AS ALWAYS, IF YOU SEE PEOPLE HERE YOU HAVE MORE INFO. ON, PLEASE PROVIDE IT TO ME SO I CAN POST IT FOR THE BENEFIT OF OTHER LINDSAY RESEARCHERS.
LINDSAY/GWYNNE/DUNCAN/PAYNE Family Information, by myself (Laurentia@aol.com) and J.A. (billjen@mail.ocis.net), 1998. [contact me (Laurentia@aol.com) for more complete citation].
Last updated: M 3/9/98
Data gathered by myself (Laurentia@aol.com) 1997-1998:
William G. LINDSAY, b. 1866; d. 9/2/1941, probably Dundee (Inscription, Balgay Cemetery, Dundee).
Married Margaret PAYNE (b. 7/31/1859, Dundee; d. 9/3/1941, Dundee) in 1889, Dundee (Inscription, Balgay Cemetery, Dundee).
Their son was William LINDSAY, b. 1902; d. 1/21/1963, prob. Dundee (Inscription, Balgay Cemetery, Dundee).
"LINDSAY, William... First District Dundee 1050" (CRI-B 1866).
"LINDSAY, William... First District Dundee 1333" (CRI-B 1866).
"LINDSAY, William... First District Dundee 1428" (CRI-B 1866).
"LINDSAY, William Grimes... Second District Dundee 827" (CRI-B 1866). [Parish No. 282/2].
"LINDSAY, William/M/Birth/1 Jan 1865/Dundee, Angus, Scotland/Father: William LINDSAY/Mother: Isabella MILL" (IGI).
"LINDSAY, William Curr/M/Birth/25 Nov 1865/Dundee, Angus, Scotland/Father: John LINDSAY/Mother: Betty CURR" (IGI).
"LINDSAY, William Grimes/M/Birth/27 May 1866/Dundee, Angus, Scotland/Father: Thomas LINDSAY/Mother: Sarah GUIN" (IGI).
"LINDSAY, William/M/Birth/12 Jun 1866/Dundee, Angus, Scotland/Father: John LINDSAY/Mother: Catherine PHILP" (IGI).
"LINDSAY, William/M/Birth/5 Aug 1866/Dundee, Angus, Scotland/Father: James LINDSAY/Mother: Mary Ann SMITH" (IGI).
"LINDSAY, William/M/Birth/19 Aug 1866/Dundee, Angus, Scotland/Father: William LINDSAY/Mother: Elizabeth LEITH" (IGI).
"LINDSAY, William/M/Birth/24 Aug 1867/Dundee, Angus, Scotland/Father: John LINDSAY/Mother: Elizabeth MC INTOSH" (IGI).
LDS Ancestral File 0 for WLs in Dundee.
Scottish Church Records CD 0 for WLs in Dundee.
The Dundee Directory 1876-77
-------------------------------------------
Glaziers
Lindsay & Scott, 47 Overgate
Grocers
Lindsay, William, 55 Albert street
Lindsay, Miss, 19 Harriet street
Grocers (Wholesale) and Provision Merchants.
Lindsay & Low, East Dock street and Allan street
"LINDSAY/William/16/M/GSon/U/Dundee/Jute Mill Oil+/BURNETT, Margaret/FOR/Dundee/282-2/8/5/0203481" (1881 Census, Surname Index, LDS microfiche version).
"LINDSAY/William/15/M/Son/U/Liff & Benvie/Scholar/LINDSAY, William/WIG/Wigtown/282-2/25A/1/0203482" (1881 Census, Surname Index, LDS microfiche version).
"LINDSAY/William/15/M/Son/U/Dundee/Jute Factory +/LINDSAY, John/KRK/Orr/282-3/22/14/0203484" (1881 Census, Surname Index, LDS microfiche version).
"LINDSAY/William/14/M/Son/U/Dundee/Factory Worker/LINDSAY, John/FOR/Dundee/282-4/31/3/0203488" (1881 Census, Surname Index, LDS microfiche version).
"LINDSAY/William/14/M/Son/-/Liff & Benvie/Baker/NAME OF HEAD: LINDSAY, Sarah/FOR/Dundee/282-1/9/10/0203479" (1881 Census, Surname Index, LDS microfiche version).
