get? 17 A That if they tried to discuss an issue, Sandra would 18 not communicate her feelings on the issue. Would be more 19 just not communicating to some extent or -- 20 MR. CORGAN: I believe that’s all. 21 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Thank you, ma’ream. 22 THE COURT: If anybody has a red and white 23 Ford parked behind the Hamburger Store, it may be towed, 24 if that’s your car. Go ahead, Mr. Carlson. 25 MR. CARLSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
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1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2 CROSS-EXAMINATION 3 BY MR. CARLSON: 4 Q Miss Geurin, did Steve ever tell you that he loved 5 Sandra? 6 A Yes, he did. 7 Q Did he tell you that on more than one occasion? 8 A Yes, he did. 9 Q And did he tell you that in point of time close to- - 10 Mother’s Day? 11 A I’m sure he would have. 12 Q And do you know if Steve bought Sandra anything for - 13 Mother’s Day? 14 A I believe he bought her a vacuum cleaner. 15 Q Did you ever hear Steve make any negative comments 16 about Sandra? 17 A No. You know, he felt things like, you know, she’s 18 disorganized and that type of small thing; but he was very 19 positive about Sandra. 20 Q What kind of relationship Steve have with his 21 children, or at least what did he communicate with you and 22 what did you see? 23 A He adored his children very much. He had a very 24 close relationship with them. He spent a great deal of 25 time with them, gave them their baths.
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1 He took them places. He was -- talked about 2 them a great deal. 3 Q What, if any, conversations and what did you learn 4 about what Steve did around the house? 5 A He was a very helpful husband. He related frequently 6 that he’d cooked dinner, he’d done dishes, or he’d just 7 straighten the house or he had vacuumed or taken care of 8 the kids. 9 Q With regard to Steve’s relationship and the 10 relationship with Sandra, did you get any impression that 11 he was working on that relationship? 12 A I think he was very much. He made efforts to spend 13 time alone with her, arranged for babysitting at different 14 times. He was very interested, I think, in their 15 relationship. 16 Q Did you get the impression that he was really working 17 on the marriage? 18 A Yes. He was spending the time that it would take. 19 It was -- you have to spend time alone in order to work on 20 a relationship, and I think he was trying to arrange that 21 time. 22 Q Now, you worked with Steve six years; is that 23 correct? 24 A Yes, sir. 25 Q You ever see him display any anger at work?
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1 A Nothing much, huh-uh. 2 Q Do you know what his situation was so far as 3 promotionwise at work? 4 A Steve got his accounting degree after I completed 5 mine, but I know that he was at least within one grade or 6 possible a grade equivalent of me. 7 Q What would that mean? 8 A That would mean that he got promoted rather fast. 9 Q And how did he get along with his co-workers? 10 A I always got the impression that everyone liked 11 Steve. That he was had a lot of people stop in to 12 visit with him and that type of thing. 13 Q Would you consider Steve a friend? 14 A Yes, sir. 15 Q Did anyone ever intimate more than that? 16 A After his arrest? 17 Q Yes. 18 A I’ve had questions, yes. 19 Q Okay. And who questioned you about that? 20 A I’ve had the local police ask me and the OSBI. 21 Q Did they ever -- was there ever any accusations made 22 towards you? 23 MR. CORGAN: Object to the form of the 24 question. 25 THE COURT: You may answer.
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1 A They asked me if I’d had an affair with Steve, which, 2 of course, I have not. 3 Q (By Mr. Carlson) Do you have a family? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q And what’s your family consist of? 6 A I have a husband, which we’ve been married for 10 7 years, and two small children. 8 Q How old are your children? 9 A I have a six year old and a two year old. 10 Q Thank you. 11 THE COURT: Any questions? 12 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 13 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. CORGAN: 15 Q Miss Geurin, you say that Mr. Allen told you that he 16 got his wife a vacuum cleaner for Mother’s Day? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q Did he mention that he got her anything else? 19 A Not as far as presents go. 20 Q Well, did he get her anything else that the two of 21 you had occasion to talk about? 22 A He’d given her a Mother’s Day card. 23 Q And tell us what he told you about that. 24 A He said that he had put it in her suitcase for her to 25 open while she was at her mother’s house.
