Common sense points of guru-tattva 

- An unbiased report -

This is objective research. Since so often explanations of these points are usually tailor made to fit the ideology or agenda of a particular group, this research steers away from such subjective prejudice. We are trying to present the facts as they are, and draw unbiased conclusions.  We invite readers to scrutinize our facts and thread of logic and point out any mistakes or omissions, any subjective prejudice, etc.

All of Srila Prabhupada's teachings and orders follow a logical continuum. His plans and orders had a logical order of context, they followed proper syntax, they followed a continuum of logical progression. He always expressed his plans in a perfect logical train of thought. So, our premise is that we can arrange all the points below in a continuum of logical thought, which will reveal Srila Prabhupada's desires on this subject.

Srila Prabhupada never introduced some major new plan or idea, without some kind of backup explanation. He never dropped some amazing new concept out of the sky and expected us to understand it without backup details. He always explained difficult subjects over and over again, so that we would understand. 

 Unbiased report:

This is an unbiased objective research into the guru-tattva positions, of what Srila Prabhupada wanted and ordered his society to do, in regards to the system of initiations for the future of Iskcon. To prove this is unbiased, I will show the objective evidence for both positions.

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Path #1 - regular gurus. 

1. Srila Prabhupada's Aspiration -  We have prior 1977 quotes that indicate that Srila Prabhupada wanted gurus, mostly siksa gurus, and some hints of initiation, but no orders for anyone to initiate, either during or after his physical presence on the planet. He aspired for disciples to become guru; this is not the same thing as ordering diksa gurus however. He did speak of "regular gurus" on 5/28/77. Ref #2

2. Incomplete training- We see the quote by Srila Prabhupada that his men are still incomplete in training for being regular guru, one month prior to the 5/28 conversation.  Ref #1 However, since Srila Prabhupada mentioned that  the “training was incomplete” – such a statement in itself indicates that Srila Prabhupada did have a training program to make such regular gurus, and he was anticipant of the “completion of training” and for some of his men to eventually become regular gurus. He did say that he would name them ‘acharyas’ when the training was complete.

3. Prior talks on ritvik – We know there were talks on the subject of ‘ritvik’ prior the the 5/28 conversation. They mentioned such talks, but they have not divulged the contents of these talks, only alluding to these talks. TKG mentioned "is this ritvik?" on 5/28 Ref#2 which shows the knowledge of prior talks of ritviks. This shows that again, the “training was incomplete” and Srila Prabhupada still held this opportunity as open, but he was discussing other plans, like the ritvik plan.

4. Confusion – Then there was clear confusion as to the plan for the future of initiations, they were not convinced that Srila Prabhupada ordained them as regular gurus, and the question came.

5.   5/28 question and answer – They asked Srila Prabhupada about the process of initiations, "after he is no longer with us" Ref #2  and the immediate answer was that Srila Prabhupada was soon to draw a list of names of “officiating acharyas” and this was the same as ‘ritvik.’ Then later in the conversation, Srila Prabhupada mentioned that “when I order” and “on my order” there will be grand-disciple and regular gurus.

6.  "On my order, when I order" regular gurus – This is a definite indication that Srila Prabhupada could order regular gurus, but this is all dependant on such candidates becoming qualified, the training complete, and Srila Prabhupada ordering them to do so. This is an indefinite proposition. Just like if I say, “When I go to med school, I’ll become a doctor and become very wealthy.” This is an indefinite proposition. I cannot claim that I am already wealthy and a doctor. This is dependant on concomitant factors, all of which have indefinite chances of happening. Will I be able to afford med school? Can I make the grades? There are so many factors. First the training, the qualifications must be there [see Ref#5c] and [Ref#7], then the order. 