"LINDSAY/William/14/M/Son/U/Liff & Benvie/Millworker/LINDSAY, Mary Ann/FOR/Dundee/282-2/22A/46/0203482" (1881 Census, Surname Index, LDS microfiche version).
The Dundee Directory 1882-83
-----------------------------
Glaziers
Lindsay & Scott, 42 and 44 Barrack st.
Grocers
Lindsay, Miss, 17 Harriet street
Marriages-- WGL
-------------------------
1886, 1887, 1888 No WLs in Dundee.
"LINDSAY, William... St Peter Dundee 173" (CRI-M 1889).
+ "PAYNE, Margaret... St Peter Dundee 173" (CRI-M 1889). (CJ's GGGAunt).
"LINDSAY, William... Lochee Dundee 106" (CRI-M 1890).
"LINDSAY, William... St Mary Dundee 156" (CRI-M 1891).
"LINDSAY, William... Lochee Dundee 73" (CRI-M 1892).
"LINDSAY, William Pirie... St Peter Dundee 103" (CRI-M 1893).
"LINDSAY, William... St Andrew Dundee 184" (CRI-M 1894).
"LINDSAY, William... St Mary Dundee 172" (CRI-M 1895).
"LINDSAY, William... St Peter Dundee 5" (CRI-M 1896).
"LINDSAY, William Fraser... St Mary Dundee 49" (CRI-M 1896).
1897, 1898 No WLs in Dundee.
"LINDSAY, William L. ... St Clement Dundee 226" (CRI-M 1899).
"LINDSAY, William... St Mary Dundee 176" (CRI-M 1900).
"LINDSAY, William H. ... St Mary Dundee 276" (CRI-M 1901).
"LINDSAY, William... St Andrew Dundee 198" (CRI-M 1901).
"LINDSAY, William... St Clement Dundee 71" (CRI-M 1902).
1881 Census
-------------------
Liff & Benvie/St Mark/Dundee/15 Shepherd's Loan/Allison P.(?) Lindsay/Head/W/74 (?)/Dress Maker/Ireland
James Mudie (?)/Grandson/14/Scholar/Forfar Dundee
Peter Mudie (?)/Grandson/11/Scholar/Forfar Dundee
1891 Census (partial info.):
--------------------------------------
Liff & Benvie/St Marks/Dundee/3 Pennycook (?) Lane/Alexander Lindsay/Boarder/Widower/56 (?)/Bleacher/Employed X/WHERE BORN. Forfarshire Dundee (1891 Census) [b. ca. 1835]
E.D. #15, p. 4
Alexander Lindsay 50
E.D.#17, p. 12
Jessie Lindsay 41
E.D. #19, p. 2
Francis E. Lindsay 29/Martha 22
George Duncan 46/Catherine Wife 27/George 5/Francis Moir 3
p. 15:
Civil Parish: Liff & Benvie/Parish of St Mark/Dundee/290 Perth Rd/
Sarah Lindsay/Head/Widow/57/Housekeeper/Ireland/Room with One or more Windows.: 2
James Lindsay/Son/Married/37/Baker/Employed/Dundee Forfarsh.
Margaret Lindsay/Daughter/2/Alva Stirlingsh.
Mary Lindsay/Daughter/1/Alva Stirlingsh.
Neighbors at same address: Frederick F.? & Ada Houston & Family
E.D. #20, p. 5:
James Duncan 19
Mary Duncan 2
p. 6:
Thomas Duncan 71
John Duncan 38/Elizabeth 34...
Richard Lindsay 38/Margaret 35/Sarah 11/Elizabeth 9/Thomas 7/Richard 5/Jean 2
p. 11:
Civil Parish: Liff & Benvie/Parish of St Mark/Dundee/13 Shepherds Loan/
William Lindsay/Head/Mar/24/Jute Yarn Dresser/Employed/Forfarshire Dundee/Room with One or more Windows.: 2
Margaret Lindsay/Wife/Mar/30/Weaver Jute/Employed/Forfarshire Dundee
E.D. #22, p. 6:
Thomas Lindsay 50/Frances 40/Thomas 8
p. 10 Graham Lindsay 52/Jane 50/Isabella 6/George 4
LINDSAY references in CJ's partial Balgay Cemetery, Dundee database.