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1 Q And did he tell you how he felt about that or what 2 happened as a result of that card? 3 A He said that she had not thanked him for the card, 4 and he was hurt by that. 5 Q Now, you say that he told you that he helped out 6 around the house, helped with the kids, cooking, those 7 type things. 8 Would that be an example of some of the things 9 he was trying to do to further their marriage 10 relationship? 11 A Steve has always done that. I mean, he may have been 12 trying harder in that area; but he’s always worked around 13 the home. 14 Q As you discussed with him the things that he was 15 doing, such as I believe you said making arrangements that 16 he and his wife could spend time alone together, did he 17 tell you how Mrs. Allen responded to that and her reaction 18 to those type arrangements? 19 A Not much. She usually went. She didn’t -- He made 20 the arrangements. I’m not sure. 21 Q Well, did you -- what impression, if any, did you get 22 from him as to how that was working with Mrs. Allen as he 23 tried to make that time alone for the two of them? 24 A Got the impression that she wasn’t changing a great 25 deal.
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1 Q What was your impression as he continued to work on 2 the relationship as to whether that relationship was in 3 fact improving? 4 A I’m not sure that I know of any improvement or 5 change. 6 Q Did you have occasion to talk with Mr. Allen to see 7 if there had been any improvement as to the relationship 8 or change in the relationship? 9 A We, you know, we worked together. We talked every- 10 day, I’m sure; but I just don’t remember. 11 Q Now, the local law enforcement, as well as the OSBI, 12 had occasion to interview you about this case; is that 13 correct? 14 A Yes, sir. 15 Q And you’ve been interviewed, of course, by myself and 16 Mr. Carlson, right? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q Now, you are aware -- or this area as far as asking 19 your about whether you had had an affair with the 20 defendant, was that -- do you know if law enforcement at 21 that time had information that Mr. Allen had been involved 22 in an affair? 23 A I believe they did. 24 Q And what was then your impression as they were asking 25 you those questions?
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1 A My impression was that they were looking for multiple 2 affairs. 3 Q And would you -- would it surprise you that if they 4 were trying to determine that, they would obviously have 5 to talk to more than one person? 6 A No. 7 Q And would it surprise you that as a close co-worker 8 that it could be possible that you would be in that 9 position? 10 A It would not surprise me, no. 11 Q So there was not anything, obviously, improper about 12 law enforcement making those inquiries, was there, ma’ream? 13 A Not in asking me one time. 14 Q You felt like when you were asked more than once that 15 that was improper. 16 A I didn’t care for it. 17 MR. CORGAN: That’s all. 18 THE COURT: Further? 19 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 20 RECROSS-EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. CARLSON: 22 Q How many times did they ask you, Mrs. Geurin? 23 A Every time I spoke to them. 24 Q Was there anything else about Steve that they asked 25 you?
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1 A You know, they asked me how well he was liked, how he 2 was doing at work. 3 Q Ever ask you about whether he wore contact lenses? 4 A Yes, sir, they did. 5 Q Do you recall when they asked you that? 6 A No. I just know it was during one of the early 7 interviews. 8 Q Did you ever see him wear contact lenses? 9 A No, sir. 10 Q Thank you. 11 MR. CARLSON: That’s all we have. 12 MR. CORGAN: That’s all. 13 THE COURT: Thank you, ma’am. Step down. 14 Call your next witness. 15 MR. CORGAN: Your Honor, we’d call Debra 16 Aubrey. 17 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- 18 DEBRA K. AUBREY 19 after having been duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole 20 truth, and nothing but the truth, testified as follows: 21 DIRECT EXAMINATION 22 THE COURT: Proceed. 23 BY MR. CORGAN: 24 Q State your name, please, ma’am. 25 A Debra K. Aubrey.
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