current music: MxPx _Slowly going the way of the Buffalo_ 
(comment on this)

Every now and again I go through this phase where I try to find new journals to read...hoping to find someone who writes about life like I do now and again...someone doing a bit more than painting a day to day picture of their life...someone with just the teeniest bit of insight into this mess of a world, real or imagined, faulty or dead on...

God is that so much to ask for? there are just TOO MANY PEOPLE JOURNALING! God damn back when open pages was pretty much it, when there were no easy formulated, click here, type, and post journals...there were a lot fewer people on the web. Those of us that wrote had something worth saying, or a way of saying...a little different, worth the time of learning to hand code...it wasn't just getting to know a person's way of life or naming conventions...but a way of getting in touch with their very being. We weren't putting entries up on a lark, for idle amusement, as a diversion from everyday activities. Back then journals were a manifestation of ourselves in cyber space...Back then journals were literary even.

Now half of the random links I click lead to journals that haven't been updated in months, or even years. Now three quarters of the ones that ARE active are full of vapid dribble. Journaling is the "vogue" thing to do now...no longer is it this courageous leap into the world wide web. No longer is it a new medium to remanifest yourself into. 

For crying out loud, I think today's webrings, diary-ls, livejournal/deadjournal/et all schemes...they friggin outnumber the actual journals themselves from the beginning. I mean GOD DAMN...

Society took something that was special, something exciting, and put a 7 god damn 11 spin on it...one on every corner. 

sigh 

that all said...I cherish those(you!) livejournal friends I have just that much more. 

current mood: exasperated
current music: Son Volt 07.25.97 

taliana 
2002-02-13 15:20 
Okay... 

I didn't respond because I was following that little rule that my Mom taught me..."If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." It's always good to stop and reflect awhile before venting, so that's helpful too. I've been way too emotional lately. *grin* 

While I agree...it is more fun to read diaries where the person writes more than just a blow by blow account of their day, I also think it is also important to do that as well. On a personal level, I do that because there is something about that day that is bugging me...and usually by writing down what happened (even if it may seem minor to you or others), it helps me work things out. So on that level, it is beneficial to me. Perhaps not very interesting for others, but I'd like to say that I write for me. I love the feedback one gets when they post their diary online, but primarily, my space is for me. If people don't like it, they can move on to another diary. 

I've also found that I've forgotten things that I wanted to remember that happened in high school...things that I never thought I would forget. Now I wish I had recorded them. So, I may record something because it seemed important at the time. 

Secondly, it does have some historical significance (assuming the online journals are somehow archived either digitally or on paper)...especially in an age where written letters are rarely sent. A lot of what we know about the past was written about in letters or diaries. While I don't believe people in the future are going to particularly care that I went to the dentist today, someone may find it significant that this chic went to the dentist every 6 months if they were studying dental hygiene in the early 2000's. A strange example...but it could happen with tons of other things as well. Sociologists and historians study some strange things. :) 

So, while I share your frustrations at trying to find what I consider to be a "good" diary to read, I remind myself that it is their space to write whatever they feel is important. And I love that there are so many people who are journaling. Back when I first discovered online journals, there were just a few to chose from. I love that I could spend days, just going through journals...Yea, you have to sift through quite a few that you aren't particularly interested in...but that's life. I say the more the merrier. 

Tali :) 

rainingvodka 
2002-02-13 17:34 
Thank you for responding...when it comes to my journal..i welcome all responses, good OR bad. Just my opinion, but i think there's times when we *shouldn't* hold things back. As I hold nothing back when I'm writing this journal, I expect (and hope!) that those reading hold nothing back when responding. Nothing wrong with arguing a point passionately...in fact I purposely made that last post a little antagonistic...which is why the lack of response dismayed me. 