783. Robert FORD, warper, 6 Sep. 1882 a. 61. Wife, Janet BRUCE 28 June 1896 a. 76. Ch'n: Lindsay 29 Jan. 1872 a. 22: Peter 26 May 1875 a. 16: Margaret 20 Apr. 1880 a. 23: James d. in infancy, buried in Bankfoot Churchyard.
(Lindsay as a first name only).
------------------------------------------------------------------
William G. LINDSAY's son: William LINDSAY
"LINDSAY, William... St Clement Dundee 268" (CRI-B 1901). [Parish No. 282/3].
"LINDSAY, William Brown... St Peter Dundee 198" (CRI-B 1902). [Parish No. 282/1].
"LINDSAY, William Keillor... St Andrew Dundee 585" (CRI-B 1903). [Parish No. 282/4].
Are you interested in all the desendants of a common LINDSAY ancestor or are you just searching your direct line? What resources do you have available to you so that we can pin this guy down a little better? I am interested in the LINDSAY line after my WGL married into the PAYNE family.
I have a partial cemetery database of Balgay Cemetery. Send me a complete list of Dundee names you are searching, and I will search it for you.
You said you have WGL's birth certificate: can you please transcribe the info.? If our Williams are one and the same, do you have any further info. on him? I wonder if he was married before he married my GGG Aunt ca. 1900?
REIDs-- that is more possible, as I believe my REID came from Aberdeen:
Isabella Bruce PAYNE (1879, Dundee) married Andrew REID (ca. 1880) in 1913 in Dundee, and had: Isabella, Jemima, and Margaret REID, b. ca. 1915, prob. Dundee.
Do you have an Andrew REID, b. ca. 1880 in your data?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Data gathered by J.A. (billjen@mail.ocis.net):
1- William Lindsay & Mary Lindsay
2- Thomas Lindsay b. 1831/32 Armagh, Ireland, d. 18 Jan 1875, Dundee (New Register House, Edinburgh)
m. Sarah Gwynn (Gwyn, Gwynne, Guinn) b. 1832/33 Armagh, Ireland (parents Thomas Quinn & Mary Steensen Ireland), d. 27 Jan 1917, Dundee (New Register House, Edinburgh)
3- Richard Lindsay b. 1852/53 Dundee (William' eldest brother) I still can't find a birth for my Richard, they are not on the Scottish Parish Records so obviously were Catholic or of another religion.
m. Margaret Duncan 29 Dec 1876 Dundee (have their m/c) (JA's line)
4?- Joseph Lindsay of Dundee (JA's grandfather)
3- James Lindsay b. 1854/1855 Dundee m. Jane ? (on 1881 census)
3- Thomas Lindsay b. 29 Jul 1857 Dundee, d. 22 Aug 1857 Dundee (have the b/c & m/c)
3- Thomas Lindsay b. 20 Jul 1858 Dundee (have the b/c)
3- Mary Lindsay b. 1 Dec 1862 Dundee (have the b/c)
3- John Lindsay b. 26 Aug 1864 Dundee (have the b/c)
3- William Grimes Lindsay b. 27 May 1866 Dundee (have the b/c)
3- Robert Lindsay b. 28 Jul 1868 Dundee (have the b/c)
JA: You can find William G. on the I.G.I. at the FHC as well as other siblings after civil registration.
JA: I don't know anything about an Alexander LINDSAY, age 56(?) in Liff & Benvie in 1891--he is not in my listing.
CJ: Any date or places for William LINDSAY & Mary LINDSAY or previous generations?
JA: No
CJ: You have 1831/32 for Thomas LINDSAY. Which date is most prevalent?
JA: It depends whether his birthday was before or after the census age given.
CJ: Sarah Gwynn's name is variously Gwynn, Gwyn, Gwynne, Guinn, and Guin. Which form is on her birth certificate or record? If you have no birth record, which form is most prevalent?
JA: Gwynn(e). I use Gwynne.
CJ: You have 1832/33 for her birth-- mine works out to be 1834 for her birth from the 1891 Census. Which do you think is the most likely year?
