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Michael Knott interview supporting LSU's "Dogfish Jones" release 7ball magazine, July/August '97
Maverick. Controversial. These words have been used to describe Michael Knott and his work often enough that you'd think he wore them on a sign around his neck. The truth is, for every time he has left the pundits bristling or Christian retailers wondering if they really should carry that next album, Knott has shown great sensitivity. Songs such as "Blame," from LSU's last album,"Grace Shaker" (1994) reveal a thoughtful, perceptive artist, in stark contrast to the banshee who wailed "Wino of the Red is Stained" on LSU's "The GrapeProphet" (1992).
If nothing else is revealed in Knott's music, it's his humanity. Here is a man, who for many years has plastered the best and worst of himself all over his records. For many, he's too frank; too candid. For others, who have a difficult time identifying with the peppier, carefree side of CCM radio, Knott has become an unlikely hero.
Knott spins seedy stories of hard-luck characters in need of redemption, along with bittersweet tales of his own struggle to unburden his difficulties,whether thrust upon him by others or self-inflicted. Knott gets us to think, or at the very least, to react. He may not be following the CCM party line, but to quote1987's seminal Lifesavers Underground album, "Shaded Pain," "How can we beforgiven if we don't live our lives?"
Well familiar with creating appeal from outside the norm, Knott has twice brought the CCM audience into the relatively uncharted territory of the concept album - or, as Knott jokingly prefers to call it (following Pete Townshend's lead), "rock opera." "The Grape Prophet" told the story of Ellis, the head picker in Colonel Peckesen's orange groves. The album's theme had ties to Knott's own experience with the Vineyard church. 1995 finally saw the release of the long-shelved solo album, "Fluid." The story detailed the final moments in the life of Jenny May in the wake of an auto accident, and the battle between Heaven and Hell for her soul. Heady (and hearty) stuff.
This year, during a break in schedule from his mainstream market band Aunt Bettys, Knott completed his third (and allegedly final) rock opera: LSU's"Dogfish Jones." Whereas in the past Knott has preferred to let the music speak for itself, he thought it might be worthwhile to let the audience in on the back-story this time. 7ball's Jeff Elbel met with Mike Knott at an Acapulco restaurant in Costa Mesa,California on the day before Mike's eighth wedding anniversary to listen to a story of swashbuckling adventure upon the high seas, deserted islands, and the like. Luckily, he even told us a little about what it all really meant.
J: If this is an opera, I should know something about the characters.
M: It consists of a sailor, a shipwreck, the sailor being swallowed by a whale, killer mermaids, a cave, a mercy maid who takes care of the sailor, a romance, a reluctant rescue, and a battle with the pirates! That's the record in a nutshell.
J: It sounds like Moby Dick, Terry and the Pirates, and the Odyssey all rolled together! Is this some grand notion you've had in mind for a while, as you were doing rock 'n' roll with Aunt Bettys? Did Dogfish Jones start as a statement you wanted to make, or was it just a story? Not many people do concep trecords these days.
M: I did want to make a statement. This is the only one of them that truly parallels my experience, I think. It's the one that I feel closest to,anyhow. I enjoyed doing the last two rock operas, and wanted to do one more.
The things that I think really mess people up are envy and strife. We all have it toward different things and different people. I wanted to do an album about the envy and strife that I feel from other people, and that I feel toward people myself. I wanted to mix it all into some kind of story.
That's where the "Green Sea Island" comes into play. The Green Sea Island is the island of envy and strife. The sailor ends up there after a shipwreck; a whale carries him to shore and spits him out. As this is happening, he's shot at by killer mermaids. They're "shooting spines at the sailor's ways, with nothing but a tale to crave." Nonetheless, he arrives on the island, and several aspects of the theme are revealed. The sailor is angry toward people. The sailor has a pity party...
J: The sailor is named Dogfish Jones, I presume?
M: The idea there is that if you see other people and what they have, and you let your envy get to you, it destroys you. If you let strife from others get to you, it destroys you, as well. That's what I call the "Dogfish Jones." A dogfish is basically a shark. It eats you alive. The Jones comes in later, when you've just had too much of it.
But yes, the Dogfish Jones actually becomes part of who the sailor is, as well. He's called two different things on the record. He calls himself "DogfishJones," because he's going through these struggles.
There's a chorus of people that he remembers saying things to him, though. They call him "Barnacle Bob," and they keep saying, "he just can't seem to get it right."
J: He's having an identity crisis!
M: Yeah, and he just can't seem to get it right. While the sailor is heading toward the island, he keeps wanting to say, "take my reservation," in the sense that he's accepting what's happening. He's been shipwrecked, swallowed by a whale, shot at by mermaids, and he feels like he deserves this torture and ridicule; like it's his penance for something. He ends up saying later, "take my resignation." He just wants to give up dealing with how he feels, and how other people feel altogether.
After the whale spits him out, the sailor is lying on the beach dying. He calls out to God at one point. He says, "I heard it was You who could rescue hated souls." All of a sudden, a nice mermaid comes along. She's the mercy maid,and she nurses him back to health. Then, she takes him down underneath the water and shows him the "Magical Rainbow Door," where the sailor actually starts to become free from his oppression.
So, because the mercy maid saved the sailor, she is rewarded. She becomes a woman; her tail turns into legs. That's when the sailor gives her a name, "Seashell Sally." They fall in love and start to have a life together.