Part of my dissatisfaction stems from a topic I touched on a while ago...namely my dissapointment with the internet in genera;. In the beginning it wasn't AS overwhelming, now it just holds too much information for digestion...even search engines leave rocks unturned...making some information available, basically, on invitation only (either on purpose or accident)...What realy gets at me though is the preponderance of DEAD information, i.e. sites that are no longer updated or will be updated, 404 errors, bad links, pictures that don't work, etc. I'm hoping that as the years go by the internet will clean itself up a bit. 
Hell...even just within LJ it's impossible to search the most popular interests. You find anything more than a few hundred people interested in something and LJ just spits at you. The regional directory is also down. Perhaps if all the dead journals got cleared out things would seem a bit better. 

I suppose it's mostly frustration then at journals that don't live up to my personal standards. I know I don't really have the right to label a person's journal as "worthy" or not...yet i still can't help but have this wish that the ones that weren't so "worthy" would use the slow lane so I could pass them by in my searches. 

Part of my thoughts on the issue, that I didn't really address are thus: what ever happened to offline journals or diaries? It seems that a lot of people would be just as well off as leaving their journal in paper format or on their hard drive...But now it's just "the cool thing to do" to put it online. Why put something online if you have to edit it to protect your feelings or such? Wouldn't it be better to stay offline if you couldn't be completely honest online? What really is the purpose of putting it online if you have to second guess yourself on uploading? Doesn't that defeat the very *purpose* of having a journal? How many of today's journalists would even BE journaling if this online journal craze hadn't hit? How many would even CARE about documenting their teenage years or early 20s or whatever? 

Thank God no-one's come up with a way to make money off of online journals. Then again, as you said, the internet is more and more like Real Life now a days in that it's overcrowded, broken, and sluggish at the best of times...so I suppose it's only a matter of time before we start seeing the Pepsi vs Coca Cola, Hoover vs. Whirpool, diaries of a lifter using Rip Fuel kind of blatant advertising... 

sigh 

taliana 
2002-02-13 21:52 
I see what you are saying...but I guess I just feel that's the way things are. 

But to address your thoughts as to whether the large number of teens(or adults) would be journaling offline--I don't think it really matters. I don't think we write enough--so the more people who write, the better. 

To be honest, I've always written in a journal, although not very regularly. I started in first grade with one of those little diaries with the worthless key. I'd write for half a year and then grow tired of it. Or maybe I was too happy--I tend to write more when I'm upset. At any rate, it'd be awhile before I'd start again. And then the cycle would start again. It really wasn't until I started journaling online that I began to write regularly. During my first year of online journaling, I had close to 365 entries--which was utterly amazing for me. That first year, I didn't write in my paper journal all that often, although I started carrying it with me so I could write when I was away from my computer. Now, the online journaling has tapered off, and I'm writing in my paper journal more. I actually finished an entire journal in 8 months--unheard of. I usually grew bored with that journal and would start a new one. 

All of this to say, perhaps these kids who are writing online now will begin to write more because of their online journals. The positive reinforcement from others in the form of notes could become a powerful stimulus to write--which ordinarily would not be there. 

Yea, there is a lot of dead wood out there. And it is frustrating to have to sift through all of it to find the gems. But you can find them if you take the time--and think of how much more you appreciate them when you find them b/c of all the effort. *grin* 

And...sorry I didn't respond right away..but it was probably for the best. I've been in a funk b/c of something that happened this weekend which caused me to really lose my temper...and after reading your entry, I was really pissed. It was best that I cool down first. :) 
 

rainingvodka 
2002-02-15 19:21 
I had to think about this for a bit before I replied back... 

I think I've arrived at the crux of our disagreement...it's always been my opinion that there TOO MANY people writing...too many people trying to force feed their writing on people when more than half of all the writing already out there is crap. 

I once had a serious issue with whether or not I myself should continue writing...since I was fairly sure I fell into the crap category (and, at the time, I probably did too). That's why I don't like run of the mill everday journals...they don't offer anything new or interesting or worthwhile to our collective consiousness (IMO). That's why I try to only post when I have something I feel is worth saying. 