JA: I figured my dates from an earlier census. Again, it depends on whether she had her birthday before or after the census was taken.
CJ:1852/53 for Richard LINDSAY-- which year do you prefer?
JA:Probably 1852 - figured from census.
CJ: Do you have any info. on Shepherd's Loan, the street in Dundee where our family lived?
JA: No. I did see it when I visited in 1995.
CJ: (I've visited there twice). It was a tenement house, which, not unexpectedly, is no longer there. But St. Peter's Church is still standing at the top of the street.
CJ: What religion are your people?
JA: I grew up Anglican because my Father was that. I think my Grandmother Lindsay and her folk went to the Church of Scotland - St. Mary's in Broughty Ferry (I was born in Dundee but lived in Barnhill about ten minutes from Dundee). I still have relatives in Dundee too, also in Aberdeen, Elgin, and down in England. I lived in Barnhill, (Dundee) till I was 8 then we emigrated to Canada. I joined the LDS Church in 1977. None of my other Lindsay's are Mormon. Except for a cousin of my mother's but that is on her mother's line.
CJ: Any connection to the HOUSTONs, the people who lived with your LINDSAYs?
JA: No, not yet.
CJ: Any details on William Grimes LINDSAY? Can you send me a copy of his birth certificate?
JA: No I have no details on William and yes I will send you a copy of his birth certificate asap. Also I will send copies of all other certificates that I have that would pertain to you and this family.
I have copies of the 1891 census but you can send me the ones you have just to make sure they are one and the same.
CJ: Are you doing just your direct line or all the descendants of a common ancestor?
JA: I am mainly doing my direct line. But if I do go off-track sometimes.
CJ: I can send you the family group sheet for William Grimes LINDSAY
JA: -- Okay!
CJ: We should keep in touch cus I have tons of stuff on Dundee-- your people were jute mill workers and came from Ireland like mine-- we might have an additional connection.
JA: Okay! You are the only person I have found that is researching the same family!!
JA: I will eventually send you a complete list of Dundee relatives for you to put through your Balgay Data Base!!! Thanks!!!
CJ: I am going to host the world-wide Dundee mailing list-- I have E-mail addys of about 100 Dundee researchers from all over the world. Still have lots of relatives there.
JA: Are you selling copies of this list? Only one or two of us are searching Dundee here in Kamloops but it still would be worthwhile having.
CJ: Is the wife of Thomas Quinn: Mary STEENSEN, born in Ireland; or Mary Steensen IRELAND?
JA: Sorry - forgot the comma. She is Mary Steensen and I got it from Sarah's death info.
Re: DAVIDSONs
JA: My Davidson's are all in Banff at the moment - through my Chisholm (Gmr) line - connected to Lawrence's, etc.
Re: REIDs
JA: I have a Reid in my 9th generation (Katharine Reid m. James Baxter. This is through my Bisset into Bain line. Aberdeen/Banff areas. I have no other information other than that. It was given to me by a relative in Scotland since deceased.
CJ: William G. LINDSAY, b. 1866; d. 9/2/1941, probably Dundee (Inscription, Balgay Cemetery, Dundee).
Married Margaret PAYNE (b. 7/31/1859, Dundee; d. 9/3/1941, prob. Dundee) in 1889, Dundee (Inscription, Balgay Cemetery, Dundee).
Their son was William LINDSAY, b. 1902; d. 1/21/1963, prob. Dundee (Inscription, Balgay Cemetery, Dundee).
JA: I cannot confirm above at this time but I will have someone in Scotland check the parentage for us then we'll know if this is the right William G.'s death.
CJ: OK if you want-- as I said about 2 E-mails ago, I was 85% sure that they were the same fellow, then when I found that he lived at the same address as my relatives, I was 98% sure-- when I don't have 100% concrete data, I go with the 'preponderance of evidence' method of research. There were 3 William LINDSAYs born in Dundee in the correct year, 1866, one of them William
Grimes, and the likelihood that either of the other two would live at the same address as my family would be really astronomical. At least one of Margaret's siblings married and lived next door or in the same tenement house as the patriarch of the family also.
JA:The following are what I have ascertained as being correct:
CJ: "LINDSAY, William Grimes/M/Birth/27 May 1866/Dundee, Angus, Scotland/Father: Thomas LINDSAY/Mother: Sarah GUIN" (IGI).