7. Backup details and explanation – Unfortunately, we find no follow-up discussion or documents from Srila Prabhupada that he “ordered regular gurus.” BUT, this does not mean that Srila Prabhupada cannot order some  candidate that has completed the training. We see from Srila Prabhupada’s examples with his own Guru-maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, that Srila Prabhupada’s guru was “always in his presence” and that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta ordered Srila Prabhupada in dream to go and take sanyasa. We don’t see the formal document showing that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta ordered Srila Prabhupada to be a diksa guru, but we know that he did. On this note, we have the claim that Srila Prabhupada -made the 11 gurus before his departure, but there are several reasons to question this claim. First of all, 7 falldowns, which discredits the claim. And secondly, TKG made a confession in Topanga Canyon that Srila Prabhupada never ordered them to be gurus, only ritviks. See ref #7 on this. That pretty well cements it for many devotees. All this does not mean that never can there be a disciple, from 5/28/77, who cannot complete training and be ordered to be guru, it is up to Krsna and Srila Prabhupada and the disciple.

8.  Training complete - or qualified - To complete the training - means to be qualified. So, the qualifications to be diksa guru are covered in following points- 

9.  A disciple must obey his guru, before he can be guru. See ref#5a. Without obedience, no advancement is possible, especially advancement in chanting. Disobedience is the first offence to the holy name. The diksa guru is giving the pure holy name to the disciple, and therefore his chanting must be advanced. If a guru candidate fights against the plan of Srila Prabhupada for ritvik representation, tooth and nail, as outlined in path #2, below, and is disrespectful and belligerent to other disciples of Srila Prabhupada for their straight-forward obedience to this plan, then he is not deemed as obedient to his guru, and not qualified to be guru.

10.   A disciple waits to be ordered by his guru. He becomes diksa guru only on the order of his guru, and he is not anxious to become guru before being qualified and ordered.  See ref #5b.

11.  The disciple who is ordered by Srila Prabhupada and empowered by Sri Krsna is known to all others, by his self effulgent, and does not advertise or show ambition to be diksa guru, he becomes guru by advancement, by qualification, and by the order of guru only. A disciple is patient to complete the training, be qualified [Ref#5c], then be ordered by Srila Prabhupada, not by 2/3's vote.

summary-

Path #1 Srila Prabhupada’s desire for gurus, both siksa and regular diksa gurus, after his departure. >>>> Srila Prabhupada’s aspiration >> incomplete training >> prior talks on ritvik >> confusion >> 5/28 question and answer >> "on my order, when I order" regular gurus >> backup explanations and evidence >> training complete >> qualified >> ordered >> regular guru >> both paths not mutually exclusive >> end of story.

 

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Path #2 of Srila Prabhupada’s plan for representation, when he was present and after departure. 

1.  Srila Prabhupada's Aspiration -  We have prior 1977 quotes that indicate that Srila Prabhupada wanted gurus, mostly siksa gurus, and some hints of initiation, but no orders for anyone to initiate, either during or after his physical presence on the planet. He aspired for disciples to become guru; this is not the same thing as ordering diksa gurus however.

2. Incomplete training – Srila Prabhupada said on 4/2277, that the training was incomplete for his men, meaning they were still not trained sufficiently for being regular gurus. Note that this is only one month before the alleged appointment tape of 5/28.  See ref #1.

3. Prior ritvik talks - We know Srila Prabhupada had ritvik talks with his men before 5/28. But they have not divulged the contents of these talks. Some have alluded to such talks. Also TKG said the word "ritvik" on 5/28, indicating some knowledge of ritviks, due to Srila Prabhupada talking about ritviks earlier.

4. Confusion - The GBC men, the leaders were confused as to Srila Prabhupada's plans for future initiations, hence the question that follows.

5. 5/28/77 The best source of knowledge is to directly ask a question to the spiritual master, and his answer is the best authority. - Satsvarupa Gosvami asked the famous question to Srila Prabhupada, or what he [Srila Prabhupada] wanted for initiations after his departure. See ref #2

6. After "settled up" – Srila Prabhupada said "after this is settled up" meaning that he had some definite plans in progress, and he was discussing this plan with his men, and coming to the point of implementation.