After a while, though, envy and strife from the Green Sea Island begin to interfere with that life.
The story goes on from there, into a surprise twist. I alluded to what it was earlier, but I don't want to tell too much about it directly. The story takes kind of a twist, and a turn, and then... everybody dies! So, he could have just drowned when the shipwreck happened, two months ago when I started the record... ... No, just kidding! That's not what happens at all.
J: There are pirates in there somewhere.
M: Yeah, that's one of the twists, actually. You've got the basic outline of the story, though.
J: I understand that your dad plays on the record, and that he's one of the characters.
M: He's the narrator, in a sense. He does a couple of songs at particular points to help the story along. The first song he does is called "Storm at Sea;" it's like an old sea-faring folk song. It's what it sounds like on a ship, when all of the sailors are a little, uh, "weezy," and someone's singing.
J: Sometimes, with a "rock opera," you get a sense of the characters, but you have the feeling that the story is all locked up inside the artist's head. Pink Floyd's "The Wall" is an example of that. Do you think people are going to be able to follow your story this time?
M: This is the only record that I've ever described to anyone before I came out with it. I thought it would be fun to do that once.
J: You don't feel like you're giving it all away?
M: No, I feel like telling people what it is, this time. When I put Fluid out, I never said anything about it. There are people who listened to it for three years and then realized that all the songs went together! On Grape Prophet, I gave a little introduction to the story, which I included with the lyrics.
J: Did Dogfish Jones begin with a certain lyric, which suggested a story, or did you sketch out the entire story and then start working on the individual songs?
M: I sketched out the story first. The thing is, while you're working on it, you really don't know what turn it's going to take. When I started the record, some of the songs didn't have vocal parts written for them yet. You have to figure out where a part's going to go, and what it's going to say. It's like a puzzle.
J: The LSU line-up has transmogrified over the course of several albums. Whether people know it or not, I played bass on the record. Who else is in the band this time?
M: Myself. Andrew Carter played electric guitar on a lot of the songs, and sang some back-up parts. A friend of mine named Chris Brigandi played guitar on some of the songs. Chuck Cummings played drums.
J: Gene Eugene (Adam Again) played keyboards?
M: Gene played the most amazing organ parts I've ever heard in my life. He made it sound like what I'm terming "bachelor pad" music, mixed with a soundtrack from a B- movie with Frankenstein in it. That's the kind of organ he did, and it's so cool. It makes the whole record cool. That was a lot of fun.
Also, I went wild on the vocals this time. There are ten or twelve vocal tracks on most of the songs. Some songs are minimalist, but on most of them I just went crazy. I've never done that before, where I tried multiple parts and harmonies. You can hear everything. I really like how it turned out.
J: Did Rick Rekedal play any cello on this record?
M: No. There are some really wheezy strings on my dad's songs, but those are the only strings on the record. I kind of wanted to feature the organ - the"B-Movie Bachelor Pad" sound.
J: Are you planning to play any shows for this record?
M: Any LSU shows? I don't know, our bass player's really busy. I don't know if he could make it (laughs).
Probably not. I mean, if it was the right thing, we'd do it. My main thing is the Aunt Bettys, though. Platinum Entertainment was kind enough to offer me a one-off deal for an LSU record, and I really appreciated it. I was happy to do it, and very excited to be able to do it.
When I'm between records, I hate that. I really miss it. I love being in the studio. I love writing new songs and recording them. I'm just glad I got to do that!
J: I saw you one day while you were recording. It was just you in a room by yourself, with a microphone set up in front of the mixing board. That was for one of the songs with a dozen vocal parts. I could just imagine you doing take after take after take. How do you keep from feeling like you've just been stuck in an isolation tank all week, and you need to go see the sunlight or you'll go crazy?
M: Well, what could be better than doing your art for a living? I can't think of anything. It has its highs and lows financially, of course, but I can't think of anything I'd rather do.
J: I'm sure it's tough in a situation like Aunt Bettys have. You're trying so hard to get the band on top, and everyone's got to get up at six in the morning to go pull up carpet, or haul wood, or whatever it was I heard Andrew was doing.
M: That's true, but when you've got something you love like music, you can't very well stop doing it. It's just in your bones. You can't help but do it.
Since it's my eight year wedding anniversary, I might as well tell a related story: When we were at pre-marital counseling, the pastor said, "You have to think, Mike, that maybe you need to just put down your guitar and not play music anymore. You may need to give up music if your wife asks you to."
I said to the guy, "Are you out of your mind? If she loves me, she'd never ask me to do that, first of all. Secondly, what am I supposed to do? Just not make up a song any more when I'm walking around the house? I don't need a guitar to make up a song. I just make up songs. Do I shut off my brain or something?" So, that was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
J: ... but not unthinkable for a non-musician to say.
M: Oh, I know, but if music's in your bones, it's in your bones. Whether you have no guitar, or no arms, or whatever. If you're making up songs or singing a tune, how can you help but do that? That's what keeps musicians going through the good times and the mean 'n' lean times.
If it's like breathing, how are you supposed to stop? If someone could really stop doing it forever, then they shouldn't have been doing it in the first place, because it wasn't in 'em. Truly, though, music is a part of life. It always has been, and it always will be. Thank God for it.
J: So, what will you be doing in music when you're sixty-four?
M: If I'm still alive, you mean? Probably trying to get another record deal. Doing another LSU record. Making my fifty-first concept record (laughs).
- Jeff Elbel
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