"LINDSAY/William/14/M/Son/-/Liff & Benvie/Baker/LINDSAY, Sarah/FOR/Dundee/282-
JA: I will send you the birth certificate asap.
CJ: OK great, I am just dotting my "i"'s-- I like to have as much on people I include in my database as possible.
JA: Marriages-- WGL I will accept your information that William G. married Margaret Payne.
CJ: Yes, it's not absolute, but it is 98%.
CJ: 1881 Census
JA: - I don't recognize this information at the moment.
CJ: -------------------
Liff & Benvie/St Mark/Dundee/15 Shepherd's Loan/Allison P.(?) Lindsay/Head/W/74 (?)/Dress Maker/Ireland
James Mudie (?)/Grandson/14/Scholar/Forfar Dundee
Peter Mudie (?)/Grandson/11/Scholar/Forfar Dundee
It's OK, I was just providing some info. on Dundee LINDSAYs I had ran across in case you wanted them.
CJ: 1891 Census (partial info.):
--------------------------------------
Liff & Benvie/St Marks/Dundee/3 Pennycook Lane/Alexander
Lindsay/Boarder/Widower/56 (?)/Bleacher/Employed X/WHERE BORN. Forfarshire Dundee (1891 Census) [b. ca. 1835]
JA: - don't know
CJ: E.D. #15, p. 4
Alexander Lindsay 50
JA: - don't know
CJ: E.D.#17, p. 12
Jessie Lindsay 41
JA: - don't know
CJ: E.D. #19, p. 2
Francis E. Lindsay 29/Martha 22
JA: - don't know
CJ: George Duncan 46/Catherine Wife 27/George 5/Francis Moir 3
p. 15:
Civil Parish: Liff & Benvie/Parish of St Mark/Dundee/290 Perth Rd/Sarah Lindsay/Head/Widow/57/Housekeeper/Ireland/Room with One or more Windows.: 2
James Lindsay/Son/Married/37/Baker/Employed/Dundee Forfarsh.
Margaret Lindsay/Daughter/2/Alva Stirlingsh.
Mary Lindsay/Daughter/1/Alva Stirlingsh.
Neighbors at same address: Frederick F.? & Ada Houston & Family
E.D. #20, p. 5:
James Duncan 19
Mary Duncan 2
p. 6:
Thomas Duncan 71
John Duncan 38/Elizabeth 34...
Richard Lindsay 38/Margaret 35/Sarah 11/Elizabeth 9/Thomas 7/Richard 5/Jean 2
JA: This is my line of Lindsay's.
CJ: Again, just providing info. I ran across as I was 'walking through the streets' in the microfilm-- your Sarah is above in E.D.#19. Had you found your people in the 1891 Census? I copied the pages for you as you had only mentioned the 1881 Census when we wrote before-- would you like a copy of the pages?
CJ: LINDSAY references in CJ's partial Balgay Cemetery, Dundee database.
783. Robert FORD, warper, 6 Sep. 1882 a. 61. Wife, Janet BRUCE 28 June 1896 a. 76. Ch'n: Lindsay 29 Jan. 1872 a. 22: Peter 26 May 1875 a. 16: Margaret 20 Apr. 1880 a. 23: James d. in infancy, buried in Bankfoot Churchyard.
JA: Sorry, I don't know most of the above.
CJ: (Lindsay as a first name only).
It's OK, you had asked me to check my cemetery database.
CJ: William G. LINDSAY's son: William LINDSAY
"LINDSAY, William... St Clement Dundee 268" (CRI-B 1901). [Parish No. 282/3].
"LINDSAY, William Brown... St Peter Dundee 198" (CRI-B 1902). [Parish No. 282/1].
"LINDSAY, William Keillor... St Andrew Dundee 585" (CRI-B 1903). [Parish No. 282/4].
JA: I will have the above checked out for parentage.
CJ: OK that would be nice-- I haven't been able to determine which one is the son of William and Margaret.
JA: At the time I found my information I didn't do much digging past my direct line.
CJ: Nice to finally connect with someone even tho we are only related by marriage!
The PAYNEs of Dromore and Dundee
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