7. Immediate answer 5/28 – Srila Prabhupada said he would [after it's settled up] be recommending some "officiating acharyas". In other words, Srila Prabhupada is saying that he will soon draw up a list of names of his preferred men for the position of “officiating acharyas”. This answer is in the context of the question, or- "after you are no longer with us." Therefore being in the same context, this answer indicates Srila Prabhupada's future plan for initiations, after departure. ref #2  

8. “Officiating acharyas” equal to ritviks – Srila Prabhupada indicated that "ritviks" are the same as "officiating acharyas - TKG said, "Is that ritvik?" Srila Prabhupada said "Ritvik, yes." This means that "ritvik" is a synonym for "officiating acaryas." There are a few more points on this, but to avoid a lengthy report, we’ll forgo that unless asked for.

9. The 7/9 letter is the outcome of 5/28 – The 7/9 letter is the conclusive implementation of Srila Prabhupada’s immediate answer; “I shall recommend some “officiating acharyas.” The letter is the obvious outcome of the 5/28 answer. Srila Prabhupada said he would make a list of names for “officiating acharyas,” and this is what the letter does. The letter is in context and continuum with the immediate answer of 5/28. Same context means same continuum of context with the question, or “when you are no longer with us.” See Ref #3  Also, the letter of 7/9 proves that it is the result of the 5/28 answer, wherein it says in the very beginning, "Recently when all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrndavana, Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as "ritvik-representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation." Ref #3  

10.  One week later after the 5/28 conversation, Srila Prabhupada's also states his plan to initiate his diksa disciples for as long as ISKCON exists, as stated in his June 4 1977 Declaration of Will, as follows: "The executive directors who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is MY INITIATED DISCIPLE following strictly all the rules and regulations of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness as detailed in my books..."

11. Backup explanations – There is a postulation that “officiating acharyas” are to have their own disciples [surmised from the rest of 5/28 conversation}. This is an amazing concept, never hear of before, and which would require lengthy explanation from Srila Prabhupada, but this letter is the only possible explanation of his entire answer of 5/28, and the letter is the only possible outcome of Srila Prabhupada's assertion that he would pick some "officiating acharyas," and the letter fully explains that ritviks, or “officiating acharyas,” are representatives of Srila Prabhupada, and new initiates are HIS disciples. The above postulation is not in context and continuum with the letter and answer, rather the opposite is explained. So, we have the backup explanation by Srila Prabhupada in this 7/9 letter, for his answer of 5/28. There could be more said on this. See Ref #3.

12. Witnesses – Here’s reliable witnesses.  See ref #4. HH BV Puri Maharaja is a well respected vaisnava. Here Srila Prabhupada had a perfect opportunity to correct HH BV Puri Maharaja and say, “No, I did not order ritviks, rather I ordered regular gurus.” But Srila Prabhupada agreed with HH BV Puri Maharaja. The next witness is also a well respected vaisnava. Also we have confessions of some of the 11 gurus.  

13. Other evidence- Srila Prabhupada wrote a letter to Hamsdutta 3 days after the 7/9 letter, saying "continue to be ritvik." He also said on another occation, there will be "more ritviks added in the future." Srila Prabhupada knew he was departing, and a temporary ritvik system had no need of "more ritviks in the future." Only a continuing ritvik system would need more ritviks in the future.  [still looking for these references, but know they exist.]

14. Confirmation by Vedic authorities Ref#6   

15. Conclusion – Here we have many points which are in context and continuum, which show that Srila Prabhupada ordered a system of representatives, as explained in letter, ref #3. Also path #1 shows evidence for the possibility of regular gurus.

summary-

Path #2 of Srila Prabhupada’s plan for representation, when he was present and after departure  >>>>  Srila Prabhupada’s Aspiration >> incomplete training >> prior ritvik talks >> confusion >> 5/28 question >> after "settled up" >> immediate answer 5/28 >> “officiating acharyas” equal to ritviks >> 7/9 letter outcome of 5/28 >> backup explanations >> witnesses >> misc evidence >> confirmation by vedic authorities >>  conclusion.