And yet I understand the argument about how if we made people question themselves and/or their writing, that we may lose what would be modern day equivalents to Hesse, or Hemmingway, Tolstoy, Elliot, Whitman, etc. etc. Personally I find it more appealing to think that those great writers who do persevere HAVE questioned themselves...I'm all about exploration or yourself and the strength that comes from within it...I think the best writing can only come after such strength is achieved. 

But of course, that's all just personal opinion. I don't really have anything to back my words up...I certainly won't/can't provide myself as n example since I hardly write anymore outside of this journal. 

And as I was saying earlier...it ties into my collective perceptions of the world around us too...There are simply too many people on this rock we call Earth and pretty much all my gripes can be tied into that in some fashion or another. 

 
taliana 
2002-02-16 00:53 
Okay..just one question and one point of clarification and then I don't really have much more to say about the subject. I've enjoyed the discussion though. *Grin* 

What do you mean by, "too many people trying to force feed their writing on people"? I ask because I've never had anyone force me to read what they've written. Not even my fiance. He writes novels, and I refuse to read it until it is done...despite his many requests for me to read before then. I hate not knowing what happens in the end..and he often starts something and doesn't finish it (it's a part of his OCD), which is incredibly frustrating for me. :) 

Anyway...just wanted to clarify what I meant by positive reinforcement by way of notes. I don't mean that someone writes to let you know you wrote a great entry...I just mean when someone notes you at all. I know when I started online journaling, notes, no matter what they said, made me want to write more. It was nice to know that someone was listening. They didn't have to agree with me--it was just nice to get some feedback. Much like your request for notes to this particular topic. 

Questioning your writing, in my opinion, is a good thing. You can't get better if you don't think you need to get better. If you think you know it all, there is no growth--and I think there is always room to grow. 

My only point was that talent may be wasted if people don't start writing. I started reading a girl's diary two and a half years ago. She just started it because it was the cool thing to do. Then she wrote a poem for the topic of the week and had such good response to it--she tried another and soon discovered that she loved writing poetry. And she's damn good at it too. 

I think our main disagreement has to do what we think a diary/journal should be. I view it as a place to record whatever you want, whether it is your thoughts and feelings or the days events. Basically whatever is important to you. I get the feeling that you feel it is a place to record "deep thoughts." And I don't think either is right or wrong...whatever works for you, you know? That's the wonderful thing about people--we're all different (yet the same, but that's a different subject)...and there's something out there for all of us. 

rainingvodka 
2002-02-16 01:34 
*grin* I've enjoyed the discussion myself...this is the kind of intercourse I had in mind when I restarted my journal on LJ. 

by "force feeding" I didn't mean actually *making* us read something...more along the lines of just creating something more to clutter the shelves of the library. In a way though...new writing means someone, somewhere WILL read it, good or bad, if any half assed attempt is made at distrobution, at the least am agent or publisher will. When it's on the internet, more and more people are bound to stumble across it by accident whilst looking for something else. 

I think lately, and espcially with my recent despair at the all too short life spans we have, I've gotten less and less tolerant of certain things. It just insults me, really, to think that there are people out there putting our information...things that HAVE true universal meaning, but will never reach the masses because it's buried underneath a pile of other peoples creations. 

But I agree with you on your last point, that we have different views on the purpose of online journals. I have always maintaned that, by putting it online, you are attempting to better the world around you somehow...force people to think, give advice, or just in general enlarge their experience. I have trouble with people that think they should share their day to day experiences with the world, just for the heck of it, w/o ever trying to enrich society, etc...those are the journals I find cluttering. When I found myself writing a journal that conformed itself to that pattern...I stopped writing online, because those are the journals I wish would stay offline. The internet is a living breathing thing and it frustrates me to no end to see broken links in the chain. As the internet is a living entity, so are the journals I read...and that is the very reason I like reading online journals...they embody everything that the internet promises. 

And just to address it, I have no issues with your outlook on notes and positive reinforcement...how else can you tell if you, in my way of looking at it, "should" be online? I am not trying to say you shouldn't even TRY to write a journal...Hell *everyone* should TRY to write...but just know when/if to stop. If you don't like doing it...at least have the courtesy to delete the damn thing. 

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