 Ramsey Clark at the 2001 anniversary. From Sharlene's 2001 page. |
Doyle: We're going to have a few words now from, Ramsey Clark. Uh- Ramsey Clark, was the former Attorney General- of this country- many years ago. He's also, the one that represented most of the surviving Branch Davidians, that was involved in the civil case that we mentioned earlier. Unfortunately, he wasn't, the lead counsel- and was not permitted to present, all of the facts that, we had available at the time. But, uh- we've asked him to say a few words at this point; perhaps bring us up to date as to where we are in the, uh [applause], appeals and so forth. [loud applause]
|
Thank you, Clive.
(clears throat) We who are here are the, fortunate few- priveleged, to be on this hallowed ground. On this eighth anniversary. That privelege, creates promises. And we have, promises to keep. And miles to go, before we sleep. To me, the most important promise- is to assure with all of our might- that there is on this site- a living church. A living church! Full of people, who love, and care, and serve. As God gives them the light, to see their duty. No other memorial, will be adequate. I have to report on a few things that are- more mechanical- and I want to begin with that theme, though, that- a living church, is essential. And any other outcome means, that the violence of the government- prevailed. That's the fact.
We can overcome. This time last week I was, in Rwanda. The year after, and in the same month- and even, on the same day but, earlier and later as well- there were mass killings across, Rwanda. Those who seek to demonize claim there were a million deaths out of six million population. They've toned that down now to about 500,000- there were almost surely- a hundred thousand. They were caused by government. We're told they were caused by ethnic hatred. Huh! Savages- Hutus and Tutsis- they always hated each other and killed each other every time they got a chance. But let me tell you, all those guns were manufactured in Europe and in the United States. Huh! And they were provided by our money as taxpayers. And they attacked the churches! The churches in Rwanda, which is called, um- the Land of a Thousand Hills- Mille Colines- were all built on high churches. There's a Catholic church, in Kibui commune, overlooking Lake Kivu, which is, about 5,000 feet above sea level- fabulously beautiful country- it's a Catholic church where they claimed, 11,400 people were killed. Who'd sought sanctuary there- on the 17th of April. 1994. I went there for, of all churches, the Seventh-day Adventist church. [M: "What?"] The Seventh-day Adventist church was the second-largest Christian church, in Rwanda. It had about 300,000, members. It hasn't been able to count its casualties yet, but it's pretty confident that it lost 10,000 members and believes perhaps 20,000. It's quite confident that it lost, more than half of its 60 pastors. It's interesting to note that, of the surviving pastors, most are in prison. It reminds me of Kent State, where you kill a few students and then you put the student leaders in prison. It's called complete, control. It's what was attempted, here, of course. Has been accomplished, by the government, to a considerable degree.
The churches, a week ago Saturday, in the western province of Kibui, were full of people. Absolutely brimming full. I went to three Seventh-day Adventist churches that day. One in a little town called Ushita. Within, several hundred yards, of a prison. Smaller than this church, this chapel area. Where 266, young men, had been in prison since 1994- sharing about 15 square feet, of floor space, each. With one inadequate meal a day. There're a hundred and thirty thousand, prisoners- from the, struggles of, the spring of 1994. They're dying at the rate of, three or four a day. Very few have been charged; altogether about 3,000 have formal charges. At first they started charging people and executing them- leaders, including church leaders, the archbishop was assassinated. But the churches were full. There were crowds outside. They were singing, to the rafters; sometimes, the corrugated, sheets that were the roofs that they use over there still weren't up yet, but the rafters were still there. The little church at Marambi had no roof at all. The church in Ushita commune itself- I'm sorry, in, in Kibui commune itself- was overflowing. And when we left- they'd been singing all day, because we drove- many miles. There are no roads, you have to- everybody walks to church, there are no cars, everybody walks to church, they bring their lunches and they bring food for, other people- I asked them why they were, all singing and no sermons, and- One person answered, it's probably because we haven't figured it all out yet- we have faith in the Lord, and we know the songs, and we just sing our hearts out. Until we find our way.
That, is how, you can prevail, despite the most enormous tragedies. The president of the Rwanda Union, lost his wife, five children, and nine grandchildren. The president of the west Rwanda, discipline- the designation is the church, the Seventh-day Adventist church gives it- mission, which is western Rwanda, where my concerns, uh, have been- my primary concerns as a lawyer- had left, Luganaro, which is, this fabulous complex that the Seventh-day Adventists had built. It had probably the best hospital, in Rwanda. It had a nursing school, 400 students, and it was turning out, nurses for the whole country. Um- the slaughter there was, stunning. People had come to the church, and come to the hospital- there was a church and two chapels- a large chapel, as large as this one, for the nursing school alone, and a chapel for the hospital staff, and then a huge church up on, the high hill. And several thousand people perhaps died there, we don't really know. But the president, of that mission, had left for Kigali, the capital, on the 4th of April, the violence started on the 6th of April- he didn't come back to Luganaro for two and a half years- to find that his mother, his father, his wife, and all of his children, had been killed. And yet they, are overcoming. In dire poverty- per capita income, a hundred and forty dollars a year, for the whole country. Most, way below that.
