home/logo

O U T f l a m e !

(Mailbox, and our Philosophy)


They say no one forgets their first flame...

We received this mail after announcing our existence on the rec.backcountry newsgroup.

Subject: outdoor website
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997
From: Galia Berry
Organization: Dataform Corp
To: motsser@geocities.com

Saw your url in rec.backcountry. Sorry, but I think it's silly. When we go camping, I just don't spend my camping trip thinking about who's gay and who's not... I'm too busy hiking, climbing, relaxing, taking photos, or whatever. Gee! Wouldn't it be just AMAZING if gays ALSO went hiking, climbing, relaxing, taking photos, etc.? What does sexual preference have to do with enjoying the outdoors? As long as my fellow hikers/campers clean up after themselves and aren't too noisy during quiet hours, I don't care WHO shares my campground. Nor should you, or any of your fellow gay campers. Geez. I've heard of "ethnocentric", but this beats all!




How we responded (our philosophy):

Dear Ms. Berry,

We've heard of "heterocentric," but geez.... Hehe, just kidding! We wondered at first if you were kidding too, especially after we found your name is an anagram for "real gay rib" (not to mention "gay bar rile and , "big lay rare"). But seriously, we are relieved to learn you don't waste your camping trip worrying about who is gay or not!

Anyway, congratulations. As our first flamer (-er- of a kind), you also become our first rebuttee.

Although you no doubt dashed your e-mail off to us in a spur-of-the-moment, didn't-bother-to-visit-the-site, sick-of-special-interest-groups, overly-sensitive-to-political-correctness way, we think we get your point, but do you get ours?

1) This is just a website. We -- my friends and I -- happen to be men who love the outdoors. Though trying to avoid the "this is me, this is my dog, this is my list of pet peeves" approach, our site is essentially personal. We certainly are not spamming, as another reader of the rec.backcountry newsgroup suggested. The idea that we might someday be marketable is flattering but somewhat grandiose and is not our goal.

2) In response to your questions: No, it wouldn't be particularly AMAZING to find gays doing the things you mentioned, and sexual preference has nothing to do with OUR enjoying the outdoors. We like to hike and backpack and relax and sometimes take photos, too. We are, in fact, quite comfortable on the trail and practice low impact camping and all that other commendable stuff. Frankly, we don't quite understand your beef with our particular site.

"What does sexual preference have to do with enjoying the outdoors?" Nothing; it's a ridiculous question. So why have "special interest" outdoors sites or organizations? Why not ask "What does sexual preference have to do with enjoying alcohol?" Nothing. So why have gay bars? Or a better analogy would be to ask "What does being a woman (for example) have to do with enjoying the outdoors?" Nothing. So why are there hiking clubs for women? Or why have campgrounds for families with children? Or ski weekends for Christian singles? The point is not only appreciation of nature, the point is appreciation of nature in combination with fellowship.

3) Personally, we prefer the backcountry to campgrounds, which are often noisy and filled with people who bring pets and radios and cellphones (not to mention laptops). But those gay people who prefer public campgrounds (or cruise ships, or B&Bs) may not want to vacation where they will feel awkward holding hands with their lovers, or risk simply being identified as gay. We've worked in campgrounds and national parks, and have heard our fellow employees grumble about "fags" in a certain tent, and heard the giggling and disgust engendered when some "dykes" rent a cabin. So while well-adjusted folks like *you* may not worry about who your camping neighbors are, some people do. It's true.

4) Whether you deem it necessary or not, there are a growing number of outdoors organizations geared towards gay people. These are sometimes social in nature (as similar non-gay groups may be) and tend to promote good mental and physical health as well as an appreciation of the natural world. We think these are worthy organizations, and hope it is useful to someone to find them listed here (see our OUTlinks page).

5) Finally, our motto (well, for today anyway) is "Out of the bars, into the woods." It is, by the way, a play on "out of the bars, into the streets," a phrase reportedly chanted on the nights of the Stonewall riots (click here to read about Stonewall).

Some of us do not learn until late in life the glories of hiking through a pine forest, or pitching a tent on the edge of a canyon, or overcoming our fears and taking that leap of faith that our climbing buddy won't let go of the rope. Many people, many gay people for sure, are bound like slaves to their couches and barstools and even their *computers,* and don't know that these worlds -- worlds of rock climbing and backpacking and mountain biking -- are within their reach. We hope with a little encouragement, maybe by seeing photos of other gay people stretching their own boundaries and having a good time, some folks who might not otherwise do so will get off their asses and take a hike. So much the better if we can encourage them in a non-gym-class way, i.e., with a little humor, and perhaps even a hint of sex (I just love pictures of shirtless men in the wilderness, I don't know, maybe I'm queer).

Larry (Motsser)
motsser@yahoo.com

PS: We agree with you about noise and about cleaning up after yourself.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


"Screw philosophy" (our alternate response):
Subject: Re: outdoor website
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997
To: Galia Berry
From: motsser@geocities.com

Sorry, but we've been to your site, and we think you're silly.

Signed,
motsser@yahoo.com

bullet hole P.S. Please don't shoot us.




Take Me Home


This page hosted by
Get your own Free Home Page