|
The only, proper memorial for, Oklahoma City- is a government, that is decent, and honest, and honorable, and determined, to serve its people. [M: "Amen!" M: "Amen!" loud applause]
Executions on closed-circuit TV just won't do it! [F: "??"] And I hope that none of our hearts, have been so damaged- we're all prejudiced, just on different subjects, and capital punishment has been a lifelong prejudice of mine. I said when I was attorney general it has to be abolished. And we haven't had a federal execution since. But May 16th, we're about to have one it appears. How ironic, that after all those years, the first person to be executed, by the federal government, would be Timothy McVeigh. I hope we can find it in our hearts to pray for Timothy McVeigh. What happened here is not unassociated with his life, as we well know. If he talked- insensitively- about "collateral damage"- a phrase I've always hated; I don't want to hate things because as Doctor King said, that hatred will corrupt your own soul- but the phrase, "collateral damage," which means, these poor civilians, or these poor children, got killed collaterally, that's all- I mean, they're just collateral damage- he didn't invent that phrase, he was taught that phrase; it was drummed into him when he wanted to be, a Beret, you know? And it meant it doesn't matter! You kill if you have to kill, and anybody that gets in the way, it's just too bad. [F: "He wasn't ??."] And so we think we can solve problems by, killing him and, watching it on closed-circuit TV? We have to carry on for those, who died, that they not, have died in vain. And that means here a living, vital church; it means for the United States a decent, honorable, honest government determined to serve the needs of its people and hurt no one! [loud applause]
A living church means that we have to, in my view, pursue the appeal in the federal court, um- with all the power that we can muster. It's not- for money. There are no more selfless, people in America, huh! There are no people less materialistic in America- than the people who died on this site eight years ago, and their families. They weren't driving around in Cadillacs! They weren't trading in NASDAQ stocks. They were on this site, praying to their Lord! Huh! Trying to raise children, in truth and beauty. They wanted nothing except, the right to be free to do that. We need to believe in that, as a higher value, than the corrupting materialism, that dominates, the moral values of our society. And its glorification, of violence. And to do that, we have to show, that the government, is responsible, for the deaths, that occured here. [M: "That's right." applause] And there has to be accountability!
I think the work that we see in this TV show is very important. Um, it's a means, to the truth, which is simply, facts linked together. But I would caution us against- ah, relying too much on an intense, investigation of the obscure- huh- and overlooking the obvious. You know? Ah, you can try to prove and try to prove as long as you want to, who shot first or who struck John or, whether Abel just died or Cain killed him and all the rest- you can argue about, whether the FBI shot on the 19th, or whether the FLIR tape proves they did, and all the rest- But, those are details. The obvious, irrefutable, fact is, that folks have lived and prayed on this site for a couple of generations, huh! They hadn't hurt anybody! They hadn't done anything, wrong, that was, more significant than, the population generally. In fact, it would be less significant than the population generally.
And they were subjected to a surprise, brutal, incredible, paramilitary assault! Huh! First by the I- ATF. How could that happen, in a society that claims it's free? And then 51 days of torment, using every, scientific, psychological technique of, trying to drive people to stress and despair that was conceivable- And then battering the church down, battering a church down with 50-ton tanks! Huh! For hours. Flooding it with gas. Time and time again! God help us if we'll stand for that! [murmuring M: "Amen!"] And then claiming somebody else lit the match and, we're clean. Anyone who knows the background facts knows beyond doubt that the United States government's conduct was absolutely criminal and unforgivable! [M: "That's right!"] And has to be accounted for! [loud applause]
You can't act that way toward a den of criminals, much less a church full of children, and people devoted to their Lord! And if we want to overcome, we have to bring out the facts in the system itself. And make it face, it's own truth. There's another legal problem that, concerns me greatly. The assaults on this church are not over. There is an effort to take this property away from its people! Its a serious effort! It's not well known. There was a trial here last fall. In which a jury, from this county, held that none of the, elected officials of this church represented the church. Or any other claimants represented the church. That none of them have a claim to this property! And there're now cases pending- that are determined- and there are very powerful interests in this society and this community that want to take this land away! Because when the land is gone, huh- the memory will fade! Because this is where, it happened. And it is essential that, people who care, organize, a defense committee- you can't depend on Clive Doyle alone. I think like Galahad he, has the strength of ten because he's pure in heart. [M: "Clive?"] But that's not enough. Huh! [end of first tape; comments on those who want to turn the property into a Disneyland, hearing coming up on Friday] -we could accomplish exactly that. We don't think it'll go forward, but it shows how close the threat is. So we have to- unite. [M: "Yes."] And resist. And we can prevail.
We ought to, as we look to the future, remember how, good this church was. Is, small as it is now. And can be again. I've been in churches all over the country. For many years. And, during the civil rights years, I was in more churches than you can imagine! Because that's where the action was! This is the most integrated church I ever saw in the United States of America. By far. Been at churches at the UN, at a little chapel, at the World Church Building, this is all up in New York- because of the UN being there- no integration to compare with this! All the races were in this church. Most of the continents- all the continents, except Antarctica. Were in this church. This little church here! Right here! They lived with respect and love. They read the Bible- many hours a day. With an openmindedness and an inquiring, desire. To know the fundamental truths, of life. That you rarely see. They weren't looking for riches. They lived very, very modestly. Not- not Rwanda modestly, but- they had no- flush toilets, huh, in the building! It was hard to get a bath. But they loved it. And they loved each other. And they had the more important values. They can teach an entire world that seems determined, huh, to end in violence, huh- how to save itself.
We permit this demonization, which may be, the most dangerous weapon that exists- to tell us that Rwandans are nothing but savages. Never turn your back, on an African because they'll slit your throat. And the Davidians, were crazy, maniacal, huh, sex fiends. The truth, will out. And this church, must live, and prevail. Thank you. [loud, extended applause]
Next Speaker: David Thibodeau
Back to Home Page
version:7/23/01
